Nintendo and Online Gaming of the Massive Variety

[ForumBot 0.8 beta]

Nintendo and Online Gaming of the Massive Variety

Historically speaking, f13.net is a site somewhat dedicated to MMOGs. Which is to say, a lot of people here play them. A lot of people here like the Wii as well. So I figured the following was an interested group of sentences.

There will never be a Wii MMOG unless Nintendo radically changes their online stance. Apparently they "don't get it." One of their requirements for an online title is "No patching, Ever."

This doesn't come out of nowhere, let's just call it "overheard at E3." I assume this also ruins the chance for balance patches in fighting games and anything else that may be in dire need of a fix. I suppose it's not a shock with that friend code BS, not to mention the lack of a hard drive. Either way, all of those (including myself) who wanted to show the world their pokemans are going to have to wait. Fin.

[Chimpy]

Is this the underlying reason that you hate the Wii, not being able to show your pokemans to others?

[schild]

Is this the underlying reason that you hate the Wii, not being able to show your pokemans to others?

I can show my "pokemons" to anyone playing Uno on Xbox Live.

I've just always wanted a pokemon mmog. The original draft said "Pokemonline," Mayhaps I should have stuck with that.

Anyway, not getting one, Nintendo is scared of guys dressed as girls raping guys.

[Nonentity]

No patching? Ever?

Are they HIGH?

This isn't about 'oh, you know, games are made so crappy now, blah blah' - the fact of the matter is, there are some downright shitty and buggy games. We know.

But, there are some amazingly well made and high-budget games, that just happened to have a few bugs slip through the cracks. Invariably, it will need to be patched.

It just makes me think that Nintendo is run by a bunch of old blowhards saying 'They just don't make games like they used to. Please excuse me while I put this big band music on the Victrola.'

Fuck.

FUCK.

EDIT: IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU HAVE ONLINE PLAY ON YOUR CONSOLE, LET ME PATCH MY GODDAMN GAMES YOU HAD A PHYSICS BUG IN THAT MADE CARS DRIVE THROUGH WALLS OR SOMETHING. Christ.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

I think that the Wii is starting to grow old for me. I need to see more awesome innovative stuff coming out for it here really soon cause it really is just kinda sitting there. I don't like how Nintendo handles their online structure and I am kinda at a loss as to what the hell they are trying to accomplish. I just really don't think that the casual gamer and the ultra-casual gamer will be what keeps Nintendo's wallets lined. I think that a lot of good games AND some good casual gaming is what they need. I think that this is why the DS is doing so well and this is what the Wii needs to succeed. Nintendo rally needs to stop f'ing around and get their crap together.

[Margalis]

I wouldn't take something someone overheard all that seriously. In particular, there is a difference between a patch and an update.

That said, I doubt a MMORPG will ever come to the Wii.

[schild]

I wouldn't take something someone overheard all that seriously. In particular, there is a difference between a patch and an update.

That said, I doubt a MMORPG will ever come to the Wii.

Overheard was in quotes.

[Roac]

This is news?  I would be surprised if Nintendo *could* patch anything, since all they have is internal memory.  Maybe if you only need to patch a few meg of bin and can split loading between the mem card and DVD... but anyway, this is Nintendo.  They're planning to do anything online besides their store and Everyone Votes (or whatever)?

If you want online, get a 360.

[Margalis]

Didn't EverQuest Online Adventures run on the PS2 without even using the hard drive?

Patching is very possible without a hard drive, you just load code from the DVD then overwrite whatever sections with code from internal memory. Also I think the distinction between a patch and an update is a very important one.

[squirrel]

Not surprising to me at all - even if the "no patching" part is true. Look at the market they've targeted and the technology in the console. While I could see an interesting multiplayer sport or pokemon style game, the Wii just isn't equipped to compete in the MMOG world. Nor should it. With a positive profit margin and fast penetration Ninty should focus on adding excellent titles that suit the console, not delving into a genre that would highlight it's weakness.

[Murgos]

Didn't EverQuest Online Adventures run on the PS2 without even using the hard drive?

As I recall you did have to have the PS2 HD to play EQOA.

Patching is very possible without a hard drive, you just load code from the DVD then overwrite whatever sections with code from internal memory. Also I think the distinction between a patch and an update is a very important one.

What, like every time you start the game?

