Valve to Vivendi: Bite me.

[Shockeye]

Prices will be announced next week.  The rumor I heard is that the Steam version of HL/CS will cost $5 less than the retail version of the same thing.

$5 is not enough to not have media for the game. However, I want a DVD version that does not cost arm+leg.

[Darklord]

1) Steam has replaced WON, so if Valve dies and Steam goes down, you aren't going to be able to play online even if you do have a DVD.  Offline play works just fine, so your single player games will keep working if Steam (or your connection) goes away.

Sorry, but that is not true.  Steam will not work without a connection to the internet.  You can not play a single player, or even a lan game with steam if there is no steam network, or if you have no internet connection.

That is my reason for not buying HL2, no offline support.

[Trippy]

1) Steam has replaced WON, so if Valve dies and Steam goes down, you aren't going to be able to play online even if you do have a DVD.  Offline play works just fine, so your single player games will keep working if Steam (or your connection) goes away.

Sorry, but that is not true.  Steam will not work without a connection to the internet.  You can not play a single player, or even a lan game with steam if there is no steam network, or if you have no internet connection.

That is my reason for not buying HL2, no offline support.

Actually I checked that after Samwise said that. Valve did add "offline" support to Steam this year (around March I believe). However you need to be careful not to "logoff" Steam before disconnecting your Internet connection or else it won't work in offline mode for some inexplicible reason (contrary to what the FAQ says). And if you make the mistake of logging off and Steam crashes to next time you want to play you won't be able to play anything unless you knew to make a backup of your clientregistry.blob file while in offline mode.

[Shockeye]

Got this off of the Inquirer.

Half-Life 2 date is 26th November

Three days earlier in Yankee land

By Wil Harris: Saturday 02 October 2004, 11:16

EUROGAMER is reporting that Vivendi has informed its retail partners this week of the release dates for the long-awaited Half-Life 2, putting to bed speculation that the court case currently ongoing between Vivendi and Valve would delay the games release until after the Yuletide period.

Tom's Sellout Guide is reporting this.

Chicago (IL) - Valve delivered the code of its new Half-Life game to VU on September 15. Now, the release date is quickly is getting closer. According to a report, Half-Life 2 will on sale on November 23 in the US. Europe will follow on November 26. US retailers expect availability in the first week of November.

[Calantus]

3) Like I said, if you tried Steam in its beta infancy and reject it based on that horrific experience, try it again.  CS 1.6 was the beta of Steam.  The beta is now over, and the bugs have been fixed, as software development should be.  Just ask all the people playing CS:Source right now via Steam.

Bitterness.

Being bitter because a free beta had bugs is slightly irrational, but we're all entitled to a bit of irrational bitterness now and then.  I'm avoiding WoW for fairly irrational reasons, myself.

I didn't play the beta, I only played when 1.6 went official (mostly because I was warring alot then and it was no point polluting my skills with 1.6 when it wasn't out).

But yeah, fully half the reason I don't want to download it is because I don't feel the method has proved itself to me. Another part is that I don't feel I'll be getting a full game downloaded. What I'll get is a number of files that go into steam and I'll have to dick around to get them onto a DVD. I just don't feel confident in that system at all, I don't want my purchase to hinge on me either dicking around, or hoping they keep a record of my purchase nicely so I can redownload if needed.

I've had to install CS 1.6 at least 4 times. If I can't DL a .exe that I can D-Click to re-install (and burn on a DVD) then I'm not sure I want it from online.

Bitterness was the first thought though, and I think it would still be enough for me to forego the online version in and of itself. Losing games I won't play, spending a few extra dollars, and waiting a little longer is worth soothing the slightly irrational bitterness I have over 1.6 release.

But yeah... if they said "here, download this file and burn it on a DVD, we'll keep a record of you in the DB, but keep the file just incase" then I probably would have gone for it sans bitterness... but a bunch of files installed into steam cache through a steam-run download? No thank you.

[SurfD]

Oddly enough, Steam (at least for me) seems to harken back to the old pure DOS days of fucking easy game moving.

My experience being that I recently got my new computer, and was basicly sitting on a completely new install of windows.  Wondering what would be the easiest way to get my Steam content from my old machine to my new machine, I simply did the following: Grab the entire Steam directory, copy it to my Games drive, and then run the Steam Executable.

That was it.  It contacted its servers, did a little update (I hadnt run Steam for a while), prompted me for my login info, and was off and running. Seems that everything you need to operate it is contained within that one directory and attendant subdirs.

Just copy the whole whack of shit to DVD, and copy it to target drive to "install".  Couldnt be much easier in my opinion.

[Sky]

As someone looking to move into the backwoods, where I'll be lucky to get a phone line, let alone broadband, Steam sounds more like Steaming Pile.

Steam, bittorrent, buying music downloads...all works great for the haves, kinda shitty for the have nots imo.

[shiznitz]

How long before an MMOG developer partners with Valve to deliver an MMOG over Steam? Paying Valve a cut would be a lot cheaper than sharing with a publisher.

