Patch Notes for June 13

[CmdrSlack]

There's a ton, so I'm not going to do the multi-post repost.

The link to part one is here.

You can also see the highlights here.

There's loads of stuff -- most notably the crafting changes, which I am not too lazy to reproduce.

Crafting

    * General
          o Novice & Expert cook NPCs no longer sell: Blueberries, Cabbage, Taters, Green Onions, Broccoli, Strawberries, Blackberries, and Raspberries.
          o Fixed Farming and Cooking instructions in "A Yeoman's Guide" crafting guide.
          o Improved the descriptions for all seven crafting guides.
          o Fixed numerous typos, grammatical errors, and incorrect instructions in the seven crafting guides.
          o Updated the message shown in the Crafting UI for when the player has not yet taken a crafting vocation. The message now directs players to seek out a Master or Mistress of Apprentices.
          o Fixed an issue where several professions did not unlock tier 5 mastery after completion of tier 5 proficiency.
          o Updated art for many, many crafted weapons!
          o Revised the minimum level requirements for many crafted weapons, shields, jewellery, and armour pieces. In general, the minimum level requirements for these items have been decreased.
          o Fixed quality issues with "Ancient Steel Mining Pick."
          o Capitalized the words "Jeweller" and "Tailor" in all of the titles for these two crafting professions.
          o Cleaned up item category sorting in auctions for all crafting components, resources, and ingredients.
          o Fixed recipe ingredients listed for "Padded Armour" in the following vocation introduction letters: Armourer, Explorer, and Yeoman.
          o Corrected information in the crafting guide, "A Tinker's Guide."
          o Corrected minor typos in the names of some crafting components.
          o Fixed a typo in the Armsman vocation crafting guide.
          o Quest items produced by quest recipes can no longer be sold, auctioned, or traded. In addition, destroying these quest items will also cause the quest to be abandoned.
          o Added more descriptive descriptions to all crafting recipe scrolls! Profession name, profession difficulty, and recipe type (where applicable) are now given in each recipe scroll's description.
          o All critical crafting tools are now know prefixed with the title "Superior," to easily distinguish them from normal crafting tools.
          o Fixed meta-tags for many crafting tools. Messages sent to the player regarding the tools should now use proper grammar.
          o Craft tool durability has been reduced slightly and repair cost adjusted so you never pay more to repair it than its value.
          o Removed the chance of getting monster trophies from crafting consignments and increased the amount of resources.
          o Crafting components & ingredients now use a green background in the icon.
          o Increased the bonuses on Polished Westernesse Dagger, Polished Westernesse Mace, Polished Westernesse Halberd, Mirrored Westernesse Sword, Mirrored Westernesse Greatsword, Mirrored Westernesse Axe, Mirrored Westernesse Headman's Axe, Mirrored Westernesse Halberd
          o Fixed a few cases where crafted halberds were not getting the correct amount of bonuses applied to them. These halberds now grant larger bonuses to might or vitality.
          o Forged Dwarf-craft Axe and Tempered Dwarf-craft Axe now give a bonus to in-combat power regeneration instead of Might so they no longer conflict with the weapons learned from the Master of Apprentices.
          o Solid Light Bronze Buckler now has the stats of a rare item.
          o Quests that allow you to progress to higher crafting tiers will now always have a gold ring, no matter what adventuring level you have reached. Other crafting quests will use the normal rules for quest icons.
          o Level 45 Class Quest Trophies for the third wave of the "Implements" and "Articles" quests are no longer Bind On Pickup.
          o Fixed an issue with the Crafting Solutions quests where the quest would fail to update.
          o Each of the "Part 3" crafting quests should now bring up the appropriate "superior facility" quest when completed.
          o When crafting multiple items, you will see the current and total number in the progress bar.
          o When crafting multiple items, the animation will now stay between creations.
          o Names of items in craft panel are now colored correctly according to rarity.
          o Heavy branches and Rich ore deposits can now be found in the world. These uncommon resource nodes are higher yield than normal resource nodes, giving a bit more variety to their respective harvesting systems.
          o Fixed an issue that was preventing players from using Superior Forges (right-click) to open their craft UI.
          o Rich Ore Deposits and Heavy Branches can now be found rarely on the landscape. These resources are less common but yield greater returns than their normal counterparts.
          o For many months (well... one month) crafters have scratched their heads over the location of the mysterious beast known as Sagrurz. Puzzle no longer! Sagrurz can now rarely be found on the landscape (though where he can be found we'll leave up to you to discover )
          o The Superior Workbench that was hanging out beneath the ground at the farms north of Hobbiton has been removed.
          o Crafting Quests should follow the quest consideration levels just like all other quests. Quests that advance your profession will always show a gold ring now.
          o Skinner Grubb, for the consignment quests, no longer has the title Leather Worker. We realized that this could be a bit confusing to all the real Leather Workers out there.

