Free Respec. Why not?

[Chimpy]

People always say Heroic Mech is easy, but I'll be damned if I know the secret to making those little bomb tossing demons not take out one of my group every pull without using a Lock or Priest to MC something to die for the cause. Please tell me, pretty please 

Only person in melee range should be your tank. And your tank should be running around in circles and hopping around, the bombs hit where their target was when they start their throw, so if you hop around enough you miss them. Have ranged burn them down one by one with focused fire, ranged stays a little bit apart from each other to avoid too much damage from the charge.

They only bomb people/pets that are within 10 or so yds.

[Venkman]

  My main is a 70 frost mage.  That's how I identify my character in the game, and it defines some stuff I can do and what I'm good at. 

Not to drag this out too much, but mages are one of the classes that would benefit the least from free respecs.

I agree with this. I can't really see the greater survivability of a Frost Mage being that much of a "required/often" spec change from Fire, who's primary survivability is killing the target before it kills him. If you're dying a lot on Raids as a Fire spec, most like you're doing something wrong in a way that neither spec is going to significantly change your odds of not dying. And your function on that Raid is entirely independent of your spec. Mages DPS and sometimes CC.

That's very different from Tanks and Healers.

[Chimpy]

  My main is a 70 frost mage.  That's how I identify my character in the game, and it defines some stuff I can do and what I'm good at. 

Not to drag this out too much, but mages are one of the classes that would benefit the least from free respecs.

I agree with this. I can't really see the greater survivability of a Frost Mage being that much of a "required/often" spec change from Fire, who's primary survivability is killing the target before it kills him. If you're dying a lot on Raids as a Fire spec, most like you're doing something wrong in a way that neither spec is going to significantly change your odds of not dying. And your function on that Raid is entirely independent of your spec. Mages DPS and sometimes CC.

That's very different from Tanks and Healers.

They are giving ALL mages ice-block in 2.3.2, so the "I don't have ice block, dude!" excuses fire mages have used in the past for dying on raids won't work anymore.

[Fordel]

People always say Heroic Mech is easy, but I'll be damned if I know the secret to making those little bomb tossing demons not take out one of my group every pull without using a Lock or Priest to MC something to die for the cause. Please tell me, pretty please 

Only person in melee range should be your tank. And your tank should be running around in circles and hopping around, the bombs hit where their target was when they start their throw, so if you hop around enough you miss them. Have ranged burn them down one by one with focused fire, ranged stays a little bit apart from each other to avoid too much damage from the charge.

They only bomb people/pets that are within 10 or so yds.

So if your DPS is mostly melee, your mostly screwed? 

[Xanthippe]

Seems like an easy fix would be to create an item that grants a free respec and either have it drop (mob or quest loot) or perhaps have it craftable by engineers (since they don't have much to do as it is). 

I think respecs should be conviently obtained but they should require some mechanism to obtain such that the decisions in respeccing are still at least minimally meaningful. 

Have them drop off the last boss of heroics like Nethers. That would work for me.

Only the elite get to play, eh?

You know, I understand you hate my raiding politics, but COME ON. Heroics? They are five mans for god's sake. If you do nothing but solo all the time, why the hell would you care about respeccing so much?

Soloers might want to spec for farming and pvp differently.

How can I possibly hate your "raiding politics" when I have no idea what that means?  However, your attitude does bother me.

Are you really that unable to see that people who don't play the game the way you do might actually have good reason to respec?

Look, I don't begrudge you your raiding stuff - it's fine with me if you want to chiefly raid; I'm not advocating taking a thing away from you.  What do you care about my game?

[Paelos]

Are you really that unable to see that people who don't play the game the way you do might actually have good reason to respec?

Look, I don't begrudge you your raiding stuff - it's fine with me if you want to chiefly raid; I'm not advocating taking a thing away from you.  What do you care about my game?

I mentioned heroics as an option for a free respec because you have to do something to make it non-trivial. If you just give away one respec a day when you log in, what's the point of speccing at all? At that point, just remove specs from the game. I'd love that idea far and above "speccing" my toons. I hate the whole idea of that forced system into a certain playstyle for certain classes. The reason most people want to respec that much is because they are engaging in two different activities, often pvp/soloing and raiding instances. In that case, many tanks or healers are forced into specs to run instances, and they can't enjoy the rest of the game solo.

