Ricers get Steamed then Crushed

[Paelos]

These are not simply people that like to "fiddle with their cars." These are the kind of idiots that race streetlight to streetlight in the cars their parents bought, with all kinds of stupid mods that hurt more than help the car's performance.

Exactly, anyone that knows cars would never do the shit they are doing to keep a well-maintained vehicle. Look at the ages of the people being caught in the article, how many of them are even over the age of 20? I was a fucking moron at that age, and I had a stock GT Mustang. I honestly don't care if crushing the cars stops it or not. It's pure awesome to watch somebody who has no grasp of reality get shit on by the man. Fuck you, ricers. You get what you deserve. Race legally.

[Signe]

Oh you are so arrogant what with that elegant top hat worn at a jaunty angle and those slick dance moves.  Damn you Monkeys!

[Chimpy]

Oh you are so arrogant what with that elegant top hat worn at a jaunty angle and those slick dance moves.  Damn you Monkeys!

Do not mock the simian population, zombie woman!

 

[sinij]

These are not simply people that like to "fiddle with their cars." These are the kind of idiots that race streetlight to streetlight in the cars their parents bought, with all kinds of stupid mods that hurt more than help the car's performance.

"race streetlight to streetlight" is key here, anything else, like aftermarket mods, is irrelevant. Lets say fad would change and it become 'in' thing to do it in 100% OEM sport cars... would it be any less harmful or any less prone to crashes? They destroyed cars not for what these kids did, but for what these cars represent... and that is wrong.

[Chimpy]

These are not simply people that like to "fiddle with their cars." These are the kind of idiots that race streetlight to streetlight in the cars their parents bought, with all kinds of stupid mods that hurt more than help the car's performance.

"race streetlight to streetlight" is key here, anything else, like aftermarket mods, is irrelevant. Lets say fad would change and it become 'in' thing to do it in 100% OEM sport cars... would it be any less harmful or any less prone to crashes? They destroyed cars not for what these kids did, but for what these cars represent... and that is wrong.

The article is poorly written as it does not talk about the process that law enforcement used. Several of those kids were quoted as saying that they did in fact street race in those cars, so chances are there were eyewitnesses who snitched these guys' names, and they impounded the cars under the mod-laws since they would have to catch the racing in the act to prosecute charges on it.

[CmdrSlack]

More examples of Sinji's lack of reading comprehension:

Hoang said he was caught late last year racing his prized car, on which he spent at least $10,000 to get into top shape. The 350-horsepower engine topped out at 160 mph, Hoang said, swearing it could beat a Corvette or even a Ferrari.

When police popped open the hood, Hoang said, they found a stolen transmission. Hoang flashed a receipt for the transmission he bought from his father who runs an auto shop and doubted the item was hot.

So let's see...this guy was caught racing.  And he had stolen parts in his car. This took me 15 seconds of skimming to find. I have helpfully added the bold text to help you zero in on the important parts, because I know that it's tough to parse a whopping four sentences.

Now here's a guy who admitted to being a ricer racer, but was actually nailed for a bad taillight and then, you know, stolen parts.  The operative part there is STOLEN since, you know, one would assume those parts are illegal to have due to being, oh, I dunno.....stolen.

Most of the cars police examine are illegally modified. Sergio Zavala, 18, was pulled over in his 1993 yellow Honda Civic for a broken tail light in December. He had purchased a B-20 Vtech engine with a double-overhead cam a couple months before, and after a police investigation, was told it was stolen.

Zavala, who admits he's been involved in street racing, estimates he and his mother spent about $10,000 on improvements to his car.

So perhaps this guy wasn't caught racing.  He was caught with stolen parts in his car.  Should they have let the car go because he wasn't caught while racing?  Hell, at very least, they should have taken the stolen parts out and left him to figure out the rest.  Personally, I think crushing was cooler.

It's nice to know that you have an opinion on everything and all, but read the fucking article before saying that it doesn't say what it actually says.

