Star Wars re-re-re-re-release

[Murgos]

So, after about 5 stoli gimlets I finally got up the nerve to watch the recent rerelease of SW ep IV on DVD.  I have to say that it wasnt bad.  I actually am quite pleased with almost all of it.  The only parts that bothered me were the egregrious amounts of CGI added to Mos Eisley and the entirely irrational amount of cyrulean blue used to 'punch up' the colors.  Otherwise, I really liked nearly all the enhancements made, particularly the Biggs & Luke scene that was re-added (the Jabba scene was just o.k., & I can see why Jorgé thinks it's important and now Han and Greedo shoot simultainiously).  All the space effects looked much better, the music and sound were great, and the video quality was exceptional (Leia is still teh hottie).  Really the only thing that bothered me about this version was Luke's hair cut, man that boy needs a trim.

Ok, time for another gimlet and a viewing of Empire.  Wish me luck, I'm going in!

[SirBruce]

I think the re-release version of Star Wars and Empire were fine (and they are almost the same as the DVD version).  The biggest problem with the DVD version seems to be that they went a little too far enriching the colors.

Most of the really outrageous changes I think are in RotJ, which the changing celebrations, the removal of the Ewok song, and the new Anakin ghost.

Bruce

PS - And, of course, Greedo shooting first... that was the most outrageous change of all.

[Polysorbate80]

...the removal of the Ewok song...

I fully support the removal of Ewoks in any way possible (but with considerable preference given to explosives, carnivorous animals, or testing of Mary Kay products.)

[SirBruce]

I used to feel the same way, but if you're going to have Ewoks, you may as well have it as it was, with its own unique style.  When I saw the scene, the omission was quite noticeable.

Bruce

[Murgos]

So I had to ditch my drunken all night starwarsathon after my brothers fiance came home (without my brother) in a Very Bad Mood™.  What I saw of Empire looked good though I never even made it to Yoda.  The colors seemed to be less blaring in Empire but maybe thats just because Hoth is mostly white and the colors already came across pretty well.

I'm kind of dreading watching Jedi because thats the one George has felt the most need to pick at over the years.

[schild]

I'm kind of dreading watching Jedi because thats the one George has felt the most need to pick at over the years.

That's because Jedi is the worst of the trilogy. It's like picking at the worst scab. In 20 years, Phantom and Clone won't look the same either. Lucas is a revisionist. Unfortunately, most of his crap comes out looking awful every time. If I wasn't a completionist I wouldn't pick up the trilogy (since I already have the HK bootlegs from like 2 years ago [they were the laserdisc special edition on dvd]).

Even posting about Lucas makes me angry. That guy is such a cinematic asshole.

[Murgos]

In 20 years, Phantom and Clone won't look the same either. Lucas is a revisionist.

If he edits (reshoots) Jar-jar into a semi rational being, drops the little black sambo accent off the rest of the Gungans and adds about 8 years to Anakin, Phantom could be a decent flick.  Clone just has problems, I don't think there is much hope for it.

[schild]

If he removes all the dialogue and takes out most of the characters, Phantom could be a decent flick.

FIFY. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Joe]

So, after about 5 stoli gimlets

Good man.

[AOFanboi]

Phantom could be a decent flick.

No, it will still be an animated toy catalogue with hammy acting.

AotC was twice the movie TPM tried to be.

[Merusk]

I get the feeling you haven't seen the SEs before at all Murgos.  Is that the case? If so the Jabba scene on the DVDs is improved from the release back in 97 by a good margin.  They used the Jabba CG model from Phantom to do the scene this time.  The 97 release had this really poorly CGI'd version (even for 1997) that looked more like a jr High computer student's attempt at modeling than a professional's work.

The enhancements in Empire were really the best done.  I even like that for the DVD version they took out 'monkey face' Emperor and replaced him with Ian McDermond, the guy who played him for Jedi & the prequels.

Altering Anakin to Hayden Christenson in Jedi was just wrong, IMO.  And Lucas' lame attempt to further tie the prequels to the OT. Anakin wasn't ever completly destroyed, as Haden-as-Spirit implies. The whole "Well Anakin died when he became Vader" was Ben & Yoda's opinoin, not Luke's.  If B&Y had been right, then there was no way for Luke to redeem him. Meh.

I've mixed feelings on taking the yub-yub song out of Jedi.  I think it's because the music that replaced it is so obviously 'current' John Williams as opposed to the 80's Jedi/Raiders/Superman John Williams that wrote it in the first place.   While it's familiar, it doesn't quite completly gel with the rest of the soundtrack.  Yub-yub at least had that going for it.

