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Author Topic: Your Top 10 MMOs  (Read 245576 times)
Margalis
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Reply #245 on: December 20, 2007, 11:53:52 PM

I found FFXI to be the worst first 20 minutes of MMORPG ever. The graphics were hideous, navigating the menus was a nightmare, click to move, etc. I spent more time installing/subscribing than playing. Granted, I didn't play EQ1 for very long either, but that was a computer/connection speed issue on my end.

You can click to move in FFXI? I've been playing on and off since release and I didn't know that.

The graphics in FFXI are quite nice, all the models are well done and the armor looks much better than in many very recent games. They did a good job making clothing look truly weighty and three dimensional and the animation is great.

First 20 minutes I'll grant. After I stopped playing for a while I went back and it took me 20 minutes to just *remember* how to do anything.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 11:57:34 PM by Margalis »

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Azazel
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Reply #246 on: December 21, 2007, 02:27:58 AM

Having FFXI be under EQ1 proves you people are morons.  All of you.

Don't be such a fuckwit.

Not all of us have played FFXI. I haven't, which kind of disqualifies me from putting it in any of my /played lists.

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Tchrin
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Reply #247 on: December 21, 2007, 02:51:10 AM

This a tough list to do but...

#1 A Tale in the Desert  --- I played it from Alpha through to Tale2, ran the biggest fansite and the official forums. Great game, and fantastic community, but too much of a time sink for real life.
#2 World of Warcraft --- Despite Blizzard's continued efforts to dumb the main game down even further, and concentrate most of its resources on developing raid content, its still a great game.
#3 Ultima Online --- My first love (in MMOG terms), too many great memories to recount here.
#4 Dark Age of Camelot --- DAoC was my introduction to being a member of a  big active guild
#5 Anarchy Online --- Some good ideas, and generally good fun, but I didn't find the community all that great.
#6 Lineage2 --- a good solid back to basics MMOG, sadly ruined by gold farmers screwing the economy.

After which they all fade into mediocrity and don't deserve any points (IMO) so I'm not nominating any others :)
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Reply #248 on: December 21, 2007, 02:59:10 AM

From a certain point of view one could say that NO major MMO can be worse than one of its "parents", especially when those are 3 or more years old.
From another, sometimes the improvements are just not enough to make a difference especially with people who do not care about graphics, which are not true improvements and much more the sign of time passing and visual techonolgies getting easier to mold.

Add to that that sometimes there are not just improvements but some steps back too, and it will be easier to understand why people give more credit to the old stuff than to the supposed "new" one.

Monika T'Sarn
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Reply #249 on: December 21, 2007, 03:33:38 AM

1) DAoC - RvR is still unmatched as the best way to do pvp
2) WoW - Top quality, quest-based leveling, good raiding. To much grinding later on
3) Shadowbane  - Good pvp, ruined by bugs
4) SWG - Just fun because it was so unbalanced, ruined by patches
5) UO - Faction wars were great fun for me
6) Lotro - Well done WoW-lite, just not enough endgame
7) Guildwars - Nice 8 vs 8 pvp
8) Everquest 2 - Well done pve game, but pvp didnt have enough purpose
9) Lineage 2 - Nice sieges, really stupid pvp, bad pve, but so pretty
10) Everquest - My first 3d mmorpg, the imersion was great because of it

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Reply #250 on: December 21, 2007, 03:54:45 AM

That's Monika T'Sarn. Raph's blog This thread sure is bringing in a collection of people significant in MMORPG history.
Njal
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Reply #251 on: December 21, 2007, 04:51:41 AM

Bah I remember Monika from her killing me in Shadowbane. Chased her across the desert a few times, but used she killed me after getting the drop on me.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2007, 05:02:57 AM by Njal »
Auz
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Reply #252 on: December 21, 2007, 05:49:44 AM

If you can make it to Divide, then the game really begins to kick in with the Starship Trooper moments.
Periods of training interspersed with long diatribes on how wonderful war is even when you have no limbs left Starship Troopers? Or Dougie Howser mind-melding with a bug Starship Troopers?

