Turbine sacks Jeff Anderson

[Merusk]

Oh on the lifetime thing, is $250 or 200 a good deal for the company? Well, I have never spent that much on a single game except for, you guessed it, UO. It's a good deal.

So would (or did) you, and the rest of you folks saying it's a good deal, dump $200 into LOTR?   I'm betting most of the folks who did weren't in fact the casual user, but the hardcore MMO fans who DO play a single game for a year or more.   That's why I think it wasn't a good idea, but then only Turbine knows for certain what that demographic looks like.  We'd need someone in Turbine to come forward and say "well fuck, that wasn't a good idea," but that isn't likely to happen.

[Tebonas]

I am a casual user (I play about two weeks every two or three months before I lose interest in MMOs and waste my time otherwise) and I'm sure I am a good deal for Turbine, because up to now I just bought another MMO for a free month and never looked back at it and now I just relog into Lotro, because it is paid for anyway. And it is a good deal for me because I don't pay 15 to 20 Euros for two weeks (like I did with EQ and EQ2 and WoW regularly) or 60 to 80 Euros for a new game box every time the MMO fever gets me again.

[Venkman]

Ya know, I question that use of "casual" and "hardcore" in the context of MMOs. Who's more likely to jump games, follow new ones, hope to get into betas to chase new experiences? And of course I mean the "casual MMO player", not the actual "casual" (snack) gamer out there.

I'd actually say a lifetime fee is more appealing to a casual gamer because they a) have just enough experience with these games to think it's a good deal; and, b) are not the type to game jump anyway.

I don't think many of us fall into that category. But think of the people we play with, the ones who only left EQ1 for WoW and those who'll only leave WoW for WoW2 or whatever. Unless SOE and Blizzard had some insane ability to attract, most people who played EQ1 in the heydey weren't constantly needing to be replaced. WoW's sustainability also arguably shows they're keeping more than they need to attrack.

So who's staying? It can't all be a bunch of Raiders. We know how niche that activity can be. So is it a bunch of people who are perfectly happy gaining one or two levels a week in their 5 hours of gameplay a week within a very polished world against which everything else either pales or isn't even worth checking out?

[Soukyan]

AC2 had everything going for it except one thing, it wasn't any fun to play.

I had a blast playing that game. But as is always the stated case, I am the only one here who did. ;) Anomalous am I.

[LC]

I remember driving for an hour to pick up my copy of the Turbine 2 Engine Demo Asheron's Call 2. It had an awful 1-0 combat system and some monsters, but that was about all it had. People were having more fun petitioning each other for bad language.

 I still haven't gotten a refund.

[Nebu]

I had a blast playing that game. But as is always the stated case, I am the only one here who did. ;) Anomalous am I.

I've stated a number fo times in the past that I enjoyed AC2 early on as well.  You're not alone.  You should be ... but you're not.

[LC]

I had a blast playing that game. But as is always the stated case, I am the only one here who did. ;) Anomalous am I.

I've stated a number fo times in the past that I enjoyed AC2 early on as well.  You're not alone.  You should be ... but you're not.

I bet both of you enjoy hobbies like dust collecting.

[Nevermore]

Most fun part of AC2:  The music system.  I was only in the beta but finding instruments and playing with other players was more fun than any other part of the game.

[Arthur_Parker]

Not seen it mentioned.

Walt Yarbrough has left EA Mythic to join Turbine working on something new. 

Also Jason Booth left Harmonix in August and has joined a new startup company called Conduit Labs with two other ex AC1 devs...

[Merusk]

Saw this mentioned elsewhere:

The guy named as new Pres of Turbine, Jim Crowley, has notable experience with one thing.  Prepping companies to be sold.  All his other work was in the telecomm industry.   Let the wild speculation begin!  (As that's all it really is.)

[shiznitz]

$299 is a more reasonable price, but offering lifetime subscriptions is still crazy. Turbine must be in a liquidity crunch.

No it isn't. 20 months is a long time in gaming. Most MMOG enthusiasts will leave a game for a few months now and then. However, with the $199 deal out there I would expect very few to pay $299. You just feel like you are getting screwed at $299 with $199 available to others.

