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Author Topic: Help me buy an HDTV and configure a Media Center  (Read 15860 times)
Venkman
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Reply #35 on: August 20, 2007, 05:24:53 AM

This won't likely be a PC gaming TV. I was more interested in repurposing a dormant PC to drive movies, music, and photos through it. I've already got my gaming PC in an environment that doesn't cut into my wife's General Hospital and Extreme Home Makeover. It's also why I don't have a gaming console yet, though that will come in time.

Good points on the differences in Plasma display and LCD. I did notice some wierd artifacting (if that's the right word, cribbed from photo stuff) on the LCD displays. And while the store environments are designed to make LCDs look nice and crisp, anyone who's spent any time with an LCD gaming monitor can see what they think passes for black.

Thanks also for clarifying Vizio and Westinghouse. Good to know it's not all about the Sony/Toshiba/LG names.

Quote from: Abagadro
It's really not that big of an imposition to break it in. You just need to pay attention to what is playing and not watch 4:3 stuff (you stretch it) or play games with static images. Even then if you do that you can usually "wash" the screen.
The price on the Westinghouse Plasma at BB was certainly right. However, I abhor watching stuff stretched. You mentioned earlier a DVD that can do this. I would love to pick up a TV soon-ish, so just have a few more newbie/stupid questions:

  • Is the "damage" to the screen something that builds over time? Or is there some ratio between X time on and Y time off where the screen gets back to "normal"? We watch about 2-3 hours of TV a day, mostly at night in one long sitting, on channels that appear to all be offered in HD by my cable provider.
  • How does the DVD work? Do you run it for 10 hours over night? Throw the TV in the basement for 200 hours straight?
  • What's the expect lifespan of a Plasma and how much does that 200 cut into it? And is it different from LCD by much?
Murgos
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Reply #36 on: August 20, 2007, 05:39:25 AM

No one I know has purposefully burned in their plasma's.  No one I know has any issues related to that either.

That said I have a DLP.  It's wonderful.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Arrrgh
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Reply #37 on: August 20, 2007, 06:39:25 AM

DLPs have zero burn in issues. Leave a game/image from a movie paused a week if you want.

The samsung thin DLPs are about 7 inches deep. My DLP sits on a stand and looks flat from the front. If you stand beside it you notice it's not flat, but how much time do you really spend standing beside your TV pondering it's thickness?

There are no break in rituals required for DLPs.

I don't think they make then in 40", but check them out if you decide to go larger. I have nothing against plasma or LCD, it's just a shame when people write off DLPs because they're not "flat".


Venkman
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Reply #38 on: August 20, 2007, 07:03:32 AM

I love the DLP picture but haven't seen sets smaller than 47". Saving that for if we get into a bigger house.
Sky
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Reply #39 on: August 20, 2007, 07:54:21 AM

Samsung DLP. I'd recommend the LED-lit versions coming out now, but that's a bit more expensive. A 50" would be about in your price range, though. You know I effing love my DLP. If size is a deal, you should think about it some more. Seriously, when I got the 60" I thought it was ridiculous, but in reality, it's perfect. I'm in a tiny apartment (pic from gaming area thread). My father thought the same thing about the size, got a smaller set and it's so tiny it's still like watching movies on a tv set, it's a waste of money to buy a small hdtv imo. If your intention is to watch HD movies, I STRONGLY suggest you get a big tv.

I wouldn't look at another set beyond DLP. Plasma is nice, but they play wonky with pixels. DLP doesn't burnin, my 60" set weighs 107lbs (the new LED engine sets weigh about 97lbs). They're not 'flat', but it's only about 12" wide and it tapers out to hit that for only a little bit. Just noticed my neighbor, a Time Warner line tech, has the same set. Had his door open last night when I walked past and the back is unmistakable.
Quote
Her take on it is, "Well, this TV works just fine, so why fuck around?" (her exact words, TBH)
That's what all my friends said about my 30" SD CRT I had. It's why I bought the HDTV before I got engaged. Now she's spoiled, too. I don't know if you like music, but being able to watch concerts in HD at 60" is incredible, not to mention the clarity in movies at that size, and I have a 720p set. Actually, the 720p res works in my favor for gaming at this point, too, since 1920x1080 is a lot of pixels to push even now.

I also feel strongly if you go to HDTV you need to game on it!

As for HDPC, avsforum is the place to do research. Sure, they like to focus on the high end, but you can't beat the resources there. Personally, I kind of think it's a waste at this point. Afaik (and I haven't looked in a long time, honestly) there's not a good HD HTPC setup on the market unless you do OTA (antenna, over-the-air). I just use the HD DVR from the cable company, though I do watch DVDs from my pc on the tv. Blu-Ray is still stupid expensive, you'd be better off with a PS3, still (which I think is the point).

