Star Wars re-re-re-re-release

[HaemishM]

My eyes have not outgrown Star Wars. And Han shooting first is a pretty significant piece of character development.

Are we to go back over Citizen Kane and use Orson Welles CGI-ed up to show him explaining WTF Rosebud meant? Do we take all of Ray Harryhausen's movies and CGI them up to remove the silly little stop-motion effects? There's an artistry there that would be completely lost by adding CGI in to make them more "realistic." I'd hate to see the 1950's version of Sinbad digitially gussied up like some aging grandmother turning tricks.

[Zetleft]

Exactly, imo he's basically pissing on all those guys that started ILM in the first place by saying what they did is just not up to his 'high' standards anymore and should just be cut from the film.  Touchups are ok, what he is doing is not.  I saw the first special editions once and couldn't stand all the god damn cgi bull flying in front of the actors that I was trying to watch.   And I agree with Haem, Han shooting first pretty much set the tone for his entire character.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

Orson Welles lost his job (twice!) because he couldn't stop futzing around with movies. Every Welles film released was done so by a studio under threats to trashcan the entire production by "such-and-such date." Not a great example, but I know what you're talking about.

But I think the problem is that people treat Star Wars like it was Citizen Kane. Alert: its not. Its a campy, serialized formulaic, space opera that was forced to short-cut a great many things because of budgetary and technological limitations of the era.

Lucas sees the DVD release as a chance to make the movies he wanted to make, but couldn't because of budget and science.

Perfect example: the scene between Han and Jabba in IV was cut because it was originally filmed as a 'stand-in' scene that would later be redone with an animated Jabba. Because they couldn't make a believable puppet for the scene, it was dumped - and for the majority of film viewers, the character of Jabba was reduced to a twice referenced shadow, and thats for those who bothered to even remember him. The film suffered, because with Jabba reduced to an after-thought, you lose  track of Han Solo's motivation. He's not an intergalactic taxi driver - but he needs money and in a hurry - he takes this mission because he has to.

Adding the scene back in, with the technology to do it the way the story insists that it be done, is a great improvement to the film. It establishes Han's motivation in a completely different light: Han's not a money-grubbing thief and criminal. He needs the money to get out of some serious bad debt to a criminal agent. Without this scene, he's just a guy who takes advantage of desperate people who need to evade the authorities.

The problem I guess, is that people want him to be a criminal who helps other 'criminals' avoid the law, but the story never meant for you to establish him that way.

[HaemishM]

But I think the problem is that people treat Star Wars like it was Citizen Kane. Alert: its not. Its a campy, serialized formulaic, space opera that was forced to short-cut a great many things because of budgetary and technological limitations of the era.

You shut your damn dirty whore mouth!

I realize it is a cheesy, campy, serialized formulaic space opera. However, that doesn't mean it has to suck. The very fact that it didn't try to camp itself, or take itself too seriously is one of its charms.

I agree with you about the Jabba scene; deleted, already filmed scenes being inserted back in don't bother me. It's when he fucks with already established scenes for no good goddamn reason that I get stabby with it. Greedo shooting first really defused some of Han's edginess. Inserting Hayden Christensen was just a blatant pissing on the performance of the actor who originally played Anakin in RotJ. It's like actually inserting a giant pink bunny into Harvey; sure, Jimmy Stewart saw the bunny, but we didn't need to.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

Again, a flawed example: adding Roger Rabbit to Harvey radically changes the style and formula of the movie. It would ruin it.

But here's the problem: Han Solo isn't edgy. He's not a bad guy. He's an independant frieght hauler - he drives an 18wheel "Big Rig" back and forth from the Kessel system. If you want to get right down to it, he's a smuggler - his crime is hauling swag for a pirate syndicate, but at the first sign of trouble, does he go guns ablaze? no. He jettisons his load and hi-tails it out of there. He avoids violence. Shooting Greedo because he made a verbal threat isn't right for Han Solo.

[Shannow]

No, he shoots him because he knows that either Greedo will shoot him first or turn him over to Jabba.

woah I think I just levelled in geek with this post.

