When to switch ships?

[Drogo]

I am currently flying a cruiser and I can do all level 2 missions without a problem. I can probably get into a BC in a couple of days training time, but my actual ship skills suck for the cruiser and will be awful for the BC. Should I head straight into BC to be able to start level 3 missions or spend time getting my other skills up so I can fly all my ships better. Also it seems like a person could head straight to a BS and skip learning the BC, if my character is mainly focused on missioning right now would that be a better idea if I want to fly BS's or is it worth getting in a BC for a week or two and fly the levels 3s before moving on to a BS and level 4s. I am really just curious where the money is, if I make a ton better money flying a crappy BS doing level 4 missions, a crappy BC doing level 3 missions or should I work on my skills so I am flying a good cruiser doing level 2 missions?

As an aside, I am gallente and right now, so I fly into missions and let my drones kill everything, I just shoot to get agro and let the drones clean up. So I was also wondering if this would still work in level 3 or 4 missions with the bigger ships. Thanks for the help.

[Slayerik]

As a gallente I'd say just train up for a Domi (cheap battleship). With good drone skills, Domi is a helluva boat.

[Viin]

Just my opinion, but I don't think you will ever know how unprepared you are until you get into that next ship and take it out on a mission. If you can afford it I'd say go for a BC to do your level 2's in (they will go faster) while you ramp up skills to carry the bigger weapons and handle more drones. Once you are comfortable with what you have, try level 3's and see how it goes. If you get your ass handed to you then you need to figure something else out. :)

[Fordel]

Raise your skills some more. A Vexor can do absolutely ridiculous things compared to other cruisers.

Just because you could fly something bigger, doesn't mean you should.

[Kitsune]

As long as the skills you're learning now are also applicable to later ships, it costs you nothing to stay in your cruiser.  If you're planning on moving on to a different class of ship in the near future, I wouldn't put more SP towards cruiser-specific things like medium weapons, but generic gunnery, engineering, etc. skills will help you now and help you down the road, while getting yourself blown up in a half-assed battlecruiser will just lose you millions of ISK.

Polish up your base skills first, then step into the next class of ship.  You'll be far more powerful for it.

[Endie]

I can promise you that if you rush to L4 missions as soon as you have the skills to use a BS and the minimum standings involved then you will lose it.  Frigates scramble in L4s.  Sometimes, the scrambling frigates are the triggers for the following BS waves, so you start trying to get out in a panic and find yourself with 16 or 18 battleships pounding on you (no exaggeration).  I don't know about other BCs, but a drake can easily run L3s and, with good tanking skills and fits, most L4s, so it's not to be sniffed at.

[Reg]

I was in a big hurry to get into level 3 missions and I lost two battle cruisers before I gave up and just saved my pennies for a battleship. Sure, a battlecruiser will be able to handle most level 3s but the trick is knowing which ones will get you blown up and there are a few that will definitely do it if your support skills aren't very good. :)

[ajax34i]

I haven't played in a while, but my opinion is as follows:

Going from frigate missions to cruiser missions you learn how to operate a slow ship that needs to be tanked to survive (compared to the fast dash-in guns blazing frigate fights).  The battleship is similar to the cruiser in that it's slow and relies on tanking to survive, but the difference in the missions (compared to the cruiser ones) is that the NPC's come in assortments of fast orbiter frigates/interceptors (who might scramble or target jam you) combined with long-range tanked heavy hitters.  You're sposed to learn how to counter EW, basically, and deal with mixed groups.

And I think you need good support skills for that.  Your battleship needs to be able to hit small fast ships, and at the same time do heavy damage on big ships, while also using EW or countering it.  It takes a lot of support skills; and you need to maximize your weapon systems, and use all of them (big guns, drones, missiles, everything that the ship provides), while also tanking quite a bit of damage.

Battlecruiser I think is for doing cruiser missions faster with a ship that's cheaper than a BS.  Of course, some people have such good support skills that they can take it into much tougher missions than it's "designed" for.  I've seen people in frigates doing cruiser missions too.

[Drogo]

Thanks for the advice, guess I will put my BS dreams on hold for a little while, the image of losing one in the first mission because I can't do anything to stop the EW is just too vivid in my mind.

[Thrawn]

Thanks for the advice, guess I will put my BS dreams on hold for a little while, the image of losing one in the first mission because I can't do anything to stop the EW is just too vivid in my mind.

I almost lost my shiny new Ferox in a level TWO mission a day or two ago.  I'm not even sure what happened, it seemed like I was doing fine blowing up rats then a couple of named ships from the mission showed up and shortly after I was taking hull damage.  I didn't even get my drones scooped up before I warped out.   

