San Francisco F13 Day Meetup - February 13th 2008

[Teleku]

Sure, I guess I'll show up after work.  Other than the money hat, how exactly are we finding each other?  Do I walk in and ask for Party of F13?

[Signe]

You should all carry red carnations.

[Samwise]

I'll be wearing my F13 shirt.

[Yoru]

Look for the obvious internet nerd group, as well as the moneyhat and F13 shirt. The T-bear is a fairly upscale location. We'll stand out like sore thumbs.

I'll also try to put a word in with the front desk, telling them to direct anyone looking for "F13" at me.

[Hoax]

I'll have a f13 shirt too, but it wont be as glaringly obvious as the one with green tie dye (how the fuck do you spell that), it will also be under a dress shirt, should get there around six.

[Teleku]

I'll be there 7ish.

[Yoru]

Six? I thought we were on for seven.

Whatever, I'll hop on a train in a bit and be there at or a little after six.

[Samwise]

I'm showing up 7ish.

[Hoax]

Six? I thought we were on for seven.

Whatever, I'll hop on a train in a bit and be there at or a little after six.

Oh well I can hang out until 7, I forgot what the first post said a long time ago.  Six was my straight from work time.  I might stop and grab some food, fucking starving. 

*really wishes he read the first post before he last posted, still hasn't read it as he types this*

[Yoru]

Okay, good, 7. I was quite literally just about to bolt for the door and sprint for the train. I'll be there at 7.

[Teleku]

Aaaaaaaand Fuck.  I've successfully been roped/guilt tripped into helping out with something tonight.  Not going to be able to make it. 

[Yoru]

Good fun was had by all. I just hope no one woke up today with a hangover.

[Samwise]

I live!

Where's Hoax?  I seem to remember him being the one with the camera.

[Hoax]

Yeah was very fun, fuck my phone camera, I do have a picture, at work currently, also I just looked at it and it makes me seem like the crazy guy and that hardly seems accurate or fair.  Secondly I feel that there is no way that only 1/4 phones had a camera, liars.  I'll upload/post this one tonight if somebody bugs me on Steam about it.

I did get a bit drunk, eating only a small Quiznos before I got there wasn't the best plan, should have eaten more of the very spicy but quite good potatoe thingies.  Ever notice how when your a bit outside your comfort area you become much more of a lightweight?  Or perhaps its the reverse, that when doing the same old same old you gain a cast iron liver?  I did devour some food once I got home before I passed out.  So I went to work an hour late, but not terribly worse for wear.  Great beer, good times looking forward to doing something around GDC time that doesn't involve $700 cover charges.

Thumbs down at all of you who were too pussy to come out.  While it was strange referring to a internet forum in casual conversation it was quite enjoyable hearing meatspace (I term I adore) in that same conversation like three times and meeting some cool guys and having some good beers.

tl;dr:

4 x  's + 

People who wimped out are lame.  Beer was good.

[Quinton]

Yeah, I suck... I haven't gotten out of the office before 11pm any day this week, though work is obviously a lousy excuse.

[Zetor]

Represent, yo!

I know there's also a Romanian dude lurking around.

Did you just call me a Romanian?

This means WAR, sir!!! :p


-- Z.

[Cheddar]

No pictures?  Some of us have to live vicariously, you know!   

[diivox]

i am the ultimate lurker, and have had no interactions with this board other than reading it when i really really dont have anything else to read, but i live in santa rosa, and am more than happy to get drunk with random strangers from the internet for no apparent reason.

see you there

I bet he's going to show up and sit at the table behind you guys, and just listen in on your conversations all night.

this post was so full of truthiness, that i paused and said, "yeah, i like the site, but... he's right."

thank you sir for shining a light on the error of my ways. and to those who actually went: pics plz

[cmlancas]

I don't understand why you use shift for punctuation but not for capitalization.


GRAMMAR SNAKE IS ANGRY!

[Signe]

I bet it's just his style!

[Logik]

Longtime reader, first second time poster.  I'll be moving up to San Francisco (from San Diego) to start a new job in the city at the beginning of next month.  This is probably a terrible thread for the question, but could you SF denizens help me out by naming some neighborhoods to check out and some to avoid?  I've done some research, so I'm currently looking at Pacific Heights, Potrero Hill, Nob Hill, and the Mission (though I guess that should be low on the list  ).  If it helps, the office is by the city side of the Bay Bridge.

[Yoru]

Avoid Potrero Hill unless you like living next to the projects. The Mission is great if you need the local Crack-mart to be open 24/7, else avoid.

The Richmond, the Sunset, Pacific Heights, the Haight (upper or lower), the Hayes Valley, Nob Hill, South Beach. All nice areas. There's some good parts of the Western Addition too.

Of course, none of that's taking budget into account. The shittier areas are, generally, much cheaper.

[Nebu]

I looked into a job in San Fran a few years ago.  The real estate market scared me off.  How the hell does anyone afford a house there?  It's out of control.