[sam, an eggplant]

20 months is a long time in gaming. Most MMOG enthusiasts will leave a game for a few months now and then.

Really? Don't most people play for a year or two straight, burn out, quit for at least a year, then return at a more casual level off and on? That seemed to be the way EQ worked. If a player gets through the first month and pays for the second, he's hooked for at least a year.

[cmlancas]

I used to think the same thing.

Then I played EQ2, WoW, VG... list goes on.

Then I realized back then there wasn't much to play.

[shiznitz]

20 months is a long time in gaming. Most MMOG enthusiasts will leave a game for a few months now and then.

Really? Don't most people play for a year or two straight, burn out, quit for at least a year, then return at a more casual level off and on? That seemed to be the way EQ worked. If a player gets through the first month and pays for the second, he's hooked for at least a year.

Most of the people we play with, probably. Not most of the people playing. But I am just guessing. For example, I have been an almost 4 year subscriber to EQ2 but PS and CoH were always short stints.

[Merusk]

Most of the folks I play with play for a long, long ass time.  Not just the raiders, but the casual folks who are just now getting their first level 70 character.  Those casuals that quit don't go back to a game, they're done.

The Hardcore (timewise, as in "they're always fucking on!)/ raiders I've played with will quit for a few months/ take some time off then come back to the game, unless they found something else to nab them in the downtime.  Typically they come back, however.

Right now, I've only met 5 people who've left WoW for good.*  As mentioned, they're all LOTR freaks, so they'll be there until that game closes down. 

* I don't count those here among those numbers.  You're all too jaded and desire too much from what most see as a hobby/ way to waste time.  Most of the folks I'm speaking of would call themselves "gamers" at about #8 on a list of top-10 activities. :-D

[Xanthippe]

I have to think that Lifetime subs are a good idea.  It means it's free to check up on an MMO,  and maybe get back into it.  If you get back into it,  you tend to drag a couple friends with you.  Kind of guarantees you'll never hit a position like DAoC where you have people quiting from burnout,  then other people quiting because the place is depopulated.

I know with Magic Online,  since you can screw around in casual for free,  I'll go a couple months without logging in.  That get sucked back in because I go check the casual/new cards and find something I like to do. 

I played in the LOTR beta, and toyed with the idea of buying the lifetime sub, but realized that to pay for me, I'd have to play it beyond the 3 or 4 months I figured I would initially play it, and the month after a year that I'd check back in to play it.  In fact, I could check back in for a month quite a few times before paying for the lifetime sub.

I did check out, but haven't checked back in, and don't really anticipate doing so.

[Jamiko]

Official Press Release

Mostly just telling us what we already know.

I just read this at Next Generation:

A Turbine rep told Next-Gen that the hiring of Crowley was a decision made by the company's board. The rep said that former studio boss Anderson, who himself is on the Turbine board, will remain within the company, although his exact role is yet to be determined.

[shiznitz]

Official Press Release

Mostly just telling us what we already know.

I just read this at Next Generation:

A Turbine rep told Next-Gen that the hiring of Crowley was a decision made by the company's board. The rep said that former studio boss Anderson, who himself is on the Turbine board, will remain within the company, although his exact role is yet to be determined.

So now we know Jeff owns enough to stock to stay on the board even though the other shareholders (the VC guys) don't want him running the firm.

[Yegolev]

Executives are never fired in "real" business.  Our last CEO is now a "consultant", for example.  I am pretty sure he does exactly nothing, since we never hear about him, but he remains on the payroll for appearances.

[WayAbvPar]

Executives are never fired in "real" business.  Our last CEO is now a "consultant", for example.  I am pretty sure he does exactly nothing, since we never hear about him, but he remains on the payroll for appearances.

If it is Robert Dunder, make sure he gets a safe ride home.

[Yegolev]

I was thinking of Doug Ivester, but it's not like he would actually drive into the office.  The Company installs corporate-grade lines into their homes, I hear a T1 but it's been a while.  The execs don't mingle with the normals for the most part, although I used to see Neville Isdell in the cafeteria a lot shortly after he took the job.

[Arrrgh]

Executives are never fired in "real" business.  Our last CEO is now a "consultant", for example.  I am pretty sure he does exactly nothing, since we never hear about him, but he remains on the payroll for appearances.