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Reply #253 on: December 21, 2007, 06:19:37 AM


5.  Lineage (SHUDDUP!!!)


Lineage the first?!

Yes. Because it is the AWESOME!

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Reply #254 on: December 21, 2007, 06:23:53 AM

That's Monika T'Sarn. Raph's blog This thread sure is bringing in a collection of people significant in MMORPG history.

I loved that game. Why? Because my Krayt Tissue FWG-5 guns did more damage than her newbie light saber. Everything was so, so, so, so wrong. And felt so, so, so right. Do you put commas between so...s?
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Reply #255 on: December 21, 2007, 07:59:12 AM

1) WoW - they hit the magic formula that appeals to as many playstyles as possible. Been there since beta - no end in sight.
2) LotRO - it's my "don't feel like playing WoW right now" fallback. Great story, gameplay and complexity. Artwork could be much better - preferably more artisitc insted of realistic. The founder's pricing was especially appealing, else I wouldn't have purchased it for a part-time game.
3) UO - played 7.5 years - not sure why. No real connection to the Ultima series (which I loved), EA ruined it and killed any evolution, McFarlane's content went too sci-fi, appeal to the Asian market (ninja, samurai) derailed the content but the uncontrolled PKs in the first years prevented UO from becoming and staying the #1 MMO (I knew several people in RL that left for this one reason). Granted UO was the first in many, many aspects so they taught MMOs companies what not to do as well as what to do.
4) DAoC - beautiful, good crafting system but the grind byond lvl 10 was mind-numbing and focus on racial PvP (for no reason) ruined it for me.
5) SWG (pre NGE) - the #1 hands-down, most successful sci-fi franchise in history... and Sony blows chunks all over it
6) D&DO - great artwork and interface, but too much "one mistake and you're dead... again" to be enjoyable. Too much reliability on grouping especially since it's hard to get a group of your level with such a low population.
7) AC - good basic MMO, but not enough depth. Excellent PvP switch.
8) AO - Creative but nothing special.
9) Shadowbane - forgettable
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Reply #256 on: December 21, 2007, 08:12:15 AM

It actually wasn't a terrible game if you were, say, coming right off of Diablo 2 closed servers, or UO. Yes, it was a different game, but I didn't find it anymore or less grindy than early-stages UO. I did find it way generic on enough levels to chase me back to EQ1 and the followup Western-Fantasy 3D DIKUs. Man was I a fanboi for L2 though, literally camped the NC booth for many tradeshows... until it launched. And AA.
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Reply #257 on: December 21, 2007, 08:25:44 AM

Just updated. 134 votes cast. I think a good deadline could be the release day of PotBS. So I won't have to deal with the moaners wanting to include it in the list since day 1.

P.S: Asheron's Call made it in the top 10, at Planetside's expenses.

waylander
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Reply #258 on: December 21, 2007, 09:01:55 AM

1. Ultima Online
2. Guild Wars
3. Dark Age of Camelot
4. City of Villains
5. Asheron's Call
6. Shadowbane
7. World of Warcraft
8. Neverwinter Nights - circa 1994
9. Everquest
10. Star Wars - 1st year of release

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Ravandor
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Reply #259 on: December 21, 2007, 09:11:58 AM

Based on /played

1. WoW
2. FFXI
3. CoH/V
4. Eve
5. SWG (pre-CU)

Nothing else made it past the free trial.
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Reply #260 on: December 21, 2007, 11:30:38 AM

#1 World of Warcraft - it got so much right from the start
#2 EQ1 - for the time, it was awesome.  I played for nearly 7 years.
#3 DAoC - EQ1 done right at the beginning, RvR was a blast, too many sweeping changes to classes as the game went on
#4 City of Heroes - good clean fun
#5 Anarchy Online - enjoyed this, but it didn't capture me
#6 Planetside - sometimes great, sometimes terrible, it could have been so much more
#7 UO - fun for awhile
#8 Shadowsbane - nope, not my cup of tea
#9 Horizons - ugh
#10 Lineage - ugh
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Reply #261 on: December 21, 2007, 11:49:14 AM

Just updated. 134 votes cast. I think a good deadline could be the release day of PotBS. So I won't have to deal with the moaners wanting to include it in the list since day 1.

