Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (SPOILER INSIDE starting on page 3)

[Righ]

Mostly beret worry.

[HaemishM]

Or could it be that some of us don't really give a shit one way or the other about the series, but for 2 weeks around the release of every fucking book we can't turn on a channel without being eyefucked with news story after news story about the series like it's release is fucking news.

FILM AT 11: KIDS CAMP OUT FOR HARRY POTTER BOOKS, ADULTS DO TOO!!!!

I'm sure Mrs. Rowlings is very thankful for all the free fucking marketing, but Diane Sawyer and the rest of the Whores Brigade can eat the peanuts out of my shit.

Look, I'm sure the series is quite entertaining for those what like that sort of thing. For someone like me who finds that even getting a publisher to wipe his ass with your novel is difficult, seeing J.K. whine about a spoiler free positive review in the Times days before her more secret than classified government documents manuscript is more than sufficient sandy grains in the old crotch pockets.

[Ironwood]

Finished it.

What a pile of shit.  From start to finish.

 :-D I was waiting for Ironwood's "This is shite!" post. Surprised I didn't see one for the 5th movie also, that kid playing Hermoine didn't get any better.

You haven't liked one since 3, have you? Just curious. 

The composition of the detractors here isn't very surprising at all.

Haven't seen the fifth movie yet.

On the subject of the novels, they lost the charm quite quickly;  That said, it was 6 and 7 that I didn't like, in exponential degrees.  Six was poor writing and seven was fucking atrocious.  She managed to take all the expected direction of the plot and enfuse it with total unreadability.  It was like Drain Cleaner to the eyes it was written so lacklustre.  And I saw absolutely no reason whatsoever for most of her choices in the seventh book.  It turned into a fucking bloodbath for no reason;  I could almost imagine her writing at her desk screaming 'Die You Little Cunts.  Run.  Run From Voldemort, He is YOUR MASTER.'

Seriously, Credit Where It's Due; you know that's my motto.  She doesn't deserve any, much like Donaldson didn't deserve any for his last Covenant Turd.  This, like that, was a fucking mortgage book.

[Lantyssa]

Or could it be that some of us don't really give a shit one way or the other about the series, but for 2 weeks around the release of every fucking book we can't turn on a channel without being eyefucked with news story after news story about the series like it's release is fucking news.

That's my take.

I haven't read any of the books nor seen the films.  I don't care if they're good or not, I'm simply not interested in them.  But the phenomenon of people going crazy over them is fascinating.  There are probably some interesting parallels between Harry Potter and WoW should I ever care to delve that deeply into the psychological and sociological aspects.

[HaemishM]

And just for further clarification, I haven't read any of the books but have seen the first movie. I'm sure I'd have loved it when I was 9, but all it got out of me at the age of 33 was a decided /meh.

[Furiously]

I thought it was a remake of Charlie and the Chocolate factory with other "good" kids.

[eldaec]

Pretty good, not the best in the series, it felt a little too much like a greatest hits tour, running through the last six books saying, 'remember that plot device I didn't completely tie up at the time? Well here you go...'

Really liked the Snape reveal, the inevitable explanation of everything at "Kings Cross" not so much. The bits about dumbledore were well handled. Epilogue sucked, I'd probably have prefered a few a more pages of Hogwarts aftermath.

I was surprised that Draco, Petunia, and Ginny didn't get better plotlines; I think the book could have stood to lose about half the pages at the Burrow and Grimmauld Place, as well as a few random tent stops, to make room for more Ginny and more Draco. Also the Ron/Hermione thing was pretty damn clunky.

Oh, and apparition. Seriously, that was exactly as sucky a plot device as I expected; but happily, towards the end Rowling seems to realise this and simply declare 'and now nobody can apparate'.

Unlike the other books, this one had absolutely no self contained story arc, it was *only* the 7th part of a series. To some extent you could say the same about Phoenix and Prince, but much more so here.

[Jeff Kelly]

oh fuck

oh man

I have to assume people that care won't read this thread. As such...

Rowling is a terrible writer and sell-out.

Hilarious. Epilogue is up at YTMND.