Jobs could corner the market if he can get a Blu-Ray player/burner in a mac imo.
Venkman
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Reply #40 on: August 20, 2007, 08:45:12 AM

I'd love a 60". The room is big enough. The problem is the layout. Two walls are windows (one with a fireplace) and the other two open into the kitchen and dining room. Even 42" is a stretch. I was trying to talk my wife into covering the fireplace with a temporary wall. We never use the stupid thing, being more the patio/chiminea types. That was a major no-go. She'd rather clean it out and put some candle contraption in there.

I don't mind much though. If not for her, the house would still be nuetral-tone walls, crappy carpet, no photos nor curtains, a pool table in the dining room, chinese in the fridge...
schild
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Reply #41 on: August 20, 2007, 08:49:44 AM

Quote
I don't mind much though. If not for her, the house would still be nuetral-tone walls, crappy carpet, no photos nor curtains, a pool table in the dining room, chinese in the fridge...

So, what you're saying is, you'd have bought a $4,000 TV instead of a $2,000 one. Rite.
MrHat
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Reply #42 on: August 20, 2007, 08:59:04 AM

Don't get a DLP.  Get something that's thin and can hang on the wall.

Don't listen to anyone re: 720p and 1080p.  Get 1080p.  We're past the time that it matters.  In terms of viewing distance, if you go back 2.5x the diagonal, you might not notice the difference between 720p and 1080p, but move in closer than that and there is a difference. 

Also, make sure that the TV does 1:1 mapping.  This shouldn't be an issue, and is most likely a problem regarding the STB, but some TV's stretch everything and it sucks.

Westinghouse fucking blows if you are near the screen at all.  I have a 27" in the bedroom and it's only good from like 15'.

Samsung LCD's are pimp.  Esp. in a room w/ windows.  IMO - go to a Best Buy or Circuit City or some commission-place during the day when it's slow and have salespeeps move stuff around for you and judge for yourself.

Edit: As for MCenter, AVS is the place to go.  Also, didn't Righ or someone have a thread on that a while back?
Venkman
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Reply #43 on: August 20, 2007, 09:03:26 AM

Quote
I don't mind much though. If not for her, the house would still be nuetral-tone walls, crappy carpet, no photos nor curtains, a pool table in the dining room, chinese in the fridge...

So, what you're saying is, you'd have bought a $4,000 TV instead of a $2,000 one. Rite.

Nope. Woulda stuck with the $2k TV. It'd just be bigger because I would have nuked that Fireplace, or hung it from the ceiling to cover the entrance ot the kitchen, or some such.
murdoc
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Reply #44 on: August 20, 2007, 09:25:48 AM


Don't listen to anyone re: 720p and 1080p.  Get 1080p.  We're past the time that it matters.  In terms of viewing distance, if you go back 2.5x the diagonal, you might not notice the difference between 720p and 1080p, but move in closer than that and there is a difference. 


Anything under 50"? You will probably not notice a difference between 1080 and 720. Anything over 50", definitely get 1080.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
schild
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Reply #45 on: August 20, 2007, 09:28:38 AM

I would get 1080p for anything over 30". Yes, the difference is obvious.
Rasix
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Reply #46 on: August 20, 2007, 09:29:33 AM

I know I open myself up to ridicule from every videophile on the board, but this was the fruits of my negotiations.  My goals in getting a new TV were simple, I wanted HD for football and for gaming.  1080p wasn't a deal breaker.  Sure, I wanted a 47" TV with 1080p for eventual PS3 gaming, but that tended to clash with my wife's goals of: fit in the same space as the old 35" tube tv, require minimal furniture changes, not large (40" max), not expensive, and a recognizable brand name.  We saw this in Best Buy and the response from my wife was very positive and instead of dragging out the TV search longer (and having to play more Dead Rising with tiny text); we got that and a simple stand.

It works though.  3 component, 3 composite, 2 HDMI.  Weighs nothing. It looks fantastic and I'm very happy with it.  I don't think a lot of what people seem to be concerned with here I would notice while playing my 360 or watching football/other HD programming.

I ended up saving some cash, getting my HD, avoiding $1k of additional furniture costs, and keeping my wife completely happy with the purchase.  Now I got to work on sound upgrades.  Unfortunately the new TV doesn't fit with what we had.  Another day perhaps, I'm happy for now. 