[HaemishM]

Already done. Pirates of the Burning Sea.

[schild]

Already done. Pirates of the Burning Sea.

Yarrrrrr, been followin' that game for near 2 years. Tis vaporware I see, no matter where delivery shall be.

[Shockeye]

Here's the Steam pricing.

1. Bronze -- $49.95
-- Half-Life 2*
-- Counter-Strike: Source

2. Silver -- $59.95
-- Half-Life 2*
-- Counter-Strike: Source
-- Half-Life 1: Source*
-- Day of Defeat: Source*
-- Valve's back catalog currently available on Steam

3. Gold -- $89.95
-- Half-Life 2*
-- Counter-Strike: Source
-- Half-Life 1: Source*
-- Day of Defeat: Source*
-- Valve's back catalog currently available on Steam
-- Complete Half-Life 2 Strategy Guide from Prima Games
-- 3 different Half-Life 2 posters
-- Half-Life Collector's box
-- Half-Life 2 hat
-- Half-Life 2 postcard
-- Half-Life 2 stickers
-- Half-Life 2 Soundtrack CD
-- Chance to win a trip to Valve! (1 trip offered for every 5000 Gold packages purchased).

*To be made available upon products' release.

[Alluvian]

60 bucks for the version I want and I don't even get a fucking cd?  That sucks ass.

[Samwise]

If it makes you feel better, you can buy the cheapest retail CD version, register it via Steam (heck, you won't even need to install from the six CDs, all you'll need is the key from the case), and then buy the rest over Steam.  That way you get all the software you want, and a nice CD to hang on your wall.

[schild]

Half Life 2 ranks up there with Halo 2 on my 'everyone else gave a shit but I just can't' game-o-meter. You are all spooging yourself for this crap and I'm like 'whu whu whu whuuuuuuuut?'

I want to see 2 things: Deus Ex 1: Source and I'd like it if Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne shipped on time. Other than that - just more games on the shelves I may or may not play.

[SurfD]

A Deus Ex remake on source would kick all kinds of ass

[TripleDES]

I'd like a Deus Ex remake too. Some people probably planned it too, but whether it'll see the light or not is a different thing. And oh, can I order the HL2 hat via Steam after registering the DVD version?

[Calantus]

I'd be happy with just a Deus Ex redone so it actually works on one of my current computers. Short of that just hand me Counter-Strike done pretty. On a DVD. You can throw in HL2 if you feel like it.

[Sky]

Half Life 2 ranks up there with Halo 2 on my 'everyone else gave a shit but I just can't' game-o-meter. You are all spooging yourself for this crap and I'm like 'whu whu whu whuuuuuuuut?'

Ditto and whatnot.

[HaemishM]

I put HL2 and UT2k-whatevernewversion on the same scale. I'll get them if I have the money, as they both do what they do better than anyone else. HL2 will be a worthy purchase just for the mods.

$70 for the Silver version without a CD is a bit... steep.

[Shannow]

Half Life 2 ranks up there with Halo 2 on my 'everyone else gave a shit but I just can't' game-o-meter. You are all spooging yourself for this crap and I'm like 'whu whu whu whuuuuuuuut?'

Ditto and whatnot.

Im starting to agree too. Thinking that I may go trade in all the games I'm holding for HL2 for RTW instead.

And 60 bucks for HL2 DoD and CS? BITE ME.

[Sky]

BUT DOOM 3 KICKED TOTAL ASS BEST GAME EVER

[Secundo]

Good for them! Distributors are teh evil! ;)  

This *should* mean that more money goes to where they belong, the developers. I'm not even a big fps fan but I had to buy the gold package just to support online distribution :)

Another beef I have with distributors, mostly regarding online games, is that they often force you to play where they want you to.

Take World of Warcraft for example. The distributor deal blizzard has made forces Euro players to play on Euro servers, Americans on US servers and so on. Some may like this but I prefer to meet&play with people from all over the world wherever I choose to do so.

Granted, Blizzard has said they will allow players to move between regional servers eventually, but I will believe that when I see it...

[sinij]

I hate Steam with passion and how Valve uses community’s good will to make money. I used to be avid CS/DoD player before they forced everyone to use Steam if they wanted to continue playing. I personally don't like how close Steam is to actually paying monthly subscription fees for software. Still I’m very tempted to play CS:S - I hope they will have a box for it so I can get around Steam.

[sinij]

Digital delivery, man. It just freaks these people out.

Imagine that you had to go to a well every time you wanted water. Then, somebody figured out a way to get the water to come out right inside your house!

Steam is more like giving you long straw so you can suck water directly out of the well from your house. Buckets are still more convenient and technology is still not there. When I can download and burn software and then use it offline and on any machine I want to then it will be progress, for now it is only up to proof of concept stage. Problem is that not where Valve wants to take Steam – their goal is to get MS’s crack pipe dream of distributed software and stable subscription fees going.

