Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
March 28, 2024, 01:20:30 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
we're back, baby
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  City of Heroes / City of Villains  |  Topic: Late impressions of Big Patch 2 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Late impressions of Big Patch 2  (Read 12383 times)
Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #35 on: October 21, 2004, 09:45:40 AM

Edit: Removed because you don't need to be berated in your own forum.  Enjoy your game but your comments are making me smirk.

-Rasix
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42628

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #36 on: October 21, 2004, 09:51:04 AM

Quote from: Ookii
...in CoH I had to kite reds in order to progress at a reasonable rate...


The question really becomes what were you trying to progress to? I really think this misses the point of the game. You seemed to think there was something better out there to get.

There isn't, which is both a good and bad thing about CoH. For a jaded-ass MMOG vet like me, who levels slow as fuck, it's good because I have no obligation or incentive to compulsively level up and can just enjoy what I'm doing. It's bad, because some people can't seem to play a game without there being a carrot at the end, instead of swimming in carrot soup.

I stopped playing CoH because I was stuck in debt and had other things to play. I've come back about a month or two later to a game that has stuff I've never seen, and is easier to get out of debt. I don't play it compulsively, just whenever I feel like it, and that's probably the best thing about it to me.

I do think CoV will have a number of effects. It'll bring players back, it'll bring new players in, and it'll cause a lot of the min/max bullshit both Gulp and I HATE to be a regular part of the game.

schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345


WWW
Reply #37 on: October 21, 2004, 09:57:07 AM

Quote from: Rasix
Edit: Removed because you don't need to be berated in your own forum.  Enjoy your game but your comments are making me smirk.


bonk bonk bonk bonk bu bonk bonk bonk bonk, i wanna be berated.
Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #38 on: October 21, 2004, 10:11:53 AM

Quote from: schild
Quote from: Soukyan
Having lots of quests is a good thing to me.


CoH's quest system works as thus:
Delivery X to Y -> oh noes! clear out the clockworks -> rinse -> repeat. As much as I loved some of the enemy design and level design, this just got too old too fast. Frenetic is fun. But if they implemented other systems (hero hideouts, wardrobes, and other things that are completely for personal goals) the missions would have at least had a worthwhile payoff and the oppurtunity to vary the mission structure (hidden rooms with furniture you can steal for your apt, extra closet space, etc).


/agree

Which is why I am hoping that EQ2 quests prove to be more than that. With player housing in the game, perhaps quests will provide some neat little perks for personal goals.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Fargull
Contributor
Posts: 931


Reply #39 on: October 21, 2004, 10:44:20 AM

Hmm.. couple of points.  Some new quests have been added that are changing the normal modus operandi.

One quest was to save x civilians captured by the Ritki, but also to protect some equipment they had stolen.  The point was any damage you do that is area of effect also damages the equipment, you also have to pull aggro or take the Ritki down quick enough to keep the equipment alive.  The mission is a board the train outdoor mission.

Another was to get a blood sample from prisoners of the Ritki, which means doing the same standard freeing of x civies, but the game would go through a test with a med kit your given.  (nothing big here, but was interesting)

Third, in a lot of missions I have noticed just random blinking boxs and such, even though they are not listed on the need to do for the mission.  I have seen temp powers, clues, nothing, and xp given for the action of checking those blinking items out.

While no, it has not overly broken the mode, the fact they are taking steps to do so if only small ones is very encouraging.

"I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit." John Steinbeck
Sable Blaze
Terracotta Army
Posts: 189


Reply #40 on: October 21, 2004, 10:46:56 AM

Nothing like sniping at someone you've never met ingame, eh?

Well, I won't get too nasty. I made my original axe tanks so I could do the role that scrappers now enjoy. In beta, scrappers didn't look so good. Their staying power sucked and from a pure damage standpoint, they didn't look good (admittedly, I went on hearsay about BS here). Coming from a background of EQ and DAoC, more defense seemed a better bet for a character that could both group and solo effectively and have fun.

That...didn't work out.