Addendum: I have not even seen 1080p yet.  720p seems good enough for me at the distance I watch TV/game at. Schild, do you even have a 1080p set yet? 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2007, 09:35:01 AM by Rasix »

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Reply #47 on: August 20, 2007, 09:45:30 AM

Quote
I know I open myself up to ridicule from every videophile on the board, but  this was the fruits of my negotiations.


Awwww, what a cute widdle TV!  tongue

I have the 60" Sony Grand Wega. Only thing I have seen in 1080p is my 360, but holy fuck that is pretty. Always buy the biggest bestest TV you can afford and fit in your space! I think I have room for a 107", but that will have to wait a bit. Probably until I win the WSOP or something.

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Merusk
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Reply #48 on: August 20, 2007, 09:57:46 AM

I would get 1080p for anything over 30". Yes, the difference is obvious.

I went out with my Mom this weekend shopping to get an HDTV for my Dad's b-day on Friday.  I'll agree with Schild on this, you do notice a difference between the 1080 and 720 at at least 37" (which is what we were looking for.)   Given the difference I saw in picture res at 37" I could see it making a difference at as low as 30" easily.



The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Abagadro
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Reply #49 on: August 20, 2007, 05:03:37 PM


  • Is the "damage" to the screen something that builds over time? Or is there some ratio between X time on and Y time off where the screen gets back to "normal"? We watch about 2-3 hours of TV a day, mostly at night in one long sitting, on channels that appear to all be offered in HD by my cable provider.
  • How does the DVD work? Do you run it for 10 hours over night? Throw the TV in the basement for 200 hours straight?
  • What's the expect lifespan of a Plasma and how much does that 200 cut into it? And is it different from LCD by much?

It's not something that builds over time. In fact, the more broken in the set, the less likely there is IR retention because the phosphors can reset easier. It's things like playing a sports game for a long time and having the static scoreboard image in the same place for a long time. Or having TV with the black bars on it for several hours. Really, it is just a break-in thing. Or just having it too bright as the setting out the box are completely wrong. You just have to be careful for the first bit. The newer sets have things like pixel-shift that moves the pixels around to prevent it, plus internal wash screens that get rid of IR.

The DVD is just something you can play to break it in. A lot of people just use any old DVD that has lots of changing stuff (like Planet Earth) and make sure that it is in full-screen.  Most people just try to be careful in their viewing habits. If you actually buy a TV, it would be worth your while to read the avsforums on this topic to protect your investment and get a proper calibration.

Half-lives (the time before it is one-half as bright as the day you bought it) on modern plasmas are in the tens of thousands of hours, so 200 hours is a drop in the bucket.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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Sky
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Reply #50 on: August 21, 2007, 06:32:43 AM

Or get a DLP :P
Venkman
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Reply #51 on: August 21, 2007, 06:40:07 AM

Find me one at 37" tongue

Thanks Abagadro. This is good food for thought. 90% of TV viewing in my house is by my wife. She wouldn't put up with that noise :) So I'll dig in a bit.
Venkman
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Reply #52 on: August 26, 2007, 06:41:38 AM

I would get 1080p for anything over 30". Yes, the difference is obvious.

Last night Best Buy had an open-box Sony 32" 1080p hanging next to a bunch of 720p TVs. I was able to stand as far from them as I would be sitting in my living room. I definitely agree with you. It isn't a huge difference for some things (like their stock nature-channel bullshit). But it really becomes noticable on textures and text.

The only reason I didn't buy it is because after spending the last few days looking around, 37" is really the smallest I want to go. And for something like this, I'd rather not get open box unless they've got some way to prove it never left the store.

Saw a nice Westinghouse model, and while it was listed as 720p, it was showing the feed at 1080i. It looked pretty nice and the price was right. But just knowing 1080p is where I want to be sorta makes me not want anything less.
Abagadro
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Reply #53 on: August 26, 2007, 08:59:16 AM

Don't know if this size is what you are after, but Circuit City has an insane deal right now on the Sharp 42" LCD. It includes a stand and white-glove install for several hundred dollars less than what the TV costs elsewhere.  This set has had some clouding issues in the past which were hit and miss (sorta a TV lottery) but I think they have been getting better lately. Pretty good reviews on amazon and elsewhere.


