Nintendo's impressive achievement.

[schild]

Schild: About kids playing games, Julian tells me yesterday..."k' is off my KOF XI team" I was like, what? you been playing K' since 2k1! and he tells me, he replaced him with Clark. At this point the story could end, cause Clark is just freaking cool and he could justify the change in line up with just that, but instead, he says, "you need to teach me how to use Clark cause I need a throw character on my team, and also how to combo the command kick into the Clark tackle so I multi-shift terry in and land that Buster Wolf >  Power Stream combo...  he's growin' up Schild....

Taking K' off his team makes me want to beat him.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Schild: About kids playing games, Julian tells me yesterday..."k' is off my KOF XI team" I was like, what? you been playing K' since 2k1! and he tells me, he replaced him with Clark. At this point the story could end, cause Clark is just freaking cool and he could justify the change in line up with just that, but instead, he says, "you need to teach me how to use Clark cause I need a throw character on my team, and also how to combo the command kick into the Clark tackle so I multi-shift terry in and land that Buster Wolf >  Power Stream combo...  he's growin' up Schild....

Taking K' off his team makes me want to beat him.

F' that. K' is not nearly as cool as terry. But you can keep em' if you like that girlee man character type. Terry would beat that cats ass into oblivion. jajaja

[Kageru]

You guys are seriously using Madden as a statistical point? A peculiarly American game in the heart of the XBOX homeland? How about if you are going to draw inferences on a global market you use data that allows for those minute and irrelevant parts of the world that aren't in the US.

I don't like the term "casual gamers" much, but it is unarguable there are a variety of markets albeit with significant crossover.

Casual to me means that the gamer is time constrained, they can't afford to play often or for long periods. So games with insanely complicated control schemes (which are forgotten the next time you sit down) and requiring long gaming sessions, forming groups, insanely competitive play or rewards for massive time invested (achievements?) aren't going to work that well. You can be casual on any console, but are going to be better supplied on some than others.

Social means you game to play with others. So dominated by MMORPG's and team based games but also weird stuff like sims online, second life, and the multitude of odd asian titles.

Hardcore gamers are in it for the intensity of the experience. They tend to be non-social (because they want to focus on their own gameplay experience. They tend to be non-casual because they really want to immerse themselves in the experience. They demand that graphics, music and gameplay all come together so they can sink in to the point where it almost becomes real. Something like the wii is naturally incomprehensible. A board like this is, for talking about games, is likely to be skewed towards this category especially for some of the most active posters.

I think there's probably one or two more categories. I think one group consume games as media (eg. adventure games) and another as mental fodder (puzzles up to strategy).

[schild]

You guys are seriously using Madden as a statistical point? A peculiarly American game in the heart of the XBOX homeland? How about if you are going to draw inferences on a global market you use data that allows for those minute and irrelevant parts of the world that aren't in the US.

What global market? Madden sold more copies than the top 6 games in japan put together last year. Nothing in Europe came close. FIFA and WES maybe would have if they weren't in a transition period (this years iterations weren't that great - that said...)... FIFA and WES are just Madden for people who like Futbol.

So, yea, using Madden as a statistical point seems fairly reasonable.

We could use CARS to show how shitty kids games are still some of the best money makers in the industry. Second best selling game of last year, sold more than the top 4 Jpy games put together.

Basically Japan really doesn't matter for the non-japanese. America matters a LOT for smaller japanese companies (The N1s, KOEIs, etc of the world), and Europe is a big clusterfuck. No, really, it is. Localizations cost way too much when 5 languages are involved.

[Yegolev]

Schild: About kids playing games, Julian tells me yesterday..."k' is off my KOF XI team" I was like, what? you been playing K' since 2k1! and he tells me, he replaced him with Clark. At this point the story could end, cause Clark is just freaking cool and he could justify the change in line up with just that, but instead, he says, "you need to teach me how to use Clark cause I need a throw character on my team, and also how to combo the command kick into the Clark tackle so I multi-shift terry in and land that Buster Wolf >  Power Stream combo...  he's growin' up Schild....

Your boy kicks ass.