I can't really imagine people wanting to respec three to four times a week unless you were running in groups to acheive two different goals with mutually exclusive specs. Most of the dps I know can do just fine pvping and soloing and raiding in their spec without any shift. Feral Druids also don't seem to have any problems. Warriors, Priests, and Paladins are a different matter.

If you don't like having it heroics, make it a daily quest chain or something. I don't really care where you put it, just don't make it truly sit on your ass and do nothing for it free.

[Xanthippe]

If you don't like having it heroics, make it a daily quest chain or something. I don't really care where you put it, just don't make it truly sit on your ass and do nothing for it free.

I agree - a quest would be fine.  What I didn't agree with is having it be necessary for people to run a heroic.

[Paelos]

If you don't like having it heroics, make it a daily quest chain or something. I don't really care where you put it, just don't make it truly sit on your ass and do nothing for it free.

I agree - a quest would be fine.  What I didn't agree with is having it be necessary for people to run a heroic.

I'm fine with that as well.

[ajax34i]

I don't agree with a quest.  Well, I guess it would have to be a bombing run quest, because with anything involving killing, the very classes that that could use the respecs the most will have the most trouble getting them.

The discussion was really about making the respecs free, and I thought it was about that because we started with "let's make respecs easier" and then figured that there's no point in not going all the way to "completely free".  But I guess there are a few points, which is OK.

The easiest way to make respecs easier for Blizzard would be to reduce the fee, say from 50g max to 25g max.  They already have it set up where it incrementally goes from 1g to 25g, then stays at 25g for 10 respecs, then continues up to 50g where it stops, so they HAVE made it easier.  They could just cap it at 25g and it would be a nice change.

As far as quests, heroic drops, or other ways to make respecs "free" that still require work, I'd like to see them all added as options, all of them.   And it would still suck unless they make respecs collectible, so that in the course of normal gameplay over a month I can do a bunch of quests and heroics and collect 100 of the things and be set.

And honestly, if they do that, if they let me collect 100 respecs in a month for no effort other than regular gameplay, they might as well make them free.  Cause, regular gameplay, I'll do that on my own anyway.

[Numtini]

Honestly, I don't understand why this has to be turned into an ordeal. Not everyone is a 70. There are reasons to want to respec at lower levels--maybe the lack of tanks might be solved if people had a chance to use a tank spec while tanking before they are 70?

Forcing you to go back into town and to the trainer is sufficient ordeal for a respec, particularly since most people are simply going to be switching between a solo and group friendly one.

[Zetor]

Exactly.

Oddly enough, I found the pre-70 BC instances to often be harder then the lv70 ones; that's because I did them with my guild when we were leveling, and had fury warriors tanking along with feral druids / shadowpriests healing. Even if the only concession made was to have a 'pve instance spec' (holy, prot, restoration, combat) and a 'non-instance spec' (shadow, arms, elemental, subtlety) that automatically switched when you zoned and had separate respec costs, it'd help a lot.

Seriously, this problem REALLY hurts healers/tanks/hybrids.. and honestly, who wants a prot warrior outside of an instance?


-- Z.

[Dren]

Beating the dead horse here, but I just have to say again, I'm for free respecs.  Saying there is no place for specs at all if they are free doesn't make sense to me.  The only way they hold vaule is to make them cost gold to change?

As I said, the game doesn't change at all.  You have to go out of your way to go physically get the talents changed.  That's enough.  Now you are locked into a set of talents and choices before hitting an instance or going out to solo.  If you just let everyone do everything all the time, THAT would be hugely different from anything we have today.  The two suggestions aren't even close.  I don't understand the comment, "If they are free, you might as well get rid of them."

I really just don't understand the driving need to make respecs hurt.  So you want to keep an identity on your toon.  Great, keep it.  Just because it iis free doesn't mean you have to change it.  Yes, you will be asked to do so, but you can man up and hold your ground if you choose.

Yes, this really only affects warriors, paladins, and priests.  It could also affect Druids in that going fully resto really does hurt your solo career.

My ultimate issue is that if you choose to be a specific build that you enjoy when doing instances with a group, you automatically have to suffer the rest of the game because outside of a group, you are subpar.  I have a healadin and a holy priest.  I like to heal for my guild.  I enjoy it.  Yet, I'm a very casual player, so getting ahead in the game outside of doing instances is extremely tough/slow/boring. 

