Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (SPOILER INSIDE starting on page 3)

[lamaros]

One thing that struck me as either incredibly odd, or incredibly British, was her refusal to deal with 17 year old boys' sexuality. Hermione and Ron in the woods being chased by the world and they don't even get a flutter in the groin? Does this woman know any 17 year old boys, ferchrissake? Potter, ok, maybe he's too traumatized to get a boner every 5 min like I did when I was 14-17, but the rest of them? No way.

And I don't think it was because sexuality is too 'adult' for a children's book. I mean, she's got a freakin body count going, what's a nocturnal emission gonna hurt?

Hey and what is it with movies beign all "omg violnce woo" but sex is censored..

Oh and that's all GREEN FUCKING TEXT for those of you who have to know such things.

[Ironwood]

Is whinge actually a word? I see this all the time now. Is it just a poorly-spelled whine?

It is a word.  A Britishism though, I fear.

[eldaec]

Don't know about it being a Britishism, the antipodean colonials use it a lot. And 10 seconds with google tells me it also predates the US, apparently it's a word of Scottish and Northern English origin.

Which makes it surprising that it isn't common usage in America, since American English is generally more faithful to historic English than modern 'proper' English is.

Google also tells me the reason you are seeing it a lot lately is that it has been popularised in the US by none other than Harry Potter.

[Simond]

Is whinge actually a word?

Yes.

I see this all the time now. Is it just a poorly-spelled whine?

No.

[tazelbain]

it has been popularised in the US by none other than Harry Potter.

That conniving bitch...

[Daeven]

it has been popularised in the US by none other than Harry Potter.

That conniving bitch...

Don't whinge you prat.

[Paelos]

Whinge sounds like some kind of tool you fix your doors with.

[lamaros]

Whinge is more faithful to the sound than whine, if you ask me.

[Paelos]

Whinge is more faithful to the sound than whine, if you ask me.

Wine is more faithful. Let's just cut the crap.

[Tebonas]

Getting drunk about Harry Potter? At least don't take the cheap wine to avoid a hangover.

[Margalis]

I do have to agree that whinge does sound more like onomonepea. (Chance I spelled that right: 0%)

[Merusk]

onomonepea. (Chance I spelled that right: 0%)

onomatopoeia.

Irony in that it's not spelled exactly like it sounds.

[Ironwood]

Whinge sounds like some kind of tool you fix your doors with.

Wheesht.

[Venkman]

Finally started reading this. It's a page turner in some places, laborious in others. And having followed this thread and read all the spoilers, I know what happens, so am reading just for the details. But what the fuck. They had to kill Hedgewig? There's a whole string of deaths in this book, each one piling up to lessen the impact of everyone dying. Cedric dying in Goblet of Fire, that was powerful stuff. Even more so than Dumbledore because until this book confirmed it, I still thought it was an elaborate hoax. But 27 people dying in as many pages, no matter who they were, no matter the epitaphs in the pages that follows, that's too much.

[Paelos]

Yeah it's like she decided to make it like Hamlet, but then she forgot what made that good.

[pxib]

Harry Potter is a mediocre series of books.

It's awkward, stilted, badly paced, full of limp characterizations and goofy magic. If it hadn't turned into a social phenomenon it would have been completely forgotten... but instead J.K. Rowling is the richest fiction author in the history of the world and we've all got to try to explain to posterity how that happened, so we pretend that she's written something momentous and affecting. We pretend we're disappointed that it never even APPROACHED artistic merit, and try to justify its failure using its few shining moments.

Bullshit.

There are plenty of marvelous, moving books about child wizards and their struggle with dark powers up to no good. My favorite is Diane Duane's _So You Want to be a Wizard_ series. If you don't explicity need wizards try _The Dark is Rising_ (soon to be a crappy movie) or the Prydain Chronicles.