My original ice/axe tank ran up against the problem of status defenses. Hers were great, aside from no defense against sleep. Also, since she was pure defense and no resist AND we didn't have a purple patch yet...well...she couldnt' tank and since her END costs were horrific she couldn't dish out damage for any length of time. She retired.

Tank #2. Since everyone and their dog was invul, I decided to go fire. It seemed to have the resists (hadn't figured out yet that you need both defense AND resists) and had an END recovery ability to support axe, hopefully. Same problems. No status protection, consume only keeps you swinging another few seconds, and lack of defense meant I got hit lots, even if it was for less. Again, couldn't tank the purples everyone wanted to fight and still was chronically out of END. Another early retiree.

Tanks #3 showed up about this time. She was a capitulation to the mass hunting of purples (invul/EM), but never really got  played all that much. Two things happened: the purple patch and I started to listen to my friends in the game that kept telling me I was better suited to scrappers.

Scrapper #1. Katana/regen. Regen looked good, especially after all the END woes of tankers. Katana...no real reason, I'd just heard BS wasn't much good and I like swords. This one took off like a shot. Fun to play, actually could fight more than 30 seconds without going OoE, did real damage (though axe does do comparable per hit damage with katana), and was highly mobile. She couldn't take a lot of hits, but wasn't much worse than ice that I could see overall. Best of all, no status worries once she had integration. LIfe was finally good. Except...

Scrapper #2. I like alts. I kept hearing that BS sucked, but it obviously hit very hard. So, I figured to make a BS scrapper just to see all the whys and wherefores for myself. BS and...hmm...don't like the look of dark, SR was seriously troublesome at this point (had friends with it to see first hand), and that left invul. So I was BS/invul. I quickly found out that invul scrappers played like tanks. This wan't so good. BS, however hit a ton and one shotting white cons from the getgo was a blast. END was a problem, but most of your enemies weren't around long enough for it to be really bothersome, so stuck with it. I've stuck with it for 40 levels now and I'm rather attached to this character. She's not the same as TheConfessor's BS/invul build. She's not a FotM scrapper, she has her ups and downs, but she's the one I find most entertaining over all (though I'm growing increasingly fond of katana/SR...my fifth scrapper).

That's my career in CoH in a nutshell. I've experimented and played what looked like fun to me. A big "fuck you" to those who think otherwise--BigGulp. I'm hardly a powerleveler. I've played since day one and have no level 50 characters. One lvl40, and a lot of alts below 30 (most around 20). Aside from skipping Positron with my BS/invul, she's finished every storyarc, done every boring TF, and has more badges than you can shake a dead hellion at. Again, screw you for your assumptions. If you REALLY want to see how I play you can look Shimmer Brand up on Victory. However, I don't deal with idiots well, and you've not made a good impression so far.
Soukyan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1995


WWW
Reply #41 on: October 21, 2004, 10:57:02 AM

Absolutely. I noticed last night that the missions have been made a bit more interesting. One of the missions I was on, I thought we had hit a dead end and then my teammate opened up this huge garage door over a loading dock in the warehouse and we entered a whole other section of mission. Pretty neat. It was just a little touch, but along with the things you mentioned, they are certainly refining missions and attempting to make things more interesting.

"Life is no cabaret... we're inviting you anyway." ~Amanda Palmer
"Tree, awesome, numa numa, love triangle, internal combustion engine, mountain, walk, whiskey, peace, pascagoula" ~Lantyssa
"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis qu'on a perdus." ~Marcel Proust
Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #42 on: October 21, 2004, 11:47:15 AM

Quote
I made my original axe tanks so I could do the role that scrappers now enjoy. In beta, scrappers didn't look so good. Their staying power sucked and from a pure damage standpoint, they didn't look good (admittedly, I went on hearsay about BS here). Coming from a background of EQ and DAoC, more defense seemed a better bet for a character that could both group and solo effectively and have fun.

Sable does not understand what Gulp is saying and continues to bolster his point.

Spiderman didn't get his relatively gimpy powerset because it was the most effective way to beat up villians. He got what he got because it fit the character concept.

