My First 2 Hour Impression of WoW

[Pineapple]

That's kinda what I was talking about. If you go to a shaman trainer, there are only about 8 spells listed total. If you play a warlock and look at their list, they have around 30+ spells in their list. I don't know if this is a bug and all the spells aren't supposed to be listed right from the start or if there are only just a few shaman spells all in all.

I would have to see what you were talking about in the game to explain what was going on. The shaman spell list I have seen had about 50 to 60 spells in it. Of course I could not buy most of them because I wasnt high enough level. But they were there.

Maybe that one trainer is just for newbie spells.

[El Gallo]

I don't think that anyone is expecting "too much".  I think that given the HUGE reputation and cash flow assets that Blizzard has that they had an opportunity to do something more than produce "EQ_only_better".

Considering the millions that the industry has spent on game after game that turned out to be "UO done worse" (SWG) or "EQ done worse" (every other major game), either one of those games "done better" would be a huge accomplishment.  Sad but true fact: if either UO or EQ were released today they would be the best games put out in 5 years.

[Pineapple]

No raid content yet? Only instances for high levels? Ouch. They better push back to November 2005. ;)

The first instance you come across is about level 18? Something like that. Then you get more instances every few levels. Most instances have more then one quest to be done within them.

An instance is very neat.

Spoilers below this line! ****

What is really cool is when you do the non-standard "get this many of X" quests. Some quests are escort, some are defense, some are offense. Some quests present stories right in front of you. NPCs act out part of the story, or ghost images at least.

I did an escort quest a few weeks ago. As I caught up to a travelling dwarf that I was supposed to find, he was being ambushed by thieves. I saved him just in time, and he thanked me and we continued on our way as I protected him to his destination. This was all out in the open, and scripted but it sure didn't feel that way. It felt like I really came up on a tense situation and made a difference.

[schild]

I did an escort quest a few weeks ago. As I caught up to a travelling dwarf that I was supposed to find, he was being ambushed by thieves. I saved him just in time, and he thanked me and we continued on our way as I protected him to his destination. This was all out in the open, and scripted but it sure didn't feel that way. It felt like I really came up on a tense situation and made a difference.

Star Wars did this on a quest from that island west of Tyrena to Tyrena. (I think the spelling for that is correct). Anyway, it's nothing new. It was however one of the neater quests and thank god Blizzard is at least taking some of the good ideas.

[stray]

It's not revolutionary. It's EQ 1.5.

If I could ask, and this is serious though it's obviously also a slam, but where do you get the .5 from. I saw 1.0

The graphics are better.
It seems to be more quest driven.
It's not Everquest 1.

Oh, wait, I see what you're doing here, heh.

I don't see what's he doing. Clue me in.

Besides, others said it's EQ 1.5, not me. I'm just using it to be sarcastic. The fact that it isn't revolutionary isn't a good criticism IMO. If it isn't at least evolutionary, or worse, reverts to even poorer design concepts than what we have known, then there's a problem.

[El Gallo]

EQ has had escort quests for a long time too.  I don't think anyone was saying they were OMG REVOLUTIONARRY!!!11!!

[Morfiend]

...

I'm confused. How does this not sound like Everquest? Can someone anywhere please give us hard proof that they have completely removed themselves from being an Everquest clone?

I'm starting to believe that the problem with MMOGs is that they are compared to EQ because it is so far reaching. There's no real way to not be an EQ clone. Hell, even Eve Online had some EQishness going on. And That's Just Sad. Perhaps EQ is the best we can hope for...I'm going to slit my wrists now, kthx.

edited to add that second bit.

EQ - Camping
WoW - Questing

EQ - Downtime
WoW - No downtime (or so little you dont even notice it, except the zepplins and boats, and flying. Longest travel time on any of the three, 6 minutes)

EQ - Job
WoW - Fun
(but I guess this is how you play a game)

EQ - Rip my eyes out rather than play
WoW - Cant wait to play

EQ - Devs dont listen
WoW - Devs make changes baised on feedback from players. Not forum whining. (maybe because its beta)


EQ - Forced grouping
WoW - solo is very viable as well as grouping.

EQ - NO real PvP (except pvp server)
WoW - Battlegrounds, and consentual PvP on regular server.

[Ardent]

EQ - Camping
WoW - Questing

You stress testers may not believe me, but he is right about this. WoW is NOT World of Warcamp.

I've played WoW for 9 months, and have never once had to wait for another camp of people to kill a mob before I get "my turn".