Then I warped back after repairs and easily blew them out of space from max range.

[Endie]

Thanks for the advice, guess I will put my BS dreams on hold for a little while, the image of losing one in the first mission because I can't do anything to stop the EW is just too vivid in my mind.

EW.  Oh yeah that sucks: wait til you are fighting Guristas, without ECCM, watching your shields sink while you are permajammed and scrambled and your drones have decided to split up and take a battleship each, ignoring the scrambling frigates.

[Slayerik]

Thanks for the advice, guess I will put my BS dreams on hold for a little while, the image of losing one in the first mission because I can't do anything to stop the EW is just too vivid in my mind.

If you have drone skills, seriously look at using a domi. They take out any size ship easily with the huge drone bay. It is also cheaper on ammo. A domi doing level 3 missions would be cake.

[Morat20]

Raise your skills some more. A Vexor can do absolutely ridiculous things compared to other cruisers.

That's for goddamn sure. I'm still running L2's with my Vex, but half of them I easily shield tank (and a Vex, and my setup, is designed for armor tanking). There's perhaps two of the newer missions (released patch before last) that require me to be careful about triggering the next wave, but for the most part I can sleepwalk through the missions.

I was hoping to post my skill list, but for some reason I can't access my character -- but can access my account. Probably because my sub is currently lapsed.

[Nevermore]

Level 2s in a Vexor became so easy that I switched to an Ishkur just to take a slightly more active role.  Still almost as easy, though.

It's too bad I don't have more time to play.  I'm only managing an hour or two a week these days.

[Morat20]

Level 2s in a Vexor became so easy that I switched to an Ishkur just to take a slightly more active role.  Still almost as easy, though.

It's too bad I don't have more time to play.  I'm only managing an hour or two a week these days.

It is pretty easy. Fly in, aggro, launch drones, apply drones to target while orbiting the smoking corpse of your first target. Begin salvaging and tractoring in wrecks while the fight is still ongoing (if it's so easy I'm shield boosting) or nos the smallest target while armor tanking until they're all dead. Recall drones, salvage, move on.

If someone aggros on my drones, I just call them back and then release them again when the aggro is on me.

[IainC]

Get better at flying a cruiser. All those cruiser skills are directly transferable to a BC and will set you up for bigger ships later - you'll never regret training a few levels of Weapons Upgrades or Drone Interfacing no matter whaich ship you're flying after all.

Once you have a bit of a bankroll behind you and some decent fitting skills, get into a Myrmidon and continue to train your fitting skills until you can afk through any L3 mission. Once you're at that point, start training up for BS sized modules and dip your toes in the water for L4 missions. The difficulty jump from L3 to L4 is quite high though as other have said. Read the online mission guides, make sure your resists are above 75% at a minimum (for PvE resists >> armour) for the rats you're facing and make sure you're aligned for warpout before you aggro anything. Once you're able to make L4 missions routine you'll be bringing in the isk like you wouldn't believe (or the LPs if you blitz missions without killing all the rats and salvaging).

I make about 150m isk a week despite only playing 3-4 nights a week.

[Slayerik]

Why bother with a Myrmi? I would have agreed a month ago, but post nerf....Meh.

One more time, Domi is the shit. You could even throw medium guns on it if you wanted. 5 Heavies rape.

[IainC]

Why bother with a Myrmi? I would have agreed a month ago, but post nerf....Meh.

One more time, Domi is the shit. You could even throw medium guns on it if you wanted. 5 Heavies rape.

Because you can fly a Myrm using the exact same skills that you use to fly your Vexor (apart from the actual BC skill of course). If your fitting skills aren't so hot (and if you're a newb they probably aren't), then you get a massive increase in firepower and survivability for not a lot of extra outlay in isk or time. A Domi is the shit all things being equal (I fly one myself for L4s), but a Myrm flown by someone with reasonable cruiser skills will rape a Domi flown by someone with crappy BS skills. Jumping straight into a Domi from a Vexor is only great if you don't mind buying a new battleship every few missions.

[Drogo]

So I am confused again, can someone at least tell me a guess in the difference of pay for missions and rats going from level 2 to level 3, right now I get about 100k, plus 100k bonus per mission and most rats are still at about 10k with the occasional 40k cruiser thrown in for level 2 missions, what can I expect from level 3 missions. These are done with an agent in a .6 zone and would be looking for the same for level 3s.

[IainC]

So I am confused again, can someone at least tell me a guess in the difference of pay for missions and rats going from level 2 to level 3, right now I get about 100k, plus 100k bonus per mission and most rats are still at about 10k with the occasional 40k cruiser thrown in for level 2 missions, what can I expect from level 3 missions. These are done with an agent in a .6 zone and would be looking for the same for level 3s.

