*Official* 2007 College Football Thread

[Triforcer]

GO BUCKS!!!  The humble, cornfed midwestern team will prevail on the strength of hard work and grit while westerners and southerners sniff their effete criticisms over sushi and arugula.   :-D   

[Montague]

There goes LSU.  Maybe dogshit USF can play dogshit OSU for the championship the way things are going.

Pretty much.

There is no dominant team this year, every team has weaknesses. I'm wondering what's going to happen if there's no undefeated teams this year. Hopefully it spells the end of the BCS.

[Montague]

GO BUCKS!!!  The humble, cornfed midwestern team will prevail on the strength of hard work and grit while westerners and southerners sniff their effete criticisms over sushi and arugula.   :-D   

  

[Montague]

Touchdown Beavers. 27-21 8 minutes left.

Colin Cowherd will have a field day on Monday with OSU 1, BC 2, and USF 3 in the rankings if the Beavs pull it out.

[Nevermore]

They got the 2 pt conversion and also just got a field goal: 31-21 Beavers.

Based on Strength of Schedule, USF should be #1 over both OSU and BC*.  That won't happen though and they'll likely be #3.

*Assuming Cal of the mighty Pac 10 goes on to lose.  They'd really deserve #1 if they win with that 79th SoS, too.

[Musashi]

:(

[Triforcer]

Cal goes down on an epic, epic mistake by the new QB.  When you have a sure FG, no timeouts, and 14 sec left on the opponent's 15, you don't try to run the ball in.  Game ended as the FG team scrambling on field.

[Montague]

OMG... Cal's quarterback has a brain fart for the ages and runs the clock out on the 7 yard line. Unbelievable.

[Abagadro]

Big East is dogshit? Cincinatti, Syracuse, West Virginia and USF are dogshit....

Hrm. Try again.

Did you really just use Syracuse (1-5) as a reason why that conference is good?

Cinci is going to lose to a lousy Louisville team. West Virginnia has beaten absolutely no one. South Florida has beaten absolutely no on... except West Virginia. (EDIT: I take that back, they beat Auburn, so they are at least a top 15 team, number 3 no way).  It's a crap conference overall.

The humble, cornfed midwestern team will prevail on the strength of hard work and grit while westerners and southerners sniff their effete criticisms over sushi and arugula.

I think you're right, Oklahoma definitely has the inside track.

[Triforcer]

Oklahoma is not in the midwest.  The midwest consists of: Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois and western Pennsylvania.  Everyone else around us is Great Lakes (Minnesota, Wisconsin) or Plains (everyone to the west of Illinois) or Appalachia.

[Abagadro]

Everything between Utah and Virginia is the midwest to me. Plus, it was a joke.

[Nevermore]

Ohio State has beaten...  #24 Purdue.
Boston College has beaten...  #15 Georgia Tech.
South Florida has beaten #17 Auburn and #5 West Virginia.

Rename those those teams to Team A, Team B and Team C and Team C would be #1.  Instead Team A will get it.  I'm really interested to see what the BCS says, since it'll take SoS into account.

[Abagadro]

That win over Purdue doesn't look that impressive after today either. Although Michigan has been looking much better lately.

By all rights LSU should still be #1 tomorrow. They have beaten very good competition and their loss was on the road to another very good team in triple overtime. If you just asked "which team is most likely to win a game against anyone else" they would be it.  It's not the way the world works unfortunately.

[Nevermore]

I'd be hard pressed to argue against LSU remaining #1 but you're right, that's not how it works.

Another thing to note about those three teams I listed: both of the top 20 teams USF beat are still in the top 25 (and Auburn could move back up into the top 20).  Purdue and Georgia Tech aren't even ranked anymore.  Oh, and USF now has the longest winning streak in college football with LSU and Cincinnati both losing.

[Montague]

Ohio State has beaten...  #24 Purdue.
Boston College has beaten...  #15 Georgia Tech.
South Florida has beaten #17 Auburn and #5 West Virginia.