Edit: Fuckit, Here's a link.

I really suggest you just skip reading the last book and come up with your own ending. Danielle Steele writes better shit than this.

I've read the book and you are wrong.

It is a damn fine book, the wrap up was done extremely well and everybody in this thread complaining about bitches and singing the "oh it's popular so it must suck" tune should chill the fuck out.

[Jeff Kelly]

For the past two day whenever a friend of mine is on the phone I lean over and yell "Harry Dies!!!"

You know what's awesome?  Telling people fake spoilers.  Just to fuck with them.

That's pathetic beyond belief. Not liking something I can relate to but being so cynical, jaded and miserable as to outright ruining someone else's fun with something you don't like?

[Jeff Kelly]

Or could it be that some of us don't really give a shit one way or the other about the series, but for 2 weeks around the release of every fucking book we can't turn on a channel without being eyefucked with news story after news story about the series like it's release is fucking news.

Your television has multiple programs and an off switch. Nobody is forcing you to watch.

[Margalis]

Fake spoilers don't ruin anything, especially since everyone I do that to knows I'm being an idiot.

Good conversation I had with my English Prof friend:

"So....what do you think of Harry Potter?"
"I don't."

From what I understand, the last book just isn't that good. It has a bunch of stuff borrowed from other books, it is predictable, the epilogue sucks, most people got bored in the middle and the parts most people like the most, wacky goings-on at Hogwarts, were almost entirely absent.

[CmdrSlack]

Look, I'm sure the series is quite entertaining for those what like that sort of thing. For someone like me who finds that even getting a publisher to wipe his ass with your novel is difficult, seeing J.K. whine about a spoiler free positive review in the Times days before her more secret than classified government documents manuscript is more than sufficient sandy grains in the old crotch pockets.

So you're bitter because you think she doesn't deserve to be pissed about her book release because you haven't managed to get published yet? Fuck, the series is a big deal to a lot of people, I think it's a bit beyond "those what like that sort of thing." Just because it's popular doesn't make it unworthy as literature/lowbrow, just like your difficulty getting your book published doesn't make it highbrow.

Most conversations about, well, anything involving taste/highbrow lowbrow can pretty much be crafted into a parody of the Kids In The Hall "Doors Fan" sketch.

"You know that new Depeche Mode album?  It sucks. You know what? That new Cure album? It sucks. That new Happy Mondays album? I don't know if there is one, but if there is, it sucks. I can say this, cause I know. Because I'm a Doors fan."

[ahoythematey]

Fuck the haters with their noses stuck in the air, the book was good.  Severus Snape joins Atticus Finch, Jubal Harshaw, and Chief Beatty as one of my favorite literary figures.

Now that's just downright depressing.

I like that Snape is a huge asshole throughout the entire series but still manages some heroics.  I've enjoyed reading every book and that's really all that matters to me.  I'm not saying these are Great Books, but they have memorable characters and they get children reading.  Anything to keep kids from watching anime and television is okay in my book.

And like cmdrslack says, it becomes tired when you start hating something simply because it is so popular.  It'd be akin to writing off God of War for the same reasons.  Find out what you think for yourself before saying it's shit, and watching the movies just does not count.

[Merusk]

Y'know, my biggest disappointment with the whole series was the Harry was the most one-dimensional character of the bunch.  7 books and he's still pretty much the same clueless, lucky SOB only angrier.

Snape, however, turned out pretty damn cool.  Fucker.

[Margalis]

And like cmdrslack says, it becomes tired when you start hating something simply because it is so popular.

You know what else is tired? A bunch of people pretending that Harry Potter is the best fucking series of books ever written. The whole release party, read it on day one nonsense is at the "gotta catch em all" level.

I won't say Harry Potter is awful, it isn't. But it just isn't that great either, and certainly not worth the tremendous hype. And watching reading books turn into brainless summer movie event shit is depressing.

[Phildo]

What's wrong with a party?  A bunch of people getting together to have fun based around a common interest?  You're not gonna start telling me going to concerts is bad next?  How about political rallies?  Birthday parties?  So what if, at its center, is a mediocre fantasy series?  At any rate, it's better than a Wheel of Time party or something like that.

