Power problems

[Glazius]

My home-built computer has experienced some odd issues for a while now, and they've gotten worse recently. I can only assume they're somehow related to power.

For a while now it's treated "stand by" as "go into some bizarre limbo", and now that I've been leaving it on for long periods of time so it can function as a file server for an experiment I'm running, it's gone into that bizarre limbo twice overnight.

I say bizarre because the computer doesn't respond to the power button, at all, or the reset button. It just kind of sits there. This morning I got up, took it apart, checked the power supply with a power tester, plugged the cables back in, and when I flicked the power supply on again the machine booted up.

I also say bizarre because this is generally what I have to do to bring it out. Not disconnect the power supply from the board and reconnect it, necessarily, but leave the computer unplugged from main power for a long enough period of time and then plug it back in.

What's going on here? Can I fix it or should I look into a new machine?

A8N5X motherboard, BiOS v. 1003
500W power supply
1 SATA drive
ATI AllInWonder 800XT
AMD dual-core 2.2GHz
2 GB RAM
a no-brand DVD drive and a DVD-R drive

According to the power utility:

+12: 12.22 V
+5: 4.95 V
+3.3: 3.23 V
Core: 1.36 V

It runs about 50C, CPU and motherboard.

I don't have a voltmeter to go in and test individual points on my motherboard. Yet.

[Trippy]

Are you saying your machine is going to standby mode randomly on its own and you can't get it out of standby mode without unplugging the power supply or flipping the on/off switch on the back (if it has one)?

What happens if you manually put the machine into standby mode? Can you wake it up from that?

[Glazius]

Are you saying your machine is going to standby mode randomly on its own and you can't get it out of standby mode without unplugging the power supply or flipping the on/off switch on the back (if it has one)?

What happens if you manually put the machine into standby mode? Can you wake it up from that?

If I manually put the machine on standby I have to cut the power, leave it off for a while, and then reconnect it. Sometimes several times in a row, and I'm not sure if it's the repetition or the amount of time it spends unplugged.

That doesn't bring it "out of standby", of course, it has to boot up again.

I don't think it's going into standby overnight. I've checked my power settings and they're set to never go into standby or hibernate. I just know that the same thing works to let me turn the machine on again.

[Engels]

This is probably been checked, but does the BIOS have any wierd power settings? I know that my new board has different programmable functions for the power buttons on the machine, and they do not work as advertised. They work one way on one particular case, but entirely differently on a different case.

(as an aside, I've found that of all things, my video card's fans go full tilt when coming out of stand by. I have to reboot the machine to make them go into 'moderate spin' mode again. In this case, I blame NTune, Nvidia's dubious chipset/gpu controller software).

[Trippy]

What happens if you disconnect both of the DVD drives and take out 1 GB of RAM?

[taolurker]

I'm actually thinking that by what you are describing that it's not a power issue, and it makes me think it's more of a HD one... So I'll start with that.

From the desktop, right click on an empty spot and select Properties from the drop down. Then select the Screen Saver tab, and then from the bottom of that tab select the Power button. You can use this to change the power settings, and my guess is that the power is being cut to your HD while in standby, which it's unable to recover from.

Under the Power options make sure that the only thing that power save is enabled for is "Monitor" and that all the other power saves are set to "Never", including Standby but especially for "hard disks".

The HD losing power on standby is possibly causing the HD to hard lock, and then restoring the power to it causes the drive to get stuck in a bad cycle. This might cause it to be unable to spin up correctly unless it's idle (off) for a certain period of time.

If this IS the problem, I'd also suggest doing a Scandisk and Defrag too...

Try that, or write back if you've already ruled this out and want more help.

[Glazius]

I'm actually thinking that by what you are describing that it's not a power issue, and it makes me think it's more of a HD one... So I'll start with that.

I'm not sure how it could be an HD issue, exactly. The computer stops responding to the power button or any attempts to wake it up when it's in standby. If you think it could be the HD causing that, I'll give it a whirl.

[Murgos]

I'm going to go with, "Your BIOS settings don't have Soft Power On/Keyboard power-on from sleep as enabled." for $1000 Alex.

[taolurker]

Because the info I provided enables you to disable Standby as well, I'd assume that even if it doesn't completely solve the issue that it is a valid work around.

Assuming that he was able to use the power/reset without problems previous to this, and when the machine isn't locked, it makes it seem like tampering with BIOs is not the solution.

[Murgos]

Bet you a dollar there is a setting in his BIOS that says PS2KB wake from S3 [DISABLED].  99% chance it's under ACPI Configuration or Power Management or something similar.