Rename those those teams to Team A, Team B and Team C and Team C would be #1.  Instead Team A will get it.  I'm really interested to see what the BCS says, since it'll take SoS into account.

From Sagarin's SOS rankings, OSU is 38th, USF 32. Not sure how Kent State vs UCF will change that, probably not much. BC is 78th, Oklahoma is 85 (which will increase with the Missouri game though).

It's a total tossup with the BCS right now. USF gets points for a top 10 win, OSU gets points for being 2 spots ahead, assuming the rankings hold, while USF has a slightly higher ranked schedule. Depending on how the computer rankings shake out its probably OSU #1 by a hair, followed by USF, then BC.

[Triforcer]

That win over Purdue doesn't look that impressive after today either. Although Michigan has been looking much better lately.

By all rights LSU should still be #1 tomorrow. They have beaten very good competition and their loss was on the road to another very good team in triple overtime. If you just asked "which team is most likely to win a game against anyone else" they would be it.  It's not the way the world works unfortunately.

Re paragraph 2: You are smoking crack.  As to OSU in particular, I would seriously like to know what you/Nevermore/etc. have actually SEEN in regards to the Bucks that makes you think it is a weak team (beyond just reciting the record of Big 10 teams).  I'd understand (and even agree on some level) that OSU's ranking was undeserved if they were pulling a Wisconsin, and floating through their season beating teams like the Citadel by 7.  Hell, I'd even understand if their wins were showing huge gaping flaws, like they were winning every game 55-50 (ie: no defense) or were totally one-dimensional (always run or always pass).  But trying to imply that the Bucks are a slightly more lucky version of Wisconsin is delusional.

[Abagadro]

floating through their season beating teams like the Citadel by 7.

Because beating the powerhouses of Youngstown State, Akron and Kent State really shows their mettle.    (oh, and I was on record a long time ago that Wisconsin is a horrible team, something that has been born out in spades)

They just aren't that impressive. They have a good defense (although not tested by anyone particularly good), but their offense is average at best. Against a real defense, they would have serious problems.

[Nevermore]

The other problem is they don't play anyone of note the rest of the season.  The only two currently ranked teams left on the OSU schedule both lost today and could drop off the polls completely.

[Paelos]

Triforcer, OSU will lose to Michigan, thus making your conference completely worthless. Shut up. They have ZERO chance at a national title shot. Even if they get there, they'll fuck it up. Remember Florida?

[Montague]

floating through their season beating teams like the Citadel by 7.

Because beating the powerhouses of Youngstown State, Akron and Kent State really shows their mettle.    (oh, and I was on record a long time ago that Wisconsin is a horrible team, something that has been born out in spades)

They just aren't that impressive. They have a good defense (although not tested by anyone particularly good), but their offense is average at best. Against a real defense, they would have serious problems.

Heard the same thing in 2002. Since 2002 OSU has the second highest total win percentage, with the 6th toughest SOS. WWW.tellshowbcs.com if you want to take a look.

For everyone that doesn't like OSU being number one, win your games and it's not an issue. Any other so-called good team would be ahead of them if they would have taken care of business.

[Abagadro]

Heard the same thing in 2002.

And it was true then too. They needed a fluke play/bullshit penalty to win that championship against a Miami team that shouldn't have really been there either.

As for winning "my" games, I don't have a horse in this race, unlike the obvious homers.

[cmlancas]

I think a bunch of people are just red-assing that the dominant teams are blowing dick and losing should-win games this year resulting in a level playing field. Most of the conferences are pretty well-matched, with the SEC probably having a stronger conference than the others (par for the course). However, if you lose to a team that Ranked_Opponent_01 is supposed to beat, don't whine and bitch that "X team should be #1 even if we lost to (insert team here)." There are plenty of other teams that are proving themselves day in and day out. You might think LSU is better than USF, but what if Auburn beats LSU next week? What then? What if Kentucky keeps winning?


