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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Game Design/Development  |  Topic: MMO Team Recruitment 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: MMO Team Recruitment  (Read 9785 times)
CaptBewil
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Posts: 54


on: September 09, 2007, 10:41:43 AM

Now that I have a working Engine and Tools that I'm satisfied with, I'm ready to bring on a couple of new team members for this (as yet) Untitled/unthemed MMO.

The two openings I have are as follows:

C#/Python programmer:
Responsible for making basic programming and system changes (primarily editing existing code).

Concept Designer/Artist:
Will colaborate on the entire look and feel of the game.  From the Theme down to the GUI.

If interested, please send an email to:  enhxko@yahoo.com
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 05:07:54 AM

So like, are you for real?  I mean, are these "openings" actual jobs, that pay money?

Because I've been real suspicious of any greyname who supposedly has a game project, ever since Schild went ahead and rednamed this guy, the high-school kid with the shitty browser game about being a gangster.  Granted, I imagine Schild did so as a joke, but what the hell.  At least the kid's shitty game actually made it to the point of being logged into by real live players.  I think it's still going.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
schild
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Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 09:09:28 AM

While it was a gag, part of it wasn't: that high-school kid with a shitty browser game has probably produced more than 90% of the indie kiddies out there who want to make an MMOG. Sure, his shit could run on a TI-82, but you gotta keep your goals realistic. Meanwhile, the guy above is asking for someone to , well, "Will colaborate on the entire look and feel of the game.  From the Theme down to the GUI." Just saying. Spelling errors too.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2007, 09:14:54 AM by schild »
pxib
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Reply #3 on: September 10, 2007, 09:52:06 AM

The Ogre Wiki's "getting started" FAQ puts it pretty well.

Quote
  Can I make an MMORPG with Ogre?                             

Theoretically yes, but MMORPGs require huge amounts of time, work and money to build and maintain. Just consider that when designing your project. MMORPGs are the hot item these days, and everyone is working on one. However there are very, very few that ever come close to completion. Conventional wisdom says to make at least 2 or 3 smaller "classic" games such as Tetris, Pong, etc. before even attempting something on the scale of a MMORPG, since it will give you a feel for the entire game design and implementation process, and show you how much work it is to produce even a small game. The "everyone and their mother is making an MMORPG" theme is something of a joke in the game programming community, so be forewarned that you may be met with a little skepticism when you announce that your next huge project is going to take the gaming world by storm. ;)

If you are past that and are still convinced that you want to make an MMO, start out right. First, consider joining another team. Most likely, your great idea isn't all that revolutionary. Combining efforts will give the best chance at achieving actual results. If you are still convinced to start one yourself, start with research and more research. Once that is done, research some more. Do not start recruiting on the Ogre forums, that is a bad idea. Once you are confident with what you have learned through research, start a design document. Get your ideas in order and then start to try to get support. Gamedev.net has a recruitment area that sometimes allows newbies to get away with I-want-to-make-an-MMO-from-scratch threads, but the Ogre forums aren't so forgiving.

If you are ready to begin, pick the best tools for the job. Check out GOOF, PLSM, and all the other possible libraries or engines that can speed you along and save time. Check out Realm Crafter, Kaneva, Multiverse or any other MMO engines that may be what you need. If you are still decided on Ogre, be ready for a LONG journey. Expect ridicule from other devs on Ogre's forums. Get a thick skin and believe in what your project is about. If you want help or advice, check out other projects using Ogre for their MMO. Project Wish and Ember are some of a few that are.

Lastly, never stop learning. It will take you a long time. You will need to get help and start a community for support. If you have any questions, ask, but ask in the right way, with the best grammar and spelling possible. Most people will not take you seriously as it is, so try to dissuade their ridicule by being professional in the way you do things.

There is a lot more to it than this, but this should get you started if you are crazy enough to try.

if at last you do succeed, never try again
Stephen Zepp
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Reply #4 on: September 10, 2007, 01:27:42 PM

That wiki description could have come right out of the GG forums.

Rumors of War
CaptBewil
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Reply #5 on: September 10, 2007, 05:39:31 PM

Spelling errors too.

That is such an annoying line.  It's like saying "I don't have anything else to round out my attack so I'll just pick something completely ridiculous and unrelated and tag it on to the end."

At any rate.  I think, being posted on this small, dimly lit corner of the internet, it should be pretty obvious that I'm recruiting for an Indy project.  I can honestly say, that pxib's quote doesn't really apply at this stage of development...largely for the fact that the engine is already in a playable state with several systems already implemented.  Let's go down my checklist of completed items:

Core "MMOG-PMS (Player Mechanics System)" Design
Game Engine (largely based off of Ogre)
-Game Design Tools
--World Editor
--Terrain Generator
--Model Viewer (exporter)
--Asset Converter
-Game Engine "MMO" Subsystems
--Basic Collision physics
--Character Movement (Z-Jumping to be added later)
--Global Wind variable (to affect grass, brush, and tree limb movement)
--Global Fog
--Event & Object Collection - Region handling
--Basic NPC and Quest handling system
--Basic Inventory system handling
--Basic MMO style combat system (to be changed to FPS style)
--Basic Character Creation Screen (currently only two model choices (male and female)...to be changed to a full on model creation tool)
-Demo World created (using a "Classical Fantasy Theme", to be changed as determined)
--Demonstrates NPC, Quests, and Inventory handling (NPC and Quests are temporary to demonstrate In-Game GUI, to be removed later per my Game Design Doc (see MMOG-PMS))
--Demonstrates samples of all other systems currently implemented.