I didn't take energy/energy because I felt it was the best blaster powerset, I took it because it matched my character's background. I took flying instead of superjump, because my character flies between planets. Not really,obviously, it's backstory that molds the character.

You've now bolstered Gulp's point a couple times, care to continue?
Quote
The question really becomes what were you trying to progress to? I really think this misses the point of the game. You seemed to think there was something better out there to get.

Ding ding ding. The journey is the thing, beating up bad guys is fun. Do not look for the man behind the curtain, there isn't one.

People looking for 'effective builds', looking for 'long term rewards', you people do not want to play CoH. You want to play a traditional mmog. It's not a failing of CoH, it's a difference in tastes. CoH is just about making a hero and going out and having fun. That's all. Nothing more to see, drive on to a 'deep and complex' world, if you've got the time.
personman
Terracotta Army
Posts: 380


Reply #43 on: October 21, 2004, 12:07:27 PM

Quote from: Fargull
Hmm.. couple of points.  Some new quests have been added that are changing the normal modus operandi.


I'm with Fargull - the quests have gotten good, and mission xp awards are back to the "fun" factor.  It's still D2 in tights but the design plan is very promising and Cryptic has been stellar at sticking to both their announced goals and the timelines.

I'm mildly interested in EQ2 and WoW but I suspect that I'll stick with CoH/CoV for a long time.  It's the most casual friendly game I've come across.  So far Cryptic's tactic off delivering fun first and adding depth over time works for me.

But I need more people on Guardian I can depend on as an SG. :-)  Only downside is the wildcard of pickup groups.
Gong
Terracotta Army
Posts: 88


Reply #44 on: October 21, 2004, 08:47:28 PM

you know, being a condescending asshole isn't really a cool way to be.

I really don't see wtf the problem is here. As far as I can tell, Sable enjoys playing CoH. Sky and Big Gulp also seem to enjoy playing CoH. everyone is having fun, great.

who really gives a shit as to why people enjoy it? the most important thing is that people are actually enjoying the game. I mean come on, we are all familiar with the Bartle quotient and all that it entails. Some people are going to get the most enjoyment from socializing with others, coming up with a cohesive story to their character and their choice of powers. Obviously others are going to get their kicks from designing a really powerful character and using it to level quickly.  Maybe others want to explore the game world, and so will need to get their character to a certain level to improve survivability. As long as everyone is happy, what is the problem?
Xilren's Twin
Moderator
Posts: 1648


Reply #45 on: October 21, 2004, 09:00:22 PM

Quote from: Fargull
One quest was to save x civilians captured by the Ritki, but also to protect some equipment they had stolen.  The point was any damage you do that is area of effect also damages the equipment, you also have to pull aggro or take the Ritki down quick enough to keep the equipment alive.  The mission is a board the train outdoor mission.


Tried my first one of these against the Lost, got 2 temp powers during the missions that were neat b/c they had negative side effcts in addition to their power (a stealth power that did damge to you when you used it, and a teleport that left your acc down).  But, i failed b/c there were about 5 lost around the last peice of equipment i needed to protect (a peice that monitored the hero emergency teleportation grid actually) and when i blasted a target, 2 others immediately started blasting the equipment; orange mobs vs blue equipment=didnt last long.  Still fun though.

I've also done 2 missions that needed multiple people.  They both had linked bombs that had to be defused at the same time.  Sky helped me do a Devouring Earth one, and Haem and I just did a Family mission tonight (had to pickup a random person to defuse the 3rd bomb).

As to CoH in general, even at relase i was getting the vast majority of my exp from "questing" i.e. running missions so I'm not sure while anyone would feel the need to kite reds to gain experience regularly; and that was even prior to the increased mission rewards.  