I think you're just experiencing the thrill of playing the game with 10,000 of your closest friends all at the same time. Give the game a week, those n00b areas will clear out, and you'll have no problems finishing the quests you need.

[HRose]

to my knowledge 2 of the first big mmorpgs are the best ever at this, UO and AC.  You should be able to customise your appearance through dyes etc or at least there shouldnt be optimal or 'class' armour that everyone tries to get.

Since MMORPGs are full of min/maxers, avoiding optimal armor is pretty difficult. You have to think about how to offer different sets of equipment that are all useful in their own way.

Okay but we are considering the GRAPHIC. Just set different equipment with similar stats and we will be allowed to not look the same without loosing the min/max.

I didn't have to group at all, for ANY quest and I was quite able to get my rewards/xp and get to level 9 PDQ alone.

It's another choice to make the game always soloable. As you go up there will be plenty of quests that you cannot solo (elite) and the fact that you can manage the situation is a strength.

What I mean is that you aren't forced to sit down to find a group that may or not arrive. Instead you group based on the situation. For example I often find other players camping the same quest I'm doing, so we group.

WoW is different from other games where you sit down on a place of choice to then start a game session, more or less in the same group till you log out. Instead grouping is occasional. You join one for a quest or two and then disband to follow your own path.

What happened to dynamic quest spawns? Is that only for a select few quests? If so, then as Bruce said, World of WarCamp.

The world is designed in this way. Mobs spawn in a specific point because that corner of the world is where they have the story, where their homes are built and so on. In WoW you don't have a general random terrain with mobs casually appearing. Instead every corner fits in a sense and a story.

There are wandering mobs and I've seen also an NPC that walks between four different zones. but it's still a game based on camping. There are both wandering mobs and standing still mobs.

I think dynamic quests are an exceptional case. I don't think I have ever encountered one.
--

This aside, all the issues have been obviously commented over and over and over during beta. Blizzard screwed a lot more than it solved. Quest experience was higher before, graphic was better and the general pace of the game was better balanced. But the game isn't really changed.

Many of the issues you report are shared by everyone. I'm collecting the various problems and I think I'll write a post on the beta forums with the list of the major issues and suggest possible solutions.

But the conclusion is that this test is a success. It isn't even a launch and peoples are ranting about the keymap. This is good, the servers seem holding and we are probably a few months away from the real launch. Most of the gameplay issues can be solved without going beyond the aim of the game.

The result of all this is that the reaction is "as expected". There are players that like the game and players that find it not interesting. But this is completely different from a broken game. WoW delivers what it choosed to be. Its ambition can be disappointing but it's a good game inside those limits. It isn't full of broken promises or flawed mechanics.

No, World of Warcraft doesn't make coffee but it's more polished, bug-free and stable than SWG at release and even right now, after more than a year.

And long ago I wrote about those issues:

There are only a number of places and quests to do at any level and everyone is following more or less the same path, finding various bottlenecks in the game. So the players are starting to complain because the server feels overcrowded. They have to wait to finish a quest because there are already groups waiting in line for it.

[...]

Why are we playing a massive game when its massive aspect takes off the fun? Really, why? Why would I ask for a massive PvE game when the content is obviouly more fun if completely instanced? Instanced is equal to faked. But remember that non-instanced PvE content doesn't make it real (the example of the dragon). The players feel that, so they ask for the content to be brough back where it belongs. Where Diablo is.

I see a question for Blizzard. I have many ideas about all these aspects, but the starting question is one. Do you want to make a single-player game or a mmorpg?

[Shockeye]

I have a new game. Hrose can't talk about WoW for the remainder of the stress test. I don't want to see a single solitary one of your arguments or opinions. Let people decide for themselves and shut your fucking fanboi mouth. You're on dangerous territory.

Edit: I'm dead serious about this. I want people to be able to form opinions without HRose stepping in -  so, HRose - you HAVE TO STOP.

<cough>

[El Gallo]

Has anyone set a betting line on HRose's head exploding? Over/Under is midnight Sunday.

Is it too late to take the under?

[WayAbvPar]

Doh! The pundits are going to take a beating on this one.

[Riggswolfe]

EQ - Camping
WoW - Questing

There is SOME camping in WoW such as when a boss mob that isn't in an instance needs to be killed. However, I've not run across any of the "this mob drops awesome loot" kind of camping.