[WonderBrick]

One concern I have with Steam, is that Valve might use the power of Half-Life 2 to force Steam on everyone, retail or Steam purchasers alike.  If I buy a retail box that contains HL2 and CS:S, and they later add HL2 multiplayer, will I have to buy the multiplayer addon?  Will it have to be delivered through Steam, even if I bought HL2 CD through retail?  Am I forced to buy HL1:S through Steam, or do I have to go buy another retail box?  I want the ability to choose Steam, because I see it as a better way to get the products i want.  I do not want to be forced.

All of that being said, I would love Steam to open the door for a catalog of older games to become available, at budget prices.  I am not happy that alot PC games have a window of a year or so(or less), before going out of print.  Not to mention, many leave the shelves for good, before hitting a reduced price-point.

[Samwise]

Steam has replaced WON, so no matter what, if you play HL2 or CS:S online, you'll be using Steam.  IT BURNS!

sinij, can you explain exactly how Steam exploits goodwill to steal money from consumers?  I remember something about "STEAM WAS MADE BY HITLER AND VALVE IS RUN BY ROBOTS" on the Natural Selection forum back when Steam came out, but never paid it much mind.  I for one welcome our new robot overlords.

[sinij]

sinij, can you explain exactly how Steam exploits goodwill to steal money from consumers?

They took existing product (HL1+mods) that most people purchased at some point and forced its users to beta-test new and buggy product  (Steam) that had nothing to do with original product. That and they used community to host clear majority of the initial Steam’s downloads. That and they still actively go after alternative HL1+mods matchmaking services so people have no ready alternatives to using Steam.

[WonderBrick]

I have not played any form of Half-Life/CS online for years(and when I did, I was using WON), so forgive this question:  As big as Gamespy is in the FPS/matchmaking arena, is there no Half-Life 1 support in Gamespy?

[ahoythematey]

I'd rather play over steam than gamespy arcade.

[Samwise]

sinij, can you explain exactly how Steam exploits goodwill to steal money from consumers?

They took existing product (HL1+mods) that most people purchased at some point and forced its users to beta-test new and buggy product  (Steam) that had nothing to do with original product. That and they used community to host clear majority of the initial Steam’s downloads. That and they still actively go after alternative HL1+mods matchmaking services so people have no ready alternatives to using Steam.

How did they force the users to beta-test the new product?  Did they send threatening letters to server operators telling them they had to switch over to Steam?

Did they charge money for any of this?  I sure didn't have to pay any money to register my old games over Steam.  In fact, during the beta, you didn't even have to have a pre-existing copy of Half-Life, so anyone could play for free.

If I recall right, the community volunteered to host downloads to make things easier - Valve didn't hold them at gunpoint.  Should they have refused and insisted that all downloads trickle through FilePlanet?  Did Valve charge the community members money for the privilege of hosting downloads?  Still not seeing the evil money-making scheme here.

As for matchmaking services... how exactly does Valve suck money from their customers by switching their matchmaking service from WON.net to Steam?  As previously mentioned, I sure didn't have to pay any money to move Half-Life over to Steam.

I ask again: where does the "using goodwill to make money" come in?  For any of these atrocities you list (oh no, they upgraded their multiplayer support and let us beta test it for free!)  to qualify as Valve making money, MONEY HAS TO CHANGE HANDS.  You get that, right?

[slog]

How did they force the users to beta-test the new product?  Did they send threatening letters to server operators telling them they had to switch over to Steam?

They turned off Won.  It was either Steam, or enjoy single player....

[Samwise]

How did they force the users to beta-test the new product?  Did they send threatening letters to server operators telling them they had to switch over to Steam?

They turned off Won.  It was either Steam, or enjoy single player....

If I recall correctly, they didn't turn off WON until after Steam had passed all its tests, gotten out of beta, and was in all ways a suitable replacement for WON.

And they still at no time made anyone pay for anything extra to keep playing their purchased games.  Correct?  So I'm still not seeing the whole evil moneygrubbing angle.  All I'm seeing is free upgrades and support more than five years after the product's initial release.

[Fabricated]

Edit: GOLD.

November 16th. About fucking time.

[Resvrgam]

I want to see 2 things: Deus Ex 1: Source ...

Deus Ex (not the awful sequel) is one of my favourite games and had resurrected my faith in the gaming industry (only to be pommeled relentlessly with the crap that's being excreted now).

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines looks as close to a Deus Ex (1) remake for the SOURCE engine.  I'm not really into Vampires and chicks with over-priced "goth-gear" but the gameplay I've seen looks to be very similar to Warren's magnum opus.  That's going to be interesting to see when it's shipped.

[schild]

Edit: GOLD.

November 16th. About fucking time.

Doom 3 went gold and was released a few months back.

Why the fuck do I have to remind people of this. IT'S THE SLEEPER SHOOTERS THAT SHOCK AND AWE, THE SLEEPER SHOOTERS!