I constantly hear the question of why there aren't as many healers and tanks.  There is your answer.  While there are plenty of people wanting to fill those roles, their gametime outside of those roles has been made less than ideal.  I know this due to the comparison to my Rogue and Warlock.  Those two classes can go out and solo content quicker, more effeciently, and feel powerful the whole time doing it.  They are fun.

I'm not suggesting making those classes everything all the time.  I'm suggesting that they be given the opportunity once or twice a day to switch up and spec appropriately for what they are trying to do.  I will get more prolonged enjoyment out of those characters and the game.

Make it so you can change for free 1-2 times a day.  More will cost money.  That way if you want to stay in your spec, you can tell people that  "I already burned my free daily respec," so they leave you alone.  My vote is for 2 since I'd want to change to my solo respec and back again or vice versa on a daily basis.

My other favorite idea is choosing two builds and being able to switch between them for free.  This still requires a visit to a trainer, but does lock you into at least deciding what alternate build you want to choose.  The actual picking of talents for certain builds is what costs money, but toggling there after is free.

[Paelos]

The point was that if your system is so stupid as to require someone to respec constantly just to be effective in the entire game, then you need to fix that system. Making it easier to respec isn't fixing the system; it's putting a band-aid on it. I'm not in favor of it because I'm not in favor of that as a solution. Respecs should remain costly and the specs themselves should change, not the other way around.

Prot warriors shouldn't exist. There is no reason why every warrior shouldn't start with these basic tanking abilities like shield slam and devestate. Just take that line out and replace it with another form of DPS, or add more dps abilities to that line.

Healers shouldn't have to spec healing either. It should be a given that they have the healing capabilities, and they should get to choose what kind of dps they can do like everyone else. Why is it that the other classes have 3 types of ways to spec dps, but we can't do that with the backbone classes of raiding?

[ajax34i]

Well, "free respecs" is easy to implement, and revamping several talent trees isn't.

I don't know about tanking, for priests, they ALL have all the healing capabilities regardless of spec.  What they get from holy-disc builds is 20% less threat, 15% bigger heals, and 15-20% more mana-efficient heals, but otherwise they all use the same spells (I'm not even gonna include lolwell and the other junk in this discussion).

Could Blizzard give all priests 20% less base threat, and boost their base healing spells by 35%?  Hell yeah, easily.  Everyone would cry foul, though, and ask for nerfs, and ask for a re-tune of the end-game content to be 30% more difficult. 

Ideally, I'd love to see Blizzard re-do the priest talent trees the following way: 

- Discipline should be about threat for all spells and mana regen and efficiency of all spells,
- Holy should be about Holy DPS only (and we should have a heck of a lot more holy DPS spells, less than but close to a mage's variety of choice),
- Shadow should be about shadow DPS only.

In addition, make Holy DPS spells function on the crit/burst-damage principle, and keep Shadow DPS spells on the DOTS/utility principle.  Let the healing spells function equally well in any spec, and make Discipline enhance aggro/mana/casting overall, not just holy or just shadow.  Like mage talents, dammit!  I don't want a mage's DPS, btw, just to be clear, I just want our talents to be organized the way theirs are, and I want a variety of holy DPS spells and a variety of shadow DPS spells, even if they are weak compared to a mage's.

I think it's been suggested on the priest forums, repeatedly, in detail, and long ago.  Think they'll do it?

[Dren]

What Ajax said.  I'm going for what I think they can do without much interruption to the game.  Revamping the trees for select classes is obviously another solution, but I wouldn't place a nickel bet on that EVER happening.

So, what I'm hearing is that given the choice of:

1.) Free Respec, no change to talent trees
2.) Keep Respecs as they are because you aren't making it so respecs are necessary overall.

You choose 2?

In either case respecs are made trivial.  One way just isn't the method you prefer so ignore the issue?  I don't understand that.

I do understand what are saying about the talent trees being as they are.  I just don't think we'll see any improvement there anytime soon.  Am I a proponent for them, yes.  Do that and I don't care about free respecs.

[Paelos]

Nobody chooses 2. It's simply what the status quo is. I don't don't want them choosing 1 as a fix because it doesn't address the problem.

Specs suck as they are right now. Respeccing all the time proves this. People constantly dumping cash into the system just to be effective isn't the answer.

[El Gallo]

Talents are the worst thing in WoW.  They should ALL be converted to base class skills, the the classes should be balanced as necessary.  When customization and fun conflict, fuck customization in the eye.

[lamaros]

Don't like doing things that exist only to waste your time?