What REALLY annoyed me, though, was the removal of "Lapti-Nek" in favor of that lousy "Jedi Rocks" song.  Lapti was one of the most fun pieces in the whole soundtrack, and one of my favorites, up there with the Cantina song and the Imperial March.

[Arnold]

In 20 years, Phantom and Clone won't look the same either. Lucas is a revisionist.

If he edits (reshoots) Jar-jar into a semi rational being, drops the little black sambo accent off the rest of the Gungans and adds about 8 years to Anakin, Phantom could be a decent flick.  Clone just has problems, I don't think there is much hope for it.

I *sob* actually own the second disk.  Cut out everything but the scenes wher Jedi fight, and you have a pretty cool, 5 minute movie.

[HaemishM]

Phantom could be a decent flick.

No, it will still be an animated toy catalogue with hammy acting.

AotC was twice the movie TPM tried to be.

Nada, negatory. I will take watching the saber battle between Qui-Gon, Obi-Won and Darth Maul in Phantom over and over again in deference to actually having to watch any part of AotC again. I'd rather watch Ewok sex than watch that goddamn bland, over CGI-ed piece of excrement again.

Now granted, the rest of Phantom was pretty shitty too, but that saber battle made up for it. Nothing, not even Samuel Jackson getting all badass on Fett makes up for it.

And fuck Lucas in tiny places for Ewoks, Greedo shooting first and pasting Hayden Christensen into RotJ.

[Rasix]

As much as I rail on Lucas to my wife about what a gigantic fucking waste of human DNA he is and how the next Indiana Jones will probably be involve Ewoks and giant Jamiacan bunnies fighting over the discovery of Mohammed's thigh bone; I got the trilogy for my birthday over the weekend and was happy.   I bet my wife was thinking that I was just putting on an act in front of my brother, but I was honestly really glad I got them.

Now despite all of the dislike I have for the major changes, I can shrug them off because I now have one more reason for not ever hooking up my VCR again, and I have 3 of my favorite movies in a long lasting format that I actually watch.  I can always just close my eyes when Greedo and Han meet.

So, I guess I can still hate Lucas yet realise no matter how badly he butchers my childhood, I'll still recognize it enough to not care when the chips are down.  For the record, I do not own EP1 or 2.  As much as I like Star Wars, I find it hard to buy DVDs of movies I can't stand.

Edit: And now at least I have a copy on DVD before he re-re-re-re-re-re-releases them and has an Ewok blow up the Death Star.

[Sky]

I'm quite happy with the DVD set, I bought it when it came out. Sure, Greedo shoots first is dumb, Hayden as Vader's spirit is arguable, and the over-CGI-ification of Mos Eisley is very noticeable. In all, about one minute of screentime for complaints, and a lot cleaner effects through the rest of the movie. I'll take that compromise, with it's anamorphic widescreen and DD5.1 trimmings.

Looks and sounds great on the home theater, and the 4th disc of extras is pretty nice as well, I enjoyed the behind-the-scenes stuff from the original productions. Seeing the stuff about the limited release reminds me of being a kid and bothering the hell out of my parents until they let me see SW in theaters way too many times.

I wish I'd bought it with the money I paid for that Fable crap. I'm a very happy SW geek/fanboi.

[Ardent]

I enjoyed the behind-the-scenes stuff from the original productions.

The "New Hope" audition videos were very cool. Seeing Kurt Russell audition for Han Solo was interesting.

Reminds me of a great SNL sketch where Kevin Spacey imitated Christopher Walken auditioning for Han Solo and Walter Matthau auditioning for Obi Wan.

[AOFanboi]

I'm quite happy with the DVD set, I bought it when it came out. Sure, Greedo shoots first is dumb, Hayden as Vader's spirit is arguable, and the over-CGI-ification of Mos Eisley is very noticeable. In all, about one minute of screentime for complaints, and a lot cleaner effects through the rest of the movie. I'll take that compromise, with it's anamorphic widescreen and DD5.1 trimmings.

I would too, if it weren't for the gratingly jerky animation of the riding in the beginning of ESB. Notice, for instance, the feet movements when Han's beast rides into the hangar the first time. Is the floor really that slippery? Also later when Han finds Luke and he rides through the Obi-Wan apparation - not exactly a large number of animation frames there.

Animation improved considerably for the third, though, which can be seen in the Rancor beast segment.

[Fabricated]

My verdict:
-The edits that sucked in the "Special Edition" now suck less.
-The remastering job was fucking awesome. Colors are a bit strong at times, but me and a friend watched the original VHS releases (nonspecial) and they looked like SHIT in comparison.
-New edits are eh. Why the fuck did they need to add the shitty music and pointless CG of people celebrating to Jedi?
-Still too much "funny" CG junk. The stupid frog thing in Jedi was so out of place, as was the extended song.