The third kid the article mentions was pulled over at a place where kids tend to street race. My guess is that he was not there accidentally. 

[Ironwood]

Do you think he was racing ?

[sinij]

Way article was written its hard to tell what exactly happened. As to stolen parts - read previous posts. I don't trust officer to make that determination after pulling someone over for broken tail light.

[sinij]

Do you think he was racing ?

I'm sure they all did street racing at some point and in karmic sense deserved it, but I also think that not sufficient reason to skip due process by using loopholes.

[Lantyssa]

I polish my windshield with your tears.

[Samwise]

Meow meow, we like ricer tears.

[Bunk]

Street legal Friday nights at the local track: http://www.missionraceway.com/mrpsched/mrpschedule.htm
 = Good

Dead bystanders due to Street Racing: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060528/crash_fatal_060528/20060528?hub=CTVNewsAt11
 = Bad

Ricers getting the car they built with Daddy's money, and then proceeded to race through 60k zones at 140k, turned in to a rice-cake?
 = Cry me a fucking river, noob.

[sinij]

How about being pulled over for broken taillight on your way to "Friday nights at the local track" and getting your car crushed since your custom gear box does not match vin numbers on your car?

I don't think cops should be prosecuting anyone based on what they drive but rather on how they drive it.

[CmdrSlack]

The whole process of getting the court order to crush the car requires a hearing, and meeting the appropriate burden of proof.  It's not like Officer Bob pulls someone over and then has the car towed and insta-crushed.

Seriously, you're making mountains out of ricer tears here.

[Chimpy]

getting your car crushed since your custom gear box does not match vin numbers on your car?

If your tranny has a valid, non-matching VIN# I am sure you will have no problems. But if it has had the VIN# doctored or removed, it is as red a flag as the ones hanging at the Nuremburg Rallies that it is sketchy and the cops will probably start the crush-o-matic proceedings.

[Merusk]

Also, cops don't prosecute anyone.

[Paelos]

How about being pulled over for broken taillight on your way to "Friday nights at the local track" and getting your car crushed since your custom gear box does not match vin numbers on your car?

I don't think cops should be prosecuting anyone based on what they drive but rather on how they drive it.

Let me run this down for you in numbers:

1) The guy who got pulled over for a broken taillight had a hot ENGINE. His fucking engine in the car was stolen. It wasn't something as simple as a gear box, and don't even bother trying to tell me that's accidental. And what are they going to do, take the engine out and sell it to charity? Hell no.

2) He probably got pulled over for having a broken taillight, but that was just the probable cause since it was obvious he's a racer. I mean how many ricer upgrade jobs have you seen on the roads that are subtle?

3) Cops have always targetted people based on what they drive, and to think otherwise is purely naive. There's a reason we have laws on what is street-legal simply because we don't want people flying around the roads in deathmachines trying to outrace police or each other. Not to mention the fact that these machines were basically chop-shop nightmares.

[Strazos]

And lets not forget some of the popular mods the kids like to do actually Degrade performance, making the cars More Dangerous to drive than they already were.

And seriously Sinij, the cars were not instantly destroyed on sight.


About the kid with the tranny that he supposedly bought legally...on the off chance that he Did legally buy it from his father's garage, he would probably have legal recourse to at least recoup That money since he was sold illegal goods unknowingly. I guess that's the price you pay when you buy parts from shady sources.

But since it's his dad, I doubt he's gonna sue to get the money back.

[Righ]

So we've determined that Sinij has a car full of meticulously laundered stolen parts?

[Roac]

And seriously Sinij, the cars were not instantly destroyed on sight.

Yes they do.  The cops have a Rice Press on standby at all times.  If you or your car look Asian they Uncle Ben your ass right there on the street corner.  BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT COPS DO.  Oh, and the news reporting this finds it not at all odd. 

[Paelos]

So we've determined that Sinij has a car full of meticulously laundered stolen parts?