Pay depends on the quality of the agent and your Negotiations skill level. As far as bounties are concerned you'll be meeting BCs worth about 130k, cruisers worth 50-70k and the occasional interceptor or destroyer worth about 20k. If you meet BS's they'll be low end ones worth about 300-500k.

Salvage is good for L3 missions though unless you're simply blitzing LPs, you can expect at least 5x the total mission reward + bounties in salvage value.

[Slayerik]

Why bother with a Myrmi? I would have agreed a month ago, but post nerf....Meh.

One more time, Domi is the shit. You could even throw medium guns on it if you wanted. 5 Heavies rape.

Because you can fly a Myrm using the exact same skills that you use to fly your Vexor (apart from the actual BC skill of course). If your fitting skills aren't so hot (and if you're a newb they probably aren't), then you get a massive increase in firepower and survivability for not a lot of extra outlay in isk or time. A Domi is the shit all things being equal (I fly one myself for L4s), but a Myrm flown by someone with reasonable cruiser skills will rape a Domi flown by someone with crappy BS skills. Jumping straight into a Domi from a Vexor is only great if you don't mind buying a new battleship every few missions.

Im not sure how you figure. With the pure amount of low slots a domi has (for tanking), the drone bay to kill ANYTHING (DPS), the grid to fit what ever guns you what (large, medium), and the Myrmi doesn't get a damage bonus on the guns either. With the Myrmi having a 75m3 bandwidth now, it is 3/5th the damage it used to be. Domi has 5 mids so you can run a AB and 4 x Cap rechargers. In the lows put in a large or 2x medium armor rep (if you cant fit a large), a couple faction specific hardeners, and basically take a piss while your drones rape the universe. All for just 20 mil more than a myrm. Insurance payout on a Domi is very big as well. Variations would be using a Mid for Drone Navigation Link (extra drone speed) or the Dontrol Augmentation (or w/e ) in the high slot for more drone rape range.

If you are heavy gunnery and kinda shitty drone skills, i'd recommend a brutix. 7 turret hardpoints and a 50m3 drone bay to boot, with an armor rep bonus and a decent price tag.

[Fordel]

The Brutix can also double as a kick ass mining ship. The only real suck is can dumping every like 15 damn seconds.

[Morat20]

Im not sure how you figure. With the pure amount of low slots a domi has (for tanking), the drone bay to kill ANYTHING (DPS), the grid to fit what ever guns you what (large, medium), and the Myrmi doesn't get a damage bonus on the guns either. With the Myrmi having a 75m3 bandwidth now, it is 3/5th the damage it used to be. Domi has 5 mids so you can run a AB and 4 x Cap rechargers. In the lows put in a large or 2x medium armor rep (if you cant fit a large), a couple faction specific hardeners, and basically take a piss while your drones rape the universe. All for just 20 mil more than a myrm. Insurance payout on a Domi is very big as well. Variations would be using a Mid for Drone Navigation Link (extra drone speed) or the Dontrol Augmentation (or w/e ) in the high slot for more drone rape range.

If you are heavy gunnery and kinda shitty drone skills, i'd recommend a brutix. 7 turret hardpoints and a 50m3 drone bay to boot, with an armor rep bonus and a decent price tag.

What about those of us with amazing fucking drone skills (DI 5/5, Gallente Drone Specialization 3 or 4/5, and every other drone skill that's not specialist at 4/5 or 5/5) but whose gun skills stopped around "Small Hybrid turrets". :)

Myrm or Domi for L3s?

[dwindlehop]

If you're using T2 drones, I bet both are overkill anyway since you do so much damage. But hey, IANAMR.

[Morat20]

If you're using T2 drones, I bet both are overkill anyway since you do so much damage. But hey, IANAMR.

Hell yeah I use T2 drones. It means that I can kill BC spawns before they get close enough to even fire their guns. (I am a firm believer in overkill, death at a distance, and not having to click too many buttons).

I've been considering using EVE's Time Card thing to purchase ISK, so I can play around with Myrms and Domis with less worries. I've spent so much on skill books and playing with buy orders that affording a BS is a bit of a hassle, and even a Myrm with cheap T1 fittings would be an expensive loss.

[Slayerik]

Domi!!!!!!

They nerfed the Myrmidon. The DPS on a domi with skills like yours will be just sick. And you can tank like a mofo, especially if you use a high slot or 2 for a heavy NOS for overkill cap recharge.

Eve fitting tool is great, check it out!