P.S: Asheron's Call made it in the top 10, at Planetside's expenses.
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LK
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Reply #262 on: December 21, 2007, 11:49:33 AM

Just updated. 134 votes cast. I think a good deadline could be the release day of PotBS. So I won't have to deal with the moaners wanting to include it in the list since day 1.

P.S: Asheron's Call made it in the top 10, at Planetside's expenses.

Guess I'll have to vote then.

1. World of Warcraft
2. Planetside
3. City of Heroes
4. EVE
5. Final Fantasy XI
6. A Tale in the Desert
7. Puzzle Pirates
8. Ultima Online
9. Earth and Beyond
10. Anarchy Online

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cevik
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Reply #263 on: December 21, 2007, 11:49:49 AM

Right now your list is biased towards popularity.  You should take every game that has over X number of votes (say X=10 or X=5) and divide the point total for that game by the number of votes that game has received, it will make your list much less biased towards WoW and much more indicative of how people are voting.  For example, say WoW has 20 votes and received an average score of 7, for 140 points, but EQ2 has 10 votes and received an average score of 9 for 90 points.  Currently you'd rate WoW above EQ2 (140 vs 90) but if you make the score averages (total/votes, or 140/20 and 90/10) EQ2 would move above WoW (9 vs 7)..

Just a suggestion..

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Reply #264 on: December 21, 2007, 11:53:10 AM

1. Lord of the Rings Online - It just has it all; interesting classes, useful crafting, immersing storyline, interesting systems.  No real PvP though.
2. Everquest 2 - The fight between this an LOTRO was close in my ranking, but it lost out because LOTRO is more time friendly.
3. World of Warcraft - It's very well done, it's just not really a challenge.
4. Tabula Rasa - Though this position is only tentative with how long it's been out, this is a really fun MMO, done in a very different manner.
5. Dungeon Runners - Guilty pleasure... Diablo by another name.  But well done.
6. Vanguard - I really like the systems and such.  I just hate crashing.
7. City of Heroes/Villains - I like it, but it's just simple.  Not necessarily easy, but simple.
8. The Matrix Online - I love the license, the systems, and the environment.  It's just that the city is really empty- of PCs and NPCs.
9. DDO - I like it, and it's well done.  There are just things missing that you have in other MMOs, and I feel their loss.
10. Star Wars Galaxies - Pre-NGE would be higher.  But well... we won't re-open that wound.

And yes, I paid for and played each of these at least a month, and in addition to these Lineage 2 (love the graphics and characters, but too grindy), Auto Assault (who doesn't love car wars?  But they skimped on certain areas, and just as I can't get into Eve being a ship, I cant get into AA being a car), RF Online (I know... but I bought it before there were reviews!), and Guild Wars (like it, but just can't get into it...)
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Reply #265 on: December 21, 2007, 11:53:15 AM

Jesus, this thread is really bringing them back from the dead. How the hell are ya, Cevik?

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Monika T'Sarn
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Reply #266 on: December 21, 2007, 12:08:14 PM

That's Monika T'Sarn. Raph's blog This thread sure is bringing in a collection of people significant in MMORPG history.

Wasn't the thread that brought me, I'm 'here' since the LTM days lurking. I just had to add my list when Sanya recommended it. Nice to know my 15 minutes of fame haven't been totally forgotten yet smiley .

Bah I remember Monika from her killing me in Shadowbane. Chased her across the desert a few times, but used she killed me after getting the drop on me.

I think I remember you, you were a  Shadowclan scout right ? I like being remembered for this much more then for SWG ! Dagger scout was so much fun.

I loved that game. Why? Because my Krayt Tissue FWG-5 guns did more damage than her newbie light saber. Everything was so, so, so, so wrong. And felt so, so, so right. Do you put commas between so...s?