[CharlieMopps]

I'm sorry, but the WII kicks ass. I don't own one, but I totally understand whats going on with it. Finally, good game design trumps graphics. I've recently been invited to "WII parties" Yes, the WII is now on par with monopoly and charades.  While WE may think "YUCK" all those people that like party games love it... and they FAR FAR outnumber us. Nursing homes are even buying these things to exercise the elderly. When Nintendos president was asked if she was worried about the price drop for the PS3, she said she wasn't... because Nintendo didn't have the same audience as the PS3.

Would I want to sit home, alone, waving around a WII remote trying to play tennis? Hell no. Would I want to go to a party with 20 other people, get hammered and wave around a WII remote acting like an idiot? Now that sounds like a blast.

[schild]

Finally, good game design trumps graphics.

Finally?

What the hell are you talking about?

Look, it's not my fault the game playing board-game loving non-gaming public doesn't have a fucking clue what Culdcept, Singstar, or Guitar Hero is, but don't say stupid shit like that.

[HaemishM]

Would I want to sit home, alone, waving around a WII remote trying to play tennis?

I would.

As for "good game design trumps graphics" that should be a self-explanatory statement. However, it means that gorgeous, hi-def graphics only enhances a good game design, it can't substitute for good game design (and neither can story for that matter). Video game history is littered with such failures. Advent Rising is one that stands out off the top of my head.

[Grand Design]

Would I want to sit home, alone, waving around a WII remote trying to play tennis?

I would.

I wonder what Freud would think about the Wii-mote.

[Yegolev]

I'm sorry, but the WII kicks ass. I don't own one,

Whoops!

Finally, good game design trumps graphics.

Hey, what fucking games are you playing?  I need to find those.

[CharlieMopps]

Finally, good game design trumps graphics.

Finally?

What the hell are you talking about?

Look, it's not my fault the game playing board-game loving non-gaming public doesn't have a fucking clue what Culdcept, Singstar, or Guitar Hero is, but don't say stupid shit like that.

Ah, this is where you ragged on me... haha (to those that didn't read the other thread... ignore this line)

Sure I want more complex games for people like us. I personally think the market sucks for complex, interesting games. There isn't a single MMO I want to play right now. But that doesn't mean there isn't room in the market for the kind of thing the WII offers.

[Bokonon]

Personally, I think Nintendo's impressive achievement is the effect it's had on schild.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

[Xanthippe]

Personally, I think Nintendo's impressive achievement is the effect it's had on schild.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

 

[Rasix]

Would I want to go to a party with 20 other people, get hammered and wave around a WII remote acting like an idiot? Now that sounds like a blast.

Doing anything while getting hammered with 20 other people is a blast.  Standing is a blast if you drink enough.

[schild]

Would I want to go to a party with 20 other people, get hammered and wave around a WII remote acting like an idiot? Now that sounds like a blast.

Doing anything while getting hammered with 20 other people is a blast.  Standing is a blast if you drink enough.

Standing? Shit, try walking backwards!

[Jain Zar]

Personally, I think Nintendo's impressive achievement is the effect it's had on schild.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

He is as blind to reality as your average Manson supporter? 

Anyhow, Retrogaming Radio brought up a good point on why the Wii might have gotten so huge.  Wii Sports as a pack in.  Nintendo makes profit off every system.  Some people are buying it JUST to play the pack in game.  Many will buy other games since they already have the machine.  A huge install base means developers want to go where the money is.

It worked with Tetris for the original Gameboy which really was a complete piece of shit.  Great games, great battery life, virtually unplayable machine.

Yet it beat the snot out of its competitors.  A killer app pack in, a cheaper price and victory in spite of less than optimal hardware.

Except of course the Wii's hardware is only sub par if you need 1080p with 60fps, 8x antialaising antisotoropic filtered real time shadowed graphics for your gameplay. 

(And if you need that I am sad to inform you that you are stupid and should come to your senses and not worry if the game is photorealistic.)

[Roac]

It worked with Tetris for the original Gameboy which really was a complete piece of shit.  Great games, great battery life, virtually unplayable machine.

No.  The huge, huge selling point for the Gameboy was its battery life.  I had the Game Gear and loved it.  Very sweet handheld for the time, except for one huge hurdle - it could gobble up all its battery life in a couple hours.  I'd hit up the parents for more batteries, and they started to complain and later say no.  Quit asking for games on it if I couldn't play.  Price was also a problem for many people.

