Best duo paring?

[Slayerik]

The thing is, by asking to make 5, 10, 25 and 40 man content doable by 1-2 people, it's like asking to play baseball with 2 people per side.  There are just not enough positions to make it proper baseball.  It's just not designed that way.

So two things: first, why are we not allowed to say go play a single player game if that's the situation?  Why is that a copout?  If someone comes looking for bananas and all we have are apples, why can't we say "Yes, we have no bananas"?

Second, there are plenty of bananas.  Fully 90-95% of the game is possible solo or duo.  I can stand here and name off every instance and world encounter ever invented for 5+ people, but in three years I haven't even SEEN all the 1-2 person content.  There's just too much of it to mention.  Asking them to redesign the last 5-10% to suit your tastes is just greedy, really.

Sorry, I'm with this camp.

Stop being so anti-social. The 'pubbies' at least have the ability to say "LFG SM Monastery". As retarded as some of the people can be, in a game with 9 million players you can meet friends. One choice is to *gasp* join a large guild. Just use them when you need to for contacts around your level. You will find some cool peeps and some to avoid. If the guild chat is unbearable, leave. After a while you may even find yourself a part of someone else's core of friends. Latch on. People did this with our guild back in the day and I've become very good friends with them (even to the point we stay in contact after wow).

Or.....use a /who and find people around your level. Many times when leveling up I would see the SAME guys all over the place. Hmmm, they seem to play around my schedule. I'll say hi and see if he wants to try to 3 man RFK for fun. They may have some small guild that plays around your time. Never hurts to /t . This is all basic shit that most people picked up on years ago. Call me a dick, whatever. I'm a dick that is able to say "Hi" to a stranger without going into a "OMG can't talk to the pubbies" spasm.

[Ironwood]

You know you're in Dire Straits when Slayerik is giving you lessons in being social.

 

[Paelos]

I still think a key feature will be getting older dungeons down to a soloable level, especially when the 2nd expansion hits. At this point, they are actively trying to push people through old levels to get them quickly to the expansion content. I would imagine now that they removed the elite status from a lot of the outdoor quest mobs, they might remove the elite status from some of dungeons like Deadmines, SFK, Scarlet Monastery, Uldaman, ZF, and Sunken Temple.

[Nebu]

You guys seem to have completely missed the point. 

1. It's not about being social/antisocial, it's about wasting my time.  I've led guilds in nearly every western MMO to date and am perfectly capable of making groups and running them through PvE encounters (which are largely trivial).  I'm tired of having to depend on the schedules and behaviors of others in order to have fun.  This was the real origin of my whine and I've already apologized for it.

2. The most reasonable point I've seen so far is that from Jayce and his baseball analogy.  I had considered that many times in the past and realize that it's a great way to rationalize the need for groups in these games.  It's a collection of specialists built to accomplish a task.  This is a community building exercise and is a carrot used to aid in retention.  It's a solid marketing strategy.  I'll remind you that some of the tightest communities I've been in online were in MUDs back in the early days.  Those were all solo combat games with a world/community feel.  It is entirely possible to have a massive online community without having to force people to face encounters together, but I do understand that this adds variety to the gameplay.  I'm not stupid. 

3. Most of the arguments I've been making in this thread were born more out of exposing people's elite attitudes toward gaming more than it was to solidify my stance.  See point 2.

4. Some of you posting in this thread need to ask yourselves: Why does anyone give a shit what loot others have, what instances others have done, and how many collectibles others have?  Do areas really have to be exclusive to be meaningful?  Do people need to feel like they have done something special in a game to have fun?  The only time I've ever cared about loot was when it imbalanced my pvp experience.  As far as loot and pve go, I could care less. If people can get their hands on a sword of uberfoozleslaying, then more power to them.  It's transparent that the whole game is based on the same get-loot-to-kill-mobs-to-get-better-loot-to-kill-tougher-mobs paradigm.   

5. Having played in very strong guilds, you all must also realize that being in a strong guild is also antisocial to a degree.  I'd wager that anyone currently involved in a tight play group seldom raids with people outside that circle.  Yes, you play in groups on a consistent basis, but how much does that really affect the larger server community.  There are many solo/duo players out there that will go outside of their circle because they have to. 

Having said that, I don't see what it hurts to give customers more choices.  You can scale any instance to different levels of difficulty just has been done in other games.  You similarly scale the loot to fit the difficulty.  It takes a little testing to balance, but would offer people more play options in the end.  I realize that Blizzard has no reason to waste resources on this and I'm fine with that.  I just hope that one day it may be an option so that the more casual gaming crowd won't feel as shut out of certain aspects of the game.

[Slayerik]

You know you're in Dire Straits when Slayerik is giving you lessons in being social.

 

I laughed then I eyerolled. True story.