[Teleku]

Phantom could be a decent flick.

No, it will still be an animated toy catalogue with hammy acting.

AotC was twice the movie TPM tried to be.

Zero times two is still zero.

[schild]

I prefer to think of it as frosting on shit doesn't make it edible. Which it was, some sword fights on some of the worst dialogue ever seen in a huge budget motion picture. Lucas infuriates me. I'll step away now.

[plangent]

I think it's because the music that replaced it is so obviously 'current' John Williams as opposed to the 80's Jedi/Raiders/Superman John Williams that wrote it in the first place.

That's an interesting observation.  I wonder if Lucas changed the songs to provide himself with the psychological crutch of a partner in crime?

Speaking of John William's past I ran across a tidbit.  John Williams was Henry Mancini's pianist for a long time and played on the original recording of "The Pink Panther".  I thought that was neat.

[Sky]

The Pink Panther DVD set is nice, too :P

[Arcadian Del Sol]

I got this for my birthday last Friday and watched them over the weekend. I found nothing to complain about. The changes that most people seem to whine about seem rather superfluous to me. Whether Han shot first or not, doesn't really bug me. I'm willing to bet that no single viewer ever, walked away from that scene and thought, "wow - Han Solo just murdered that guy in cold blood cuz he clearly shot first!" The scene had no value in the establishment of Solo as a 'bad guy', because truth be told, he's NOT a  bad guy. He's an intergalactic UPS truck driver who had to ditch his cargo on the side of the road, and now his boss wants him to pay for it. oooooh a real scoundrel, that one.

I didn't quite understand why Anakin's blue ghost would revert to his younger days while Obi Wan and Yoda are forced to live ethereally as octegenaric spirit guides, but I can understand why it was done. It just ties up the six movies into a single story, as opposed to individual groups of two stories. It doesn't really make sense when looking at the three jedi masters, but artistically, it makes a lot more sense than an anonymous old guy that nobody really knows. Using Christensen's image makes it seem a little more clear that Anakin has been redeemed; restored to the side of light. Its an artistic visual that, in a vastly superior way, demonstrates that a lifetime of evil is not enough to forever doom one to evil; that each day, we choose to be good or evil; and despite Yoda's suggestions, one can never really be 'lost' to the 'dark side' - The image of young anakin at the end of Jedi makes all that statement in a single image. I think it was a good idea.

[HaemishM]

I never thought of Han Solo as a bad guy because he shot first. It was all about the fact that if Solo shot first, he is a decent guy who sometimes has to do bad things to get by. If Greedo shoots first, he's just not as "naturalistic" a character as he was.

But I also just have huge problems with an "artist" going back to reworking his old creations. Let them stand on their own merits, as expressions of who you were then. Because at some point, as an artist, you'll be dead, and the stuff you created will have to stand the test of time without your meddling.

Knowing when it's finished is an important creative skill.

[Ironwood]

 

Shite.

Thanks for that.  I would defend to the death your right to hold that wrong opinion.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

 

Shite.

Thanks for that.  I would defend to the death your right to hold that wrong opinion.

Not sure which defense would be more effective - yours, or the Washington Redskins. Eitherwise, I still didn't have a problem with the changes. At all. I'll leave this drama to be debated by the Star Wars equivalent of Trekkies, and just continue on enjoying the DVD releases.

[Paelos]

They didn't jerk around with Empire, and it's my favorite of the three, so I'm ok with the DVD series as a whole. Considering that Return of the Jedi was the one that got the most tweaking, and that its my least favorite, I think I see where Lucas is coming from on making changes. I don't see where he's coming from by making them the absolute, won't release originals ever again, fanboys can go fuck themselves changes.

[ahoythematey]

What Arc said, except that I still fucking HATE the new dance-number in RotJ, particularly when compared to the surreal quirkiness of the old one.  However, I do consider the superb picture enhancements to all three films a fair tradeoff, especially since I can now skip over that godawful scene.

[Hanzii]

Stuff

While I think the new movies are utter crap, and that Lucas' track record as a writer/director shows, that he should just keeps his hands off, because he has the least understanding of why his originals were great - I agree with Arc, that the changes aren't really that horrific.

And I was happy with the original restorations.
I was in the cinema when I saw the first trailer. A small television screen in the center of the countrys largest screen and the sound of Williams' score playing in stereo from the front. A voice says: "Is this how you remember Star Wars?" Then a X-wing zooms out followed by Tie-fighters and glorius THX Surroundsound.
I'll trade the assinine idea of Han shooting first for the chance of experiencing the movies on the big screen any day.

I don't really like the changes - to much flashy cgi, Han shooting second makes him a less resourcefull badass and the new music is worse than the old - but I'll live with that in exchange for the fixing of special effects and the new restored sounds.

