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Author Topic: Your Top 10 MMOs  (Read 245572 times)
eldaec
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Reply #350 on: December 29, 2007, 09:51:56 AM

Quote
I never played DOAC so I have a question about the game.  How was the world constructed?  There were 3 factions correct?  I'm curious to see how the world was shaped with pvp zones etc.

There were 3 realms, PvE and RvR were completely seperate areas in each realm, you had to pass through an impregnable border keep to get from your pve realm into RvR.

RvR in each realm was a single non-instanced area, 4 continuous 'zones' in each realm.

Just beyond the impregable border keeps of doom (2 entrances to RvR per realm) you'd have the relic keeps. These are large relic keeps used to house relics that were the ultimate objective of the game. Taking a relic keep would require a raid sized force, you're talking 50+ people.

Beyond the relic keeps you have half a dozen normal keeps, these take about 2 groups + as many groups as the defence can muster.

To get from one area to another you go to your border keep, and wait for the wizards to teleport you to other friendly keeps, according to a supply chain system, or you can run to the shore of your realm and boat across to the enemy realm.

Alternatively there were various sneaky routes through dungeons between RvR zones, but they were only practical for small groups of players who all knew wtf they were doing.



Map of RvR zones:

<damn you EA anti-leeching tech>

I gather there's an island in the sea these days that you can also stop and fight over.

Link to the realm war status showing the live state of keeps and whatnot on a server:

http://guilds.camelotherald.com/realms/index.php?server=Iseult&realm=&v=
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 04:12:13 AM by eldaec »

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Reply #351 on: December 29, 2007, 09:57:05 AM

I never played DOAC so I have a question about the game.  How was the world constructed?  There were 3 factions correct?  I'm curious to see how the world was shaped with pvp zones etc.
There were 3 'Homeland' areas which were large PvE zones, one for each realm. Only members of that realm could go there. Expansions added new PvE zones which were also limited to members of the relevant realm. The PvP areas were accessible in a variety of ways from the homeland areas but were a separate zone. The main PvP area was the Frontier which was 3 large landmasses separated by navigable oceans. There were separate level limited battlegrounds as well which you could only reach by teleporting to and which weren't a contiguous part of the world map. None of the PvP content was instanced, all of it - including the battlegrounds - was an open world environment.

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Soukyan
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Reply #352 on: December 29, 2007, 10:08:40 AM

RvR and keeps for the uberwin?

Yes. Because the only real gripe that I hear most often cited is the PvE portion of the game. RvR was and is an awesome implementation of PvP gameplay. I hope that Warhammer Online is DAoC 2.


Prior to the Frontiers expansion, there were no oceans between realms &em; just one huge landmass. The Trials of Atlantis expansion made heavy use of boats and water. IIRC, you could also do ship to ship battle in Frontiers, but I never did.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 10:12:16 AM by Soukyan »

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Kiste
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Reply #353 on: December 29, 2007, 10:26:26 AM

1) EverQuest
2) World of Warcraft
3) EVE Online
4) DAoC
5) EverQuest 2
6) Anarchy Online
7) Ultima Online
8) Vanguard
9) Dungeons and Dragons Online
10) Meridian59
Tmon
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Reply #354 on: December 29, 2007, 12:46:05 PM

1) UO
2) WoW
3) SWG
4) LOTR
5) DAOC
6) EQ
7) AO
8) DDO
9) AC
Wasted
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Reply #355 on: December 29, 2007, 02:24:10 PM

1 - Eve - haven't played it in a long time and the game is far from perfect but for the scope of the game and in the hope that more games will copy some of its features this gets the top place.
2 - WoW - for most time /played, the polish and the fact that it is popular and accessible enough that I could actually join a guild with enough players in my timezone to be able to raid and do all those group type things.
3 - EQ2 - for being the game that I am playing and enjoying at the moment, and for the way they improved the game since launch.
4 - AO - I liked the community, I loved the world design, and because I can forgive the stupid little ships you can fly (Yamaha's? its been a few years).
5 - Meridian 59 - Another game where I loved the world design.
6 - Starport - not sure if this counts but its a fun game - and I cant think of anything else at the moment that I have played and actually deserves points.

thaildellewyn
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Reply #356 on: December 30, 2007, 03:34:12 AM

I came up with 10 games that were fun or important in their development, flawed as they may have been.