All of these books are better than Harry Potter. Not subjectively... OBJECTIVELY. They are written by talented authors and have more to say than "believe in yourself". If we live in a just world, Harry Potter will be shoved to the side as a curiosity and the true classics of the genre (or unwritten classics of the future) will keep central stage. I rather doubt it, though. More likely Harry Potter will be recommended by parents and teachers for decades because, gee, we must have made Rowling a billionaire for some reason...

[WindupAtheist]

All of these books are better than Harry Potter. Not subjectively... OBJECTIVELY.

Oh fuck off.  I don't even like Harry Potter, but some shrill outraged wannabe literary critic on a web forum screaming about how book X is "OBJECTIVELY" better than book Y?  While simpering about how unfair the world is because some book became way more popular than some other book he liked better?

[Paelos]

Yeah I'm with WUA. (Ugh, it hurts to utter that sentence) However, don't hate on the woman because she wrote a good series of books that struck a chord beyond regular demographics. That's the key you are missing. People of all ages and from all points enjoyed this series, and while they have problems with the way she capped it off they still liked them. They still bought them, and it's still a phenomenon. You know why? It's an accessible series, and the beret-talk as WUA posted won't make books fly off the shelves in a genre so ass-backwards as fantasy.

[cmlancas]

All of these books are better than Harry Potter. Not subjectively... OBJECTIVELY. They are written by talented authors and have more to say than "believe in yourself". If we live in a just world, Harry Potter will be shoved to the side as a curiosity and the true classics of the genre (or unwritten classics of the future) will keep central stage. I rather doubt it, though. More likely Harry Potter will be recommended by parents and teachers for decades because, gee, we must have made Rowling a billionaire for some reason...

This isn't something new to literature you know. People still teach Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe simply because it was so popular in its time (and somewhat for the subject matter). The instructors will flat out tell you it is terrible writing and not to pay attention to it.

But either way, people like Harry Potter. You can't take that away from Rowling. You have to admit that she wrote one hell of a compelling series, the likes of which haven't been seen in children's literature (Barring A Series of Unfortunate Events -- but even then, I wouldn't argue that it is even close in popularity) since arguably The Chronicles of Narnia.

[Phildo]

My favorite is Diane Duane's _So You Want to be a Wizard_ series.

I had completely forgotten about those books until you mentioned them.  They were pretty awesome.

[eldaec]

All of these books are better than Harry Potter. Not subjectively... OBJECTIVELY.

Objective

   adj

             objective
       undistorted by emotion, interpretation, or personal bias; based on observable phenomena.


If you are going to come over all smarter than thou in a discussion about Harry Potter, expect the Grammar Basilisk to be watching.

Or, please be explaining what objective criteria you are talking about; then we can all tell you how nobody gives a crap because they were still fun.

[Daeven]

I would assume his empirical, objective evidence being that they were not authored by Rowling. And had a different number of words. And fewer uses of the idiom 'prat'.

I could be wrong though, as I haven't been able to duplicate his unpublished hypothesis.

[Engels]

Harry Potter is to books as WoW was/is to MMOs, is what I'm hearing here.

[Morat20]

This isn't something new to literature you know. People still teach Uncle Tom's Cabin by Harriet Beecher Stowe simply because it was so popular in its time (and somewhat for the subject matter). The instructors will flat out tell you it is terrible writing and not to pay attention to it.

But either way, people like Harry Potter. You can't take that away from Rowling. You have to admit that she wrote one hell of a compelling series, the likes of which haven't been seen in children's literature (Barring A Series of Unfortunate Events -- but even then, I wouldn't argue that it is even close in popularity) since arguably The Chronicles of Narnia.

It amuses me how so much of what we call 'classical literature' was snubbed as crap by the literary critics of the day.

So in the end, I read what I want and enjoy the hell of out it, and leave the snobbery to others. I admit that I don't care if they fuck up the Golden Compass movie, or if they'd fucked up the Harry Potter movie, but I will fucking hunt down and beat anyone involved in the Dark is Rising movie if it sucks as much as I'm afraid it will. I loved that book as a kid.