Besides, while I haven;t tried EQ2 or WOW quest system yet, i suspect their quests will actually have less variety of things to do than CoH's.  Consider, most typical missions starting at level 1, you could get almost any combination of needing to a) rescue npc's b) find clues or bombs or relics/stolen goods c) defeat bosses and their guards d) defeat all mobs in the area e) deliver items/information f) kills a set number of foes in a specificed area g) protect important points/things h) travel to a series of landmarks i) destroy inamimate objects like lab equipment j) use temporary powers your character normally doesnt have access to k)survive hit squads that come after you l) have multiple players take actions in seperate areas of the map simultaneous and last but not least m)do it in a set amount of time or fail.  The plotlines, story arcs, sovieners and badges you can get just add to the immersion of the missions.  You even have to do minor missions to be able to buy and sell at higher level stores.  Being able to pick what missions and contacts you want to pursue.  Hell, just being able to FAIL a quest has been a new experience.

I'm trying to recall any mmorpg thus far including what i've heard about WoW and EQ2 that will even have a small part of those type of gameplay options in their quests.  If the quests dont provide engaging gameplay, what the real difference if there are 10, 100 or 1000 of em?

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8024


Reply #46 on: October 21, 2004, 11:13:25 PM

*groans and eyes his COH CDs* must. resist. temptation.

*imagines the Bold Blue Bomb in a cape*

Have things changed enought that rerolling might be worth it just to see the new early stuff? How does one get a cape?

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Sable Blaze
Terracotta Army
Posts: 189


Reply #47 on: October 21, 2004, 11:35:16 PM

They've added some new missions with new effects in the original tilesets. Hollows missions (levels 6 to 15) have these new tilesets, including a tunnels tileset. They're definately worth seeing. They have individual "themes" for what villain group you're fighting (Freakshow is particularily impressive).

Capes are a quest that you can initiate at lvl20. Talk to the City Rep in Atlas Park and she'll square you away. You may want to consider bringing a few associates for this one.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #48 on: October 22, 2004, 02:04:00 AM

Whatever you do, don't bring a group on the cape mission - and make sure you do it at lvl 20.

The grouped version of the mission is substantially different in terms of the scale and number of bad guys.

Doing it solo is a cakewalk, doing it even in a duo is likely to end a couple of bars of debt unless you have a really good group.

Talk to the city rep in the AP town hall to get started.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Glazius
Terracotta Army
Posts: 755


Reply #49 on: October 22, 2004, 05:20:54 AM

Quote from: Ardent
Quote from: Big Gulp
Another thing, stop being cheesedicks who build a character solely around what seem like the most effective min/max powers.  How's about you come up with a cohesive character idea first and then build your alter ego around that?  Fucking novel idea, no?  You people are the kind of assholes that I'd kill off on a regular basis in Champions.  No respect for comic books, you just want the most powerful character regardless of whether it y'know, actually fits into the game world or makes any kind of thematic sense.


OK, let me pick up my head and place it back on my neck. Hopefully it will still fit with all the bite marks.

While it's all fine and dandy to sit in the Android's Dungeon and condescend, some of us want to play the game effectively. I don't play to min/max, I play to have fun, and gimping around with abilities that are not effective because I chose them when I didn't truly understand how the game works is not my kind of fun.

As for "concept", I took the time to head to the ICON store and write down all my costume choices so I could duplicate him exactly when I rerolled, because I love his look and his story.

I only posted his name on here because I thought I would find some cool people to play with. Time to look elsewhere, apparently.

Kinetics is frickin' awesome. Especially with a controller to back it up. A lot of kinetics is predicated on mob positioning (transfusion, transference, fulcrum shift, and to some degree siphon power) so being able to hold things in one place while you trick off them is a godsend.

Increase Density is like tossing Unyielding Stance on other people and they can still move. Speed Boost is Hasten with an endurance-regen component to keep up with it.

And Transfusion?

Most powerful AOE heal in the game. But guess what, you don't have the positioning problems an actual kinetic defender has. Empathy has better single-target heals, but you can easily outheal an AOE from all but the most dedicated defenders.

Empathy and Force Field are the two most obvious defender builds, but there's huge love to be had if you know how to work the others.

The only thing that makes kinetics slightly gimp is that there's a window where you can target a dying mob with Transfusion/Transference, and it hits, the animation plays, and the power starts to recharge, but it has no effect.

