*Official* 2007 College Football Thread

[Paelos]

<The SEC plays the same shit Big Ten does and gets more respect, rawr rawr rawr>

I suppose I'll try to fill you in on why you're not getting the respect you want. Let's go over it line by line.

1 - For starters, in your own conference matchups for the Big Ten, you still have two undefeated teams: Michigan and Ohio State. Those two are the only teams who have a chance in hell of winning, and it's been that way since mid-October. Your conference may be beating the hell out of each other in the middle, but it does NOT at the top. That's the main point I'm trying to make about the SEC. Until the deciding games this last weekend LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina all had a shot at winning the SEC. Four of those teams still have legitimate shots at the title game now with 2 conference games to go. In essence, people only care about the teams that can win the conference, and the more that have a shot the better.

2 - There are 12 teams in the SEC, 6 of which have won the championship in the last decade with no single team winning more than twice. That's half the conference competing every damn year for the title consistently. On top of that, the SEC plays an actual championship game. The SEC doesn't share titles anymore, and that's good because sharing pisses off the fans. Frankly, you're never sure who is going to win the SEC at the start of the season. Compare this to the past in the Big Ten where Michigan or Ohio State won or shared the title 8 out of 10 years. This year is no different. Going in, you're basically assured one of them will win it. It's predictable and that doesn't bode well for the conference as a whole.

3 - Michigan was beaten by App St. and Oregon right at the beginning of the season. They were #5 when they started, and plummeted out of the rankings. The conference got embarrassed and a similar fate would have befallen the SEC if LSU lost to Middle Tennessee or Tulane. Yet, here is Michigan, still one game away from winning the Big Ten. If they actually pull that off, you can forget about any respect coming from other fans for a while. Non-conference is only important if you lose badly, because nobody wants to play hard opponents when you are fighting for your championship life every other week. Is that the way the fans want it? Hell no, but that's the way you win national titles. You don't get rewarded for taking chances in the BCS.

[Triforcer]

<The SEC plays the same shit Big Ten does and gets more respect, rawr rawr rawr>

I suppose I'll try to fill you in on why you're not getting the respect you want. Let's go over it line by line.

1 - For starters, in your own conference matchups for the Big Ten, you still have two undefeated teams: Michigan and Ohio State. Those two are the only teams who have a chance in hell of winning, and it's been that way since mid-October. Your conference may be beating the hell out of each other in the middle, but it does NOT at the top. That's the main point I'm trying to make about the SEC. Until the deciding games this last weekend LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina all had a shot at winning the SEC. Four of those teams still have legitimate shots at the title game now with 2 conference games to go. In essence, people only care about the teams that can win the conference, and the more that have a shot the better.

You've made this argument twice, and it doesn't logically follow.  Everyone having a chance to beat each other up, from top to bottom, doesn't NECESSARILY mean all those teams are strong.  As a hypo on a 1-10 scale, ten being the best- Conference A could have two teams at 10 and eight at 6, while Conference B could have ten at 5.  So everyone top to bottom being a tough game means nothing in and of itself.

I say directly what I said indirectly earlier- if teams like Alabama, Tennessee, Auburn, and Georgia can be ranked with three losses, so should Illinois, Penn State, Wisconsin, etc.

[Hoax]

The fact is you guys are having this argument in the wrong year.  UMich really really really fucked up.  Also last year Ohio State and UM got FUCKING TRASHED in their bowl games both of which were BCS games that fucking tons of people watched.

The Big10 is not that much worse this year compared to any other year.  But it looks very bad.  Because its top2 teams are still the top2 teams.  Teams like Wisc, Penn State, Purdue and Mich St still seem to fall apart down the stretch and MICHIGAN LOST TO A DIV2 TEAM.  The big2 need to win their bowl games this year, and win big ones.

This is the wrong year to bring up what is otherwise a good point, the SEC teams beat eachother but because half of them are ranked to start they are always beating ranked teams or ex-ranked teams which means their losses rarely count as super damaging and their wins are OMG amazing!  Which is crap.  The SEC does play a very fast, very physical style of play and I really do respect SEC defenses top to bottom more then any other conference hands down.  They play a style of football that is closer to the pro's.  But they are hardly the God Kings of CFB that fucking dipshits at ESPN make them out to be.