[Paelos]

4. Some of you posting in this thread need to ask yourselves: Why does anyone give a shit what loot others have, what instances others have done, and how many collectibles others have?  Do areas really have to be exclusive to be meaningful?  Do people need to feel like they have done something special in a game to have fun?  The only time I've ever cared about loot was when it imbalanced my pvp experience.  As far as loot and pve go, I could care less. If people can get their hands on a sword of uberfoozleslaying, then more power to them.  It's transparent that the whole game is based on the same get-loot-to-kill-mobs-to-get-better-loot-to-kill-tougher-mobs paradigm.   

As far as loot goes, for many it's simply a stumbling block to the next instance. I think we all want to fight Illidan and see the Black Temple, but we have to slog through content to get there. I don't think they need to make content exclusive persay, but I do think they need to make it take time to get there or everyone will have the best stuff and simply finish. It's all about making people take more time to get things done that they want to do for money. So, I think you recognize that fact.

There are some out there who like to preen around in front of the bank and whatnot. Those people are usually made fun of by everyone else except the pathetic teenagers who wish mommy would let them play enough to be a lootwhore. I don't think you need to have something special alone in the game to have fun as I do have something special in that regard, the Mount drop off Attunemen. That horse is cool-looking but the novelty wears off quickly. The point of the game is to always have a challenge, and to always have a challenge you always have to have a current unattainable goal. Right now for many that unattainable goal is the Black Temple.

For me it's an enjoyable paradigm because I enjoy the ride. Getting to the goal would kill my fun. I think the day I sunk my sword into Illidan's cold, dead corpse with no other content available beyond that, I'd be more sad than happy because the ride would be over. In that regard, I don't ever expect that to happen.

[murdoc]

I just want gear that's good enough to be competitve in PVP with.

[Nebu]

I just want gear that's good enough to be competitve in PVP with.

That's what I'm hoping for as well.  In DAoC I could run around the frontiers and be successful with pretty cheap templates.  Since I'm unfamiliar with the level 70 pvp game in WoW, I'm not sure what to expect.  I'm afraid I'm going to be disappointed.

[Chimpy]

I just want gear that's good enough to be competitve in PVP with.

That's what I'm hoping for as well.  In DAoC I could run around the frontiers and be successful with pretty cheap templates.  Since I'm unfamiliar with the level 70 pvp game in WoW, I'm not sure what to expect.  I'm afraid I'm going to be disappointed.

PvE instance and raid drop gear is relatively moot in the current lvl 70 PvP game. All it takes to get viable PvP gear is a massive timesink of honor/mark of honor farming, as the gear with all the PvP type stats are bought that way. Most of my pve gear is almost junk for doing PvP as I walk in with a 2-3k HP deficit vs "wefare" pvp epic'd people. In many cases, the PvP gear is actually better than the PvE gear for PvE purposes.

If you have a decent combo of 2 people, you can do well enough in 2v2 to get some of the gear there while doing the battlegrounds for the slots you can buy from them.

[Nebu]

Unfortunately, the guy I duo with has ZERO interest in pvp.  I'm left to fend for myself. 

I need to learn more about the BG's (level ranges etc.)  I may have to blow off the pve grind and spend more time in there.  I've actually considered just rerolling a solo toon on a pvp server, but I wanted a safe place to re-learn game mechanics before I did.

[Rasix]

Too bad you weren't playing WoW when I still was.  I needed a good pvp partner for my laser turkey.  However, I was on one of the more podunk, carebear PVE servers.

[murdoc]

I've got a 29 undead Rogue that I'm hitting WSG and AB with right now. My problem is trying to figure out how exactly to spend those 20 talent points he has.

I'm terrible lining up a backstab, so I'm mainhanding a sword and usually opening with cheapshot since I'm usually playing with a Shaman/Warrior duo. They tend to defend, so I hang around in stealth and peel off the Shaman, or assist the warrior. Any spec recommendations would be grand.

[Merusk]

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-talents.xml?r=Alleria&n=Thrissa

There's what I'm using on my twink of the same level.  It' snot bad, as I play the same way you just described, but I'm sure there's better specs out there. 

[Xanthippe]

Unfortunately, the guy I duo with has ZERO interest in pvp.  I'm left to fend for myself. 

I need to learn more about the BG's (level ranges etc.)  I may have to blow off the pve grind and spend more time in there.  I've actually considered just rerolling a solo toon on a pvp server, but I wanted a safe place to re-learn game mechanics before I did.

I made a draenei shaman who I'm keeping at 29 for now, just to play WSG and AB with.  There's some items to get in the little battlegrounds that are pretty good - trinkets, rings, weapons, armor.  Unfortunately, you have to reget them for the next bracket once you level.

Battlegrounds can be very fun.  They can also be very frustrating.  I'd avoid the 19 BG because it's completely filled with twinks.  The 29 isn't quite so bad, although there's still quite a few people running around wearing that 30 stam leg armor.  I imagine as you go up in level, the twink to normal player ratio decreases.