1 Word of Warcraft - No other MMO Comes close to the polished and balanced qualty of WoW, and more the pitty really

2 LotRo - It's Pretty, it's entertaining, and it's not WoW...  That's doing pretty good.

3 Everquest - 3D!  HOW COOL!!!  Once you've played EQ you pretty much know how to play anything that came after.

4 Everquest 2 - Played once, quit, then came back, the dev work has really made this game post production.

5 Motorcity Online - This was fun... but I love racing games...  I miss you MCO

6 City of Heroes/Villains - Amazing Customization, but it got very repetitive very quickly....  how many old lady purses can you really save?

7 UO - Graphic MUD?  Where do I sign up?  *A truely landmark game*

8 Final Fantasy XI - great IP, but got frustrated by the grouping requirement.

9 D&DO - Great IP, decent working of the rules, but the grouping requirement killed me.

10 DAOC - Dark Age of Content (at least when I played up to level 50 as a bard)



and a list of 5 that I played that made me want to shoot myself in the face...  yet kept playing anyway...

  Eve - My copy was broken, the boring option was stuck in the ON position. mine mine mine mine mine mine mine
  Horizons - Not quite as bad as SWG?  Why can't I swim?
  SWG - maintenence on factories, houses, etc!? I already have a job...  aren't games supposed to be fun?
  AO - Please stop shooting me through the damn walls.... please? fixed in a patch, but too late.
  Matrix Online - So bad I don't even know where to start.  I spent most of my time admiring my own shoes to cut down on lag.
Horik
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Reply #357 on: December 30, 2007, 10:11:12 AM

1- City of Heroes
2- Everquest
3- World of Warcraft
4- Anarchy Online
5- Asheron's Call
6- Everquest 2
7- Lord of the Rings Online
8- Guild Wars
9- Shadowbane
10- Minions of Mirth

My choices were simply based on how long I paid for the game (for the subscription-based ones). Voting with my wallet and whatnot.
Sairon
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Reply #358 on: December 31, 2007, 04:33:31 PM

1) Anarchy Online - No kidding, it was my first MMO with some $$$ in production budget and it held me for a very long time
2) World of Warcraft - The last MMO I really got addicted to, even if it only was for a few months
3) Shadowbane - I can stand a lot of crap if there's something decent underneath it, the fact that I love depth in character customization also helps it
4) DAoC - It's a great game, I jumped it a bit late in its life though, would probably be higher otherwise
5) Asherons Call 2 - Even with all its faults AC2 is one of the more intresting and innovative diku experiences, this actually had some potential
6) Astonia - It took my MMO virginity, it was very lite but had some good things going for it

I consider these 6 the ones worth mentioning of all the MMOs I've played, most likely missed a few though.
Belle Elegant
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Reply #359 on: December 31, 2007, 06:55:24 PM

I tend to remember the MMOs that I have played for a reason that seems to be rather different.  This is why:

1. EQ.  It was the game that pretty much introduced my to my future husband.  That and my sister.

2. DAoC.  Since we lived 1200 miles away from each other, this is how we stayed in touch.  Ventrilo and Darkness Falls brings back great memories.

3.  EQ2.  This is about the time we moved in together and eventually ended up leading a guild on Antonia Bayle.  Never again will I get involved in that.  I have a full time job, thank you.

4.  WoW.  During our time in that game we got married. 

5.  LOTRO.  A continuance of our online legacy.  Both of us got bored after a while.

I am sure we tried other MMOs, like Guild Wars, but not long enough to make an impact. 
cbh66
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Reply #360 on: December 31, 2007, 11:10:58 PM

1.Puzzle Pirates

2.City of Heroes/Villains

3.Guild Wars

4.World of Warcraft

5.Star Wars Galaxies
stark
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Reply #361 on: January 02, 2008, 01:00:25 PM

1. City of Heroes/Villians
2. Planetside
3. Earth and Beyond
4. Final fantasy XI
5. World of Warcraft
6. Dungeons & Dragons Online
7. Auto Assault
8. Guild Wars
9. Everquest 2
10. EVE
WayAbvPar
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Reply #362 on: January 02, 2008, 03:19:41 PM

Quote
7. Auto Assault

 ACK!