[Teleku]

Just got myself a Raven last night myself.  Going to test the waters and get use to it by running L3 missions (could do almost all of them fine in my BC), then jump to L4 missions when I'm comfortable.  How exactly do you counter EW in the missions?  Most of the PvE ship set up recommendations don't really have any that I can see.  Mainly just stuff that increases your shield resistances and your damage/range.  They usually throw a scrambler or a target painter in there as well to try to handle tackling frigates.  Is there a better way to go about it?  Probably need to train up my support skills as well....

Actually, if any of you could link/post a L4 mission Raven set up you feel is good/proven, I would appriciate it ;).  Do not want to lose the damn thing.

[Endie]

Just got myself a Raven last night myself.  Going to test the waters and get use to it by running L3 missions (could do almost all of them fine in my BC), then jump to L4 missions when I'm comfortable.  How exactly do you counter EW in the missions?  Most of the PvE ship set up recommendations don't really have any that I can see.  Mainly just stuff that increases your shield resistances and your damage/range.  They usually throw a scrambler or a target painter in there as well to try to handle tackling frigates.  Is there a better way to go about it?  Probably need to train up my support skills as well....

Actually, if any of you could link/post a L4 mission Raven set up you feel is good/proven, I would appriciate it ;).  Do not want to lose the damn thing.

From memory, for L4 missions i use variations on this:

High

6xArbalest launchers
and either:
Salvager/tractor
or, for hard missions
Medium nos, small nos (they work the old, pre-nerf way for NPCs)

Mid

Invuln II
2 rat-specific IIs (one of which is photon scattering II unless they really don't do EM)
T2 XL Shield booster
T2 Shield boost amplifier
Cap recharger for easier missions, Cap Booster for deadly ones, sometimes an afterburner for cakewalks or Recon mission series

Low

Damage Control II
PDS II
PDS II
BCS II
BCS II

Drones
Hammerheads unless the rats really tank Therm well.  I rarely use hammerhead IIs because they are dumb and rats pop them

Rigs
Capacitor recharge x 2
Capacitor Capacity x 1

[Polysorbate80]

I've always gone Cruise Raven for missions, they do less DPS against the battleships but aren't totally gimped against the frigates.  As in, I can actually shoot down frigates without popping out the drones on those missions where the drones will aggro everything.  Plus, no need for an AB to get into torpedo range.

Guristas EW is screwy, NPCs don't play by the rules for jamming.  Expect to be jammed for 20 seconds or so right at the start of any engagement--won't always happen but it's pretty frequent.  After that, it's fairly sporadic and I've got the drones out chewing on things by then anyway.  I don't even try to avoid it, I just use the unexpected pauses to reload the launchers.

There's at least one other batch of NPCs (can't recall which) that use Sensor Dampeners, it's less annoying since a sensor booster does help and the NPCs don't stick at extreme range.  I always run with a SB II loaded, so it doesn't take any time to refit, and I just wind up having to clear the frigs/cruisers before I can keep the battleships in my targeting range.

Some other NPCs will pop up a status bar that says "miscellaneous" but damned if I can even tell what they're trying to do to me.

My personal mission Raven (owned for almost 2 years now) uses:
Highs- 6 Cruise Launcher IIs, one drone link augmentor (boost drone range) and an auto-targeting system I (+2 max targets locked)
Mids- XL Shield Booster II, T2 EM/Thermal/Kinetic Resistance Amplifiers, an Invulnerabiltity Field II and a Sensor Booster II
Low-2 Ballistic Control System II,2 Power Diagnostic Unit II, one Damage Control II
Resists wind up at EM 66, Explosive 76, Kinetic 79, and Thermal 72

Most people would go with active hardeners instead of the passive resistance amplifiers, and tailor them for the rats they're fighting so they have room for a Shield Boost Amplifier as well, but I'm lazy.  I hate swapping modules around between missions, so I just omni-tank all the time.  Plus, I don't have a big resist hole on those rare occasions someone catches me flying it out in low-sec.  This is with shield tanking skills all at 4 or 5, though, if yours are lower, active may be better for you.

Others would throw in a third BCU instead of the Damage Control, but I'd rather have the extra resists than the little bit of extra damage from the BCU (which are subject to diminishing returns)

[IainC]

How exactly do you counter EW in the missions?  Most of the PvE ship set up recommendations don't really have any that I can see. 

My ewar countermeasures are t2 drones to kill the small stuff as fast as possible. Any frigate sized vessel with a bounty of 30k is a webber/scrambler. Any frigate sized vessel worth more than 17k probably is a webber. Kill them first and kill them at a distance, then you can cruise the rest of the stage.

Jammers are annoying but as long as you can lock them long enough to send some Ogre II loving their way then they stop being a problem really fast.