Wow is not for you.

[Paelos]

Don't like doing things that exist only to waste your time?

Wow is not for you.

Wasting your time is fine, but I think specs hurt that more than help it. I'd probably try to play more and pvp if I could, but I'm a prot tank and I don't want to have to play the swap dance 5 times a week.

[ajax34i]

I think their answer is Hero classes; the shadowknight with them runes seems designed to be able to switch "specs" on the fly.  Dunno if they'll even have talent trees.  And, depending on how similar their next MMOG is to this one, they may start using WoW to test "features" of the upcoming MMOG, like CCP is doing with the "avatars inside the space stations" stuff for EVE.

[Merusk]

Seeing things go from "awesome, differences" to "omfg specs are stupid!" in just 3 years is amusing.

One of the bitches about EQ used to be that every warrior, rogue, druid, etc was the same.  From gear, to play to spells.  Specs were implemented to allow some difference and some flavor to each class.  The idea was that each spec made that player 'unique' and played a bit differently from the other players of the class.

Of course, like all good ideas, the min/maxers came in and gangfucked it into a sad, gibbering set of rigid guidelines where 'this sucks' and 'that's ok.'   The same thing would happen if all spec talents were core abilities.  Only the 'uber' abilities would get used, and you'd be a tool for using the other ones.

Talents were supposed to be unique but powerful attributes for definining your chacacter, but it also means certain specs are shoehorned into a role or gimped in other roles because of their spec.  Gee, sounds like it's working right to me.   Your talents have defined your character. Your role is now 'X' 'Y' or 'Z'.  Change spec and it's a different role.

The biggest problem is once again min-maxing and designing encounters and content based around that.  If Tank-SpecX, Healer-SpecY and DPS-SpecQ are able to crush content in a god-like fashion, it'll be designed around that group.  Meaning TSy, HSz and DSr are fucked because they're less optimal.  They don't seem to give a damn about that in 5-mans, but for raids it suddenly matters.

That's before you get ito PVP, but if you don't Min-Max in PVP you're just messing around anyway and probably don't care as much. 

[Paelos]

I'd like to be able to choose my role based on my gear. Not based on my spec. That's where the specs fail. I have plenty of dps warrior gear, but my spec puts me at a huge disadvantage to using it in raids. How great would it be for all warriors to be able to tank when needed and dps when not, like druids in feral? That's what I want. Viability so we don't have to swap out people in raids for tanks and healers or more dps.

[Jayce]

It seems like the really bad problem is that some specs can't solo.  As it is now, some of those healing or tanking roles are mutually exclusive of being able to do anything on your own, and doing things solo is part of the fundamental appeal of WoW.

I know this is just another variation on the "fix the specs" argument, but what if you could effectively solo with a pure tanking build?  A pure healing build?  A pure PvP build?  Then respecs would only be necessary to switch to a polar opposite sort of role, like DPS to healing or PvP to PvE.

[Dren]

I'd like to be able to choose my role based on my gear. Not based on my spec. That's where the specs fail. I have plenty of dps warrior gear, but my spec puts me at a huge disadvantage to using it in raids. How great would it be for all warriors to be able to tank when needed and dps when not, like druids in feral? That's what I want. Viability so we don't have to swap out people in raids for tanks and healers or more dps.

I think they planned the stances to be your switching roles on Warriors.  It missed horribly though since being really good at any of the roles meant diving so deep into one branch of the talent tree doomed you to that life.  The difference in stances are not even close to overcoming the talents you choose.

We've had this argument of min/max ruling the game.  It happens in every game that has come out.  I've said before, that they should just accept the fact that players will find the best template and just use that to death.  Why give them those options?  Just make the classes all the same.

The options should not come  in the way of changing roles or effectivity.  The options should play to the players sense of style, interests outside of combat, interests in the lore, etc.  Make the choices you have only effect your look, your clothing styles, your attitude, your walk, your background/lore.  Make those choices be non critical to combat or your central game component that drives everything else.  If you want to make the choices more important, then make them only involve the utility spells/abilities.  Players can choose how helpful they want to be to either themselves or the group.  Think adding some oomph to crafting skills (Blacksmith gets +1 to all magic items he/she makes to all stats on that item.  Cook can make food/drinks that give even better stat/effect bonuses.  Medic can make more effective bandages than others.)  Think travel (move faster, transport, summon, etc.)  Think death/res (easier ressurections, mass resurrections, double soulstones, etc.)  The number of ideas are endless.

