The draw of WoW....

[Kludge]

What is it that draws you to WoW? I can't figure it out! I first tried WoW when it was released getting bored of EQ and not wanting to play EQ2 yet. It was merely ok, the graphics were slightly better then the aging EQ, quests were similar ("Kill 20 boar, kill John the Battlebot." Sometimes they'd try to trick you into thinking the quest was interesting by saying "Find 5 missives that the battlebots stole.") I often had to petition and wait hours until a GM would unstick me from waterfalls and the like. Combat was ok, the mark I, II, III etc. system seemed flat out lazy. I was told PvP was good, but I'm too much of a carebear to care.

Anyways... I didn't mind the game much, I was able to get a few friends to switch over from EQ for a couple months which was fun. Then though, I leveled my rogue up to around 40 after playing a couple months (with EQ still) and did some rogue mansion quest.... I don't remember the name but the area starts with a chest that says OPEN but kills you and then you have to build up a ridiculous amount of faction with the group until they give you a quest. I spent a couple days on it but then when it came time to talk to the NPC for my next quest, nothing. Nothing. Two days of faction grinding with the promise of further questing and the quest line was broken. Not very cool. I furrow my brow and decide I'll play it later when there aren't as many bugs and they fix the questline and switch to EQ2.

I play EQ2, happily leveling up a 70th conj and 70th templar. Once my guild had raided through most of EoF, I decided to try WoW again finally. First, I was excited to see all the servers and picked a relatively new one since I heard WoW had a lot of gold farmers. After just a few months of the server existing, around 40% of the toons were already level 50+ (according to Census) and I received gold spam minutes after creating my toon. Chat in Elwynn forest is relatively (to EQ2) dead and upon asking if they fixed the questline yet, I received no answer. No matter, I leveled up another rogue to around thirty and headed into Arathi Highlands where I asked again if questline was still broken, this time many responses came laughing at Blizz devs for not fixing it after years of being released. The graphics still haven't been improved (And are in fact, painful to look at, especially trees) and after joining one of the largest guilds on the server, I was disheartened to hear "That's what she said!" every 3-4 lines of text =/.

I spent most of my time playing the market to further twink my toon, which I admit, was quite fun. I had three gold farmers on my friends list who sold me many goodies at 1/4 of what I sold em for, usually asking me "Is you want buy an A Enigma Robes?" I basically bought a major 18+ guild of 150 members (Because the server was new [and filled with kiddies], no guild was able to capitalize on the hordes of unguilded adults) by paying for their tabard and "donating" some epic items to guild bank. I was quickly promoted to officer, then senior officer. My toon was fifty with some of the best gear he could have and then I thought..... I could be playing EQ2 right now. I quit and started playing EQ2 again, just like that (I donated around 120 gold to guild after logging in a week later to get what was left of AH items).

I understand even 7-8 year old computers can run the game and that it isn't hard to level to 70 in a couple months, but.... why would you want to?

[Fabricated]

No, we're not signing up for any k-rad SoE station passes, thanks.

[WindupAtheist]

I can understand shrugging at WoW if you're an anti-diku kook like me who'll probably be playing UO until the heat-death of the universe, but an Everquest guy?  What's even the difference?

[Megrim]

No, we're not signing up for any k-rad SoE station passes, thanks.

That's what she said!

[Kail]

I understand even 7-8 year old computers can run the game and that it isn't hard to level to 70 in a couple months, but.... why would you want to?

WoW, in my experience, is very polished and very stable in ways that other MMOs aren't.  The rogue quest is kind of a disappointment, but it's one of the worse examples in the game, rather than being typical.  And even then, it's not so much broken (the quest does get completed) as it just ends abruptly (and nowadays, it doesn't take more than a half hour or so to finish that last bit).  If your main complaint against WoW is that one quest line (out of a few thousand) isn't finished, then that doesn't seem too bad, especially compared to the competition.