Me, I read the book in one day because I know that a whole bunch of other people will be talking about it already and spoiling shit by accident.  Hell, Schild spoiled the Snape killing Dumbledore thing for me in person. "Hey, come check out this website!"  Fucker.

[ahoythematey]

Who the fuck is saying Harry Potter is the best fucking series of books ever written, or anything similar?  Is it because that so many others like it that you have to fucking bitch and moan about the whole thing instead of saying, "it's not my thing" or "I think it's overrated"?  The pretentious art-fags that don't like the series and are saying so with such vehemence are doing so because it is so popular and mainstream, don't for one second pretend otherwise.  It'd be akin to me, somebody who doesn't like the xbox, coming onto a thread for Halo3 and saying the 360 is the worlds biggest piece of shit since the dookie that came out of the last dinosaurs's ass and that everybody who likes it are like AIDS to the animal kingdom.

Nobody is asking anybody to like the series, but acting like a fucktard because some people do is asinine.

[Margalis]

I'll gladly be an art fag if we can call you a petulant child. Deal?

I have to laugh at the Harry Potter fans who say it's just ok or pretty good. Then why are there fucking release parties and a million books sold on day one, discussions on every website, etc etc. That isn't how people treat merely decent books.

There are really only two explanations. One is that they simply luuuuurve the books. The other is that they have a pathetic need to be part of some larger cultural event, regardless of the quality of the item it is centered around. If art fags complain only because it is popular, than brats like yourself defend it so vehemently for exactly the same reason.

As I said, I'm sad to see books become the equivalent of the big summer "event movie", where it isn't about a personal experience but simply about celebrating popularity.

If Harry Potter is merely a good book why don't people treat it like they treat other good books? Sorry, that shoe doesn't fit.

[CmdrSlack]

It's not a binary world. You have apeshit fans of most stuff, you have less apeshit fans of the same stuff, you have people who also hate that stuff.

I liked the Harry Potter stuff I read, but I haven't run out to get the new book yet either.  I don't personally know anyone who dressed up for release day, but I have a friend who works at Borders and was dreading that day for that very reason. She also happens to like the books.

I really don't see how there can't be a middle ground on Harry Potter fandom.

[WindupAtheist]

On one hand, I don't give two shits about Harry Potter one way or another.  On the other hand, death to the Beret Patrol.  I'll come join your anti-anti-fanboy death squad, but only if I can come dressed as Darth Vader.

Oh, and fake spoilers rule.  Somewhere someone is reading that book, waiting in dread for the part where Hermione dies, only it's never going to happen.  Think how relieved she'll be.  Another fun thing to do is to just start making up spoilers, but keep getting crazier with them until the person you're talking to finally realizes you're bullshitting them.

"Ron is not really a woman!  That can't be true!  Have you even read the book?!"
"Well, no."

[Margalis]

It's not a binary world. You have apeshit fans of most stuff, you have less apeshit fans of the same stuff, you have people who also hate that stuff.

I liked the Harry Potter stuff I read, but I haven't run out to get the new book yet either.

Well of course. I consider that a very healthy attitude. And again, I don't hate the Harry Potter books. There is far worse stuff. What I hate is the reaction to them and the way reading has been turned from a personal experience into a hyped event.

Buying things on the day they are released reminds me far too much of opening weekends for movies and the fixation on immediate box-office results. It's just nonsense to me that there are books that the public HAS JUST GOT TO READ RIGHT NOW!!!

I understand the need to avoid spoilers, but the end didn't surprise anybody anyway.

[CmdrSlack]

What turned it into a hyped event, IMO, was simply the fact that people were willing to wait in line. It's just like the people who waited in line for [insert crazy time period here] for the [insert console release here]. Shit, I used to remember when we'd camp out for concert tickets (before the wristband system came along) and there'd be a local news van there.

This just happens to have people willing to wait in line in multiple countries, etc. And they like to dress up. Just like the people at Gen Con, etc. For whatever reason, it's just more socially "acceptable" to be a Potter-dweeb, I guess.