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Draegan
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Reply #363 on: January 03, 2008, 01:33:10 PM

 ACK! ACK!
PracticalM
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Reply #364 on: January 03, 2008, 04:24:29 PM

1. Puzzle Pirates  - No stat boosting items, cooperative play, strong player economy, little grind, could use less poker though

2. Eve  -  love the economic game

3. A Tale in the Desert - game moves to an ending

4. Dark Age of Camelot - Realm versus Realm

5. Maple Story - Free to play, 2D is fun
stark
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Reply #365 on: January 04, 2008, 09:02:11 AM

Slayerik
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Reply #366 on: January 04, 2008, 09:23:54 AM

Play nice kids.

Props to the number one delurker thread of all time!

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WayAbvPar
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Reply #367 on: January 04, 2008, 09:44:24 AM


Did you ever play it? I beta tested AA, so I know from what I speak.

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
fuser
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Reply #368 on: January 04, 2008, 01:04:28 PM

The trailing number is order of where most of my /played time has been spent

WoW - I think the biggest thing that stands out for me is the amazing light client, totally customizable UI and not a half ass scripting language. But the game has no community for me besides my RL friends. (2)
EQ2 - A decent game but my god I'm just getting to a point where the world doesn't look like total ass on my PC with the settings turned up. Last time I played it was so lifeless and so few people scattered over the world. (3)
Air Warrior - First real MMO game I played and really enjoyed, I think I still have a squad patch around somewhere. Multi players per aircraft (gunners on bombers) and other people have mentioned just chaos and fun with jeeps and bombers. (5)
Maplestory - Great little sidescroller that I usually fire up and play still once a week, and its coming to Nintendo DS (6)
FFXI - I really liked the job system, art work, world, and the playonline features the grind killed it for me. (4)
EQ1 - Probably the game with the most /played time but my god there were so many problems, the "social" aspect (read force grouping) of this game has never been reproduced. (1)
ATiTD - I really like the concept and community but the UI kills the game for me. (9)
EvE - I tried this game in many stints but my god it's so tedious to get to anything interesting I'd rather just read about it. (8)
MxO - Played the beta up till release then promptly uninstalled and never played again. Which resulted in me wishing I could shoot a red riot in the general vicinity of person responsible for breaking my Windows install. My friends computer was spared post release but it still was horrible. (7)
Vanguard/Second Life - The total sandbox features are amazing but leads to a downfall of the UI and performance. It's bad but at least I can use it to fill slot ten instead of Vanguard. (10)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 01:06:14 PM by fuser »
WayAbvPar
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Reply #369 on: January 04, 2008, 03:41:03 PM

Quote
Air Warrior - First real MMO game I played and really enjoyed, I think I still have a squad patch around somewhere. Multi players per aircraft (gunners on bombers) and other people have mentioned just chaos and fun with jeeps and bombers. (5)

I really wish I would have gotten into that one...I have heard great things. Wasn't the pricing plan ridiculously spendy?

When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM

Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood

Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
Venkman
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Reply #370 on: January 04, 2008, 04:14:12 PM

It's not that I don't like EQ remakes. (I'm playing EQ2 now) But the "My Life for Aiur" types here talk like it's popular because it's good.

You of all people should know that's not true. It's popular because it retreads the shame shit every Diku before it has, just with better polish than before. That doesn't make it good. That makes it just that, a polished retread. Long on production value, short on substance. If that's what you want, go nuts. But don't act like it's the goddamned robot jesus.

Why can't people actually think something is good even if you don't. I never got that, the need to decry something just because you (not specifically) didn't like it. Sometimes I think people do it just to try and not conform, like that shit still matters on it's own.

Like it or not. Others do, and they're sheared for wool either.
fuser
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Reply #371 on: January 04, 2008, 04:49:29 PM

Quote
Air Warrior - First real MMO game I played and really enjoyed, I think I still have a squad patch around somewhere. Multi players per aircraft (gunners on bombers) and other people have mentioned just chaos and fun with jeeps and bombers. (5)

I really wish I would have gotten into that one...I have heard great things. Wasn't the pricing plan ridiculously spendy?

Very, had a bill on top of an AOL account ACK! got into the windows beta and ended up getting a bunch of time free awesome, for real

LK
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Reply #372 on: January 04, 2008, 04:51:49 PM

Quote
7. Auto Assault

 ACK!

How the hell can you put Auto Assault, something that tanked and is a "Me Too" of WoW design, in the same Top 10 list as WoW, and at roughly the same level?

More flies with  ACK! then confrontation? :P

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stark
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Reply #373 on: January 08, 2008, 12:06:48 PM

Got tired of waiting for update:

Based on 174 votes.