Maybe it is only that I live in Tampa where there are a shitload of OSU/UF fans that I have to hear garbage about USF sucks this, USF sucks that and plays an easy schedule, but hearing it here from what I considered for a little bit to be a more educated college football crowd makes me want to shoot myself.

You want to be #1? Don't be Boise State and fucking win some football games. Don't complain when a team loses and another pretty good team is undefeated and is ranked higher than you.

For fuck's sake. I'd take USF's defense over anyone in the nation. Grothe is starting to look better game in and game out. We went into Auburn AT HOME and won. We beat WVU. What else do you want before we're not dogshit?!

[Abagadro]

Play someone really good and win. Those two teams don't really qualify (although Auburn is marginally good).

USF is a good story, but they are simply not an elite team.

I also like how everyone is trying to hang some agenda on me. I'm a football fan that roots for a team that is usually crappy and wholly irrelevant to the national scene. I just call them like I see them.

[Musashi]

Fuck rookies.

That is all.

[cmlancas]

I suppose I did lump you into a category, but you're clearly overlooking the fact that Auburn and WVU are GOOD FOOTBALL TEAMS.

Oh yeah. USF might not have the #1 offense, but they certainly aren't bad. I'd even say that it is pretty good. A talented runner in Mike Ford, a pretty competent O-Line, and a good runner/passer in Grothe. USF's defense is #1 in the nation. Do you just look at highlight reels and say, "Oh, USF -- they are a fluke." Perhaps you don't know that there are at least three people on USF's defense who will be playing on Sundays. There is a chance that two of them will go in the first round next year.

Sorry. I can't help if you are seeing it wrong.


P.S.: I know I'm fanboying it up a little bit here, but USF deserves someone to take up the slack.  Also, OSU is pretty decent too. They deserve to be where they are right now.

Edit: I noticed earlier I fucked up and said Syracuse when I meant to say Rutgers. I wasn't paying attention to what I was posting. Sorry.

[cmlancas]

Fuck rookies.

That is all.

Tough game for the Bears. He's a hero if he gets outside though.

[Abagadro]

but you're clearly overlooking the fact that Auburn and WVU are GOOD FOOTBALL TEAMS.

On what basis are you asserting that WVU is a "good football team?" I'll grant you Auburn (sorta), but what has WVU shown to put them in the category of "good" other than being ranked highly at the beginning of the season (rankings which are basically meaningless)?

[Abagadro]

Here's a fun comparison. Tell me how Ohio State's record is any different than Kansas's based upon the teams they have played/beaten and explain why there is going to be 18 spots between them in the rankings.

[Triforcer]

Here's a fun comparison. Tell me how Ohio State's record is any different than Kansas's based upon the teams they have played/beaten and explain why there is going to be 18 spots between them in the rankings.

Here's why.  Rankings are meant to order teams according to ability to beat the other 1-A teams (and not, as you seem to think, as some sort of vague affirmation of "inner talent" regardless of how many game's they've lost).  You seem to think that the ONLY possible variable that can determine this is who a team has played this season.

But, you see, other factors can play in.  Such as, talent of the coach and his staff.  Also, how the team did last year (of course, this factor is considered in conjunction with how many players are returning).

OSU was in the championship game last year.  They have the same defense, basically.  There were questions on offense (which is why they started at 11).  The fact that they got to the championship game shows that it is reasonable to rank them number 1.  With Kansas, we only have their record.  Therefore, more variables are in favor of OSU. 

In short, expand your view of the factors considered when ranking teams.

[cmlancas]

Well, I've seen WVU play a game or two this season, and let's do a schedule breakdown:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=277
1) Western Michigan -- Garbage team. I won't say anything about this other than they ran up the score.
2) FIU -- Another shit team. Not a big win here either.
3) Maryland -- Decent Good team. Wins against (10)Rutgers and (X)Georgia Tech. Losses to Wake and WVU (Recall Wake beat FSU).
4) East Caronlina -- Not as bad as WMU and FIU, but nothing special here. 3-3 going into the UTEP game.
5) USF -- Loss. To the #1-5 team through week six.