EQ - Downtime
WoW - No downtime (or so little you dont even notice it, except the zepplins and boats, and flying. Longest travel time on any of the three, 6 minutes)


EQ - Job
WoW - Fun
(but I guess this is how you play a game)



EQ - Rip my eyes out rather than play
WoW - Cant wait to play

totally agree.

EQ - Devs dont listen
WoW - Devs make changes baised on feedback from players. Not forum whining. (maybe because its beta)

Agreed however we haven't seen if they'll keep listening after beta. However, the fact they listen to beta testers is encouraging.

EQ - Forced grouping
WoW - solo is very viable as well as grouping.

At low levels. At high levels all the good equipment is in instances and you cannot in any way solo instances unless you're high enough above them that what you get from them is mostly useless anyway. This would be my biggest complaint with WoW right now is how the high end game turns into the standard "I can't get jack shit done by myself" type of gameplay.

EQ - NO real PvP (except pvp server)
WoW - Battlegrounds, and consentual PvP on regular server.

Not a positive for me to be honest. I don't enjoy PvP as it is time-invested based rather than skill-based.

WoW is very much an enjoyable, modern EQ. Some aspects of that I like. Some I don't. For instance, I am so sick of the taunt, dps, heal triad in the EQ mindset I could scream. However, for now I am stuck with it and for the moment WoW has the best implementation of this design I've seen.

As for the various interface bitches..meh. I find the interface just fine personally.

[schild]

...

Why, oh why can you not just STOP. Do I need to make a forum just for you so you can stand on your soapbox and just vomit everywhere around yourself? Tell me what I can do, to keep you from talking about that fucking game.

Hey Morph,

EQ = 5-6 years old
WoW = Not out yet, and only improves upon what EQ already did.

What's your point with all  that crap?

Edit: Confused the dates of EQ and UO.

[Morfiend]

Hey Morph,

EQ = 5-6 years old
WoW = Not out yet, and only improves upon what EQ already did.

What's your point with all  that crap?

Edit: Confused the dates of EQ and UO.

My point was just that despite the surface similarities, the games are much more different than WoW = EQ1.5

[Margalis]

I think the point was obvious. Improving on something is good. It's better than doing something the same, and better still than doing something worse.

An improvement over something decent is...something better. It came out later, it's better...what more do you want?

Tons of great games are just better versions of older games...nothing wrong with that.

[CassandraR]

Even though the systems for kills and quests in WoW work fairly well, it still makes me think the same thing all mmos make me think. 'Man, this game would be sooo much better if there weren't any other people.'

So someone please bring on the single player mmo like games!

[boley]

Even though the systems for kills and quests in WoW work fairly well, it still makes me think the same thing all mmos make me think. 'Man, this game would be sooo much better if there weren't any other people.'

So someone please bring on the single player mmo like games!

http://www.morrowind.com/

[AOFanboi]

So someone please bring on the single player mmo like games!

If you have a PS2, try looking for the .hack RPGs: Basically, you play a person playing a character in a fictional MMORPG, and need to find out about the unknown people running the game in the game.

[CassandraR]

I played both of them and don't like either of them. Here is what im trying to say to make a single player mmo. Take WoW for example.

Firstly leave the game mostly like it is now, except make everything soloable and remove the other people. All the instances and raids and such can be completed with one person. Possibly add other things to make them harder though.

Update it regularly like a normal mmo through patches, and charge subscription like normal. Hopefully because they don't have to run servers they can concentrate more on making content.

Thats pretty much all there is to it.

Things I'd change though is of course make more storyline elements but never give the game an 'ending'. I'd add a real storyline arc for Horde and Alliance as well a full storyline arc for each and every class. Class quests are more fun to me, and I would of rather they made more quests specific to class then just generic.. Its more work but it makes it more fun and personalized.

[Soukyan]

I played both of them and don't like either of them. Here is what im trying to say to make a single player mmo. Take WoW for example.

Firstly leave the game mostly like it is now, except make everything soloable and remove the other people. All the instances and raids and such can be completed with one person. Possibly add other things to make them harder though.

Update it regularly like a normal mmo through patches, and charge subscription like normal. Hopefully because they don't have to run servers they can concentrate more on making content.

Thats pretty much all there is to it.

Things I'd change though is of course make more storyline elements but never give the game an 'ending'. I'd add a real storyline arc for Horde and Alliance as well a full storyline arc for each and every class. Class quests are more fun to me, and I would of rather they made more quests specific to class then just generic.. Its more work but it makes it more fun and personalized.