The PAC-10 is as competative if not more then the SEC this year but that is mostly because Cal and USC are fucking up hard.

The only good thing for the Big10 so far this year is that Ohio State has a shot (that nobody thought they would have) at the reclaiming the title after the humiliation of last year and Illinois may actually be a solid-great program soon.  Sadly Iowa has fallen off badly after years of people waiting for it finally to fall into place for them and Michigan State has their best team in years but they still fucking fail at closing out the season in good form.

[Paelos]

The reality is that there are only three ways you can judge conferences.

1 - Bowl Games - This is usually where you are going to see the best of the best of each conference play another.

2 - Conference Parity - Say what you want, but in Division I football, having 12 teams that can win against another any given Saturday plays well with the fans and the raters. Having different teams win the conference rather than having 1-2 teams dominate also helps. It just makes for better football, but you seem to want to argue with me on that point. It's also freaking RARE. That's why the SEC gets so much press. Do you find that anywhere else? Perhaps the PAC-10 this year in terms of overall question marks. Now that the USC stranglehold is over it's actually fun to watch again. The same will be true in the Big Ten or the Big Twelve when more than 2 teams compete every year.

3 - Non-conference regular season games - They are starting to become more popular at the beginning of the season, and I'm hoping the trend will continue.

Now, out of those three things, how did the conferences do in a comparison? I've made my point about #2 already, and #3 is basically a wash, so let's look at bowl results from 2006.

Direct Matchups between the Big Ten and SEC:

1 - Florida beats Ohio State 41-14 for the National Title. That's a whooping. That's also why the SEC is getting a lot of credit this year, and the Big Ten isn't.
2 - Wisconsin beats Arkansas 17-14 in the Capital One Bowl. This one hurt, especially because I expected the Arkansas running game to play better.
3 - Penn State beats Tennessee 20-10 in the Outback Bowl. I don't remember this game, but Fulmer sucks in bowls.

So in heads up matches, the Big Ten went 2-1.

Matchups for just the SEC:

1 - LSU beats Notre Dame 41-14 in the Sugar Bowl. It was a popular score that year.
2 - Auburn beats Nebraska 17-14 in the Cotton Bowl. It shouldn't have been that close, but it was in Big 12 territory.
3 - Georgia beats VA Tech 31-24 in the Peach Bowl. It was practically a home game.
4 - South Carolina beats Houston 44-36 in the Liberty Bowl. I picked against SC because I thought Spurrier would blow it, and they screwed me.
5 - Kentucky beats Clemson 28-20 in the Music City Bowl. It was a big big win for a Kentucky program nobody really thought about, Clemson was favored by 17.
6 - Oklahoma State beats Alabama 34-31 in the Independence Bowl. This was another one that pissed me off because Bama totally blew it.

In SEC only matches, the SEC went 5-1

Matchups for just the Big 10:

1 - USC beats Michigan 32-18 in the Rose Bowl. It wasn't pretty either.
2 - Texas beats Iowa 26-24 in the Alamo Bowl. This was embarrassing because it's also practically a home game, but Texas was shitty.
3 - Maryland beats Purdue 24-7 in the Champ Sports Bowl. Purdue hardly showed up.
4 - Texas Tech beats Minnesota 44-41(OT) in the Insight Bowl. For a nothing bowl it was one of the best games of the bowl season.

In Big Ten only matches, the Big Ten went 0-4.

So, in conclusion while the Big Ten did better against the SEC in the heads-up matches, they still lost the title game and went 2-5 overall in the bowls.
The SEC won the title game and went 6-3 in the bowls.

Those factors played into the rankings for the next year, and they also colored the perceptions of the pollsters for the conferences.

[Montague]

Pretty much agree with Hoax. The Big 10 is not as bad as it appears and the SEC is not as good as it's being made out to be by ESPN. That's the nature of the beast though in this Cable TV age in College Football. Don't forget that a mere nine-ten months ago the hype machine was all over OSU-Mich as the "Game of the Century". Last year the press was all over the fact that OSU was the only #1 team to ever play 3 #2 ranked teams. The worm turns and all that.