I think mostly we've determined that Sinij has an affinity for a culture that most people here wouldn't mind seeing crushed into oblivion. Other than that, it's just fun to chuckle at stupid teens getting their dicks stamped on by the gub-ment. Welcome to America, bitches.

And I also had a good chuckle at Roac. Capital sarcasm.

[sinij]

No I hate street racers and you won't catch me driving anything even slightly rice. My rides are 735i BMW, Porsche 911 and few other classic cars. Most 15+ year cars that I only drive during the summer but all in top-notch shape. My daily ride is 100% stock FX35. I don't street race. I occasionally modify my cars, but mostly to tune suspension and brakes to improve handling. I occasionally take my cars for a fast spin on a race track but even there don't push them much in order to avoid causing mechanical damage.

Once I had to go fight in court off-the-wall tickets for imaginary mods my car supposedly had. I won but had to  prove my innocence, since in court ignorant cop who has no clue still considered 'expert witness'. It cost me considerable time and money (to pay mechanics familiar with my car to appear as expert witness on my side) to not have to pay tickets and to avoid being forced to take my classic car to 'certified shop' to have it vandalized by unqualified mechanics to get it brought to a standard that does not even apply to it.

So I *know* that system does not always works as intended, as such I strongly advocate to go directly after street racing rather than providing more tools for bad cops to abuse. You busted street racing, even if you drove your grandma's CrownVic, your car get crushed, otherwise get the fuck away from my ride.

[CmdrSlack]

Actually, you didn't get violated by THE MAN, you had due process.  You won, because you managed to disprove the state's case. Quite honestly, all you had to do was disprove one element of whatever they were charging you with -- sometimes it's even easier than that. That you spent the money bringing in mechanics was your choice (and if you really own those cars, you can afford it). Odds are you didn't NEED those witnesses. Did you hire an attorney (or at least consult with one)? Heck, they're not always needed for a ticket situation, but many will consult for free. Good ones will even tell you if you really need them or not.

Of course, without knowing what you were specifically ticketed for, it's hard to say any of that with 100% certainty.

Regardless, you saw the system working as intended. Cop ticketed you, you contested it, you then got a result. That's how the process works. My wife and I had our cars towed once for a parade. There was no notice given to us the night before when we parked our cars (11pm and 1am) that there would be a parade, nor that the place we were parking was going to be a tow zone. We showed up to contest the towing and get our cash back. The city couldn't prove when they posted the temporary no parking zone signs. We won. It is simply how the system works.

[bhodi]

But what about stuff like seized money under the US drug laws? All they need to do is SUSPECT you, no proof needed, and your money/car/whatever is history.

[Righ]

I occasionally take my cars for a fast spin on a race track but even there don't push them much in order to avoid causing mechanical damage.

It is better to pay expert mechanics to maintain and repair your car than to attend court. I pushed my TVRs hard on track, even having instructors teach me how to reach the limits. Your 911 is a high performance vehicle designed to be driven hard. Go blow the cobwebs out of it.

[sinij]

If it was brand new or I was first owner - sure. I can't bring to punish it after painstakingly restoring it to pristine condition.

As to court - its easy to assume you are in the right and all you need is to show up and tell your story to the judge. Most ticket proceedings judges are highly annoyed when you don't take prosecutor's deal and actually spend court time trying to prove something instead of making guilty claim to slightly reduced infraction. Also if cop show up his word is considered expert witness testimony, meaning judge will choose to believe cop over your word.

[CmdrSlack]

But what about stuff like seized money under the US drug laws? All they need to do is SUSPECT you, no proof needed, and your money/car/whatever is history.

Good thing that's not true, because that would suck. All of the federal criminal forfeiture (including the sections relating to drugs) require conviction. There is also civil forfeiture, but even that requires that the stuff be traceable to the commission of or profits from a crime.

I know it's hip to believe that the government is teh debul and all, but in this case, it's just not true. The government isn't going around seizing people's shit willy-nilly because they "think" you did something wrong.