Exactly my feelings ! SWG was good for me because it was so bad. Riding the wave of imbalances you could have great fun for a while. From animal handler ( at least I never used grauls, I was a spider guy), to commandos with AE death by wounds, to an uber-buffed defense stacker swordsman being able to melee krayt dragons one on one - great fun.

Monika T'Sarn
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cevik
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Reply #267 on: December 21, 2007, 12:10:18 PM

Jesus, this thread is really bringing them back from the dead. How the hell are ya, Cevik?

I'm doing great, good to see you are still alive (and hopefully doing well!) :)

I guess I better post a list of MMOGs now since I'm now spamming the thread with useless drivel:

1.  WoW
2.  Shadowbane (with a few less bugs and quarterly server wipes, this would have been number 1 by far)
3.  Everquest II (not at release, but now)
4.  DAoC
5.  CoH
6.  Everquest
7.  LoTRO

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Reply #268 on: December 21, 2007, 12:35:47 PM

1. World of Warcraft
2. City of Heroes/VIllians
3. Shadowbane
4. Puzzle Pirates
5. Ultima Online
6. Star Wars: Galaxies
7. Everquest
8. Meridian 59
9. Eve Online
10. Second Life
sidereal
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Reply #269 on: December 21, 2007, 12:58:02 PM

For example, say WoW has 20 votes and received an average score of 7, for 140 points, but EQ2 has 10 votes and received an average score of 9 for 90 points.  Currently you'd rate WoW above EQ2 (140 vs 90) but if you make the score averages (total/votes, or 140/20 and 90/10) EQ2 would move above WoW (9 vs 7)..

Just a suggestion..

I'm sympathetic to giving niche stuff more love, but I don't think an average system would be correctly reflective of peoples' feelings.  The problem is that the 10 people who didn't vote for EQ2 had a chance to, but intentionally left it off their list.  It's not like anyone's never heard of it.  I don't think you can discount their choice to leave it off from their lists, as if they never voted at all.

On the other hand, it'd be interesting to be able to know the difference between "I'm leaving it off because I never played it", and "I'm leaving it off because I played it".  An average score for a game among people who played it would tell you how much players loved something.  I suspect ATiTD is pretty beloved by the people who spent any time on it, though there aren't many of those. 

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Reply #270 on: December 21, 2007, 12:59:42 PM

10. Second Life

?

You can't just put Second Life on there and expect people not to notice! What was your Second Life like that it got listed?
cevik
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Reply #271 on: December 21, 2007, 01:04:28 PM

I'm sympathetic to giving niche stuff more love, but I don't think an average system would be correctly reflective of peoples' feelings.  The problem is that the 10 people who didn't vote for EQ2 had a chance to, but intentionally left it off their list.  It's not like anyone's never heard of it.  I don't think you can discount their choice to leave it off from their lists, as if they never voted at all.

Perhaps.

What I'd personally do is list the information in both forms..

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Reply #272 on: December 21, 2007, 01:15:06 PM

Partially by /played, and partially by how influential I think they are or should have been.

1.  Ultima Online
2.  World of Warcraft
3.  Asheron's Call
4.  Shadowbane
5.  Dark Age of Camelot
Kheotour
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Reply #273 on: December 21, 2007, 02:03:16 PM

1. Eve Online
2. World or Warcraft
3. City of Heros - Villains
4. EverQuest 2
5. Dark Age of Camelot
6. Guild Wars
7. Asheron's Call 2
8. EverQuest
9. Dungeons and Dragons Online

Those are all of the ones I have exp with.  I have likes and dislikes about all of them.  But the top three I keep coming back to. I have a current subscription to Eve and COH
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Reply #274 on: December 21, 2007, 02:24:11 PM

I noticed Asheron's Call 2 beat out Vanguard. That says alot about how shitty Vanguard must be. ( I loved AC1 and feel like AC2 is Turbine's biggest mistake so far as a company.)

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Reply #275 on: December 21, 2007, 02:46:47 PM

Noooo! Planetside!

Well, I guess it only appeals to people who are into FPS. :P

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Reply #276 on: December 21, 2007, 02:58:56 PM

1) DAoC
2) CoX
3) PS
4) ATitD
5) EVE
6) EQ2
7) Puzzle Pirates

There's nothing else I can stand to give points to.