[Daeven]

LMAO @ BC. And I told you Oregon was good. I think half of their strength is that their uniforms are so fucking ugly that the defense can't keep an eye on them long enough to properly defend. Those pants they wore on Saturday could be seen from orbit I think.

Shhhh! Quiet! Or they'll wear the Yellow Horrors again!

[UD_Delt]

Pretty much agree with Hoax. The Big 10 is not as bad as it appears and the SEC is not as good as it's being made out to be by ESPN. That's the nature of the beast though in this Cable TV age in College Football. Don't forget that a mere nine-ten months ago the hype machine was all over OSU-Mich as the "Game of the Century". Last year the press was all over the fact that OSU was the only #1 team to ever play 3 #2 ranked teams. The worm turns and all that.

I don't think Tressel will ever make that mistake again. That was just a coaching cluster-fuck last year. The extra 2 weeks of downtime (compared to Fla), only a dozen or so team practices over about 6 weeks, Troy Smith getting fat and lazy on the Heisman circuit, etc... Everyone wants to point to Ginn going down on the opening kick which was only one of a number of factors that cost them the game.

I strongly believe that was a totally different tOSU team that played Florida vs. the one that played Michigan a few weeks earlier. I give Meyer a lot of credit as that was one of only a few games I can say Tressel got seriously out-coached.

I also really, really hate how late the freaking championship game is, that's a long time to keep amateur players who are about to make some serious bank focused.

[Mortriden]

LMAO @ BC. And I told you Oregon was good. I think half of their strength is that their uniforms are so fucking ugly that the defense can't keep an eye on them long enough to properly defend. Those pants they wore on Saturday could be seen from orbit I think.

Shhhh! Quiet! Or they'll wear the Yellow Horrors again!

You're not kidding.  We've got something like 200+ different combinations of uniforms and all but maybe two are ugly as hell.  However... GO BIG GREEN!

Fuck balls.  If we win out going into the Civil War game Oregon State gets another chance to play spoiler queen.  They've done it before and those mother bitches seem to learn how to play come December.  I haven't been this excited about our season since the early 90's and the Rose Bowl game against Penn State (where we got bitch slapped).

[Daeven]

Fuck balls.  If we win out going into the Civil War game Oregon State gets another chance to play spoiler queen.  They've done it before and those mother bitches seem to learn how to play come December.  I haven't been this excited about our season since the early 90's and the Rose Bowl game against Penn State (where we got bitch slapped).

That's pretty much been the Beavers goal in life since the 1968 'Giant Killers' season.

My big concern is that we're seeing a repeat of 2001-2002. The Ducks will wind up #3 to OSU and LSU (because they aren't USC), and end up beating the merry hell out of whomever they end up facing - alla Colorado - out of sheer frustration.

<insert Yet Another Argument for an NCAA football playoff here>

[Hoax]

Decent by ESPN standards article can be found here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3096758&sportCat=ncf&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos1

Highlight:

The entire conference muscle-flexing argument is tedious, vague and prone to more partisan foot-stomping than a debate on global warming. But since conference power might really matter come BCS selection Sunday (Dec. 2), it's worth examining. The Dash matched up the top 10 teams from the SEC with all 10 members of the Pac-10, in relative pecking order. Envision an SEC-Pac-10 Challenge on a neutral field: five days of doubleheader games in, say, Kansas City.

To see who would win -- or at least be favored -- The Dash went with the Sagarin Ratings, in part because they're less subjective than the polls and in part because the mere mention of computer rankings makes some of my ESPN.com colleagues break out in hives.

The matchups:

Oregon-LSU: Ducks favored by 0.5 points.

Arizona State-Florida (5): Sun Devils by 1.8.

USC-Auburn (6): Tigers by 0.5.

Cal-Georgia (7): Bulldogs by 2.4.

Oregon State-Alabama (8): Crimson Tide by 4.8.

UCLA-Kentucky (9): Wildcats by 5.9.

Washington-Tennessee (10): Volunteers by 6.6.

Arizona-Arkansas (11): Razorbacks by 9.7.

Washington State-South Carolina (12): Gamecocks by 10.4.

Stanford-Vanderbilt (13): Commodores by 7 -- or a few National Merit Scholars.