Heck, I can still remember the poem -- iron for the birthday, bronze carried long. Wood from the burning, stone out of song. Fire in the candle ring, water from the thaw.

[pxib]

Harry Potter is to books as WoW was/is to MMOs, is what I'm hearing here.

This is a less obnoxious way to say what I said.

I don't think Harry Potter is nearly as polished as WoW, but it is basically the same sort of compilation of old ideas... and it hit the same sort of critical mass. After a certain point it doesn't matter how much you might normally enjoy something... you pick it up because it's all your friends have been talking about lately. Then you enjoy it more than you normally might because you get not only the work itself but the pleasure of being part of a cultural phenomenon. It breaks ice. It makes message board threads.

Maybe I should thank my lucky stars it was J.K. Rowling rather than Clive Cussler.

[Engels]

Now you know how I feel about Robert Jordan.

[Phildo]

Now you know how I feel about Robert Jordan.

Well, you'll only have to feel that way for another year or two.

[Venkman]

Yea, right. The sun'll cool before WoT ends. After the 35th book, I got the impression that Jordan doesn't have the confidence in ending his cash cow that Rowling did in hers' (though, I have no idea if she was confident or just had no choice because of the 7-book badge she's worn since book 1).

As to the "quality" of the Potter books, I consider them to fantasy like I do DaVinci Code to history. They're fun reads, nothing more. And if people are upset by their success, well, if not Potter, something else would set 'em off.

[Merusk]

Yea, right. The sun'll cool before WoT ends. After the 35th book, I got the impression that Jordan doesn't have the confidence in ending his cash cow that Rowling did in hers' (though, I have no idea if she was confident or just had no choice because of the 7-book badge she's worn since book 1).

He meant because Jordan's dying, and actually IS trying to finish the books up because of that.  The question right now is will he finish it before the disease finishes him.

[Venkman]

Damn. Now I feel like shit. That sucks bigtime. It's good to hear he's gotten some improvement, based on that wikipedia entry.

[tazelbain]

Damn. Now I feel like shit. That sucks bigtime. It's good to hear he's gotten some improvement, based on that wikipedia entry.

Don't feel too bad.  Most authors don't need a terminal illness to convince them to get around to finishing their series.

[Morat20]

Damn. Now I feel like shit. That sucks bigtime. It's good to hear he's gotten some improvement, based on that wikipedia entry.

Don't feel too bad.  Most authors don't need a terminal illness to convince them to get around to finishing their series.

It took Stephen King being hit by a fucking car to make him finish the Dark Tower novels. (Not that I'm bitter. I merely waited six years to resolve the cliffhanger in The Waste Lands. I used to joke he spent the time seeking a reall tough riddle.

He was just being lazy.

[Ironwood]

It's hard to write when you've given up the crank.

[Tale]

Hello.

I have avoided your evil spoiler thread for weeks while I found the time to finish the book (thanks car service and taking the bus into work). The book was OK but the thread wasn't worth the wait. WTF eight pages.

Battle camping camping camping camping camping camping battle epilogue.

[Tale]

P.S. The person I thought was most absent from the ending was George. His twin and constant companion is dead, does one-eared George just go and run Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes, does he take three Veela brides, does he jump out of Dumbledore's death window shouting "FRRREDDDYY"? Perhaps I missed it.

The book was what I expected it to be. Rowling doesn't do literature, she does old-fashioned magical storytelling for kids, a lost art that is also appreciated by adults who grew up with that kind of thing. The whole world went crazy around her and she's gone from struggling single mum to the rich list, but she still managed to finish telling the story. That's admirable.

Snape was no surprise. I could understand a child falling for the "Snape is evil" distractions, but not an adult reader. I mean in Dumbledore's death scene he's telling Snape to kill him, it's constantly emphasised that Snape is the master of occlumency and that Dumbledore trusts him no matter what, and so on.

Now I can go and read His Dark Materials again in preparation for the movie.