----- The top 10 -----

1180 pts. - World of Warcraft
696 pts. - City of Heroes/Villains
688 pts. - Dark Age of Camelot   
642 pts. - Ultima Online
582 pts. - EverQuest
546 pts. - Eve Online
506 pts. - EverQuest 2
453 pts. - Star Wars Galaxies
434 pts. - Lord of the Rings Online
293 Pts. - Asheron's Call

----- 11th to 20th -----

262 pts. - Planetside
258 pts. - Anarchy Online
256 pts. - Shadowbane
219 pts. - Guild Wars
137 pts. - A Tale in the Desert
131 pts. - Final Fantasy XI
119 pts. - Puzzle Pirates
98 pts. - Dungeons & Dragons Online   
89 pts. - Tabula Rasa   
80 pts. - Lineage 2

----- 21th to 30th -----

65 pts. - WWII Online
63 pts. - Asheron's Call 2
58 pts. - Vanguard   
51 pts. - Horizons
46 pts. - Toontown
35 pts. - Earth & Beyond
32 pts. - Shadow of Yserbius
26 pts. - Neocron
26 pts. - Saga of Ryzom
26 pts. - Meridian 59 

----- 31th up -----

23 pts. - Air Warrior
20 pts. - 10six
19 pts. - Jumpgate
14 pts. - Auto Assault
13 pts. - Maple Story
12 pts. - Subspace
12 pts. - Dungeon Runners
12 pts. - Motor City Online
11 pts. - Phantasy Star Universe
9 pts. - Endless Ages
9 pts. - FlyFF   
8 pts. - Neverwinter Nights (AOL)   
8 pts. - Voyage Century Online   
8 pts. - Minions of Mirth
7 pts. - Ashen Empires (was: Dransik)
7 pts. - EverQuest Online Adventures
7 pts. - Lineage
7 pts. - Rappelz   
6 pts. - Underlight
6 pts. - Test Drive Unlimited
6 pts. - Astonia
5 pts. - Mankind
5 pts. - Phantasy Star Online
5 pts. - Furcadia
5 pts. - Runescape
5 pts. - The Matrix Online 
4 pts. - Dark 'n Light
2 pts. - Legend of Mir 3
1 pt. - Face of Mankind
1 pt. - Second Life


The last EDIT is up to fuser, reply #368.
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Reply #374 on: January 08, 2008, 12:07:57 PM

I find the bottom part of this list incredibly interesting.
LK
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Reply #375 on: January 08, 2008, 12:29:44 PM

Phantasy Star Online should be higher.  The problem is that it's not a Top 10 title.  It's a Top 20.

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Mrbloodworth
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Reply #376 on: January 08, 2008, 12:31:08 PM

I find the bottom part of this list incredibly interesting.

In what way? (cam'on, like you didn't think some one was going to ask.)

EDIT: You know what i would find interesting is if someone placed the development cost of each of those titles next to them. I see a lot of indi titles on the bottom of the list.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 12:33:55 PM by Mrbloodworth »

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Venkman
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Reply #377 on: January 08, 2008, 01:53:45 PM

Unless I'm completely wrong on how these results were tabulated, I feel it's indicative of two things:

1) the history some of us vets have. You can't complain like we complain without spending way too much in these games. So many eighter go by memory (which is affected by the amount of time spent in a game) or by /played (same deal). Some like to feel all anti-establishment, but we're not that far off from the genre itself imho.

2) the impact WoW has had on the size of the community here. All you need to do is look at the sub-forum with the most posts per day and in general.

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Reply #378 on: January 08, 2008, 01:56:31 PM

I'm pretty sure "Face of Mankind" and "Mankind" are the same game, not that it disrupts the rankings much.

Development cost would be a cool addition (not that we'd get accurate numbers).  Not so much for the top, but the bottom.  How much did Matrix Online spend to get 5 pts?

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Kamen
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Reply #379 on: January 08, 2008, 02:39:22 PM

Development cost would be a cool addition (not that we'd get accurate numbers).  Not so much for the top, but the bottom.  How much did Matrix Online spend to get 5 pts?

That would be interesting in a train wreck kind of way.  Here's another one - how much was the development cost of The Sims Online (TSO) by EA five years ago that didn't even get on the list at all?  It was one of the biggest developments for its day, if I remember correctly.
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #380 on: January 08, 2008, 03:16:56 PM

Development cost would be a cool addition (not that we'd get accurate numbers).  Not so much for the top, but the bottom.  How much did Matrix Online spend to get 5 pts?