I did think that video from the last book's release with the guys in the car driving by a Barnes and Noble yelling, "Snape kills Dumbledore!" was brilliant, tho.

[Venkman]

I saw all three movies at midnight of their opening, the years they came out. By that third time I really didn't want to, being old and all, but by that point it was peer pressure. These weren't the best movies ever made. They weren't even original concepts in storytelling. I didn't rob people to get there. I didn't neglect my family, since they were already asleep. And they were pretty well hyped, and popular, and people liked them, and they got lots of press, and all that stuff that would normally make mouthbreathing world-haters go all bonkers...

... except those movies were for them, being LoTR.

One man's junk is another man's treasure. Catchy, and so fucking true. Get a grip.

(not you personally Margalis ;) ).

[Merusk]

Y'know why  I bought the book and read it on the first day?

Assholes and the internet.  I knew if I didn't read it that day I'd have to avoid the internet for weeks, because I hate having shit spoiled for me.  It reduces the tension and enjoyment of that first time experience of a book or a film and turns it all sour. 

You want to bitch about the hype, blame the media in the first place.  All the coverage, all that bullshit is because they don't want to cover real fucking news.  Direct your anger at the right source, here.

[Signe]

I haven't read the book yet or seen the latest film.  I'll probably read the book over the weekend and see the film when it comes to DvD.  I don't mind spoilers too much.  I don't seek them out but I'm far too lazy to actually avoid them.

[Margalis]

Spoiler: There's nothing worth spoiling.

In all seriousness, I don't think the ending really surprised many people.

[Calantus]

Y'know, my biggest disappointment with the whole series was the Harry was the most one-dimensional character of the bunch.  7 books and he's still pretty much the same clueless, lucky SOB only angrier.

This. I hate this so much. I'm getting tired of reading about people who are "underpowered" and frustrated all the time. I don't want some invincible hero, but geez, make them competant. Make them win through actually being good at what they do and knowing what the hell is going on rather than stumbling about and getting lucky/help.

That's why the first book I liked, the next 2 were okay books, but after that I didn't find them all that enjoyable. He was a kid who had never really done magic before in the first book so it's cool he's clueless. In the next 2 books he's still learning so it's all good. But after that... jesus fuck Harry learn some new spells. The only reason he's even considered good at defence against the dark arts is because every other wizard is as clueless, stupid, and useless as the general populace only they have magic. Seriously, everyone was just a normal person except a small handful like Snape and Dumbledore. Voldemorte didn't impress me as a bad guy, he was just a decent wizard who used illegal spells. There's no reason he should have been as huge a threat as he was to the world. In just about any other book he'd be the first chapter baddy the hero stomps on accidently in a rush to get at/away from the real baddies. The more the world turned to how much of a threat Voldemorte was the more I yawned through it. The books had merit when it was just about Harry learning magic and solving the school crisis of the year. I was going for that angle. Half-assed mage student fighting against and beating through pure dumb luck the biggest threat to the world that's only a threat because the world is full of idiots and its all localised in a very small area because well fuck there is no real reason but hey you should believe this is totally serious and dark and shit? Not really.

And I'm not hating on it because it's popular. I like WoW and Final Fantasy. I am therefore immune to the "you hate everything popular" shtick.

[Phildo]

I have to laugh at the Harry Potter fans who say it's just ok or pretty good. Then why are there fucking release parties and a million books sold on day one, discussions on every website, etc etc. That isn't how people treat merely decent books.

Actually, yes it is.  When was the last time anyone had a release party for a book you would consider excellent?  Harry Potter has two things going for it: the writing ISN'T complicated or overly intellectual, and this is the SEVENTH book in the series.  It appeals to the general public, and people have been waiting for this for ten years.

It's the same with any of the long series.  Imagine how people who are reading the Wheel of Time will feel when (if) that last book ever comes out.  I suspect I'll buy it right away just to get the damn thing over with.  I first read the Sorcerer's Stone because I enjoyed the movie, so I've only been waiting five years.  The anticipation of finishing the damn thing even though I thoroughly expected to be let down was dreadful.  Worse even than the damn Star Wars prequels.  George Lucas ruined three of my birthdays.  Fuck him.  I want my five bucks back.