In terms of graphics, that's very very subjective.  I personally would rather see more games take a more stylized look, like WoW, than try (and fail) to build yet another generic, super realistic looking world, but either position is really just personal preference.

And you're not making a really solid point when you say that you basically bought your way to the top of a clueless guild of idiots and were then shocked to find they didn't have a whole lot of intelligent comments to make.  Or that you were close buddies with a bunch of gold farmers, but were surprised to note that they weren't great english speakers.  Is that really a problem with WoW?

Personally, I play it because it seems more complete and more user friendly than any other MMO I've played.  I also like the setting; the graphics, the writing, the atmosphere, all that.  If some other game wants to pull me away from WoW, it's not going to be EQ; it's going to have to be something that tries to do something different than WoW.  Switching from WoW to EQ would be like switching from Coke to Pepsi.

[Paelos]

Don't answer the question, this is a mole account. They should at least try harder.

Hey EQ mole, fuck you. Die in a poopsock fire.

[pxib]

I understand even 7-8 year old computers can run the game and that it isn't hard to level to 70 in a couple months, but.... why would you want to?

Ten year old computers. My father plays it on the tempermental 800 MhZ Pentium III that I bought in 1998, and gave to him when I bought my new computer a few years back. He's basically playing with the bare bones graphics, but he can walk around the Burning Crusade just fine with considerably less RAM than they list in their recommended specs.

He loves the game because it's the first and only MMOG he's ever played.

I think a substantial percentage of WoW's players are in the same boat.

[Merusk]

I think a substantial percentage of WoW's players are in the same boat.

Yes.  But trying to explain that to traditional PC gamers just gets you blank looks.  They have trouble comprehending folks on machines 4-5 years old as it is.  Most Devs obviously have an even larger problem.. as they seem to expect users to upgrade their machines just for their game.  Yeah, that may have happened in the 90's when the majority was geeks and tech-sector folks.. nowadays, not so much.

[Arrrgh]

Wow gives me points for killing elves.

[raydeen]

For me it's because the world feels 'real'. Not comparing it to the real world, but it's a world that's cohesive and well thought out. Yes, it's generic fantasy story book stuff but it's got the magic in it that you'd expect to find in such a world. It's a world with personality. Quests are pretty mundane but as I've been playing, WoW is pretty much the first game (besides CoX) that really focuses on quests. Everquest is pretty much an oxymoron. I've been playing it for more than 8 years and it wasn't until WoW that Everquest really began to emphasize the 'quest' or at least make it a desirable action for the player. Back in the day, pretty much everyone logged on and just found a group in whatever exp hot area there was and grinded and grinded and grinded some more to get mats or levels or plat or whatever they wanted or needed. There was almost no questing. WoW made questing important with rewards for doing the quest. CoX does a good job of this as well (perhaps better). I want to go back to EQ but it feels so shallow now. And after what they did to Freeport....

[Trippy]

I want to go back to EQ but it feels so shallow now. And after what they did to Freeport....

What did they do to Freeport?

[raydeen]

I want to go back to EQ but it feels so shallow now. And after what they did to Freeport....

What did they do to Freeport?

They totally revamped it. And by revamped I mean fucked. They turned it into a souless mess.

[Trippy]

I want to go back to EQ but it feels so shallow now. And after what they did to Freeport....

What did they do to Freeport?

They totally revamped it. And by revamped I mean fucked. They turned it into a souless mess.

Sounds like some of the original EQ II world builders got transferred over to EQ.

[Kludge]

I want to go back to EQ but it feels so shallow now. And after what they did to Freeport....

What did they do to Freeport?

They totally revamped it. And by revamped I mean fucked. They turned it into a souless mess.

Sounds like some of the original EQ II world builders got transferred over to EQ.