[Samwise]

Yoru is a fancy lad.   Potrero Hill and the Mission are both perfectly nice neighborhoods (with the exception of a rough patch around 16th and Mission).  

If you've got the budget for Nob Hill, though, that's what I'd go for; get something on or near California street and you can take the cable car to work every day.  (Or walk if you want to build legs of steel.)

Neb: either you rent or you suck it up, take out a jumbo mortgage, and eat ramen for the next 30 years.

[cmlancas]

Samwise forgot to note that SF is one of the nicest cities in America, no matter what anyone says.


Fuck Florida. 

[Yoru]

Yoru is a fancy lad.   Potrero Hill and the Mission are both perfectly nice neighborhoods (with the exception of a rough patch around 16th and Mission).

Yeah, you can say that, I suppose. Let's play Anecdote Theater!

A friend of mine lives on Potrero Hill. His house, despite the security system and big fuckoff steel entry grate, was broken into and burgled a few months ago. The culprits are thought to be some guys from the projects on the south side of Potrero Hill. They got away with several thousand bucks worth of stuff.

Another friend of mine lives in the Mission just off 16th and Valencia. She bitches about the crackheads, dealers and pushers that she has to walk by on the way to work. It's also one of the areas singled out by the SFPD's gang unit for enforcement.

YMMV.

[Hoax]

Longtime reader, first second time poster.  I'll be moving up to San Francisco (from San Diego) to start a new job in the city at the beginning of next month.  This is probably a terrible thread for the question, but could you SF denizens help me out by naming some neighborhoods to check out and some to avoid?  I've done some research, so I'm currently looking at Pacific Heights, Potrero Hill, Nob Hill, and the Mission (though I guess that should be low on the list  ).  If it helps, the office is by the city side of the Bay Bridge.

I work in real estate & before that worked in property management (rental market) for 2.5 years.  Are you looking to rent or buy?  I can help either way.

[Samwise]

Another friend of mine lives in the Mission just off 16th and Valencia.

That would be the specific rough patch that I mentioned (Valencia is 2 short blocks over from Mission).     I haven't been through there in a while, but my recollection is that there's a radius of maybe three blocks around the 16th and Mission BART station that it's best to steer clear of.  The other couple of square miles are fine.

Not sure about Potrero Hill except that I've never seen as much of a spot of graffiti in the areas I've walked around, nor have I heard anything bad about it from any of my friends who live there.  Maybe there's one particular blemish on it that I've just never seen?  My advice would be to avoid the areas with big steel gates.

Put it this way: I've lived in "rough" parts of the city for most of my life (the Tenderloin and Visitacion Valley, mostly, and for a few years I lived on a block in the Ingleside that the Chron called "the worst street in the city" for reasons I still don't understand), and I know more people that have been involved in serious car accidents than I do people who have been the victims of any sort of street crime.  I figure I'm at more risk getting behind the wheel of a car in a "good" neighborhood than I am walking through a "bad" neighborhood on foot.

[Logik]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.  I think it's safe to say that Potrero and the Mission have dropped lower on my list of sections to check out.  Since I managed to conveniently leave it out of my other post, my specific rent range is somewhere in the 800-1250/mo area--I would definitely be looking for roommates.

As an aside, what's it like to have a car in the area?  I figure parking availability can vary wildly between the neighborhoods, but what can I expect to pay for a garage spot--assuming it's necessary.  It figures that I go without a car for years--living in urban areas--then move to SoCal, where it's a necessity, and now back to urban.

Hoax, are you more into property rental, or do you have some connections (or advice) for rooms?

[Samwise]

Since I managed to conveniently leave it out of my other post, my specific rent range is somewhere in the 800-1250/mo area--I would definitely be looking for roommates.

I'd start here.

As an aside, what's it like to have a car in the area?  I figure parking availability can vary wildly between the neighborhoods, but what can I expect to pay for a garage spot--assuming it's necessary.

Parking downtown is nuts.  You should talk to your HR person and find out where commuters tend to park and how much it costs, but I'd say figure on spending $30 a day if you drive to work.  You're much better off living on a light rail, cable car, or major bus line and spending the $2 a day or however much it is now for a bus pass.  California and Geary are both streets with very good bus lines running down their length if you go for a place in Nob Hill, Pacific Heights, or the Richmond.

[Logik]

Since I managed to conveniently leave it out of my other post, my specific rent range is somewhere in the 800-1250/mo area--I would definitely be looking for roommates.

I'd start here.

As an aside, what's it like to have a car in the area?  I figure parking availability can vary wildly between the neighborhoods, but what can I expect to pay for a garage spot--assuming it's necessary.

Parking downtown is nuts.  You should talk to your HR person and find out where commuters tend to park and how much it costs, but I'd say figure on spending $30 a day if you drive to work.  You're much better off living on a light rail, cable car, or major bus line and spending the $2 a day or however much it is now for a bus pass.  California and Geary are both streets with very good bus lines running down their length if you go for a place in Nob Hill, Pacific Heights, or the Richmond.