    * Farming
          o The farming vocation has been updated to allow the possibility of small profits when selling finished products back to a vendor. Only selling products created from fair plants will turn a profit, depending on the amount generated by the field. There is no profit in selling poor plants to vendors, yet they can be converted back into seeds.
          o Some pipe-weed seeds are now available to players via loot drops.
          o Added recipes for brewing beer!
          o Cooking and Farming vendors now sell components/recipes required for brewing beer.
          o Lowered the cost of seeds used by farmers to produce items used by cooks.
          o All pipe-weed varieties now have a max stacking size of 50.
          o Oats can now be grown by farmers, which can be used by cooks to make treats for the Lore-Master's bear-friend. Farmers should visit their local Novice Farmer for oat recipes and seeds, while cooks should seek out Novice Cooks to pick up a new recipe and craft ingredient. More powerful Bear Treat recipes can also be found elsewhere!
          o Pipe-weed seed recipes that award seeds which cannot be purchased from vendors will produce a total of two seeds per recipe execution.
          o Adjusted the output of some pipe-weed seed recipes to produce three seeds instead of two.
          o Decreased the quantity of Fertilizer, Earth of Erebor, and seeds needed to create all pipeweed and vegetable "field" recipes.
          o All tier 4 and 5 farming recipes that previously required superior workbench facilities now require normal workbench facilities.
          o Crop tracking has arrived again for the first time! Farmers can now toggle the 'Track Crops' skill, just like the 'Track Wood' and 'Track Mines' skills. Tracking crops will allow all landscape crop spawns to appear on your minimap.
          o Fixed the plural names for "Cauliflower Seed," "Bushel of Fair Cauliflower," and "Bushel of Poor Cauliflower" incorrectly showing up as "Broccoli."
    * Scholar
    *
          o Scholar vendors sell new ingredient items used in the making of Morale & Power regeneration potions.
          o Increased production quantities for Fire and Light Oil recipes
          o Increased production quantities for Beartraps, Multi-Traps, Shield Spikes, Caltrops, and Stun Dust.
          o Changed the ingredients used in two Scholar quest recipes, "Ballad of Aiglos" and "Chant of the Stalwart." They should now be using ingredients appropriate to the difficulty of the recipe.
          o Fixed an issue where the tier 3, 4, and 5 recipes for power and morale potions were producing the wrong items when executed (Morale potion recipes were producing power potions, and vice-versa).
          o Scholar potion recipes now have the chance to produce an improved potion when a critical result is achieved. Previously, two regular potions were produced on a critical success.
          o Changed the ingredients for all scholar power and morale potion recipes, reducing the focus on rare-drop scholar components and shifting that focus more over to store-bought ingredients.
          o Novice scholars now sell the "Hand-Bound Journal" item needed for some journeyman scholar recipes.
          o New scholar recipes have been added! Lore scroll recipes for Cooking, Jeweller, and Scholar have all been added to the Scholar profession. These recipes are automatically granted to you.
    * Cooking
          o Lowered prices of all cooking ingredients.
          o Changed the singular name of "Salt" to "Bag of Salt."
          o Rebalanced the required ingredient quantities for many cooking recipes. For the majority of recipes, the number of required ingredients has been reduced.
          o Fixed issues with effects getting double-listed on tooltips for the following items: Hornblower's Pie, Superior Hornblower's Pie, Stuffed Cabbage, and Superior Stuffed Cabbage
          o New recipes for lute strings have been added to Cooking! Cooks may now create lute strings for Minstrels that temporarily reduce threat generated when healing.
          o The "Serene Stew" recipe (a tier 2 recipe) was previously using a crafted tier 3 ingredient. The required ingredients have been changed to replace the crafted tier 3 ingredient with a crafted tier 2 ingredient.
          o The "Serene Stew" recipe (a tier 2 recipe) was previously using a crafted tier 3 ingredient. The required ingredients have been changed to replace the crafted tier 3 ingredient with a crafted tier 2 ingredient.
          o Fixed a typo in the plural name of "Complete Hobbit Breakfast."
          o Fixed a typo in the description of "Juicy Blackberries."
          o "A Taste of Skill, Part Two" is completeable again, after the
            great Hearty Stock Shortage of 3018. Enterprising hobbits have come up with new ingredients for the recipe, and all agree that the new stew is both stewier and more serene.
    * Weaponsmith:
          o Two tier 3 crafted weapons, "Bright Steel Dagger" and "Shining Steel Dagger," have been changed into granting an increase to vitality instead of agility. Other tier 3 daggers give an increase to agility.
          o Fixed issues with some Forged Dwarf-Craft weapon recipes requiring the wrong type of forge.
          o Fixed issue with some Polished Westernesse weapon recipes requiring the wrong type of forge.
          o Fixed instructions in "A Bounty of Blades" crafting guide.
    * Prospecting
          o Fixed a few instances where the name "Barrow-Iron" was displayed without the hyphen ("Barrow-Iron Deposits" and "Rich Barrow-Iron Deposits").
          o Fixed an issue with the "Refine Elven-steel" recipe using the
            incorrect type of ingot. This recipe now uses Ancient Iron ingots instead of Dwarf-steel ingots.
    * Jeweller
          o Cleaned up naming issues with both the normal and critical versions of the Striking and Vanquishing Runes.
          o Jewellers are now directed to find a workbench instead of a study.
          o Jewellers should now be able to receive Superior Workbench access.
    * Tailoring
          o Fixed the display names of some Tailoring recipe scrolls.
          o Fixed the decription for crafting component Leather Guard.
          o Tailors now sell recipes for crafting cloaks.
    * Metalworking:
          o Increased the level requirements for all tier 2 metalworking crafted heavy armour sets:
                + "Iron" armour set: Increased level requirement to 18 (was 15).
                + "Thick Iron" armour set: Increased level requirement to 18 (was 15).
                + "Crafted" armour set: Increased level requirement to 21 (was 19).
                + "Well-Crafted" armour set: Increased level requirement to 21 (was 19).
                + "Heavy Iron" armour set: Increased level requirement to 18 (was 15).
                + "Hardened Iron" armour set: Increased level requirement to 18 (was 15).
                + "Forge-Crafted" armour set: Increased level requirement to 21 (was 19).
                + "Temper-Crafted" armour set: Increased level requirement to 21 (was 19).
                + Note: This change may cause some armour pieces currently equipped to be removed to the player's inventory if they are no longer high enough level to wear the armour.
    * Woodworking
          o The tier 2 "Stout Ash" weapons were using the wrong quality level. This is now fixed.