As to the positions:

While this is an Indy project, It does have an initial budget.  I'm working on lining up some additional funding through local investors.  The Server Handling, Maintenance, Accounts and Billing arrangements have already been arranged for when the project goes live.  As to the compensation, it will be negotiated through email only.  Much of the compensation will depend on experience and there could be a trial period of 30 - 90 days.  An employment contract must be executed and signed before any work can be contributed on or to the project.
Kail
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Reply #6 on: September 10, 2007, 06:03:11 PM

While this is an Indy project, It does have an initial budget.  I'm working on lining up some additional funding through local investors.  The Server Handling, Maintenance, Accounts and Billing arrangements have already been arranged for when the project goes live.  As to the compensation, it will be negotiated through email only.  Much of the compensation will depend on experience and there could be a trial period of 30 - 90 days.  An employment contract must be executed and signed before any work can be contributed on or to the project.

This sounds a bit serious for me... I like kicking around concept sketches and doing a bit of modelling, but I don't have the time to take on another job.  What kind of time commitment are you looking for, here?
WindupAtheist
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Badicalthon


Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 05:17:08 AM

Heh, the kid's browser game is still going.  He's even added a few things.  It's still shitty, but what the hell.  Between the RMT shop and the advertisement you see when you log in, it's probably even generated a couple dollars revenue.  Which is a couple dollars more than 99% of these "HAY GUYZ I WANNA MAKE A GAME" projects ever see.

"You're just a dick who quotes himself in his sig."  --  Schild
"Yeah, it's pretty awesome."  --  Me
HRose
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Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 03:43:10 PM

Of course game designers are superfluous ;)

-HRose / Abalieno
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CaptBewil
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Reply #9 on: September 14, 2007, 02:23:25 PM

How so?  There's a lot of improvements to be made in the game design area...especially for MMO's.  There's discussions on this site all the time...
Tack0
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Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 06:58:36 AM

 Thank you Pxib for a honest and very true quote. Now, a lot of what i'm going to be saying is going to sound insulting. But to me, the approach was all wrong, and I have to assume a bit more than i'd like to have to.

Step 1.. You mentioned a list of things you've already installed. Right there, you've already negated a good portion of the need for a designing team. To me personally, the majority of design is with the tools and how the tools operate. Once you have the tools, it takes a minimal amount of true talent or designing skills to produce. You need to be a little more specific than just "theme and GUI" concept/artist designer position available. I'm interested, but not the way you put it. What kind of theme? What kind of artistic talents are going to be required? What kind of experience are you looking for? What kind of a person/people are you looking for? ESPECIALLY, what limitations do your tools have, and how would you go about upgrading these to the likings of your team, not just you. As far as I know, the tools might not even be up to par to the tastes of your team. Your entire statement sounded a little selfish. If there is no pay involved, you have no rights to be a selfish manager. If your team gets nothing but credit, there needs to be a lot of room for that credit. To me, two positions open? That's a lot of room for credit, but you're talking about a MMO. So far, you're being obvious that there is 3 people involved. I'm assuming there are more. You're talking about 4-6 years of work with 3 people working 60-80 hour weeks.. minimum.

Two, before anyone jumps the gun. It is obvious that there was a statement about pay. Which makes credit a little less important, but none the less.. If I was to make the cut, I want my name in any piece of the pie I touched. But, without ample information for the application, we still have to assume there is the 4-6 years of work with 3 people working 60-80 hour weeks.. minimum, that's some intense dedication you're requiring off the get go. I have to assume this as well, because there is no information as to the position of your team.

Three, you're wanting to develop a MMO as head of the project and most likely the CEO as well. Yet, you stated in your feature list that your engine is largely based off something under a license that is not your own. I don't trust that alone. Licensing is key. GNU GPL will make the cut, but is not going to make you a shooting star in the industry. In all honesty, with GNU GPL tagged to your code, it makes it look like you and your team do not have the ability to perform what it takes to complete such a hefty project. Yet, as a designer myself, I do understand how nice reusable code can be, and how much time it can save. There is always the option of reapplying for your own license. But, I lost a good bit of  interest by not seeing a "license" or copywrite information file, or any hint of the game even being set up for true legal mass-production distribution. Besides you already stating you will require a contract, which makes no one happy ever, unless that contract states "You passed go, collect 2 million dollars!".

