What the hell is a 'jackhob'?

[Miasma]

Also: ban avoidance, which is a big reason he was let go.

Ban avoidance?  I thought the last time he left was on his own accord, he scrambled his own password so that he couldn't login again.  That's why he had to re-register.  Mind you I'm glad I won't have to glaze over his posts anymore.  I don't hate the guy, I mostly feel sorry for him, he's got some problems.

Meh, I'll ban myself.  A randomized password and email address should do the trick.

I'm just feeling slighted because you have your private forum and you STILL feel the need to post in threads after they went to the den.

Which I absolutely hate because it gives people the ability to make cheap shots without other people being able to react, and it invalidates the "Frozen in time for its stupidity" purpose as well.

They've gotten much better about that since the last time.

[schild]

I'm just feeling slighted because you have your private forum and you STILL feel the need to post in threads after they went to the den.

Which I absolutely hate because it gives people the ability to make cheap shots without other people being able to react, and it invalidates the "Frozen in time for its stupidity" purpose as well.

Cold Storage, the original Den, was for Frozen in Time shit.

I think you have your leper communities confused.

[Endie]

Endie, you're a smart guy.  Just do some light reading on Geldon.  He wasn't banned because one or two people in the Secret Cabal disliked him.  Also: ban avoidance, which is a big reason he was let go.  If there was a mistake here, it was letting him post for so long after his second coming.  Also read the part about how many people have been banned here.  As for voting, also read the posts surrounding Geldon's posts and observe his contributions to discussions.  It's just not as horrible as you see it.

Of course, given the color of my name, I don't expect you to take my word for it.

Don't worry, you're not due for a banning until the April Purges.

Cheers for a proper resonse, Yegolev.

Honestly, I know about Geldon's posting.  My nightmare was that Schild would make one of his terribly hilarious decisions and say "OK, he's back!" and put "Geldon appears courtesy of Endie" as his grief title.  But on the broad spectrum of internet forum behaviour his was fairly benign.  It added flavour, and lent threads someone to argue with.  He wasn't raging at people in capitals or posting insane graphs.  Which is a shame, all things considered.  But I really didn't see what harm he was doing.

He said on his blog that it was Rasix - a green name - who invited him back.  If that's true then the ban avoidance thing really doesn't wash.  I'm sure there are two sides to that story, but it looks bad.

And if I get banned I have your XBox live account name and am rating you 1 star on player feedback.  The same goes for you all.  I'm not going down without a fight.

PS Tebonas is right the recent posting on denned threads sucked.  Although mainly because I had some really killer burns and couldn't post them.

[Ironwood]

But petty and vindictive bans that amount to little more than in-jokes, and which relate to behaviour nowhere near as outright unpleasant as that committed without consequence in the past week or so by more "in" members can't then be justified by the flinging around of a quick "hay guys we're all empowered here!"  

What ?

[Falconeer]

about a guy who would post three times in a row about his personal bullshit in nearly every single thread he was involved with

Now THAT is bullshit. Are you a door-to-doot salesman? A politician?

(almost) always spoke without logic or humor

Mortal sin!
... and like he was the only one. Feh!

[tazelbain]

The problem with Geld like Sir Bruce, his posting made every thread about him.  Normal people can control thremselves.  Geld can not.  Geld can't even let it go even after he admits he is wrong.

[Endie]

But petty and vindictive bans that amount to little more than in-jokes, and which relate to behaviour nowhere near as outright unpleasant as that committed without consequence in the past week or so by more "in" members can't then be justified by the flinging around of a quick "hay guys we're all empowered here!"  

What ?

You're going to have to help me out here.  Which part of the quoted paragraph do you need help with?

[schild]

Geldon, Bruce, Hyu - these people should have standing bans.

My tolerance led people to believe that these people aren't necessarily as bad as people say.

They are.

So, go ahead, confuse my tolerance with lunacy. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[Rasix]

Which I absolutely hate because it gives people the ability to make cheap shots without other people being able to react, and it invalidates the "Frozen in time for its stupidity" purpose as well.

We've tried to cut down on the amount of last word bullshit in the Den.  I honstly don't see it very often anymore.   And uhh.. some posts have been intentionally left unlocked so certain morons could get dogpiled on.

And Yeg is a little confused about ban avoidance.  That was Hyu's reason for exiting the stage.

He said on his blog that it was Rasix - a green name - who invited him back.

What, no.  I banned him. 

[schild]

Rasix would never, in a thousand years, invite him back.

[Endie]

He said on his blog that it was Rasix - a green name - who invited him back.

What, no.  I banned him. 

I was going by what he said on his blog:

Ironically, it was Rasix himself who contacted me over the Hellgate: London boards and asked if I would come back to F13.

Edit: For clarity it was in the comments thread of this page: http://geldonsgaming.blogspot.com/2007/12/f13-leadership-still-irrational.html

[SnakeCharmer]

Pointless 2 cents:

Freedom of speech as guaranteed by a democratic process only go so far as moderators/admins/owners allow it to happen.  It's their house, we're just guests in it.  Not just here, but any forum.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

[schild]

Hey, Endie.