The way I see it only the top 6 are worth noting, because only 6'ish make a bowl game.  You've got 4 toss-ups where the spread is under a FG and them underestimating UCLA and overestimating UK, I also could see the Beavers doing something crazy versus Bama / Bama being incompetent as fuck, they seem to be good at that.

I would love to see that breakdown for some other conference matchups as well.



Also fun:

Ohio State: Hillary Clinton The Buckeyes don't make waves. They go out of their way not to be controversial, including not scheduling anyone this season who could beat them. They hope to bland their way to the nomination.

LSU: Rudy Giuliani The Tigers are strong on defense, and their fans aggressively promote their qualifications. They gloss over their past missteps, hoping everyone focuses on their willingness to take on anybody.

Oregon: John Edwards A good-looking team with an engaging personality, but the Ducks' stance on defensive issues is wanting. Do they have the substance to go all the way?

Oklahoma: Barack Obama Here's a team that looks like BCS material, and it has all the resources in the world. But its potential continues to outweigh its performance. Maybe the next race?

Kansas: Mike Huckabee A plucky candidate that can't get anyone to pay attention, the Jayhawks keep hanging around, charming people and slowly moving their way up the polls.

West Virginia: Mitt Romney The Mountaineers have great numbers and a wide-open attack, but they have done nothing to assure the voters they have the gravitas to make it to the top.

USC: Fred Thompson The Trojans get a bump from their Hollywood connection, but once they got on the stump, they looked nothing at all like a BCS candidate.

Hawaii: Ron Paul No matter how the Warriors perform, no matter how much support they drum up among the public, the opinion-makers never will take them seriously.

[Paelos]

I can honestly say as a Georgia fan that a Georgia-Cal matchup would rock my socks off. Why can't we see it? WHY?!?!

[Raging Turtle]

ON WISCONSIN!

 

Beating Michigan is far more important to most Wisconsin fans than beating Ohio.  Although we did play well against them (OSU) for three quarters last week.   

[Montague]

OSU in serious trouble at home vs. Illinois. Undersized but fast DL giving the OSU line fits again. Sigh.

[Montague]

3rd interception of the day. OSU's nose tackle is hurt and Laurinaitis has a guy on him every play. Cue the ha ha.

[Triforcer]

Bleh.  Well, it turns out that I was wrong and everyone else on the board was right.  Who saw that coming?

[Raging Turtle]

Beautiful.

[Montague]

Bleh.  Well, it turns out that I was wrong and everyone else on the board was right.  Who saw that coming?

I can understand losing to Illinois. They're a good young team with some talent. What's embarrassing is Illinois running the ball down our throats on the last drive. At home. That's pathetic. Denlinger was hurt yeah, but you still have to enforce your will at that time of the game and at least get a stop. 3rd and 10 and Illinois is getting 13 yards up the middle? Championship teams don't do that.

They still have a chance to beat Michigan and go to the Rose Bowl, but I'm not too optimistic if the DL continues to suck it up.

[Abagadro]

Can't help myself this time.

[Paelos]

Yes, I'm going to have to second that ha-ha. Big Ten needs to just quietly go into the BCS and win with some dignity if they can. If not, you'll have a long long road to walk before you get national credibility again. Also, go DAWGS! I love beating Auburn, but I love beating Auburn even more when we do it in a full blackout with a 25 point margin.

BACK IN BLACK!

[UD_Delt]

God that was an irritating game. OSU shooting themselves in the foot and the officials giving Illinois 14 points.

I couldn't hear the TV that well at the bar I was watching the game but why didn't the officials review that fumble on Illinois first TD? It looked pretty clear he fumbled into the end zone and OSU recovered. Did the official blow the whistle?

And what's up with not calling the pick play when the receiver crosses the field and blows up the defender covering the other receiver in a crossing route?

[Montague]

God that was an irritating game. OSU shooting themselves in the foot and the officials giving Illinois 14 points.

I couldn't hear the TV that well at the bar I was watching the game but why didn't the officials review that fumble on Illinois first TD? It looked pretty clear he fumbled into the end zone and OSU recovered. Did the official blow the whistle?