Four, all shots of having me apply were dismissed as soon as I saw "un-named/un-themed". This means that there has been no pre-production planning done for a base concept. That right there, already entails 1 or more years of DESIGNING before production can truely go smoothly. As a project head, there comes the slight responsibility of supplying the base vision for the game. Otherwise, you have to use someone else's vision, and your contract needs to rip all rights from that human being that spent years of their life in advance to produce for your game. Not a good position for a designer, even if the pay is good, and their vision destines them to prosperity. As well, this poses a serious problem with your tools. How can you be happy with tools, when you don't even know what you're building?

Five, I can't aim the cannon at the coding position, because I personally deal with design, program logic, and team management (Yea, i'm one of the fuck ups everyone in the game industry hates haha). I'm not a coder, I just make sure the coder has as easy of a time as I can make it. Which it already sounds like a hell hole for the poor programmer you enlist.

Six, don't find this offensive, none of it is meant to be attacks. I just want it to be plain jane to anyone that reads this, and wants to post on their own games.. "Prepare, or perish."

Sorry, but I can't even bring myself to applying, unless a reasonable approach is made.

Tack()
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 07:17:25 AM by Tack0 »
CaptBewil
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Posts: 54


Reply #11 on: October 27, 2007, 04:42:40 PM

Only serious inquiries into the positions will warrent additional elaborations as to the exact status of the game, the general status and direction of the company, and/or details of the different employment contracts that are available that best meet the needs of the one inquiring.  This company is not looking to publicly release any additional information on the game this early in its development.  We apologize if this discourages anyone from applying to the positions announced above.
Krakrok
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Reply #12 on: October 27, 2007, 05:06:24 PM

stuff

Someone title this guy with "Crusher of Dreams" or "Fountain of Eternal Optimism".
cmlancas
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Reply #13 on: November 01, 2007, 11:04:27 AM

Or, RealWorldDesigner_001?

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Jayce
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Posts: 2647

Diluted Fool


Reply #14 on: November 11, 2007, 01:08:23 PM


Core "MMOG-PMS (Player Mechanics System)" Design
Game Engine (largely based off of Ogre)
-Game Design Tools
--World Editor
--Terrain Generator
--Model Viewer (exporter)
--Asset Converter
-Game Engine "MMO" Subsystems
--Basic Collision physics
--Character Movement (Z-Jumping to be added later)
--Global Wind variable (to affect grass, brush, and tree limb movement)
--Global Fog
--Event & Object Collection - Region handling
--Basic NPC and Quest handling system
--Basic Inventory system handling
--Basic MMO style combat system (to be changed to FPS style)
--Basic Character Creation Screen (currently only two model choices (male and female)...to be changed to a full on model creation tool)
-Demo World created (using a "Classical Fantasy Theme", to be changed as determined)
--Demonstrates NPC, Quests, and Inventory handling (NPC and Quests are temporary to demonstrate In-Game GUI, to be removed later per my Game Design Doc (see MMOG-PMS))
--Demonstrates samples of all other systems currently implemented.


Wait, so you generated all this already, from scratch, by yourself?

How long have you been working on it, 10 years?

Witty banter not included.
schild
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Reply #15 on: November 13, 2007, 07:43:00 PM

Or is he using Blue Shift or whatever that crap public code is?
drmccollum
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Reply #16 on: November 26, 2007, 01:27:15 PM

Or is he using Blue Shift or whatever that crap public code is?

Looks like he's using multiverse.net
DarkSign
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Reply #17 on: November 30, 2007, 07:37:59 AM

Mulitverse? ugghh. I alpha'd that and it blows chunks. As does Kaneva. As does Realmcrafter 1.

The only decent MMO middleware for hobbyists is:

  • Torque MMO kit (based off the Minions of Mirth code)
  • Realmcrafter 2 (not out I dont think but should be better than the first one (ugh)
  • The old Dream Games / www.mydreamrpg.com Torque-based system. (GarageGames made them stop selling it, but I think you can hire the current devs to do something personally.


Of course there's the HeroEngine, BigWorlds, Icarus's system and Gamebryo for devs with lots of cash, but they're outside the realm of most private hobbyists.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 07:41:17 AM by DarkSign »
IainC
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Reply #18 on: November 30, 2007, 08:30:27 AM

Are we sure he's not this guy? Some random webdesigner who makes himself the head of imaginary game companies working on equally imaginary projects? He posted the hugely influential MMO design guide that was doing the rounds of various blogs a few days ago.

- And in stranger Iains, even Death may die -

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drmccollum
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Reply #19 on: November 30, 2007, 11:01:51 AM

Mulitverse? ugghh. I alpha'd that and it blows chunks. As does Kaneva. As does Realmcrafter 1.

The new 1.1 version that's about to come out actually looks pretty good. I've been playing around with it a bit.
DarkSign
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Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 11:12:47 AM

Did they clean up the lighting and texture problems they were having?

What's the import pipeline like now? Back when I was playing with it (I like to keep a finger in all the mmo middleware pies) getting everything in wasnt easy or fun.
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