Ah, I meant to imply that I was looking for an idea of where to leave my car during the week (or, at least, a general idea of how much it would cost)--unless street parking is easier than I was lead to believe.  I intend to walk/bike/ride the bus to work.

[Samwise]

It'll depend on what part of the city you live in.  Residential areas will usually have some street parking if you're willing to circle around for a while to find it (and get a residential parking permit so you can leave your car there during the day).  An area like Nob Hill (where you're practically living downtown) might be tougher.  As a general rule, the higher the property values are per square foot the more difficult it'll be to park your car.

[Hoax]

Here's a quick rundown based on your budget:

$800 solo gets you nothing worth talking about, converted SRO's, bad neighborhoods, efficiency studios

$1100 solo can get you a decent studio in decent areas, a small studio in nice areas and an apartment-apartment 1bdr in boring parts of town (sunset, richmond, parkside etc)

$1600 w/ a roommate isn't much help tbh, a $1600 2bdr will have something wrong with it.

$2200 w/ a roommate is doable, either a tiny 2bdr somewhere cool to a nice flat somewhere in the boring parts of town.

Two roommates opens up even more possibilities.

As does trying to get into an existing tenancy as a subtenant:

Pro's:  Rent Control means, the longer the original lease has been in play the more undervalued the unit is.  You will save money doing this.

Con's:  Many sub-tenants at some point end up feeling like second class citizens, the law is very fuzzy and grey in this area & typically the longer a unit has been under rent control the less well kept it is.  This is a combination of the landlord not wanting to spend money on a unit he's losing money on and the tenants wanting the landlord to forget they are there.  The other con is if its a unit with 3+ bedrooms that is looking for a sublessor its typically a sort of revolving door tenancy situation.  Which can be really cool or really shitty.


Don't think of things too much in terms of neighborhoods, SF doesn't really conform to that.  But here's a quick breakdown of CL's geographic catagories:

SOMA/South Beach -- Very hit or miss, you can find cool stuff in SOMA these days its a neighborhood where tons of new highrises full of luxury condos are going up.  But anything cheap on the rental market here is bad news.  There are some very rough patches of SOMA still.  I'd say avoid.

USF/Panhandle -- A really cool neighborhood, decent prices, but you are up against stiff competition, if you want to steal a cool unit here you better have your shit together.  There are too many young people house hunting to be near campus for finding something here to not be a bitch.

Alamo Square/Nopa -- Another pretty awesome place to live, above the Haight with easy access to cool places but less of the annoying downsides.  This is a dog neighborhood, most buildings will be pet friendly, there are tons of great parks around.  Another competative place.

Bayview -- The only truly "ghetto" area in SF, avoid.

Bernal Hgts -- I always forget this is a neighborhood, its a nice suburb of the Mission but sort of removed from the rest of the city and near the freeways.  I've heard good things but never really worked/lived/managed property in this area so I'm not comfortable saying much.

Castro/Upper Market -- You aren't going to catch "teh gay" but if that stuff rankles you, stay away.  Very very sunny part of the city, close to market which means close to everything.  Very urban neighborhood in parts and then sections of the Castro are super quiet residential.

Cole Valley/Ashbury Hgts -- Beautiful quiet area on the outskirts of the Haight.  I'm not aware of there even being much of a rental market here, I shudder to think what the cost might be.  Cole Valley sucks balls imo, its a very NIMBY annoying tiny piece of town but thats a personal beef since Tasaharra Bakery went under and Cole Hardware got uncool.

Downtown / Civic / Van Ness -- see the TL, while there might be good things listed here, exhaust your other options first imo.  Buildings in this area will be real apartment buildings with 20+ units mostly.  There will not be deals, citiapartments owns a huge chunk of the RE and they are slumlords.  You will get what you pay for.

Excelsior / Outter Mission -- This barely qualifies as SF, I've lived in The City for 24 years and I've been to this area less then 5 times.  I have no info.

Financial District -- See: Downtown/Civic but nicer and more expensive mostly.  You will still be getting what you pay for.  These are professional buildings run by people who like money.  There is nice stuff, but it'll cost you.

Glen Park -- This is a strange part of town, its near to nice things and nasty things in equal measure.  I'm not aware of their being much of a rental market here but I would live in "most" of Glen Park.  Gets lots of sun like its neighbors Castro/outer Mission/Noe Valley

Haight Ashbury -- You don't want to live here.  Really. Its not worth the effort/money/bullshit, its a cool neighborhood and there are cool apartments but I doubt this is the place for you.

Ok that's about half of them, I'm going to take a break.

[Nebu]

$2200 w/ a roommate is doable, either a tiny 2bdr somewhere cool to a nice flat somewhere in the boring parts of town.

This was my point.  On $2200 a month I could live in a mansion in 95% of the country and still have $$$ leftover to fly to SanFran during my free time. 

[Hoax]

To be fair the cut off for when you can get a decent 2bdr/flat is about $1900/mo in just rent.