No, you can't even imagine how badly they slopped together FP. Basically, some black-looking walls with some buildings randomly plopped around. And, of course, the vendors think the buildings are so ugly, they now line up outside showing off recycled merchant graphics

[Valmorian]

I understand even 7-8 year old computers can run the game and that it isn't hard to level to 70 in a couple months, but.... why would you want to?

I found WoW fun, and EQ2 seemed dull as dishwater and incredibly amateurish by comparison.  That's why.

I DO think it's cute that you cite one of the VERY few quests in WoW that are broken to suggest that many of them are.

[Kludge]

It's been broken since release =/ I don't recall saying there are many broken quests, but my experience with that one was particularly annoying, a problem I didn't have in EQ2, though I'm sure there are many broken quests somewhere. Everyone has a personal bias based on their experiences, of course, I at least back my claims up >.>

[Fabricated]

It's been broken since release =/ I don't recall saying there are many broken quests, but my experience with that one was particularly annoying, a problem I didn't have in EQ2, though I'm sure there are many broken quests somewhere. Everyone has a personal bias based on their experiences, of course, I at least back my claims up >.>

So because there are broken quests somewhere maybe...we should go play EQ2?

[Kludge]

a problem I didn't have in EQ2, though I'm sure there are many broken quests somewhere.

<.< Reading FTL

[Sogrinaugh]

It's been broken since release =/ I don't recall saying there are many broken quests, but my experience with that one was particularly annoying, a problem I didn't have in EQ2, though I'm sure there are many broken quests somewhere. Everyone has a personal bias based on their experiences, of course, I at least back my claims up >.>

Dude you are talking about like not even a fucking fraction of a goddamn percent of content here.  When BC was released i can recall ONE QUEST that was broken (the tomb thingy in nagrand), and yes its annoying but one quest out of several hundred?  So thats like 0.3% of broken content?  Blizzard is so far above industry standard on this particular issue (functional content at release) that i can't even believe you'd bother to attack WoW based on what is probably the most unassailable characteristic of the game.  Whine about Raid or Die, Tigole's Phallus, or something else that keeps you awake at night.

As to the actual topic of your post, i'd say its the game world itself.  Blizzard is very good at appealing to the geek heart, i very much like the design of the game world.  Their is just so much stuff that hasn't gotten old for me even after like 3 years.  Whomever does the zone design for blizzard is a creative genius imo.

The other thing is the UI i guess.  I dont care how cool your game is, if i have to "work" to interact with it i hate it and i hate you for designing it that way.  Blizzard is pretty good at laying out controls in a manner that makes you put up with a minimum of bullshit to play the game.

Graphics - i care 2 shits about polygon counts.  Aesthetics are to personal of an issue to bother argueing.

Class design is the other big thing.  I always wish they had this or that ability but of the 4 classes i have played (mage, priest, shaman, lock) each is alot of fun, though some more or less so depending on mood and aspect of the game.  Mage probably comes up shortest, but only because im an AD&D geek and my expectations of utility are probably both too high and uncodable.

[Merusk]

Ok, some more reasons I don't play EQ2 vs WoW:

I found EQ2 to be 'unresponsive.'   It plays too much on the oldschool mechanics of "hit the button, wait out the cast, THEN the ability fires."   I prefer some instant gratification in my combat... even if it's seeing the silly cast bar for caster.  The lack of ability animations also lead to this perception.  

Combat is way too slow.   Fighting one mob at level 8 took as long as fighting two at 70 in WoW.   The single "solo" mob was as long a fight as some instance elite fights in WoW.  I'm not in this for a fucking lifestyle, it's a hobby.  The plodding pace puts me to sleep.