Remaining games: Rutgers, Cincinatti, and Louisville. Louisville's defense looked decent against Cincinatti, and that is all that it needs to win.

Should I do a UF breakdown? Because it really doesn't look any better so far this year. Or how about USC?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=57
1) Western Kentucky -- Need I even put this down?
2) Troy -- Again, same.
3) (22)Tennessee -- Tennessee is alright, I guess. They beat UGA, but that's not saying much this year. I'd rank Tennessee about the same as Louisville.
4) Ole Miss -- Conference game that UF almost loses but still pulls out, 30-24.
5) (X)Auburn -- Last minute loss. Auburn completely dominates UF in the first half and Tebow doesn't have enough in the tank to finish it.
6) (1)LSU -- Loss. UF can't hang on to a lead in the second half playing horrible BucBall and not sticking to an offensive gameplan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=30
1) Idaho -- Not someone to write home about.
2) (14)Nebraska -- I can't believe the Huskers were ranked so high at the beginning of the season. 49-31 is a pretty big win.
3) Washington State -- Uh. Yeah. Washington State. Not much to see here.
4) (X)Washington -- This was a pretty decent game, and Washington had a few opportunities to win, but ultimately couldn't hang on. Washington is a pretty decent team despite being 2-3.
5) Stanford -- Loss? Laugh. C'mon, it's Stanford here people. They aren't as good as they have been in the past.
6) Arizona -- 20-13 sloppy win. I suppose a win is a win, and when comparing USC to USF, this would be comparable to USFvFAU.

Now which of these "good football teams" have had a tougher schedule than USF this year?

Since I took so long to write this post and you're talking about Kansas v OSU, just look at who Kansas has played this year. If you think OSU has a weak schedule (which you've already stated), KU's is even worse (so far).

[Abagadro]

Maryland isn't a good team. They beat a lousy Rutgers team. That's it. Georgia Tech is a basement ACC team.

If you think OSU has a weak schedule (which you've already stated), KU's is even worse (so far).

Uh, that was my point. They have played a cupcake schedule with 1 or 1 1/2 marginally good teams on it. KU has beat K-State (ranked 24 at the time) and OSU has beaten Purdue (ranked 23 at the time) & Washington (which is a half considering they lost to a horid UCLA team but do show signs of playing well ocaisionally). Those schedules/wins are functionally equivalent. So why is there such a disparity in ranking?

[cmlancas]

Georgia Tech is a basement ACC team.

I call bullshit. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=59

They beat Clemson and one of their losses is to unbeaten BC. Sorry.
Rutgers isn't lousy either. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

I'll definitely submit to you that OSU gets a little bit of a reputation vote. I don't have a viable argument for that. Well played.

[Triforcer]

Sigh.  Maybe you'll understand it this way.

Both me and Evander Holyfield box a six year old boy.  Both of us KO him in one punch.  Therefore, there is no way to distinguish between the boxing ability of Evander Holyfield and me.

Think about why you'd disagree with that, and then answer your Kansas/OSU question.

[Abagadro]

Georgia Tech is a basement ACC team.

Where are you coming up with this stuff?

I watch these teams play football. Most of my judgments aren't this actuarial table on who beat who. I watch the games and evaluate the talent level of the football team.

[Abagadro]

Sigh.  Maybe you'll understand it this way.

Both me and Evander Holyfield box a six year old boy.  Both of us KO him in one punch.  Therefore, there is no way to distinguish between the boxing ability of Evander Holyfield and me.

Think about why you'd disagree with that, and then answer your Kansas/OSU question.

That is begging the question. You have anointed OSU as Holyfield and Kansas as you without any basis in fact for doing so other than your incredibly biased subjective labeling.

EDIT: To run with your analogy, you have watched someone with a bag over their head beat up a 6 year old and another person with a bag over their head beat up a different 6 year old. You have determined that the first person is far superior to the second person based upon the fact that you like color of their trunks and people who wear that color trunks have won a lot in the past.