There is also a very good chance that there is a setting for a quick press of the power button to wake from S3/S4/S5 (which is called Soft Off) as well.

This tells the motherboard that when the OS puts you into sleep/standby (Or as they call it S3) that the MB needs to monitor the PS2 port for interrupts.  Some MB manufacturers leave these things disabled by default.  Check your manual to be sure.  Also S5 may be called G2.

But you enjoy that tech career anyway because this is obviously a HDD issue and it's a much better idea to disable the proper functioning of the computer than to solve the root cause.

[taolurker]

Actually, as a rule in tech support you always eliminate the easiest option first, but I haven't worked in tech support for 5 years.

As far as tampering with the BIOs, I never recommend people go changing BIOs settings until after everything else has been tried first. Assuming the machine has these off in BIOs, or that something recent made these magically change is where you are probably wrong. If there was never an issue previous to this, then why all the sudden would the BIOs even need to be tampered with?

As far as proper functioning of a computer, and turning the power settings of the HD to "never" off, this is something that is easy to change and won't effect the stability of the system overall, where tampering with the BIOs (PS2 settings, interrupts and ACPI) can make machines not even boot.

Glazius hasn't responded, but disabling the power off of the HD is something to do first, before BIOs... Unless you are masochistic, which I wouldn't doubt either.

[Glazius]

I haven't responded because, it being working hours, I'm not at home right now. Unlike a child, a PC does not give you social approval to beg off your workday when something untoward happens to it.

[Murgos]

As far as tampering with the BIOs, I never recommend people go changing BIOs settings until after everything else has been tried first. Assuming the machine has these off in BIOs, or that something recent made these magically change is where you are probably wrong. If there was never an issue previous to this, then why all the sudden would the BIOs even need to be tampered with?

As far as proper functioning of a computer, and turning the power settings of the HD to "never" off, this is something that is easy to change and won't effect the stability of the system overall, where tampering with the BIOs (PS2 settings, interrupts and ACPI) can make machines not even boot.

Glazius hasn't responded, but disabling the power off of the HD is something to do first, before BIOs... Unless you are masochistic, which I wouldn't doubt either.

You are recommending that he 'fix' that he can't bring his computer out of sleep mode by disabling power-saving on his hard drive.  Sure, it will work, but only because he is disabling the computers sleep function.  If he wanted it not to sleep then he needs to turn off sleep after delay.  Setting the HDD to never sleep is not the 'easy' solution it's a non-solution, the problem isn't the HDD going to sleep it's that it doesn't wake up.

There is nothing masochistic about toggling a switch from disabled to enabled in the BIOS so please stop filling the air with FUD.

When a computer goes into S3/S4/S5 and hasn't been told to monitor for Soft Power On then pressing the power button does nothing and you have to disconnect the wall power for a few seconds until the capacitors discharge after which the computer boots normally (though you will probably get a "System shut off unexpectedly error" at boot and the menu to start in Safe Mode/Normal Mode (in Windows).

This is exactly the situation he described and the solution of enabling Soft Power On/Wake from KB is the proper solution.

[Der Helm]

I have never used the sleep/standby function on any of my computers, where is the advantage ?

[Engels]

Conserves electricity. That's about it. May lengthen the life of some of your hardware, but that's voodoo speculation on my part.

[taolurker]

Lets see.. First Murgos, take a chill pill, because his issue could be any hundred different things, that not necessarily are connected to BIOS. Not every approach to a problem is the correct solution, and without testing to eliminate things you can't actually be sure what it is.

It may actually be a BIOs issue keeping him from recovering from standby, but what if the soft power is already enabled? What if the standby itself is the issue? Will doing BIOs alterations affect it if it's the OS/HD crashing? There's nothing to say it won't help, but it may not solve his issues, either.

Did you see he was using a SATA drive? and wanting to use it as a file server? WinXP really doesn't like standby on those drives (but I also didn't see posted what OS was installed). Using it as a file server would make me never put it into standby, and a HD lockup is what I'd rule out first.

(though you will probably get a "System shut off unexpectedly error" at boot and the menu to start in Safe Mode/Normal Mode (in Windows).

Was he seeing this message?

If he wanted it not to sleep then he needs to turn off sleep after delay.

Which I would've probably recommended next, after ruling out a HD issue... I probably would do six or seven other things before even having him open BIOs, but I also don't exactly have a quick fix (which I doubt yours is either).

I have never used the sleep/standby function on any of my computers, where is the advantage ?