It's ugly.  No, really, it's fucking horrible.  The Fae stuff was nice when I played the trial a few weeks ago, but over-all you still have the old content and it's still ugly as sin.  Their armor textures aren't doing them any favors and the armor models are horrible.  That's before we even start talking about the PC models.  Unibody FTL.   Even EQ1 had more visual appeal than the 'new gen' game. (Miss my Half Elf and Dark Elf)

Flying Mounts:  Recent, yes, but still a big enough draw to me to give WoW another nod here. Flying is just fuckig fun.  So much so that I WISH they would go back and fix the old zones so that flying there wasn't the problem it would be.  (i.e. revealing the forced perspectives and fake backdrops to 'nothing')

Multiple experiences:  Playing one class vs another is a different experience in each game.  Shadowknights are different from Wardens as Hunters are different from Rogues.  However, only in one game can I experience both classes fully. Hell if I've got the time I can play 3-4 classes fully in WoW instead of 2 in EQ2.

[Valmorian]

It's been broken since release =/ I don't recall saying there are many broken quests, but my experience with that one was particularly annoying, a problem I didn't have in EQ2, though I'm sure there are many broken quests somewhere. Everyone has a personal bias based on their experiences, of course, I at least back my claims up >.>

So because you found a single broken quest, that's "backing up your claims"?  What claim would that be?  That finding a single broken quest is annoying?  Sure it's annoying.  You yourself point out that there's probably many broken quests in EQ2.  Clearly you're shooting your own argument in the foot here.

You consider the annoyance of a single broken quest a reason to quit WoW.  I consider the following reasons for not playing EQ2:
- It's ugly
- It takes too long to kill things in it.
- The abilities of the classes I've played seemed completely haphazard.
- The entire character creation process felt like everything had been taken apart and rebuilt. (Which, I understand, it has).
- The world is so bland and generic that I couldn't bring myself to care what was outside the main cities.
- Even if I wanted to GO outside said cities, I couldn't go very far before I'd be killed instantly. (I've been able to explore high level areas at a moderate level in WoW with every class I've played)

Seriously, EQ2 is like the amateur who is trying SO HARD to paint as well as his brother the artist, but just hasn't got the skill to pull it off.

[Morfiend]

I think when it comes down to it, besides all the above listed shit, its the Blizzard humor that really seperates the game. The little bits of humor that Blizzard throws in are fantastic.

Also, graphics. I love WoWs cartoony graphics. EQ2 had the most bland and boring graphics when I played. I did hear they made the high end loot look a little better, but when I am escaping to a fantasy world, I like big glowing swords, and shoulderpads with skulls impaled on spikes. I like that I can ride a dragon. I like that I have a Murlock pet that does the "New York, New York" dance. I like that PVP has very little consequence. I like that death penalties are light.

I could go on, but whats the point. Ether you like it or you dont. You dont, so dont play it.

[HaemishM]

EQ2 is a decent game, but suffers from being an EQ descendent. Slower combat, ability to take on fewer enemies, more group-centric (though this has changed since release and even since I played) and a very uneven graphic standard. Some stuff looks great, others look very plastic and stiff. Landscapes are gorgeous, but many of the character models just don't work well.

So the OP doesn't dig WoW? Great, PLAY WHAT YOU LIKE. Don't post barely coherent moley posts on a message board as your first post.

[WayAbvPar]

Don't post barely coherent moley posts on a message board as your first post.

Exactly! Wait until you have thousands of posts and then whore yourself out to the highest bidder.



ATTN- MMOG Publishers- THIS SPACE FOR RENT

[Phred]

Hmm. I could go for a tasty burger about now.

Just wondering though, when did EQ 1 get kill 20 wolves quests? Not in the 5 years I played it.
Except the quests in LDoN and they were barely quests.

[Zetor]

(snip)

The others have pretty much covered why I like WOW and dislike EQ2. In the end, WOW was fun, EQ2 wasn't.. so I stopped playing EQ2 and went back to WOW. What a concept!

Your Ravenholdt example is pretty much one out of 2-3 "dead end" grinds in the game, so using it as a measuring stick is hardly fair... especially when you consider that there are many thousands of quests out there, almost all of them working fine.
I'm no WOWboi (the game has plenty of faults and I will likely stop playing it when a better game comes around), but it's definitely not a bad diku, especially compared to EQ2.