[Tebonas]

Y'know why  I bought the book and read it on the first day?

Assholes and the internet.  I knew if I didn't read it that day I'd have to avoid the internet for weeks, because I hate having shit spoiled for me.  It reduces the tension and enjoyment of that first time experience of a book or a film and turns it all sour. 

You want to bitch about the hype, blame the media in the first place.  All the coverage, all that bullshit is because they don't want to cover real fucking news.  Direct your anger at the right source, here.

What he says. I didn't even bother to buy the previous books myself, my sister gave them to me after she was done with them. But the hype about this one was ridiculous. Spoilers on the internet (which was to be expected), television (I wake up to morning TV running and what do I read before I find the off-switch "Ginny marries Potter - WTF), and newspapers. Reading that book as soon as I did was forced upon me if I wanted to read it at all.
Its the last book of a series. If you are invested in the characters (some of them, fuck that whiny asshole Harry Potter) you want to know how it all ends, even if you don't think it is the best book ever. No mystery to that.

Edit: I admit, if I knew what I know now I could have waited. The book was very predictable, and the fear of spoilers was worse than any spoiler could have been in itself.

[Ironwood]

Look, I've already answered it, but I'm going to answer it again.  I'm not hating the 7th book because it is popular to do so, or cool to bash it because it is popular.  That's fucking retarded.

I'm bashing it because it was BAD.  I enjoy the Harry Potter thing.  I just think that along the way it became something else entirely and got a lot less good.  Personally, I liked The Order the best, but I honestly thought that an Editor with a Hedge Trimmer could (And SHOULD) have cut that thing right back to the bone.  It was so bloated it was unreal.  The Prince was a little better for that, but the trouble was it was shittier plot wise and no-one really cared.  The Ministry got fucking stupid real early and so did the Percy storyline.  Hell, I could rant for pages and submit a fucking essay (this was my degree, remember) on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, and the weakness get LEGION towards the end.  There was little to no reason for the Bloodbath and the Kings Cross Chapter was almost a word for word steal from the worst of the Matrix films.  I expect the film version of this book to have dead dumbledore in a white suit flanked by rows of TV monitors.

Sorry, guys, I'm not hating for no reason - This book was shite.  The 19 years later bomb was just a rusty knife slice to the scrotum.

Carry on with your pointless debate.

[Tebonas]

I don't think anybody accuses you of that. Others in this thread that showed similar tendencies towards other products in the past seem to be the target.

Personally I can't muster enough energy one way or the other. Its the book equivalent of a popcorn movie. I've read TSR books that were worse, but also some that were better (and we are not talking great literature here, but Dragonlance novel 3854).

[Ironwood]

...And who the fuck in their right mind makes the most exciting search for the Horcruxes a fucking miserable camping trip in Skegness ? 

DULL.  The First Part was DULL AS FUCKING DISHWATER.  THE WEDDING WAS DULL.  VOLDEMORT SWOOPING AROUND LIKE A BAT CHASING PEOPLE YET HAVING NO CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING AND BEING TOTALLY FUCKING INCOMPETANT WAS DULL.

Hell, even the Dementors were fucking Dull this time round.

"Oh Noes, Dementors in teh forest, I'll never get past them due to my Patronus being all limp and flacid, I must summon teh Dead Parentz. Kthx Bai."

Weak.

[Tebonas]

You forget the perfect plan to break into the most secure bank ever. With a transformation spell they used since they were children.

[Ironwood]

And what's with the casual use of the 4 Unforgiveable Curses ?

That Bank Break in was like a re-tread of Oceans 12.

Yes, it was that bad.


And the Goblin just nicked the sword and ran, but it's ok, I'm sure they'll find some more basilisk venom, oh wait, they did !  Awesome !

Yeah, I gotta stop now, I'm being a prick.

[Tebonas]

You sure they were still unvorgivable? Didn't even McGonagall use one of them?

Now you did it. Once you think about that book for a second it breaks down - completely.