And what's up with not calling the pick play when the receiver crosses the field and blows up the defender covering the other receiver in a crossing route?

To further piss you off, I'll let you know the officiating crew is the very same one that is being suspended/fired after the Purdue-Penn State fiasco. That being said the referees didn't lose the game for OSU.

Mgoblog (which any college football fan should read no matter their persuasion, Brian is entertaining as all hell) is reporting that 3 separate sources have confirmed Lloyd Carr's retirement.

I'll go on record as saying that the OSU-Michigan game is a mortal lock. Bet the house on Michigan. Carr basically phoned in the season after the Appy state loss but for this one game to beat Tressel. The OSU D-line is hurting and got exposed to the run against Illinois. Michigan players will be fired up to the gills to win one more for the old man. It's like the LSU at Death Valley at night game situation for you SEC folks.

If OSU somehow manages to win this game Jim Tressel is the robot raptor jesus of coaching.

[WayAbvPar]

I was having fun watching college games over the weekend until this-



What a sickening feeling. I was so happy to see him WALK back into the stadium to be with his teammates that I teared up. He is too good a kid (not to mention a player) to lose.

[Montague]

I was having fun watching college games over the weekend until this-



What a sickening feeling. I was so happy to see him WALK back into the stadium to be with his teammates that I teared up. He is too good a kid (not to mention a player) to lose.

Saw that on the highlights, that was some scary stuff. They said it was just a stinger, no real damage done right?

[WayAbvPar]

Yeah, he is stiff and sore, but doesn't look like any longterm damage. He might even get cleared to play this weekend!

[Paelos]

Time for more...

PAELOS BOLD PREDICTIONS OF THE WEEK!

#23 Michigan beats #7 Ohio State to claim victory in the Big Ten - 34-23
Vanderbilt upsets an overconfident Tennessee team: 19-17 in a nailbiter.

and finally, the big one of the week, after riding a two game winning streak...

IOWA STATE upsets #3 Kansas in the game nobody saw coming: 31-17

[Nevermore]

I who's #2 these days?  I've lost track.  Whoever it is, I think that team loses. 

And now for something completely different.

[Paelos]

#2 is Oregon. And yes, I saw that Cal band video a few days ago and it's quite awesome. Nerds unite!

[Rasix]

I who's #2 these days?  I've lost track.  Whoever it is, I think that team loses. 

And now for something completely different.

I'm going to watch the #2 play tonight and likely kick the crap out of my team (UofA).  Weather looks to be somewhat nasty for the game. 

[Nebu]

Time for more...

PAELOS BOLD PREDICTIONS OF THE WEEK!

#23 Michigan beats #7 Ohio State to claim victory in the Big Ten - 34-23
Vanderbilt upsets an overconfident Tennessee team: 19-17 in a nailbiter.

and finally, the big one of the week, after riding a two game winning streak...

IOWA STATE upsets #3 Kansas in the game nobody saw coming: 31-17

Bold indeed.  I think that the first is the most likely to happen, though I think Ohio State has too many ways to beat Michigan.   

I'm betting that Vandy and ISU will cover the spread (11.5 and 26.5 respectively), but don't quite have the confidence you have to call the upset. 

I've been wrong before though... about a lot of things.

[Paelos]

Oregon's down after a quarter. I'll chalk this one up to pregame #2 syndrome.

EDIT: Whoops, 24-11 now Arizona on top. Dixon sitting on the sidelines. Oregon may have some problems in this one. Could we see the 6th #2 fall apart?

[Montague]

Oregon's down after a quarter. I'll chalk this one up to pregame #2 syndrome.

EDIT: Whoops, 24-11 now Arizona on top. Dixon sitting on the sidelines. Oregon may have some problems in this one. Could we see the 6th #2 fall apart?

31-11 now.

Nobody wants to be natty champs this year.

[Abagadro]

College is becoming as QB centric as the NFL. You lose your good QB you are in trouble.

[Paelos]

This game is over. Oregon fails.

[Rasix]

Winner.

Edit: I don't know if I'm going to be able to even speak tomorrow.  Should make meetings interesting.

[Nevermore]

See? You don't even have to know who the #2 team is ahead of time to know they'll lose this season.  Kansas, do you really want to be #2?