And the stuff about artists never going back and changing stuff...
please, do you guys have any ideas how many Mona Lisas Leonardo painted before he was happy? Not sketches, not plans, but actual paintings? Artists goes back all the time, and Lucas isn't an artist - just a craftsman that got lucky once.

[personman]

I didn't quite understand why Anakin's blue ghost would revert to his younger days while Obi Wan and Yoda are forced to live ethereally as octegenaric spirit guides, but I can understand why it was done.

So what do "young" Yoda-larvae look like?

Obi-wan spent his penultimate years alone: watching over the next Jedi and contemplating the force when "all" other Jedi were dead.  It doesn't bother me that he'd "choose" that body form for eternity.  Though admittedly not in thirty years did it ever occurred to me to spin brain cycles on the question until now.

[SirBruce]

The point of Anakin being "younger" was always there, just with a different actor.  The point was that this ghost was his REAL spirit, Anakin as he was before he went evil and became Darth Vader, redeemed thanks to his sacrifice during Luke's battle with the Emporer.

Bruce

[ajax34i]

18 years have to pass between Episode 3 and Episode 4, unless we're to assume that Luke and Leia have been conceived in Episode 2 somewhere, in which case Lucas can divide the 18 years into 2 9-year intermissions.  

But any way, it was weird seeing Anakin's ghost look younger than Luke, his son.

[HaemishM]

And the stuff about artists never going back and changing stuff...
please, do you guys have any ideas how many Mona Lisas Leonardo painted before he was happy? Not sketches, not plans, but actual paintings? Artists goes back all the time, and Lucas isn't an artist - just a craftsman that got lucky once.

Certainly artists like daVinci and Michaelangelo made multiple paintings and such, but in an entirely different context. It isn't as if daVinci had to publicize the Mona Lisa by a certain date. Making multiple painting is fine, IMO.

Lucas, OTOH, had a specific date for release and he made it. Now, it's like he has sold us a painting, in the original release. Then, while it's hanging in our living room, he walks into the house and puts a few dollops of paint on the old canvas. Then a few months later, he comes back and changes more things. And again. And again. By the time he finally croaks it, the painting we have now is nothing like the original when we bought it.

Give me the choice, motherfucker. Give me the choice of watching the original or his masturbatory changed version, and I'll buy it. Don't give me the choice, don't get my ducats.

[Merusk]

Lucas, OTOH, had a specific date for release and he made it. Now, it's like he has sold us a painting, in the original release. Then, while it's hanging in our living room, he walks into the house and puts a few dollops of paint on the old canvas. Then a few months later, he comes back and changes more things. And again. And again. By the time he finally croaks it, the painting we have now is nothing like the original when we bought it.

Give me the choice, motherfucker. Give me the choice of watching the original or his masturbatory changed version, and I'll buy it. Don't give me the choice, don't get my ducats.

F. L. Wright did this with his houses all the time.  Although it was people modifying it instead of him.  If he visited their house and furniture had been moved, he'd berate them and proceed to move it back into the correct position. Artists are nothing, if not completly fucked in the head.

I agree with giving us the choice of getting the original, though.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

Lucas, OTOH, had a specific date for release and he made it. Now, it's like he has sold us a painting, in the original release. Then, while it's hanging in our living room, he walks into the house and puts a few dollops of paint on the old canvas. Then a few months later, he comes back and changes more things. And again. And again. By the time he finally croaks it, the painting we have now is nothing like the original when we bought it.

I'd agree with you if the title of this painting was "Han Shot First", or "Ewoks going YUP JUB with drums" - but we're talking about insignificant alterations. The way people are carrying on, you'd think he'd spliced in scenes from Das Boot and renamed the series "Submarine Wars" - but we're talking about some rather insignificant changes to the films, and of the significant ones, they greatly improve it, such as the use of CGI starships to enhance battle sequences.

See, the problem with remastering to DVD format is that there is a level of clarity that is so far beyond what was capable when A New Hope came out, that all of the horribly ugly scars are visible - R2D2 looks like he's made out of paper mache and water color paints. C3P0's innards are clearly a stocking jumpsuit and not a nest of cable and wire. The guns are made of painted wood carvings. So to help hide the really bad look of a hi-def Star Wars, CGI plug-ins are added, to dress up guns, spaceships, and in some cases, to blot out what would be some really cheesy sets that were passable in the 70s, but not by today's standards.

Its like if a caveman were to show up at your house and offer to repaint the red hand prints on your walls with a massive watercolor reinterpretation of the Sistine Chapel. Our eyes have outgrown Star Wars, so Lucas has tried, and rightly so IMO, to patch the leaky roof and mud up the cracked drywall. I think its great.