EDIT: That deal is now dead. It was at 1186 and is now at 1786. I wonder if it was a price mistake.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 10:03:04 AM by Abagadro »

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Trippy
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Reply #54 on: August 26, 2007, 02:32:16 PM

I would get 1080p for anything over 30". Yes, the difference is obvious.
Last night Best Buy had an open-box Sony 32" 1080p hanging next to a bunch of 720p TVs. I was able to stand as far from them as I would be sitting in my living room. I definitely agree with you. It isn't a huge difference for some things (like their stock nature-channel bullshit). But it really becomes noticable on textures and text.
What Sony TV would that be? Sony doesn't make any 32" 1080P TVs AFAIK. Sharp is the only one making a 1080P LCD ATM and Sony's rear projection sets don't go that small.
Venkman
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Reply #55 on: August 26, 2007, 03:28:25 PM

The store was near my in-laws house, four hours away now, so I'd need to call them to be sure. It was either a Sony or a Sharp, neither of which appear on the BB site, nor in the other two stores I checked since getting back home. I'm thinking this was some online order the purchaser returned to that particular store.

Quote from: Abagadro
EDIT: That deal is now dead. It was at 1186 and is now at 1786. I wonder if it was a price mistake.
You tease! :)
Abagadro
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Reply #56 on: August 26, 2007, 04:16:05 PM

You snooze you lose!

The TV only is now at 1299 which is actually a decent deal in itself. You can also find 10% off coupons floating around too (I can help you find them if you are really interested).

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Venkman
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Reply #57 on: August 26, 2007, 04:49:18 PM

I just cut a piece of foamcore to size. I'd love it but now I realize I need to be at 37" solid. The area is just too tight. This sucks. Maybe I'll just wait for the new house, unless I see a 1080p at 37" as part of the Christmas stock.
Rasix
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Reply #58 on: August 26, 2007, 05:48:50 PM

Do you think you're really going to be watching that much 1080p to justify the price hike, especially if you're just going to be upgrading to a larger set later? You getting a PS3 soon or something (I thought someone mentioned the PC you had wouldn't be up for 1080p)?

edit: What I'm getting is, HD is kickass.  Just get your foot in the door if you have the opportunity.  Buy your ideal set later.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 05:58:13 PM by Rasix »

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Abagadro
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Reply #59 on: August 26, 2007, 07:27:50 PM

I just cut a piece of foamcore to size. I'd love it but now I realize I need to be at 37" solid. The area is just too tight. This sucks. Maybe I'll just wait for the new house, unless I see a 1080p at 37" as part of the Christmas stock.

Sharp makes a 37" 1080p LCD set.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Venkman
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Reply #60 on: August 27, 2007, 06:04:03 PM

Nice, thanks Abagadro.

Do you think you're really going to be watching that much 1080p to justify the price hike, especially if you're just going to be upgrading to a larger set later?

Given the housing market, I'm really not sure when I'll be upgrading. And given the expected plunge in price on Blu Ray, I'm actually thinking I'll be watching high def movies sooner rather than later.

What are networks broadcasting in these days? I thought someone mentioned it here but I can't find the number. 720p?
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Reply #61 on: August 27, 2007, 06:55:39 PM

Yeah, someone else mentioned that broadcast is 720, but I think both satellite services broadcast in 1080.  At least DirecTV indicates they do on their FAQ, but I couldn't find it on Dish.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Reply #62 on: August 27, 2007, 07:15:48 PM

Yeah, someone else mentioned that broadcast is 720, but I think both satellite services broadcast in 1080.  At least DirecTV indicates they do on their FAQ, but I couldn't find it on Dish.
Broadcast varies. CBS is 1080i. FOX is 720p. I can't remember what NBC and ABC are.

Edit: It looks like ABC is 720p and NBC 1080i.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 08:53:16 PM by Trippy »
Venkman
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Reply #63 on: August 28, 2007, 05:44:00 AM

Any idea when/if they'll go full 1080p? It seems to be a question of being able to drive highdef video signal over the same lines carrying and network connection, but there was something someone wrote about how the two signals are mutually exclusive anyway. I can't find it, but it was something about how the cable was designed allows them to treat cable signal and internet stuff completely separately, allowing both to achieve full potential.

This wouldn't affect my purchase, just wondering is all.
Venkman
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Reply #64 on: August 28, 2007, 01:39:59 PM

I'm seeing what my problem is. I can't get myself to actually just stand 10' away from the TVs to compare them. And the local BB isn't set up for that. They have all the TVs down these four foot-wide aisles, so I'm like living in the pixels.

Having said that, I'm heavily leaning towards a 40" Samsung 1080p set (one of the newer generations that replaced that big round button on the bottom). It's a bit above my initial price range, but from all the discussion here and the viewings I've had, I'm beginning to think my $1k range was on the low side for what I truly wanted. I'm also realizing that even if my old rig can't drive 1080p content, the 1080p gives me the pixels roughly equivalent to what I'm used to looking at on my PC, so at least may be good enough for low-end MMOing my couch.

After we learn whether Sam is going to be successful at seducing Lucky :P
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