[naum]

Are we to go back over Citizen Kane and use Orson Welles CGI-ed up to show him explaining WTF Rosebud meant? Do we take all of Ray Harryhausen's movies and CGI them up to remove the silly little stop-motion effects? There's an artistry there that would be completely lost by adding CGI in to make them more "realistic." I'd hate to see the 1950's version of Sinbad digitially gussied up like some aging grandmother turning tricks.

George Lucas sez:

…I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it.

[HaemishM]

I say to George:

RETIRE, FUCKHEAD. WE LIKED WHAT HAPPENED WHEN YOU GOT LUCKY. LEAVE IT TO US. HALF-COMPLETED MEANS LESS FUCKED UP.

[Paelos]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

[eldaec]

The changes, on the whole, are pretty damn small.

And not worth much of a fuss over.

The Han shooting at the same time as Greedo is something of a pain, because it's the only change that seriously changes something. But honestly, the film doesn't stand or fall on the issue.

The addition of the Jabba scene in ep 4 could have been done better, simply by finding a way to get rid of the dumb 'Han steps on Jabba' moment (just leave Han out of shot for that second ffs).

Everything else is just cleaning up and fluff.

Bobba Fett's revoicing makes sense, and without it you have a continuity error.

The Anakin ghost scene equally I have no issue with, hell, I'd have considered even adding Qui Gon.

People are just pissed at GL because of tPM and AotC.

If tPM and AotC had been good films, noone would be complaining about the edits on these DVDs.

[Rasix]

If tPM and AotC had been good films, noone would be complaining about the edits on these DVDs.

We were complaining about these type of edits before TPM and AOTC even saw the light of day.  You know, he did fuck around with these films before the DVD release.  Han has now gone from shooting first, to second, to a tie.  

TPM and AOTC didn't make him a revisionist hack, he was well on the way there before.

[eldaec]

This I found amusing, GL on CNN explaining why he released the trilogy on DVD now, instead of a few years after Ep3....

Just because the market has shifted so dramatically. A lot of people are getting very worried about piracy. That has really eaten dramatically into the sales. It really just came down to, there may not be a market when I wanted to bring it out, which was like, three years from now. So rather than just sit by and watch the whole thing fall apart, better to bring it out early and get it over with.

I honestly don't know if this GL being incredibly stupid, or being incredibly cynical, and thinking "Hmm, prequels not going well, must ship original trilogy asap, just need a cover to explain why the change....".

[Rasix]

I thought he waited this long to release them on DVD because the stipulation in his divorce of his wife getting proceeds from Star Wars finally ran out.  Of course, perhaps that's just a rumor to propogate his evilness, but that's something that a remember seeing a while ago when DVDs were becoming more mainstream.

[Shannow]

Sidenote: Anyone see FOX's opening to the Yanks-Sox game last night? Basically it was one big add for the Star Wars DVD set. Made me throw up.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

The addition of the Jabba scene in ep 4 could have been done better, simply by finding a way to get rid of the dumb 'Han steps on Jabba' moment (just leave Han out of shot for that second ffs).

Just for clarification, in the unaltered scene, Jabba is just a fat pasty guy and Han walks around him. They used a computer to add the "hop on tail" moment because its cute. I chuckled.

[Paelos]

Sidenote: Anyone see FOX's opening to the Yanks-Sox game last night? Basically it was one big add for the Star Wars DVD set. Made me throw up.

Yeah I saw it, and the whole time I was thinking, man the nerds are going to have a fucking field day bitching about this.

Then I thought, wait, are the nerds even watching sports?

[AOFanboi]

Then I thought, wait, are the nerds even watching sports?

Statistics-heavy stuff like baseball, sure.

[Riggswolfe]

But here's the problem: Han Solo isn't edgy. He's not a bad guy. He's an independant frieght hauler - he drives an 18wheel "Big Rig" back and forth from the Kessel system. If you want to get right down to it, he's a smuggler - his crime is hauling swag for a pirate syndicate, but at the first sign of trouble, does he go guns ablaze? no. He jettisons his load and hi-tails it out of there. He avoids violence. Shooting Greedo because he made a verbal threat isn't right for Han Solo.

Actually he's not a Big Rig driver. He's a drug smuggler. This isn't just a nice guy driving boxes for Walmart. This is a hardcore criminal. He shot Greedo first because it was down to him or Greedo.