[Bokonon]

Not surprising to me at all - even if the "no patching" part is true. Look at the market they've targeted and the technology in the console. While I could see an interesting multiplayer sport or pokemon style game, the Wii just isn't equipped to compete in the MMOG world. Nor should it. With a positive profit margin and fast penetration Ninty should focus on adding excellent titles that suit the console, not delving into a genre that would highlight it's weakness.

So true. Anyway, there have already been "patches" to VC games (you can go back to the VC UI and "update" your game); I think they are just trying to keep the tech knowledge required of the user to a minimum, which is in line with their "blue ocean" strategy.

-M

[Trippy]

Didn't EverQuest Online Adventures run on the PS2 without even using the hard drive?

As I recall you did have to have the PS2 HD to play EQOA.

Nope.

[Shrike]

EQOA didn't need the hardrive. At least not before the first expansion.

FFXI needed the HD. I played EQOA for about, ehh, 3-4 months before the first expansion came out. It "patched" plenty. Always kind of wondered how they pulled that off with just the memory cards.

[Roac]

FFXI needed the HD. I played EQOA for about, ehh, 3-4 months before the first expansion came out. It "patched" plenty. Always kind of wondered how they pulled that off with just the memory cards.

The big thing that gobble space is multimedia; character models, cutscenes, sound files, etc.  Content.  You don't patch content this way, but your binaries are typically much smaller and could possibly fit in a few meg or at least a few dozen meg.  So long as you're careful about breaking out your logic, you may get by with patching only a few dozen files of 100k each depending on how much of your product needs changing.

[Venkman]

Why the fixation on patching?

To me, Nintendo is not interested in MMORPGs because the vast majority of them require immersion in a very singular static activity surrounded by a bunch of random people that can do you harm.

Nintendo lives in the Webkinz world: give just enough of an "online" experience to have microeconomies with short and long term unlockable customization. But shelter the players from the hazards of random social encounters as much as possible by giving them largely single-player or dedicated-group small multiplayer games.

That the vast majority of people in the world do not play MMOs, and that those that are "online" are mostly playing single-player games means Nintendo could spend the next two generations of consoles completely ignoring MMO players until it is determined whether the core MMORPG genre will actually grow on the backs of Achievers, or whether it'll be fundamentally changed by having to finally recognize the truth growth comes from going with everyone else.

[Jerrith]

FFXI needed the HD. I played EQOA for about, ehh, 3-4 months before the first expansion came out. It "patched" plenty. Always kind of wondered how they pulled that off with just the memory cards.

The big thing that gobble space is multimedia; character models, cutscenes, sound files, etc.  Content.  You don't patch content this way, but your binaries are typically much smaller and could possibly fit in a few meg or at least a few dozen meg.  So long as you're careful about breaking out your logic, you may get by with patching only a few dozen files of 100k each depending on how much of your product needs changing.

That's exactly it.  Basically, the PS2 memory card is 8MB in size.  During beta, they reserved 4 MB on the memory card for the compressed, patched files.  I believe that by release, they managed to reduce this still further to just 2 MB, which they then have used ever since.  It's a fairly impressive technical accomplishment, at least to me.

[HaemishM]

When Nintendo officially says "No patching" in a press release, I'll believe it. Until then, it's just internet rumor which has about as much validity as anything Kotaku ever says that also doesn't have an accompanying press release.

And as said, the difference between "patch" and "update" can be huge. I expect the EA Sports games to have updates, since they need to be able to offer updated rosters. Patches that do not add new multimedia content don't need large swaths of memory anyway. As for MMOG's not coming to Wii, I don't expect them on this generation of the Wii anyway, despite how much I'd like them. Nintendo is learning their online strategy with this console, in their typical awkward way.

[Yegolev]

Why play a MOG on the Wii when you can play better ones on the PC for cheaper?

[HaemishM]

If it had sword-figthing on par with Red Steel or better using the Wii controls, I'd be all over it.

[murdoc]

If it had sword-figthing on par with Red Steel or better using the Wii controls, I'd be all over it.

Maybe raids would be a little shorter if that were the case. I don't see many gaming sessions where I'm waving my arms around for 8 hours at a time.

[HaemishM]

If it had sword-figthing on par with Red Steel or better using the Wii controls, I'd be all over it.

Maybe raids would be a little shorter if that were the case. I don't see many gaming sessions where I'm waving my arms around for 8 hours at a time.

You aren't searching for pr0n enough.