(there's also something to be said for making solo play viable for those of us living in the "wrong" timezones)


-- Z.

[Calantus]

I don't even get the Ravenholdt quest bitching. On my rogue I grinded to friendly (which was like 2-3 quests worth of killing, aka. nothing) to complete that quest and then went on with my life when the chain ended there.

[Merusk]

I don't even get the Ravenholdt quest bitching. On my rogue I grinded to friendly (which was like 2-3 quests worth of killing, aka. nothing) to complete that quest and then went on with my life when the chain ended there.

Yeah, after he said that he'd 'spent a couple of days on it' I blew him off.  Anyone who's leveled a rogue and done the series knows it's a few hours, max.

[Zetor]

Yeah, I've done it on my rogue too back in 2005 or so... but I figured he was trying to hit exalted, hoping for a new quest or something. To my knowledge, the only four 'dead end' rep grinds were this one (Ravenholdt), the Dire Maul elves (only way to get rep after the 2 quests is by turning in class books... heh), the Ravasaur Trainers (no way to actually get faction with them, so no grind) and Wildhammer Dwarves (this was taken out with BC). So yeah, on second thought, he managed to single out the ONLY completely pointless rep-grind in the game.

... of course, pre-BC rep grinds in general were stupid, but some people liked to do them anyway (see also: Furbolg, Wintersaber Trainers, etc).

It was also funny when he referred to the 'chest that kills you when you open it'. It's a rogue quest for a reason. Kids these days! :P


-- Z.

[raydeen]

Hmm. I could go for a tasty burger about now.

Just wondering though, when did EQ 1 get kill 20 wolves quests? Not in the 5 years I played it.
Except the quests in LDoN and they were barely quests.

EQ was *close* to touching on what I feel would be the holy grail of quest giving. The quests were there, you just had to talk to the NPCs and based on the bracketed parts of their spiel, you'd get the quest or clues to what may be needed for the quest. What I would LOVE to see done is quest giving and NPC interaction similar to the old text adventures like Zork. But then we'd have to have a general playerbase that was actually literate. I can dream can't I?

[Ironwood]

It was also funny when he referred to the 'chest that kills you when you open it'. It's a rogue quest for a reason. Kids these days! :P


-- Z.

Indeed - it was this part that convinced me the thread needed shot in the head and what we actually had here is someone who didn't like WoW because they didn't like WoW.

Fascinating.  And over here we have the 'Paint Dry Marathon', followed by the 'Grass, it still grows' contest.

Yawn.

[Jayce]

the Dire Maul elves (only way to get rep after the 2 quests is by turning in class books... heh),

IIRC they took out this faction with BC, too.  It might have been a patch or two behind.

[Fabricated]

a problem I didn't have in EQ2, though I'm sure there are many broken quests somewhere.

<.< Reading FTL

I'd just like to say I stand by my point.

[AcidCat]

The graphics still haven't been improved (And are in fact, painful to look at, especially trees)

The graphics are painful? Give me a break. The look of the game is one of the most appealing things about it. You know what's painful to look at? Uninspired generic drab fantasy crap like EQ2 or Vanguard. WoW has style, and it's a consistent style that is very pleasing IMO. Colorful , varied, detailed, and with some humor.

And while it runs fine on old computers, it also looks stunning on new ones. After playing for 2+ years at 1024x758 on my old 19" CRT, the game is just a wonder to look at in 1920x1200 on my new 24" widescreen.

[Engels]

Here again with the Wow style issue. Ok, folks, its this simple; if you love Terry Pratchet, you're probably going to find WoW just great. The world is not meant to be taken seriously; its not meant to replicate a 'real' fantasy experience, ala RR Martin. If you want 'realism', you'll have to hold out for Conan, or go back to DAoC, Vanguard or EQ or some such.