The master doesn't talk, he acts. When his work is done, The people say, " Amazing we did it, all by ourselves!" (Lao Tzu)

[Morat20]

Executives are never fired in "real" business.  Our last CEO is now a "consultant", for example.  I am pretty sure he does exactly nothing, since we never hear about him, but he remains on the payroll for appearances.

And he gets the paycheck. Excessive executive compensation is even worse when you realize that out in the business world, half your board sits on at least two other boards, and draws ridiculous salaries from each.

Of course, I once saw a guy get 40 million for driving down stock prices to half the value when he arrived, presiding over massively falling sales, a number of scandals, and in generally screwing up in every possible way. Then I saw him get hired by someone else for another multi-million dollar deal.

[taolurker]

Totally the wrong connotation for that Taoist quote, which doesn't talk about corporate bigwigs getting paid for doing nothing, and is more saying that a true leader works the fields himself and then the people amaze at how much easier it was because the master was there toiling along with them.

Coca-Cola execs sit back and rake money, and if Yeg didn't see him then he surely wasn't there working.

[Hound]

I bought the 200 dollar lifetime, and feel like it was worthwhile but I don't tend to game jump much. UO to DAoC to EQII all of which I played for a minimum of 2 or more years before moving on. I have not logged in to LoTRO in a about a month now, I needed a break since I was a early beta tester and after a year of 20 + hours per week in the game I was starting to suffer burn out. I Will probably start back this weekend but I doubt I will be doing the 20-30 hours a week I was playing because I have rediscovered reading and cooking for fun and those will hog some of the time I was devoting to gaming.

Back to the original topic, I love the game but I think Turbine was expecting more in terms of subscribers. Still as long as the game keeps running for a couple of more years at least I will have gotten my moneys worth.

[Soukyan]

Official Press Release

Mostly just telling us what we already know.

I just read this at Next Generation:

A Turbine rep told Next-Gen that the hiring of Crowley was a decision made by the company's board. The rep said that former studio boss Anderson, who himself is on the Turbine board, will remain within the company, although his exact role is yet to be determined.

So now we know Jeff owns enough to stock to stay on the board even though the other shareholders (the VC guys) don't want him running the firm.

I thought he was one of the founding members of the company. If that's the case, then perhaps he just wanted a turn "in the trenches", and now it's someone else's turn.

[Stormwaltz]

I thought he was one of the founding members of the company.

No. He was appointed by the board in 2001.

[CharlieMopps]

I thought he was one of the founding members of the company.

No. He was appointed by the board in 2001.

What are you doing in here? Aren't you supposed to be working on the Ray-gun version of Wow?

[MournelitheCalix]

Then I realized back then there wasn't much to play.

Honestly I think this is the reason WoW managed to maintain high numbers.  Right now the industry is simply abysmal for the consumer.  All there is, is a lot of clones of each other. 

[Pennilenko]

What are you doing in here? Aren't you supposed to be working on the Ray-gun version of Wow?

Ill play it. Sounds like fun.

Off Topic: The only thing stopping me from playing WoW is the graphics. Im a whore for graphics. Give me Pew Pew and Massively playable polish, I'm in, regardless of the IP.

[Numtini]

Oddly, sacking him led me to reup LOTRO for a romp. (My job is raiding EQ2, but I have to have some kind of leisure activity.)

On the sack, I guesstimated based on the 20% rule and the social pael back in May that LOTRO had 150-175k subs. I just did the same survey on Landroval and it's down from 1618 to 1071--this is the exact same social panel calculation that I did back in May a few weeks after release--friday night absolute high point prime time. So, LOTRO has lost roughly 1/3 of its players since then. If you extrapolate using the 20% rule from this number its about 101k subs. (That's combined 19 servers Euro and US).

In any case, there are about a thousand people on Landroval, down over a third since launch. My old guild, which once had to limit alts and kick inactives to keep within the guild limit, has 11 people online.

Yeah, I can see why he got canned. And I didn't think the launch numbers were very hot to start.

[WindupAtheist]

The idea of LOTRO plugging along at or below the same level as geezers like DAOC, UO, and EQ1 greatly amuses me.