There isn't an advantage. For a file server, it's something I can't see ever doing, which was why I suggested this first.

The isuee here could be BIOs related, it could be HD, but it maybe could be the Power Supply, a MB issue, a video lockup, or any of 100 other things.

PS I am attempting to rule things out, and if my help isn't wanted then Glazius can tell me not to respond.

[Engels]

Ok, back in the day, going into the BIOS was forbidden juju for most people. Nowadays, with the reset switch, unless you've had someone configure your computer in some wierd way with a RAID card, or some odd overclocking mechanics that'll do vile things to your hardware if you mess with it, its pretty safe to go into the BIOS.

In this case, I'm sorry, but the first and simplest solution is Murgos' theory about the soft off power switch. Yes, its in the BIOS, but the BIOS these days is hardly the evil den of manually set IRQs it used to be.

[Glazius]

You are recommending that he 'fix' that he can't bring his computer out of sleep mode by disabling power-saving on his hard drive.  Sure, it will work, but only because he is disabling the computers sleep function.  If he wanted it not to sleep then he needs to turn off sleep after delay.  Setting the HDD to never sleep is not the 'easy' solution it's a non-solution, the problem isn't the HDD going to sleep it's that it doesn't wake up.

There is nothing masochistic about toggling a switch from disabled to enabled in the BIOS so please stop filling the air with FUD.

When a computer goes into S3/S4/S5 and hasn't been told to monitor for Soft Power On then pressing the power button does nothing and you have to disconnect the wall power for a few seconds until the capacitors discharge after which the computer boots normally (though you will probably get a "System shut off unexpectedly error" at boot and the menu to start in Safe Mode/Normal Mode (in Windows).

This is exactly the situation he described and the solution of enabling Soft Power On/Wake from KB is the proper solution.

First, I think what was causing it was that my alternate admin account which I created a few days ago, before setting myself to Normal User (as a result of something I read that most malware problems are due to running as admin unnecessarily) was still using its default power profile, and the file server associates itself with the admin process.

Second, your technical explanation does fit what's happening. I tried just flicking the power supply off, leaving it for about 5 minutes, and powering back on. It's worked so far.

Third, yes, most of my power-on methods had been disabled in the BIOS. I've since reenabled them.

Fourth, and most unfortunately, that still doesn't fix my computer's refusal to wake up.

Here's a link to the manual if it'll help determine what my available options are.

[taolurker]

Was the power setting for the Hard Disks set to never?

Does it produce a boot up screen about recovering from an error? ScanDisk? Normal Boot up? What OS is it running?

If you disable the standby completely and allow the machine to idle does it still crash/freeze?

When you check the Control Panel>Admin Tools/Event Log does it have error logs in Hardware or Applications?

[Glazius]

Was the power setting for the Hard Disks set to never?

It is now. It was when I booted up the system earlier tonight, put it in standby, and found it completely unresponsive, so I had to leave the power off for a while and then turn it back on.

Does it produce a boot up screen about recovering from an error? ScanDisk? Normal Boot up? What OS is it running?

Windows XP. No errors show up on reboot.

If you disable the standby completely and allow the machine to idle does it still crash/freeze?

Well, I'll find out tonight.

When you check the Control Panel>Admin Tools/Event Log does it have error logs in Hardware or Applications?

Nothing I can find.

[Murgos]

Wake from S3/S4/S5 can take 30-45 seconds, during which it appears that the computer is doing nothing and then it will suddenly resume.  The fans may not come on until the system is 'up'.

I've found wake from USB to be flaky but wake from PS2KB and PS2M to be reliable so if you can, use a PS2 Mouse or Keyboard put the machine in Sleep and then press some keys/press some mouse buttons a bit and wait a few.

[Lt.Dan]

Not related to your problem but whenever my daughter is around am I'm the computer there are two buttons she tries to push: the power button on the case, and the standby button on the keyboard.  The power button I can understand since it's a blue LED, but the standby button is a tiny recessed button above the numeric keypad that I didn't even know exited until she pushed it.

Doubt that's your issue though.

[Salamok]

Is it possible that it is a heat related issue?  Have you tried blowing all the crap out of your computer and just leaving the case open for a day or 2 to see if that might be the issue.

[Glazius]

Is it possible that it is a heat related issue?  Have you tried blowing all the crap out of your computer and just leaving the case open for a day or 2 to see if that might be the issue.

Pretty sure it's not heat - like I said, the system runs along at 50 C, and it will remain in suspend forever even if I've just booted it up from a day of inactivity.

I am using a PS2 mouse and/or keyboard, but still nothing.