--GF
Ookii
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 2676

is actually Trippy


WWW
Reply #50 on: October 22, 2004, 06:15:54 AM

Quote from: HaemishM
The question really becomes what were you trying to progress to? I really think this misses the point of the game. You seemed to think there was something better out there to get.

Well first it was to get my transportation power, to me the game isn't as fun as after you get superjump (oh how I miss you superjump).  

Second it was the desire to get new powers, pretty much the draw of the game at the beginning there.  You did the crappy missions and ran around killing mobs in order to get that teleport friend, smoke grenade, or cloak.  I didn't find the whole story they were weaving intriguing enough to play slowly and get inovled, but then again when I find an EQ2 mob I can have a two minute conversation with about some ancient place (and it becomes obvious I won't get a quest), I just leave.

Sable Blaze
Terracotta Army
Posts: 189


Reply #51 on: October 22, 2004, 09:46:24 AM

The draw of the game is to play the game. Experiment with the mechanics, see the sights, do whatever it is you do, and just basically play the game.

As for the cloak quests, well, the final mission does scale visciously. You won't want a full group, that's for sure. But unless you have considerable ability to lock down mobs one way or another, you may want a friend or two. I don't want to spoil the end for anyone that hasn't done it, but you need some staying power here.
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #52 on: October 22, 2004, 10:37:11 AM

Quote from: Sable Blaze
you may want a friend or two.


When I said to do it solo above, I should put on a disclaimer that I did it solo with a scrapper, and dead on level 20.

Next mission after that I was with a group of 6 who were trying to complete a level 27 cloak mission that was set for 2 people. We needed to a level 42 to help in the end.

Do it around level 20, and you get a different villan group at the end to what you get with higher level players.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117

I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #53 on: October 22, 2004, 12:39:14 PM

I was able to solo the cape mission at level twenty with my energy/energy blaster. But I've heard a few people ingame with similar comments about difficulty ramping up very quickly when more people/levels are involved.
Xilren's Twin
Moderator
Posts: 1648


Reply #54 on: October 22, 2004, 01:19:15 PM

Quote from: Sable Blaze
As for the cloak quests, well, the final mission does scale visciously. You won't want a full group, that's for sure. But unless you have considerable ability to lock down mobs one way or another, you may want a friend or two. I don't want to spoil the end for anyone that hasn't done it, but you need some staying power here.


Hrm, i thought it was very doable solo; no problems at 24 myself.  One nice thing about some of the missions is you have to change the way you fight to suit the circumstances; it's not rocket science, but still variety=gud.

Xilren

"..but I'm by no means normal." - Schild
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11838


Reply #55 on: October 22, 2004, 04:24:36 PM

Quote from: HaemishM

The question really becomes what were you trying to progress to? I really think this misses the point of the game. You seemed to think there was something better out there to get.

There isn't, which is both a good and bad thing about CoH.


The game really does change at higher levels, by that I mean both the missions get a slightly different slant (it's still 'kill everything' but the everything does use different tactics and powers, and the balance of minions/bosses/avs changes substantially), and also the way you play a character over level 30 is different to under 20.

It's fair to say it's not 'better', but it is different.

Quote from: Schild

CoH's quest system works as thus:
Delivery X to Y -> oh noes! clear out the clockworks -> rinse -> repeat.


True, but you could say the same of, say, KOtOR.

The thing they do need to develop more is the way they express the story to you (since reading 5 pages of text of a computer screen is not an accessible way to move through a narrative). The story is all that really stops a single player rpgh looking any different in terms of quest structure.


All the accusations of CoH being grind based and not having a fast enough or interesting enough progression can make a perfectly fair case against CoH. You can also make valid complaint about the lack of PvP or crafting/homemaking/economics. But at the same time there is no pve MMORPG I am aware of that has less grindy gameplay or more variety in the core mechanic.

Yes, I'm looking at you EQ2 and WoW.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8024


Reply #56 on: October 22, 2004, 06:21:04 PM

Argh! Ok...I can afford both COH and WoW or EQ2...yeah...that's it....

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  City of Heroes / City of Villains  |  Topic: Late impressions of Big Patch 2  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC