Nintendo's impressive achievement.

[Kageru]

Partly because it annoys schild, but mostly because it truly is a stunning achievement. I think everyone more or less assumed Nintendo would be the "also ran" of the current console generation. They didn't have a lot of developer support, the financial muscle of a company like Sony or Microsoft and were a lot more limited in their technical options. For them to achieve something like this;

"Cumulative sales of Nintendo’s Wii have overtaken those of the Xbox 360, making it the world’s best-selling next-generation games console in spite of having been on the market a year less than Microsoft’s machine." http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/51df0c84-6154-11dc-bf25-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b5df10621.html

Is really quite impressive. If they have half a clue I imagine the new money coming in is subsidising a hardware refresh soon and an enhanced wii capable of HD resolutions in a year or two. Long term victory will be determined by software availability of course, but it's hard to see such a large market not attracting developer interest.

[Triforcer]

I am counting the days until Super Smash Brothers Brawl.  If the online functionality is good, my career might lie in ruins shortly thereafter 

[hal]

I do not "yet" have a Wii. I am sure I will get one at some point . But the point is they "thought outside of the box" and have really brought a lot of non computer gamers into computer games. I love the fact that they succeed.

[Big Gulp]

If the online functionality is good, my career might lie in ruins shortly thereafter 

How could the online functionality possibly be good?  There are no microphones for the Wii, so you can forget about communicating with people you're playing with, and then you've got the insanely, stupidly, retardedly long friend codes.

Neither of those things make for "good" online functionality.

[Yegolev]

I submit that online will suck because it's Nintendo.  Friend codes.  There is a microphone for the Wii, insofar as any USB microphone will work if you have the right software (Boogie, for example).  However, using a Karaoke Revolution mic to play Call of Duty is retarded.

[Triforcer]

If the online functionality is good, my career might lie in ruins shortly thereafter 

How could the online functionality possibly be good?  There are no microphones for the Wii, so you can forget about communicating with people you're playing with, and then you've got the insanely, stupidly, retardedly long friend codes.

Neither of those things make for "good" online functionality.

Let me clarify what I mean by "good".  Not a lot of lag, and easy to get into a random game.  If it has friends codes, it will be retarded- no disagreement there.  But as always, I am puzzled by the insistence on being able to speak with random raging retards in games.  When I don't have to talk to people, I view it as a plus.

[schild]

There will be a shitload of lag and an asston of people for random games.

Take what you can get.

Nintendo is shooting for the LCD here and as far as consumers is concerned, it's all Wifi. Not a great combination for a fighting game. But then, fighting games aren't quite ready for prime time online play anyway.

[HaemishM]

As I blogged just today, the Madden 08 online play for the Wii is monkey ass. Shitastic, anal-pounding monkey ass. Thankfully, EA is using their own servers instead of anything Nintendo is providing, so I blame EA. Blaming EA is easy.

I have Mario Strikers Charged rented, but haven't tried the online play yet. The game itself is super fun. If the online play is mediocre, then Brawl should be good (in theory) because they will have time to fix it.

Expect the HD Wii in 2010, maybe Christmas 2009 depending on how pressured they feel.

The real problem I see with the Wii is that a good number of the latecoming developers are half-assing their games in a rush to get them on the box. Madden NFL 08 is a perfect example. It could not have been a lazier effort in terms of improvement over the 2007 version unless it exploded in your Wii. The Bigs is another good (or I should say BAD) example. Half-assed gameplay and half-assed game design.

The standard for not-half-assed game dev is Prince of Persia: Rival Swords, IMO. More developers need to follow the design credo that was behind that game.

[LK]

Wii's are also still incredibly hard to get.  My local game stores only have one or two in at a time and have been forcing people to accept package deals in order to sell them.  Sure, could've ordered online, but I prefer in-person stuff.

[Grand Design]

The Wii is the Toyota Camry of game systems.

[Yegolev]

Expect the HD Wii in 2010, maybe Christmas 2009 depending on how pressured they feel.

Well... if Nintendo feels any pressure, it would be to not modify the Wii.  It is selling fantastically, so any change would be viewed as bad.  Even without that, it goes against their LCD philosophy that got them to the #1 spot in the first place and they will need some dynamite to blast their asses into a redesign... I think.

Also consider that one of Nintendo's favorite things to do is sell people peripherals.  MicroSoft learned this one at the feet of the master, Nintendo.  Not that you can add HD via a peripheral, but Nintendo will most likely leverage their installbase to sell add-ons rather than try to sell everyone a newer and perhaps more-expensive console.  I, myself, would feel a tad irritated if they replaced my Wii with something better, and I'm a technophile.  They might, but I really don't think so.

[HaemishM]

The dynamite to blast their asses SHOULD be the fact that HD penetration will be getting to a critical stage by about the end of 2008. I know they are awful myopic, but I figure another year or two should be enough to shake them out of the no HD haze.

[Triforcer]

As I blogged just today, the Madden 08 online play for the Wii is monkey ass. Shitastic, anal-pounding monkey ass. Thankfully, EA is using their own servers instead of anything Nintendo is providing, so I blame EA. Blaming EA is easy.

I have Mario Strikers Charged rented, but haven't tried the online play yet. The game itself is super fun. If the online play is mediocre, then Brawl should be good (in theory) because they will have time to fix it.

Expect the HD Wii in 2010, maybe Christmas 2009 depending on how pressured they feel.

The real problem I see with the Wii is that a good number of the latecoming developers are half-assing their games in a rush to get them on the box. Madden NFL 08 is a perfect example. It could not have been a lazier effort in terms of improvement over the 2007 version unless it exploded in your Wii. The Bigs is another good (or I should say BAD) example. Half-assed gameplay and half-assed game design.

The standard for not-half-assed game dev is Prince of Persia: Rival Swords, IMO. More developers need to follow the design credo that was behind that game.

You are much more measured in word choice on your blog.  You must be catering to a more sophisty-cated crowd that would be offended by cumguzzling or monkey ass 

[Yegolev]

You can't sell to the masses with blue content.

[schild]

Yep. Impressive alright.

Famitsu says they just canceled Project H.A.M.M.E.R.

They now have what? 4 games in development that aren't non-games?

Mario Galaxy, SSBM, Disaster and uhhhhh uhhhhhhh.

No, that's it.

Yes, their popularity sure is impressive. Like a Furby. The product sucks.

[Yegolev]

More like Pong.  People bought Pong, not a console that could play Pong.  I bet most people out there want to "play Wii", not "Wii Sports on the Wii".  I'm not saying you are wrong, but I suggest you think of it like a Pong machine instead of an Atari 2600, might help your blood pressure.  If you think of it that way, Twilight Princess instantly becomes gravy instead of useless ballast.

Unless you have game consoles and a PC.  I need a GameCube emulator for the PS3 or PC, that would rock.

[HaemishM]

You can't sell to the masses with blue content.

You are correct, sir. I'm trying to not write game reviews like forum posting. I did say the online play was "fucking awful" because it really is.

I love when "hardcore gamers" get all snitty over the Wii's success, as if Nintendo has defied the holy writs by making a console that caters to more than Cheeto-encrusted fat asses longing for the next Japanese anime wankfest with leveling.

[Rasix]

I don't know if this is "impressive" as much as "expected" ever since the initial sales numbers came out for the Wii.  The console still has incredible buzz and is still selling out all over the place despite tales of still limited availability.  Although I did for the first time the other day see someone ask for a Wii and get one with no delay (at Best Buy).  Good for Nintendo, I'd hate the company that turned me into a gamer to wither up and die.

This still means shit to me and that's all I really care about.  Until this starts hurting or helping me by providing or denying me games, I don't care.  The business means nothing to me. I'm done with the Nintendo staples of Mario, Metroid and Zelda until they do something substantially new and interesting.  I'm not a social gamer, I don't need extra exercise through gaming, and quite honestly non-HD gaming that isn't stylistically amazing does very little for me anymore.  Only the best looking PS2 games are now barely above "too fucking ugly to play on my TV". 

Is this going to lead to good third party games or innovative first party games going to the Wii?  Is this going to lead to a HD Nintendo system?  Is this going to lead to less games coming out for the 360?  Is this going to lead to Sony making braindead decisions?

I just want my games, I don't care who finishes first, second or third. I don't care about my mom buying a Wii so she can waggle her arms. So far Nintendo's success so far as been a non-factor for me.  The PS2/360 current and future line ups have me satisfied for now.  I would like to have more games that are worth playing.   

There you have my frustrated attempts to clarify my feelings on the Wii's success.  It's the number one current generation console, and I would be pissed off if I got one for a gift next week for my birthday.   

[Fabricated]

I'm still convinced the Wii will reach a point of market saturation and totally stagnate in both console sales and attachment numbers.

Also, not counting turning it on for a firmware update, I am now at...nearly 2 months without turning my Wii on to play something.

[Margalis]

Mario Strikers online is apparently good and does not use friend codes for random matchmaking.

[schild]

So.

NPD sales numbers for games came out.

The XBOX (ONE) version of Madden sold more than the WII version.

Guys. This Wii fad...

is a fucking fad.

Top 20 SKU's
360 MADDEN NFL 08 896.6K
PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 643.6K
360 BIOSHOCK 490.9K
PS3 MADDEN NFL 08 336.2K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE 256.8K
WII METROID PRIME 3: CORRUPTION 218.1K
WII MARIO STRIKERS: CHARGED 147.4K
PS2 GUITAR HERO 2 W/GUITAR 145.4K
WII MARIO PARTY 8 138.3K
PS2 GUITAR HERO ENCORE: ROCKS THE 80S 127.1K
XBX MADDEN NFL 08
WII MADDEN NFL 08
NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A
360 TWO WORLDS
NDS POKEMON DIAMOND VERSION
NDS HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL: MAKIN THE CUT
360 GUITAR HERO 2 W/ GUITAR
PSP MADDEN NFL 08
NDS POKEMON PEARL VERSION
360 TIGER WOODS PGA TOUR 08

I lolled hard.

[LK]

I'm lolling that the PS2 version of Madden sold more than the PS3.

[Trippy]

You do realize that over twice as many Xboxes were sold than the Wii has sold to date, right?

[schild]

120 Million + PS2s.
4 Million PS3s.

And yes, I know the xbox sold twice as many. But the last xbox game that was released that had any business on the market was like oh, last year's Madden. I'm just saying. Hilarious.

[Big Gulp]

I think this is the Wii's Achille's heel.  The problem with selling a system to non-gamers is that by definition they don't buy games.

Nintendo is basically selling a toy, and like all toys the novelty fades.  Those people who bought the system to play tennis and bowling aren't looking for new shit.  Likewise, the people satisfied with Mario Party and minigames further push Nintendo into the "it's for kids" camp.  If E3 and Leipzig are anything to go on, Nintendo also seems to making a concerted effort to push their core franchises into the shadows; Metroid Prime Corruption and Mario Galaxy were shown in the back rooms at those conventions; up front they were showcasing the usual mini-game bullshit.  This kind of bias against serious gamers is going to bite Nintendo in the ass eventually, because counting on the casuals is a loser's bet, their attention will fade.

MS and Sony may not be pushing as many systems, but I'd wager that pound for pound their game attachment rates are astronomically higher than Nintendo's.  You can knock "core" gamers all you want, but they've kept this industry alive throughout the drought periods and aren't to be ignored.

[LK]

But how much per game sold and per system sold is Nintendo making versus the others per unit sold? If Nintendo sells 1/10 as many units but is making 10x the money, then it doesn't really make that much of a difference.

[schild]

They aren't. Wii Sports probably broke even as a pack-in. And Wii Play is bought for the Wiimote, even non-gamers think it's trash (except the shooting game). They are probably making less than a 360 title is on Wii Play.

These are the two best selling games.

[Litigator]

Nintendo has recorded massive profits every quarter since the DS Lite came out. The Wii hardware is actually profitable, unlike the Xbox and PS3, so Nintendo can turn bigger profits on a lower attach rate.

Additionally, Nintendo's focus on party games and "4 guys on a couch" multiplayer drives a lot of peripheral sales, although I expect Microsoft does very well on its subscription business.  I bought Wii on launch day, and the only software I've bought for it is Zelda, Metroid and Paper Mario. 

I definitely think Xbox is a more serious gaming system, but I like a lot of the games on the Wii, and it's very cheap compared to other systems. I am not looking to the Wii for online multiplayer. I'd maybe do a Smash Bros match or two with some of my friends, but I expect Halo 3 and my WoW arena team will be getting most of my multiplayer attention.

As for Madden sales, so what? The 360 version is clearly the flagship version of Madden.  The graphics are there, the online is there. The motion control doesn't bring a lot to the game and EA has not invested a great deal in making a great Wii version of Madden.  I do expect Corruption to ultimately outsell Bioshock, though.

[Triforcer]

Schild, could you tell me what stocks you would absolutely, positive recommend NOT buying?  I have a few hundred dollars to spend, and I'd like to have my own Caribbean island by 2008.

[schild]

Triforcer, I don't think you get it. It's great that Nintendo is making money. I have no problem with them making money. I have no problems with a profitable $250 system or a loss-leader $600 system. This isn't about money.

This is about games.

And the Wii ain't got shit.

Also, fads tend to make their parent companies a whole shitload of money.

[bhodi]

Doesn't the wii have the well reviewed new metroid game?

[HaemishM]

So many funny things, so little time.

The Wii's attach rate, last I heard, was BETTER than the PS3. This link says by Feb. of this year (before Metroid, before WiiPlay), the Wii had a 3.6 attach rate compared to the PS3's 3.4. No mention of the 360's. At launch time last year, the Wii had a 3.0 attach rate, compared to the PS3's 1.5 and the 360's 5.2, according to this link. Best numbers I can find from July of this year say the 360's attach rate is 6.1 (super deluxe gud) with no listings for the other two consoles. I've heard that the Wii's is 4.2, but I can't find a corroborating link I trust.

So yes, right now, the 360 is probably the top of the charts for attach rate. Only, they are still losing money on the hardware, while Nintendo is making money on the hardware AND the games. I hardly think a AAA title like say Gears of War is more profitable than a Wii AAA title like Metroid, simply because the budget for Metroid will likely be half what Gears was.

As for games, again, they don't have much for the hardcore. Woopie doo. As I've said before, FUCK THE HARDCORE. The hardcore is choking on their own dicks. The hardcore is the reason raiding is the only endgame in MMOG's, they are the reason games like Halo and Final Fantasy sell more than better games like Gears of War or Bioshock. They strangle the industry by not buying things that are different and insisting that only tiny iterations on the DualShock can be acceptable gaming interfaces.

The casual players buy games, they just don't buy HARDCORE games. They could give a fuck about the next Squeenix Movie with Levels, they want fun, quick, accessible games. And there are many many more of them than there ever will be of hardcore gamers. The right path is not to forget one segment or the other, but to adapt some of the things that interest casual gamers into the games already made. Ease of use, simple interfaces (with deeper complexity), smaller time commitments (or breaking the time commitments up into smaller chunks) etc. It doesn't have to be an either or.

As for Mario Strikers, having played the online version, it's butter. I had one really laggy game, and two games that were smooth as glass. I used no friends codes (though had the option if I had any friends connected). It was easier than finding a game in Madden, with much better results. I wouldn't worry one bit about the online component of Smash Bros.

[Rasix]

Halo's not a hardcore game, you fucking fruit.  What the fuck happened to you?

[HaemishM]

In terms of the casual gamer, yes it most certainly is. It's a shooter, which the casual gamer doesn't give a shit about. By casual gamer, I'm talking about the people who are buying the Wii that many of you here seem to hate so much.

Grandmothers aren't buying Halo (or other shooters). Housewives aren't buying Halo.

I put Maddenites in the same category of Hardcore Gamer as Halotards and Japantards.

[Rasix]

In terms of the casual gamer, yes it most certainly is. It's a shooter, which the casual gamer doesn't give a shit about. By casual gamer, I'm talking about the people who are buying the Wii that many of you here seem to hate so much.

Can we quit dumbing down the definition of casual gamer? If we keep at this pace, it's going to be only people playing mine sweeper or solitaire on their lunch break. Where does Metroid fit? Are you equally as pissed off that a hardcore game managed to bully it's way onto your waggle-wand, wave-a-mole casual box? What's Mario (Galaxy or Strikers, take your pick) then?  Takes coordination Grandma Sally can't handle.

The hardcore is the reason raiding is the only endgame in MMOG's, they are the reason games like Halo and Final Fantasy sell more than better games like Gears of War or Bioshock.

wut? See previous quote.

I put Maddenites in the same category of Hardcore Gamer as Halotards and Japantards.

Ok, you're just a fucking moron.  Case closed.  I know Maddenites that buy a console just for that game, own only that game and other EA sports titles, and couldn't get on XBL without technical assistance.

I don't hate anyone that buys a Wii or plays a Wii (hell, I may eventually have a Wii since my nephews have my gamecube).  They're just not relevant to me (as I'm likely as equally irrelevant to them).  Are you guys seeing that yet?  I'm not doomcasting or minimizing it's accomplishments.  I just want my "hardcore" games.  You know, the ones people play and talk about on this site. 

Edit: For the talk of the new Metroid, is anyone here actually playing it? Is it anything new from the GC ones? Is it even worth talking about?