*shrug*

In order to play games, you have to get units into people's hands that they can play games with.  If it's too expensive to buy, too difficult to use, or requires too much equipment to setup (HD TV etc), it makes barriers that turn people away. 

[HaemishM]

Price was the biggest determining factor in the Game Boy's success over the clearly superior Game Gear and Atari Lynx. These were all out when I worked at EB in the dark ages, and we sold Game Boy's hand over fist, while there were tons of people that balked at the prices of the color handhelds.

[Driakos]

Price was the biggest determining factor in the Game Boy's success over the clearly superior Game Gear and Atari Lynx. These were all out when I worked at EB in the dark ages, and we sold Game Boy's hand over fist, while there were tons of people that balked at the prices of the color handhelds.

Don't forget the Turbo Express! It had the best screen of them all. Nice TV tuner too.

But yah, I sold more Game Boys than anything else.  Big library didn't hurt it either.

[naum]

Mario & Sonic Together!
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/09/27/mario-and-sonic-olympic-events-revealed/

[schild]

Too bad it's not a game.

[Litigator]

Price was the biggest determining factor in the Game Boy's success over the clearly superior Game Gear and Atari Lynx. These were all out when I worked at EB in the dark ages, and we sold Game Boy's hand over fist, while there were tons of people that balked at the prices of the color handhelds.

Software FTW. Tetris is so monumental, it invades schild's motherfucking.

I made the spaceship launch. Level 9. High 5.

[schild]

Everyone made the spaceship launch. Try getting anywhere near the high scores in Sega Tetris.

And yea, it's all about software. Enjoy Mario and Sonic's Olympic Clusterfuck.

[Jain Zar]

Everyone made the spaceship launch. Try getting anywhere near the high scores in Sega Tetris.

And yea, it's all about software. Enjoy Mario and Sonic's Olympic Clusterfuck.

People were able to play the original GB without going blind?  That thing was seriously unplayable in almost every environment and was hard to see even when you could.
It was mostly fine for Tetris, but everything else was a painful joke.
I remember using the earliest GB emulators in DOS and being amazed I could actually SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON.  Half the reason the Gameboy Color Pocket was a must have wasn't just that it could fit in a pocket, its that it had a screen that you could actually view a game in.  Its generally weak color abilities had nothing on a nice screen. 

[HaemishM]

I found out one of the Mario & Sonic Olympic Games was fencing. Fencing should be pretty fun, especially as a party game. It'll definitely be worth a rental.

[BigNastyCurve]

I think this is the Wii's Achille's heel.  The problem with selling a system to non-gamers is that by definition they don't buy games.

I agree.  I've been saying as much on other forums when I've expressed my disappointment with the Wii and its lack of AAA 3rd-party support, but it's rare that someone gets it.  Kudos.

[OcellotJenkins]

[Fordel]

I have to second the GameGear being a battery eating monster. Kinda defeats the purpose of a portable device if the only way it can work reasonably is by plugging it into the damn wall.

[Velorath]

So Nintendo announced a bunch of their Wii Ware titles recently (downloadable games like the VC stuff but original titles).  There's a new Dr. Mario game, Pokeman Farm (I guess you transfer Pokeman from Pearl and Diamond and then do... farm related stuff with them or something), Star Soldier R, and a new Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles game (not the same one that was already announced for the Wii), which I was particularly interested in, as early reports described it as a Country Building RPG.

More news about the game came recently from people who attended Nintendo Conference 2007, and I like what I'm hearing so far:

From ITMedia comes a lengthy report on Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Little King and the Promised Land. Now 60% complete, Square Enix had its Wii Ware launch title set up for play at the conference, giving players a chance to sample one day from the game's fourth chapter.

By the fourth chapter, your kingdom will have already developed into a castle surrounded by a castle town. However, when playing from the beginning, you start off with a blank patch of land. Your goal as king is to build this land up into a kingdom, and draw new citizens your way. To do this, you have to borrow the power of the Crystals to start construction projects.

You're free to create your town however you wish. You can build parks, bakeries, weapon shops, each drawing different types of people to your town.