As said, the items can be the thing that makes people stand out in one way or another in certain roles.  If you want to min/max, do so with the item system.  That makes you play the game.  Spec's just make you find that one sweet spot that everyone else copies.  A huge pool of items with minute tweaks on stats and effects like they have along with minute changes you can make with enchantments, gems, and oils/stones is where people can tailor the combat system to their liking.  I'd like to see them add in more crafting tweaks that would take this massive system to another level.

I don't think they will do any of this.

Make respecs free. 

[Merusk]

Holy feature creep out the ass, Dren.  That stuff may be fun and roses in a 'world' game, but in a 'game' game they get goofy.  Not to mention all the balancing and tweaking and shit that'd get done around it.

Look, specs define a 'role'  The biggest problem is for some classes, it over-defines it and creates a weakness. (Healers, & tanks)  Expanding/ tweaking those specs so they're at least viable in other aspects is a far bigger win than tossing out the system, imo. (First time I've EVER seen folks say "we don't want choice! Make us uniform and bland!")

[Chenghiz]

I treat specs as a way of changing the way my character plays. As a rogue this is fine, but for a lot of classes it isn't - one of the reasons I like rogues. It's the closest thing WoW has to the ability to reroll at max level.

[Paelos]

Holy feature creep out the ass, Dren.  That stuff may be fun and roses in a 'world' game, but in a 'game' game they get goofy.  Not to mention all the balancing and tweaking and shit that'd get done around it.

Look, specs define a 'role'  The biggest problem is for some classes, it over-defines it and creates a weakness. (Healers, & tanks)  Expanding/ tweaking those specs so they're at least viable in other aspects is a far bigger win than tossing out the system, imo. (First time I've EVER seen folks say "we don't want choice! Make us uniform and bland!")

You had a choice. There were nine classes to begin with. You picked one and played it. Then, you get to the max level and decide what your role will be. Will you solo for crafting mats and gold? Will you raid? Will you pvp? You collect gear along those lines to better define your character. That's enough choices. That's all the choices I need. I don't need to shoehorn myself into a role due to my spec. That's not a choice, it's a burden.

[stray]

I prefer having a ton of options in the spec trees, and not have gear be so damn crucial like it is in WoW. Some templates are severely underpowered without the best and hardest to find armor and weapons. Base stats/specs in and of themselves mean little, and I hate this game because of it (eh, among other things, I mean).

[lamaros]

Holy feature creep out the ass, Dren.  That stuff may be fun and roses in a 'world' game, but in a 'game' game they get goofy.  Not to mention all the balancing and tweaking and shit that'd get done around it.

Look, specs define a 'role'  The biggest problem is for some classes, it over-defines it and creates a weakness. (Healers, & tanks)  Expanding/ tweaking those specs so they're at least viable in other aspects is a far bigger win than tossing out the system, imo. (First time I've EVER seen folks say "we don't want choice! Make us uniform and bland!")

You had a choice. There were nine classes to begin with. You picked one and played it. Then, you get to the max level and decide what your role will be. Will you solo for crafting mats and gold? Will you raid? Will you pvp? You collect gear along those lines to better define your character. That's enough choices. That's all the choices I need. I don't need to shoehorn myself into a role due to my spec. That's not a choice, it's a burden.

On one had you seem to be saying you want the freedom to be many things at once, and on the other hand you seme to be saying "instead of limited by specs we shou be limited by class".

I really see the point.

[Tarami]

I'm kind of in both camps here, but I don't think the issue is the choices themselves, but that you can choose to specialize an already specialized class. I believe it would have been far better to make the traditional "trinity" roles have some very specific base skills that defined their PvE role, then had three trees of choices that -didn't- improve their base skills. Warriors without Protection and Priests without Holy.

Give them three flavours of damage and utility, just like Mages got. They could incorporate different improvements to the base role skill set, but not in the way current trees do, not one tree for each possible role, because their role is already set in PvE. They get to add something on top of what they already are, not significantly expand it. Paladins and Druids get the advantage of being able to tweak their trinity roles, as they are essentially both hybrids.