How about you stop believing what he says? It makes you look like a loon.

The guy is completely delusional. He honestly believes he was banned over posting 3 times in a row.

Come on. Really? Really?

[Tebonas]

We've tried to cut down on the amount of last word bullshit in the Den.  I honstly don't see it very often anymore. 

In all fairness thats true.

And uhh.. some posts have been intentionally left unlocked so certain morons could get dogpiled on.

And thats plain nasty. Either I am in the position of the moron then I'm pissed off I can't defend my moronic ways, or I want to get my kick in and can't join in on the fun. The second thing is very wrong, though, and personally I'm glad I'm not tempted by that opportunity to kick somebody when he is defenseless.

If Schild says I mixed the Den up with Cold Storage I can believe that, after a while it all flows together in my mind.

[Ironwood]

What's Cold Storage ?

[Tebonas]

I'm not entirely sure, it might have been Waterthread or Slow News Day?

[Ironwood]

Wasn't that The Basement ?  Or was that Lum ?

I'm very confused today.  I need Signe to explain things to me.

[Falconeer]

The problem with Geld like Sir Bruce, his posting made every thread about him.  Normal people can control thremselves.  Geld can not.  Geld can't even let it go even after he admits he is wrong.

Yes, because everyone loved to mock or just piss&shit on him for free. THAT made so many thread about him. Most of the times it wasn't Geldon to turn the threads Geldon-wise. It was everyone else. Not always (hey..) but so often.

[Ironwood]

In those situatiions, do you ban the 1 guy or just give him the website and ban the other 103 ?

 

[Endie]

Hey, Endie.

How about you stop believing what he says? It makes you look like a loon.

The guy is completely delusional. He honestly believes he was banned over posting 3 times in a row.

Come on. Really? Really?

Oh ffs read what I said the first time I mentioned it: that there are no doubt two sides to every story.  But he's said something quite specific there, which I, initially, have no particular reason to disbelieve, and all of your posts so far on the topic have just boiled down to either "you're stupid for disagreeing with me" (how does "How about you stop believing what he says? It makes you look like a loon" help?) or "I am a really nice guy who doesn't really ban people."  If Rasix says this is all entirely made up by Geldon and he never said anything that could be construed as such an invitation, then at best we have two people saying opposite things.  That usually means both are a bit right and a bit wrong.

And what did he get banned for?  Honestly, I just don't know.  And since there are a bunch of other sane, rational posters here who feel much the same way (some of whom chose not to post on this board about it, presumably for fear of getting what I'm getting over it: a mild gang-banging by the green and blue superfriends), then it's not just me being obtuse or dim.

[Ironwood]

 then at best we have two people saying opposite things.  That usually means both are a bit right and a bit wrong.

Actually, it's more likely that someone's lying.  If they're taking opposite tacks.  You know, Black/White.  It's not really a matter of perspective...

If they're just mildly disagreeing sure.  But opposite ?  Someone's talking pish.

Or something...

I'll shut up...

Honest.

[Falconeer]

It would be a start to admit that sometimes f13 likes to have a gimp to toy with. Pulp Fiction style, multiplied by 103 (as per Ironwood's figures).

[HaemishM]

Aside from an absolutely nonsensical post about F13 being a 'democracy'

Hate to pile on late here, but F13 has never been, nor should it ever be considered a democracy. This is SCHILD'S PLAYGROUND, and we all just happen to be kids he hasn't kicked off of it yet. He pays for it (well he did until the donations thing) and he runs it. Just like Waterthread was Joe's playground and LTM was Lum's playground before that, it's in no way a democracy and never has been. It should never even be considered that. The only way to make a democracy of an Internet community is to have everyone pay for it in equal share.

And then it'll go crashing down into flames over some shitty geek drama.

Like it or not, it's up to schild ultimately who stays and who goes. As for Geldon or anyone else banned, as someone who has been privy to these type of discussions before, generally speaking it isn't one post or 5 posts or 100 posts. It's a long-term pattern of fucktardery that gets someone banned. Geldon's problems go back years and these mods (and myself and other posters on this board) have put up with them for years. Same with Hyu/BigBlack/Telemediocrity.

This ain't a democracy and no one is forcing anyone to be here.

[Endie]

Haemish, read the thread before picking out one post.  Schild was the one saying it was a democracy.  All I did was disagree with him, and largely agree with you.

[HaemishM]

No, he said it was MOSTLY a democracy. And he got to pick who had a vote. Which means it really isn't a democracy.

And it really doesn't matter what he said, there are no democracies on the Internet when there's only one person paying the bills and one person who has the ultimate power of the banstick. There just isn't. Thinking anything else is naive.

If it's any consolation, were I still an f13 owner, or mod, or writer or whatever, I'd have banned Geldon, Hyu and Bruce too. Shit, I led many charges to get Bruce banned and was overruled by schild and Shockeye a number of times.