I didn't explain my choices before, time to bore you now.

DAoC and ATitD come in mostly because the game mechanics positively helped build a realm community, and the case of daoc, did so despite a generic diku combat model and. Plus RvR is as good as casual MMOG PvP has got.

CoH for 3 things, the approach to character design (both recognising that players want to control what they look like, and also that this does mean faces, it means flashy colours and unique combinations identifyable at 50 yards), the combat mechanic itself, and the model for support characters. The last point about support characters is prpobably the most important, and I've only seen it equalled in EQ2. Support involves managing buffs, debuffs, and heals in an extremely active manner, in almost all MMOGs, support characters usually have the most decisions to make and least time to do it, but CoH manages to take it up another notch above what you get elsewhere and do so with glamour, flair, and fancy particle effects that support characters don't get in other games.

Planetside for showing we don't all have to cut and paste the comnbat model. Darniaq pointed out how everyone keeps moaning about dikus but puts them at the top of their lists. Almost the entire genre is diku, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that the best of the genre is diku. That doesn't mean we're happy that the whole genre is diku.

EVE for just looking so damn cool and bringing all the best stories onto message boards. Plus, no elves.

EQ2 for showing that if you beat a dead horse long enough, it really might get up and walk again. Plus for designing fun and active support characters almost as well as CoH did.

Puzzle Pirates because it made my Mum play for more than 30 seconds. Anything that can do that potential.


Things not on the list:

WoW. I really don't get WoW. I understand that it has decent production values, and I understand that there isn't anything outright broken, but it just seemed so unambitious when I played it that I quickly couldn't be bothered. There isn't one thing they've even tried to push beyond the norm. Granted most MMOGs try new things and at least half the things they try are spectacular failures, but elsewhere there usually at least a few features where you can see they've tried to innovate.

SWG. Ok, I get that the resource development model, and vendor model was cool at launch. BUT PISTOL DAMAGE DIDN'T STACK WITH RIFLE DAMAGE. The profession system felt like an incredibly grindy waste of time because of the absurd way most of the skills were top loaded into the mastery box. And obviously the slapstick NGE has been discussed elsewhere.

EQ, Guild Wars, both failed for me for the same reason, you simply can't exist outside a large guild, PLUS there is no good reason for large guilds to help newbies. It continues to amaze me that developers build games in a manner that fails to provide reasons for vets to help noobs.

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Reply #277 on: December 21, 2007, 03:20:24 PM



1. DDO - liked for it's differences, wish more had been done with it; still sub every now and again; needs more content
2. WoW - while i stopped playing at lvl 40, my 12 year old now has multiple level 70's; great game for teens or the casual :-p
3. CoH/Cov - character customization ftw!  Like the instancing; hated the grind
4. Lotro - different flavor WoW but too similar for me to sub long
5. EQ2 - played for a while, liked, but at the time ran like crap on my system; may give it another go
6. Shadowbane - enjoyed the beta much more than the retail; so much potential
7. EQ1 - easy to spot what I didn't like about it but got me in this genre and played for like 1.5 years; good timing
8. NWN1 - I had fun with it, despite it not truly being a MMO but damn if people didn't try to make it one
9. Fallen Age - never made it out of beta, but it had Slugs and i have a T Shirt damnit!
10. AC1 - liked for it's attempted differences in magic system and skills, even if the implementaion wasnt great



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Flood
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Reply #278 on: December 21, 2007, 04:18:33 PM

WOWInsider has a small blurb about this thread complete with link etc etc.

http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/12/21/breakfast-topic-wheres-wow/


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Reply #279 on: December 21, 2007, 04:25:14 PM

What the hell...

1) World of Warcraft (though the lichen has started to grow)
2) Ultima Online
3) City of Heroes
4) Everquest
5) Dark Age of Camelot
6) Dungeons and Dragons Online
7) Shadowbane
8) Everquest II
8) Asherons Call
10) Star Wars Galaxies

I would have put Wish in over SWG, but Wish never made it past the rabid goat stage.

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