Something sorta like Fable, yes? After all, WoW would be neat as a single-player, but the world would need to feel more alive in terms of how NPCs act.

[Numtini]

After all, WoW would be neat as a single-player, but the world would need to feel more alive in terms of how NPCs act.

I'd agree with the latter, the world isn't deep enough for single player play, but my problem was I saw it as mostly a single player game anyway. If all grouping means is a random invite to zerg the boss on a quest, you might as well just make him killable by a single player and take the whole thing offline.

On camping vs. questing. After a weekend of doing the quests, I decided the difference was camping vs. travelling. I felt like I was spending far too much of the game running to a mob location to kill them. And less time than I did fighting in an old style EQ camp. Maybe it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, but compared to a LDON/AO type mission, either questing or camping comes in behind missions as a game mechanic.

[Signe]

Since I've not played WoW and have given my beta key away, I can't really comment on this game with any sort of experience.  I actually just stopped in to say that HRose makes me hot and shivery at the same time.

[geldonyetich]

Well, I'm bored of it already.   Though, given my recent stint with SWG, and how I'm going back to playing FFXI, I apparently have no taste.

I think what bothers me the most about WoW is that the gameplay isn't quite as involving as I would like at lower levels - not enough options yet.   I'm burning out at lower levels because I don't have the patience to slog my way to higher levels where the abilities I need now are.   About the most interesting classes are Warlock and Druid, in my opinion, but even they don't have quite enough toys to keep me interested enough to run over and do the next quest anymore.   In other words, they strung the carrots out too far - I need more carrots on the onset to keep me going long enough to get to the later carrots.

I'd like to get the Druid up to level 20, but right now I'm in a state of mind that can't get him logged in at level 11.   I've got bear form.  Between now and 20, I'll get cat form, a bunch of upgraded attacks, and maybe a couple more spells and attacks.   That's not enough.

[Merusk]

Well, I'm bored of it already.   Though, given my recent stint with SWG, and how I'm going back to playing FFXI, I apparently have no taste.

I think what bothers me the most about WoW is that the gameplay isn't quite as involving as I would like at lower levels - not enough options yet.   I'm burning out at lower levels because I don't have the patience to slog my way to higher levels where the abilities I need now are.   About the most interesting classes are Warlock and Druid, in my opinion, but even they don't have quite enough toys to keep me interested enough to run over and do the next quest anymore.   In other words, they strung the carrots out too far - I need more carrots on the onset to keep me going long enough to get to the later carrots.

I'd like to get the Druid up to level 20, but right now I'm in a state of mind that can't get him logged in at level 11.   I've got bear form.  Between now and 20, I'll get cat form, a bunch of upgraded attacks, and maybe a couple more spells and attacks.   That's not enough.

Hm.. rogue is a pretty damn good progression. Not only that but it's incredibly fun.  I've never had much fun as a melee (which is my fav) in other MMOs, but they're really fun to play in WOW.  New abilities or upgrades every even-numbered level.  I've hit 14 and just got my first 'bleed' ability.   It seems the 'generic' classes of Other fantasy MMOs are really, really well defined. (Warrior, Priest, Rogue, Mage) while the hybreds and alternate characters need some serious love & expansion.

[geldonyetich]

Hmm, if the progression tree is interesting, maybe I'll give the Rogue a second look.   I did like the looks of those combos...

Might as well make the best out of this 7 day free Tri^H^H^H^H^H^H^HBeta Stress Test.

[MrHat]

Well, I'm bored of it already.   Though, given my recent stint with SWG, and how I'm going back to playing FFXI, I apparently have no taste.

I think what bothers me the most about WoW is that the gameplay isn't quite as involving as I would like at lower levels - not enough options yet.   I'm burning out at lower levels because I don't have the patience to slog my way to higher levels where the abilities I need now are.   About the most interesting classes are Warlock and Druid, in my opinion, but even they don't have quite enough toys to keep me interested enough to run over and do the next quest anymore.   In other words, they strung the carrots out too far - I need more carrots on the onset to keep me going long enough to get to the later carrots.

I'd like to get the Druid up to level 20, but right now I'm in a state of mind that can't get him logged in at level 11.   I've got bear form.  Between now and 20, I'll get cat form, a bunch of upgraded attacks, and maybe a couple more spells and attacks.   That's not enough.

I know what you mean, I'm trying to get a few chars to 10 just to see if it's worth playing them higher (for now).  I almost wish it had been spaced every level instead of every two levels, because it starts taking longer and longer to go through a pair of levels.