New construction projects requires magic power, which you earn from quests. Although, from what we can tell, you don't actually take on the quests yourself. Occasionally, adventurers will come to your town. Using taxes that you've collected from your citizens, you can employ these adventurers to head out on the quests, where they gather the magic power that you require.

Your relationship with these adventures seems to be one of the main components of the game. You have to make sure the levels of the quests and the adventurers match, or the adventurers will fail at their quest, and may even lose their confidence. You have to also make sure you have an up to date weapons shop so that your adventurers have access to the best weapons.

Every night your quest takers return to town and give you a report on their exploits for the day. You can use the reports to determine if the adventurer is good at one particular skill but lacking in another, or if you need certain weapons. You may even need to change a character's job in order to complete a quest. That's right, job changing returns!

ITMedia reports that characters from the original GameCube title will make an appearance in Little King and the Promised Land. The game's storyline is split into chapters, which advance as you clear key quests.

Sounds almost like an FF version of Sim City in some respects (although I don't expect it to be anywhere near as complex as a Sim City game obviously).

[Baldrake]

I hate to make Schild jizz, but Slashdot is doomcasting the Wii. Apparently sales in Japan are way down and "the bubble inflated by the novelty factor is starting to deflate".

[HaemishM]

I hate to make Schild jizz, but Slashdot is doomcasting the Wii. Apparently sales in Japan are way down and "the bubble inflated by the novelty factor is starting to deflate".

Meh.

1) Japan is pretty irrelevant these days.
2) See all my rants about 3rd party devs treating the system like a leper and tossing out shitty shovelware titles. Casual gamers are even less likely to shell out $50 for shitty games than hardcore gamers.

[murdoc]

2) See all my rants about 3rd party devs treating the system like a leper and tossing out shitty shovelware titles. Casual gamers are even less likely to shell out $50 for shitty games than hardcore gamers.

Wait... what? Casual gamers are more likely to be influenced by advertising and not actually do some reading up on a game, but buy one because 'they liked the movie'. I would say that casual gamers are much more likely buy a shitty game.

Fixed typo

[stray]

I hate to make Schild jizz, but Slashdot is doomcasting the Wii. Apparently sales in Japan are way down and "the bubble inflated by the novelty factor is starting to deflate".

Meh.

1) Japan is pretty irrelevant these days.
2) See all my rants about 3rd party devs treating the system like a leper and tossing out shitty shovelware titles. Casual gamers are even less likely to shell out $50 for shitty games than hardcore gamers.

No, Japan is irrelevant just for the PS3 and 360.

[Jain Zar]

I hate to make Schild jizz, but Slashdot is doomcasting the Wii. Apparently sales in Japan are way down and "the bubble inflated by the novelty factor is starting to deflate".

Meh.

1) Japan is pretty irrelevant these days.
2) See all my rants about 3rd party devs treating the system like a leper and tossing out shitty shovelware titles. Casual gamers are even less likely to shell out $50 for shitty games than hardcore gamers.

No, Japan is irrelevant just for the PS3 and 360.

Japan is just irrelevant period.  Unless one are a moe loving weeaboo fuck. 

Or sadly, want games that aren't puzzle, sports, RTS, or FPS. 
You just get full animu in the face while playing. 

(On a positive note, the Wii Fire Emblem has IN BATTLE HARD SAVES.  I CAN FINALLY ENJOY THE FUCKING GAME INSTEAD OF HATING THE DEVELOPERS IN A WAY ONLY FOX NEWS CAN MATCH!!!)

[HaemishM]

2) See all my rants about 3rd party devs treating the system like a leper and tossing out shitty shovelware titles. Casual gamers are even less likely to shell out $50 for shitty games than hardcore gamers.

Wait... what? Casual gamers are more likely to be influenced by advertising and not actually do some reading up on a game, but buy one because 'they liked the movie'. I would say that casual gamers are much more likely buy a shitty game.

Fixed typo

Ok, let me elaborate. You sell a hardcore gamer a shitty game, it's likely he won't stop buying games. He's a hardcore gamer, if you put big tits, blood and stats on it, they will buy games again.

You sell a casual gamer one shitty game? The Wii goes in the closet and he's not likely to buy games again. They may be susceptible to advertising, but they know when they've been ripped off. And many of the shovelware Wii games I've played will make a motherfucker fell ripped off.