You would still get min/max builds, that's inevitable, but playing in the trees won't gimp your primary PvE role to the point where you can no longer efficiently perform it. Most classes (save hybrids) have flavours of damage/utility, but that's because that's their role. You can't have three healing trees or three tanking trees. Priests should kick ass at healing from the get go, it shouldn't be a choice when you've picked the class that says "Zomg, I R healer" all over it. People know what the classes are about and they don't really need to be able to change their mind about their class' fundamental function. If they didn't know, it'll appear to them by level 20, long, long before any real talent builds come into play. Talent builds do very little for the retention of new players, they're too clueless to know whether their choices are good anyways.

Furthermore, both warriors and priests, the would-be specialists, deserve being a little "better" overall than other classes, considering their importance to the game's core gameplay, the Diku. If that would make them more attractive as choices when rolling new characters, all the better, as most realms are low on these roles as it is.

[Paelos]

On one had you seem to be saying you want the freedom to be many things at once, and on the other hand you seme to be saying "instead of limited by specs we shou be limited by class".

I really see the point.

I want the freedom to participate in all aspects of the game, not be many things at once. Some classes get to do this with impunity. Some don't. The only barrier to that is SPECS.

[lamaros]

On one had you seem to be saying you want the freedom to be many things at once, and on the other hand you seme to be saying "instead of limited by specs we shou be limited by class".

I really see the point.

I want the freedom to participate in all aspects of the game, not be many things at once. Some classes get to do this with impunity. Some don't. The only barrier to that is SPECS.

Warriors cannot heal. Mages cannot tank or heal.

There is no such freedom to participate in all aspects of the game. Without talents classes would be even more limited.

Unless you want to change the game funadamentally. Which wont happen. It's Wow. It has shitty things like levels, tank/dps/heal, etc, etc.

Deal with it.

[Fordel]

I don't think that is what Paelos means.


Like your a warrior, but your not arms? 'Why are you even trying to PVP' kind of freedom (or lack of).

[Dren]

Holy feature creep out the ass, Dren.  That stuff may be fun and roses in a 'world' game, but in a 'game' game they get goofy.  Not to mention all the balancing and tweaking and shit that'd get done around it.

Look, specs define a 'role'  The biggest problem is for some classes, it over-defines it and creates a weakness. (Healers, & tanks)  Expanding/ tweaking those specs so they're at least viable in other aspects is a far bigger win than tossing out the system, imo. (First time I've EVER seen folks say "we don't want choice! Make us uniform and bland!")

Well, my point by saying all that was that all of that IS pie in the sky and won't be implemented.  That's why I'm suggesting something that is easy and gets done what I want done.  That was my point.  It isn't the final solution, but I want something to change and if that is my choice, do it.

We aren't saying "we don't want choice!"  How is saying giving people a choice to spec how they want, but lock them into it so they play one specific role and no other role having choice?  That is much more restricting than saying you can be adequate in all aspects, so go choose to do something different today.

This is an item-centric game.  Pretty much any game out today is item-centric.  That is where the differences are.  That is what makes your warrior_234 different from warrior_432.  Expand that and go with it.  Talents should just allow you to show your interest in a specific area, but not make you worthless in others.  As said, many classes don't have this problem (Druids, Rogues, Warlocks, etc.)  Why make it a problem for the key roles that are necessary for a functional group? (Priests, Warriors, etc.)

[Paelos]

On one had you seem to be saying you want the freedom to be many things at once, and on the other hand you seme to be saying "instead of limited by specs we shou be limited by class".

I really see the point.

I want the freedom to participate in all aspects of the game, not be many things at once. Some classes get to do this with impunity. Some don't. The only barrier to that is SPECS.

Warriors cannot heal. Mages cannot tank or heal.

There is no such freedom to participate in all aspects of the game. Without talents classes would be even more limited.

Unless you want to change the game funadamentally. Which wont happen. It's Wow. It has shitty things like levels, tank/dps/heal, etc, etc.

Deal with it.

What the hell are you talking about? Seriously, I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you. When I say aspects of the game I mean grouping, raiding, soloing, and pvping. That's WoW in a nutshell. Many classes have the freedom to do all of these without limits. A few don't because they are totally gimped by their specs. A prot warrior could never pvp effectively. A healy priest can't solo for shit. That's what I'm referring to.

Do you get it now? Do I have to dumb it down another shade? It has nothing to do with wanting to heal or tank. It has everything to do with opening the game up for the few classes who actually carry most of the load in the raiding game. That's not a fundamental change. That's simply revamping the current ridiculous specs. I'd love for specs to go away forever, but I realize that is unrealistic.