[bhodi]

Good thing that's not true, because that would suck. All of the federal criminal forfeiture (including the sections relating to drugs) require conviction. There is also civil forfeiture, but even that requires that the stuff be traceable to the commission of or profits from a crime.

O RLY? Has to be traceable? No, just has to be suspect.

In many cases, people like Rudy Ramirez have been suspected of involvement in drug trafficking for no more reason than its being "unusual" in this day and age to possess a thick wad of cash. Take the example of Willie Jones, a landscape architect who was carrying $9,600 through the Nashville airport on his way to buy shrubbery. Or the case of physician Richard Lowe who--distrustful of banks, and with vivid memories of the Great Depression--stockpiled $317,000 in his home in Alabama before finally depositing it in a bank, leading the government to confiscate a full $2.5 million of his life savings for this suspicious behavior.

[CmdrSlack]

Good thing that's not true, because that would suck. All of the federal criminal forfeiture (including the sections relating to drugs) require conviction. There is also civil forfeiture, but even that requires that the stuff be traceable to the commission of or profits from a crime.

O RLY? Has to be traceable? No, just has to be suspect.

In many cases, people like Rudy Ramirez have been suspected of involvement in drug trafficking for no more reason than its being "unusual" in this day and age to possess a thick wad of cash. Take the example of Willie Jones, a landscape architect who was carrying $9,600 through the Nashville airport on his way to buy shrubbery. Or the case of physician Richard Lowe who--distrustful of banks, and with vivid memories of the Great Depression--stockpiled $317,000 in his home in Alabama before finally depositing it in a bank, leading the government to confiscate a full $2.5 million of his life savings for this suspicious behavior.

Whatever. Pointing to failings of the system doesn't define the system. It points out, wait for it, where the system needs to be fixed. Your example of civil forfeiture incident to lawful arrests (which is a broad category and includes traffic stops) demonstrates a failing in the system, not the system working as intended. ETA -- The civil forefeiture statute specifically states that the stuff seized must be traceable to or derived from the illegal activity. Painting it as "ZOMG THE COPS JUST TAKE YOUR SHIT WHENEVER THEY WANT" is dishonest at best. Moreover, it doesn't make criminal forefeiture the same thing. What it does do is point out that sometimes the system doesn't work.

How things are supposed to work is where I was coming from. Feel free to post more links to stories of the system failing, but don't try to make it sound like that's how the system is intended to work/always works.

[Sky]

Honestly, I can't help but have the 'zomg the gubmint is takin' our stuffs!' feeling...but I haven't seen it borne out in reality. I've known a lot of shady characters in my time (back when I was a shady character!), and I've never seen a forfeiture. Last year a friend got busted growing in his backyard (goddamned nosy neighbors plus stinky plants), but he didn't lose the house or anything.

Is there some felony component, perhaps?

[Murgos]

My little brother got busted more than once with drugs in his car which never required more than going down to the impound lot and coughing up some dough to get it out.  They talk a mean game but that's all it is, talk.  If you buy into it and don't fight well then yeah, they keep your shit.

The legal proceedings of my brother and his gang of knuckleheads is enough to disprove pretty much every 'The MAN is out to get ya!" theory I've ever heard.  Any trouble they got was fully deserved.

[CmdrSlack]

Honestly, I can't help but have the 'zomg the gubmint is takin' our stuffs!' feeling...but I haven't seen it borne out in reality. I've known a lot of shady characters in my time (back when I was a shady character!), and I've never seen a forfeiture. Last year a friend got busted growing in his backyard (goddamned nosy neighbors plus stinky plants), but he didn't lose the house or anything.

Is there some felony component, perhaps?

Yep.  The statute for civil forefeiture is a bit convoluted, because it just refers to all of the section numbers that are subject to the forefeiture stuff. Generally, those crimes are felonies. Also, there's state forefeiture statutes that operate differently. Most people focus on the federal ones because, well, it's easier to generalize a system that operates nationwide than to do an in-depth study of the various and sundry state statutes.

Also, most of the forfeiture stuff is not required, just discretionary.