World pvp is pretty much dead.  I mean, sure, there's the occasional gank, particularly if there are resources in the area, but it's not constant pvp all the time.  Roll on a pvp server, see how you like it.  My first server was pve, and it was boring as hell (this was before bgs, though) so I rerolled on a pvp server.

[Xanthippe]

There are some out there who like to preen around in front of the bank and whatnot. Those people are usually made fun of by everyone else except the pathetic teenagers who wish mommy would let them play enough to be a lootwhore.

I'm surprised you didn't call them Timmies.

I suspect many of those who preen around are children.  My 9 year old daughter hangs out in Stormwind, playing dress up, going swimming, occasionally dueling, and mostly just "playing."

People of all ages play WoW - a lot of kids do for sure. 

[Xanthippe]

I've got a 29 undead Rogue that I'm hitting WSG and AB with right now. My problem is trying to figure out how exactly to spend those 20 talent points he has.

I'm terrible lining up a backstab, so I'm mainhanding a sword and usually opening with cheapshot since I'm usually playing with a Shaman/Warrior duo. They tend to defend, so I hang around in stealth and peel off the Shaman, or assist the warrior. Any spec recommendations would be grand.

Why don't you use a mace?  Don't you get a nice stun effect from those?

[murdoc]

Why don't you use a mace?  Don't you get a nice stun effect from those?

Don't you have to spec in maces to get that? You need 20 points in combat to be able to, and I'm only lvl 29. It is the direction I'm gonna go, but right now, with my limited play time, I just log in to get a game or two of low-level BG in.

[Nebu]

I have mace specialization on my solo rogue and love it.  Were I to group more, I'd probably switch to daggers for the additional positional damage.  As to the question; you're not quite high enough to start speccing in mace yet.  If you solo a lot on your rogue, I recommend it highly.

[Chenghiz]

Weapon availability for a rogue is pretty limited leveling up, too... especially if you're not keen on hitting the AH for a BOE blue or two every 10 levels. Swords are definitely the easiest to procure, through questing.

[bhodi]

... Were I to group more, I'd probably switch to daggers for the additional positional damage ...

Don't bother. The only time daggers do more damage than sword rogues is on raid boss fights where you're staring at monster-ass for 2+ minutes and damage figures start evening out. Theorycraft says daggers do ~10% more damage, however that 10% is easily gobbled up in maneuvering time -- so much so that on 'trash mobs' like normals or lower level elites, sword rogues will always win in speed because they can attack sooner and get the first hit in -- that one extra sword hit skews the percentages quite a bit.

That, and soloing as a dagger rogue is simply less efficient and slower.

This is coming from a die-hard dagger rogue; I didn't touch a sword except when my daggers broke -- and I played for 1.5 years and killed c'thun :)

[murdoc]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Ursin&n=Sawbone

This is where I sit ATM. Took Subtlety just for 5/5 in Camo. Being able to move quicker in stealth is pretty sweet. Figured I'd try it out for a couple weeks and see what I think.

[Nebu]

What I've discovered is that there are two different types of rogues to play.  There's the type I've been playing lately which is really a dual weilding warrior with some tricks (mace spec and almost all of my points in the combat tree) or you can play a more stealthy assassin type.  I prefer the first for the pve grind, but see how the latter could be more immersive/enjoyable.  I did enjoy using my stun and runnign around the back of things to get off a backstab.  It helped me feel like the PvE was more interactive.  Let me know what you think of the new spec.  I'm not yet 70, so the whole thing is still an experiment to me.  I do know that Rogue is the class for me.  The combination of tricks and high dps makes for the most enjoyment, especially solo. Granted, it does have its frustrating moments.

[murdoc]

I like the spec, but I have realized that it didn't matter whatsoever how I specc'd, it's all about the gear.

[Nebu]

I like the spec, but I have realized that it didn't matter whatsoever how I specc'd, it's all about the gear.

Truth.  Playing in a shaman/warrior tandem at the moment and we do well everytime I can afford to upgrade my gear (every 5 levels or so).  I'm about ready to scrap the warrior (almost 40) until my rogue hits 70 and can farm decent gear for it on a consistent basis. 

[murdoc]

Speccing 5/5 for Camo has been great for BG though.

[Phunked]

In terms of most represented in the top 2v2 brackets (PvP):

Druid+warrior

Pally+ warrior

Warlock+ shadowpriest

In general, druid+ warrior is agreed to be the most powerful combo, although some match ups can be annoying without a dispel. In general though, any two classes played well together can do rather well.

For PvE, any two classes work well. Preferably one with a cc and one with a heal, but beyond that anything works.

Regarding sword vs. dagger rogues:

For leveling, swords/daggers/fists is the best set up. Sinister strike >>> backstab for just killing crap. Also, combat has way more tricks than assassination.  There are probably more decent swords on your way up to 70 so just use those.

For raid level DPS, combat swords is (with the new hemo nerf) still the best raid dps spec. Sadly daggers is weaksauce PvE now ( PvP as well).