[HaemishM]

George Lucas is actually trying to convince someone that he really really believes there won't be a market for the original Star Wars films in 3 years because of... piracy? PIRACY?

George, hate to tell you this buddy. You've slapped the Star Wars logo on just about anything and its sold well in excess of what said merchandise without the logo would. You could LITERALLY put a turd from each of the original cast members in a vaccum-sealed box, label it "Star Wars Collector's Shit" and it would sell the fuck out. The franchise is almost 30 years old, and kids still have Star Wars bedsheets. Fuck, some ADULTS have Star Wars bedsheets. People are posting pictures on the Internet of their homebrewed Jawa outfits. Quotes from your movie are entrenched in the cultural lexicon. This ain't Battlestar Galatica, this is Star Wars.

Is he really going to try to tell us he is that out of touch with the market?

[Shannow]

Is he really going to try to tell us he is that out of touch with the market?

Did you really just ask that question?

[HaemishM]

I forgot. George Lucas is the same man who made Attack of the Clones.

[Miguel]

LEAVE IT TO US. HALF-COMPLETED MEANS LESS FUCKED UP.

Haemish, I have a sneaking suspicion that this quote is going to come back to haunt you during the next big MMOG release. :)

[HaemishM]

Well, look at DAoC. Half the content, much less server crashes and lag.

[Biobanger]

Well, that's pretty much true...

[Evil Elvis]

The addition of the Jabba scene in ep 4 could have been done better, simply by finding a way to get rid of the dumb 'Han steps on Jabba' moment (just leave Han out of shot for that second ffs).

Just for clarification, in the unaltered scene, Jabba is just a fat pasty guy and Han walks around him. They used a computer to add the "hop on tail" moment because its cute. I chuckled.

I wince at the unnecessary, out-of-place, crappy looking cgi that adds nothing to the story, and jars me out of the experience.  Same for the Greedo shooting stuff.  And the jedi rocks song.  And some of the smaller scenes meant to make the movies seem bigger.

Why do people dislike the force ghost Hayden?  Because we don't like Hayden.   You might as well replace him with a force ghost N'sync.  It's all the same angsty teenage dreamboi shit to me.

The Fett voice change isn't horrible, except for the fact that it reminds me of the stupid kid who played young Boba in AoTC's.   But the original voice for Boba sounded alot more menacing, and that's how I prefer it.  Screw Lucas's continuity.  He certainly doesn't seem to mind screwing it up when it suits him elsewhere.

At least they finally managed to make the changes that should have been made in the original Special Edition, like removing the bounding boxes from the tie fighters, and making the rancor scene not look like ass.

[daveNYC]

Why do people dislike the force ghost Hayden?  Because we don't like Hayden.

If someone wants to explain how we get ghost Hayden but don't get ghost Ewan McGregor I'd love to hear it.  Just kidding, please keep it to yourself.

And Han stepping on Jabba's tail doesn't really work.  It's like making short jokes around Scarface.

[Ironwood]

  [
Why do people dislike the force ghost Hayden?  Because we don't like Hayden.   You might as well replace him with a force ghost N'sync.  It's all the same angsty teenage dreamboi shit to me.

If I was the type of person who raided other people's posts for sigs, I would take this one.  Many thanks.

[SirBruce]

Why do people dislike the force ghost Hayden?  Because we don't like Hayden.

If someone wants to explain how we get ghost Hayden but don't get ghost Ewan McGregor I'd love to hear it.  Just kidding, please keep it to yourself.

I explained it already. :)  Hayden was Anakin back when he was still "good".  Darth Vader was so evil, so corrupted by the Dark Side, that he was really someone "else".  Anakin's good side redeemed himself in the final battle between Luke and The Emporer, and thus his light side ghost (dark siders don't get ghosts, I guess?) is himself as he was when he was good.

Bruce

[personman]

I thought he waited this long to release them on DVD because the stipulation in his divorce of his wife getting proceeds from Star Wars finally ran out.  Of course, perhaps that's just a rumor to propogate his evilness(...)

Is this the same ex who adopted a daughter then abandoned them both for a pretty boy to go be a wealthy jetsetter?

I could be evil like that too. :-)

Edit: grammer is hard