That would be interesting in a train wreck kind of way.  Here's another one - how much was the development cost of The Sims Online (TSO) by EA five years ago that didn't even get on the list at all?  It was one of the biggest developments disappointments for its day, if I remember correctly.

there, fixed that for you!  smiley

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Snee
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Reply #381 on: January 08, 2008, 03:22:34 PM

1. Eve
(lost a year to it, nasty addictive but scary fun, I don't play anymore as it was an infinite timesink, but the unique feature that you can use in game currency to pay your subscription means my delegated training is still going)

2. CoH (Grindy, but had a nice immersion sweetspot, jumping over buildings was great... the defense nerf was annoying)

3. Vanguard (enjoying it for 3+ months now, suprisingly intricate combat, especially in groups. Beautiful world, interesting class selection. Improving, even under SOE)

4 Shattered Galaxy MMORTS from 2002 (2001?) Pure team PVP. shockingly intense at times.

5 NetMech. AC10's and jumpjets are never wrong, especially if you power down... wait for everyone to go past you and make a run at the reactor.

6. Ryzom. Designing your own spells? OMGWT... Supergrindy.

7 Horizons. be a flying dragon, make your own skills. ubercrafting. Occasionally a little grindy. (!)

8. Lotro Love the setting, monster play is a fabulous surprise, died on lack of character diversity and later level content

9. AO. robust and free after all these years.

10. NetTrek (1989) made college nearly impossible. Fucking Romulans.


Kail
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Reply #382 on: January 08, 2008, 03:27:14 PM

Phantasy Star Online should be higher.  The problem is that it's not a Top 10 title.  It's a Top 20.

It doesn't feel like an MMO to me.  Even Guild Wars seemed to have more of a world than PSO.

Also, it depends on the version.  Original PSO was a fucking nightmare, between the greifers and the glitches and their goddamn "anti-cheating measures".
Venkman
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Reply #383 on: January 08, 2008, 05:02:18 PM

A while ago I put the then-known MMOs on a scale from -5 to 5, where extreme left was open virtual world (SL being that extreme) and extreme right being an entirely contrived linear directed-content experience (EQ1). Then I overlayed a bubble chart based on the population sizes (going only by MMOGcharts for lack of anything else centralized) and was going to go 3D with development costs.

Trouble is, the development costs would have mostly been made up, as in the years size, the population sizes are stretching ever closer to guesswork. These are two bits of proprietary info no company really needs to clearly communicate to the general public so that everyone can disseminate and critique, mock and rant about. And they were mostly only accurate when a game was on the rise anyway.

Further, the business models are all wonky now, from sub-based to xtrans to advertisements to all three. And comparing games of different means and models is almost ludicrous.

To JoeTF's point, LoTRO's monthly fee collection from a few hundred thousand players is probably a lot more per-anum revenue generated than something like Maplestory or Audition with their scores of millions of accounts. But on the flipside, the latter two games cost single-digit millions of dollars to the probably-well-beyond-$35mil of LoTRO. So there's a lot more to pay off on the front end, and a lot more to eventually lose on the back, particularly with Turbine's continued practice of looking like they're constantly in crunch-development mode, based on their content releases.

So getting an easy-to-digest snapshot of the total genre at any given time is pretty much impossible. What you get instead is the sort of bracketing at both an end-user and business level. Things like AAA DVD-ROM sub-based games are all compared against WoW (previously EQ1 or L1 depending on region). Flash-based freebie kids worlds are up against Club Penguin and the pending Disney worlds. "Indie" titles are a catchall for everything from Sherwood Dungeon to SL to Eve, which even for all its accounts is still largely considered an outlier by the bigger companies looking to get into this space, either with one big game or a bunch of little ones. And then there's the ongoing desire to build a library simply by localizing Korean stuff, with xtrans. And finally there's the gigantic potential of both the Chinese and Indian markets that only now people seem to be wondering about.
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Reply #384 on: January 08, 2008, 07:05:15 PM

Stark, I am impressed.

I thought you needed to hail from Italy to be a world class loser or timewaster like me.
Think you are almost ready to join me in my Lineage 2 crusade...  awesome, for real

Thank you, by the way.

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