[WayAbvPar]

The problem with Geld like Sir Bruce, his posting made every thread about him.  Normal people can control thremselves.  Geld can not.  Geld can't even let it go even after he admits he is wrong.

This is it. Entirely.

The same thing would happen to any other poster who was so annoying that nearly every thread in which they participated became a two sided conversation- them against everyone else who posts. Bruce was famous for it, and it is why he is no longer welcome here. Dash does it in Politics; if it happens anywhere besides there he will be gone too.

[Simond]

Endie, you're a smart guy.  Just do some light reading on Geldon.  He wasn't banned because one or two people in the Secret Cabal disliked him.  Also: ban avoidance, which is a big reason he was let go.  If there was a mistake here, it was letting him post for so long after his second coming.  Also read the part about how many people have been banned here.  As for voting, also read the posts surrounding Geldon's posts and observe his contributions to discussions.  It's just not as horrible as you see it.

Of course, given the color of my name, I don't expect you to take my word for it.

Don't worry, you're not due for a banning until the April Purges.

My nightmare was that Schild would make one of his terribly hilarious decisions and say "OK, he's back!" and put "Geldon appears courtesy of Endie" as his grief title.

That sounds like an  plan and should be implemented immediately.

[schild]

When I said democracy, I specifically meant that the mods make a lot of the rules and decide on a lot of the bannings. And as executive, I happen to have veto or approval power. I didn't actually mean mods are voted by the people for the people. As in, I give a lot of power to the chosen volunteers.

But whatever, bad term to use.

Point is, Ironwood nailed it. Ban a hundred people or ban 1 that probably should've been banned from day 1.

Edit: Also, Geldon is just completely mad. Like a loon. He's just making shit up on his blog.

There is a ritual is that they like to ban somebody once in awhile for giggles. However, there was more to it in my case - they genuinely dislike me.

Nope, that's Waterthread and #hate.

Ironically, it was Rasix himself who contacted me over the Hellgate: London boards and asked if I would come back to F13.

Almost believable, until he said Rasix was posting on the official Hellgate boards. Huh? Rasix on official boards? That's a new level of creepy. The only way I can see that is if Rasix were on the sauce.

The decision was from their inner-clique forum. Schild believes it's being diplomatic to allow his scruples to be overridden by majority opinion of the people he's empowered.

No, this particular decision came directly from the mods. The fact a bunch of other people wanted the same thing was... not so highly coincidental.

* My only supporter was Cheddar, who I thought as an ok guy but whose loyalty apparently is only only worth $20 on a stupid bet. "The bet" was that I wouldn't post more than twice a thread.

Pretty sure Cheddar wasn't a supporter. More just likes to gamble. Also, he wanted you to shut the fuck up.

Psychos disrupt communities. Psychos need to be purged. Thankfully, on the internet, there is a euthanasia ban button.

[Endie]

My nightmare was that Schild would make one of his terribly hilarious decisions and say "OK, he's back!" and put "Geldon appears courtesy of Endie" as his grief title.

That sounds like an  plan and should be implemented immediately.

It's what I would have done, for sure.

[Phildo]

There also seems to be something unhealthy about Geldon spending as much time as he did attempting to contribute to a message board where most of his posts were greeted with responses about how much people hated him.  There's also the fact that after the banning he wrote a blog post stating that he wants to come back.  And his responses to his own blog shows evidence that he's still reading F13.

Isn't it time to let go, Geldon?

[schild]

Isn't it time to let go, Geldon?

You know very little about Geldon. ^_^

[Signe]

Wasn't that The Basement ?  Or was that Lum ?

I'm very confused today.  I need Signe to explain things to me.

You're an easy one to help. 

[voodoolily]

Isn't it time to let go, Geldon?

You know very little about Geldon. ^_^

Also, he's been lurking on the irc as "Gets". For like a week. And when I called him out he played stupid.

[schild]

Where Things Go To Die.
Cold Storage.
Den of Iniquity.

Those are the 3 places threads go from Waterthread/f13.

In the former 2, WTGTD and Cold Storage were only locked threads and no one responded.

Originally, the Den was a place terrible threads went but people were allowed to post. Then we removed all rights. And then we opened up the right for about 20-30 long standing members to make hideous fun of the... jackhobs that ended up there.

Also, all this talk of an innermost circle. Man you all are just conspiracy theorists. The rabbit hole is far, far deeper. Get more foil.

Edit: Also, I'm a very open person. Ask anyone who's talked to me on AIM or IRC. You see all that shit under my profile, it's very easy to contact me and I'm often very open to suggestion about f13. In fact, I even contact a lot of people directly. Innermost circle, my ass.

Edit 2: Fuck, I keep forgetting to log into IRC. Damnit.

[WayAbvPar]

Isn't it time to let go, Geldon?

You know very little about Geldon. ^_^

Also, he's been lurking on the irc as "Gets". For like a week. And when I called him out he played stupid.

Talk about a role he was meant to play....