[HRose]

I'm now level 28 and the time to ding a new level is between 4-6 hours, depending on the pace. I'm surely not a minmaxer but I'm going quite fast, I suppose.

You can get infos with the /played command.

[MrHat]

I'm now level 28 and the time to ding a new level is between 4-6 hours, depending on the pace. I'm surely not a minmaxer but I'm going quite fast, I suppose.

You can get infos with the /played command.

Yes, so about 12 hours for new skills.  I guess compared to other games thats not too bad, but I still feel that it should've been 2 skills a level instead of 4 every 2 levels.  That way when you go to town to sell/trade/quest you can be like, oh shit, that's right I leveled!

[Ardent]

Well, I'm bored of it already.

I think what bothers me the most about WoW is that the gameplay isn't quite as involving as I would like at lower levels - not enough options yet.

You're going to be saying this about the beta of another extremely high-profile game very, very soon. And WoW will come out smelling like roses in comparison.

You don't know the meaning of slow, option-free progression yet.

[Soukyan]

Well, I'm bored of it already.

I think what bothers me the most about WoW is that the gameplay isn't quite as involving as I would like at lower levels - not enough options yet.

You're going to be saying this about the beta of another extremely high-profile game very, very soon. And WoW will come out smelling like roses in comparison.

You don't know the meaning of slow, option-free progression yet.

Ah, yes. Leave it to SOE to continue the tradition in EQ2. Can't hardly wait... no... really...

[geldonyetich]

Having a hard time getting myself logged in anymore.

Some general sentiments I'm getting out of WoW:

[*]There needs to be more grouping.  There's little "social" hook here, depriving the game of purpose consideraby.  I'd enjoy this game a lot more if other people wanted to play with me.
[*]Abilities are spread out too much on the leveling ladder.  Even Everquest gave you more than just upgrades at a quicker rate than this.
[*]Leveling slows down waay too much at level 8-10.   The gameflow is all off at that point.  (This would lessen the last issue's impact considerably.)   Maybe it feels better at higher levels, but not where I'm at.
[*]Most Quests are not feeling epic enough.   Fetch does not an epic quest make.
[/list:u]
In the end, I'm feeling much the same way about WoW that I was about CoH: Great game, poor MMORPG.   Actually, CoH retained me considerably longer, perhaps because it had such a radically different approach.

I'll probably be in a few times before the 7 day stress ends to see if things improve if I can get myself to level up a few times.   I'll also probably give the game a shot during open beta to see if they improved it by then.

[Ardent]

Leveling slows down waay too much at level 8-10. The gameflow is all off at that point.

Before the last Patch Of Fanboi Death, the beta boards were full of complaints from people saying exactly the opposite, that levelling was way too fast.

So, armor was severely nerfed in this last patch, which has slowed down levelling do the degree that you can't take on as many mobs as you used to before having to rest.

Blizzard never came out and officially said it was a bug, so I think they purposefully went to an extreme to see how far they could push the numbers, and I am guessing they will ease back again on the next Big Patch, which will make levelling faster again.

Still, even with the way it is now, WoW levelling seems far faster than CoH, and you get abilities at a much, much faster pace. In WoW I'm constantly readjusting my hotbars because I'm trying to juggle all the abilities I use, even at low levels.

[jpark]

I am playing CoH and what I don't understand is why our "guild leader", who downloaded the client for the stress test and has tried WoW - is not still playing.

He found little difference between EQ and WoW although the latter is "prettier" (albiet, how much play time has he really had to arrive at this conclusion).  For him, he is continuing with CoH.

When you level in WoW - I gather you do not assign any attribute points?

[Morfiend]

Abilities are spread out too much on the leveling ladder.  Even Everquest gave you more than just upgrades at a quicker rate than this.

What class are you playing? Remember Talants are only active for 4 classes right now. And starting at lvl 10 you get one talante point per level. These are equilivent to the diablo 2 skill points, just the skill trees are a bit smaller. This helps with not having many abilities.

As a Warrior, a class often considered to have the least few abilities in roleplaying games. I have all four of my hotbars filled with skills and abilities that I am constantly using in combat.

I do agree there is a sucky time around lvl 6-10. Those are the only levels I didnt have that much fun playing. I also think this depends on what starting area you choose via your race. The Night elf area for instance, I had no touble with these levels except for 8. Where as in Undead lands, 5-7 was a pain.