[shiznitz]

Highlights links is, umm, wrong or a really bad joke.

[Bandit]

Highlights links is, umm, wrong or a really bad joke.

Hehehe, RICKROLLED!

[cmlancas]

Highlights links is, umm, wrong or a really bad joke.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rickrolled

The more I read the EVE BoB/Goon thing (as a source of entertainment, I never played EVE), the more I hate SA and their respective forums. Apparently that's where this comes from.

SA makes me angry. 

[CmdrSlack]

Sorry 'bout that. It was during my AM coffee. My brain exhibits bad judgment during that period. However, I do think the song is somehow eerily related to patch notes. Somehow.

[Bandit]

Seriously though, a pretty comprehensive patch.  One question arose from me reading the notes (and not really going to the forums ever)....are Champions that underpowered at higher levels that they needed so much work and abilities as compared to other classes? I hear more people bitching here about Loremasters, not champs.

[CmdrSlack]

Everyone on the official forums expected a champion nerf.  The fact that they got love was a bit odd.

[cmlancas]

I just want to know why champions do way more damage than my burglar. Even if I spam all of my abilities including conjunctions and criticals, I feel like I'm sucky as far as that goes. All I'm good for is a riddle.

[gravdiggr]

Actually, most classes don't have skills after 40 (if you exclude the skills you get from quests). If i understand correctly, champions were just the first class to get a pass at to populate skills after 40.

The biggest game changer fix in this patch is the fact that Fate is now a useful stat.
First of all, 1 fate = 1 will if the fight lasts more than 3 minutes.
On top of that, fate adds to the tactical crit (spell crit) both in terms of crit chance (verified) and amount of crit (read on a board, don't kill me if it's false).
Basically, it looks like 55 fate = 1.0 in combat mana regen which changes a lot of things in term of equipment power.

p.s.: 1 thing that really pisses me off with regard to new mmo is the fact that quest rewards are a 1shot deal. We should be able to switch the item afterward in case something like this happens. The fact that we have almost no bank space prevents me from keeping multiple suits. This wouldn't be a problem if crafted gear was actually as good as quest rewards, but it isn't the case. They also changed a lot of stats on items with this patch, which means that some of the quest rewards we took arent going to be optimal anymore.

[cmlancas]

Really? I think crafted rewards are pretty damn nice, if you ask me. My burglar is currently outfitted in 75% crafted leather gear.

Of course, I'm level 20, but still.

[gravdiggr]

I just want to know why champions do way more damage than my burglar. Even if I spam all of my abilities including conjunctions and criticals, I feel like I'm sucky as far as that goes. All I'm good for is a riddle.

In terms of role, the champion only brings dps to the table (can semi tank, but you'd have to be desperate to bring a champion for anything else than dps). The champion rules AE damage. The hunter rules single target dps.
The burglar is the best debuffer in game + he can start conjunctions. That in itself is a reason enough why you shouldn't get anywhere close to the amount of dps a champion does.

I think a lot of people are confused because rogues are usually the melee dps in game. In LOTRO, burglar is the main debuffer.

[gravdiggr]

Really? I think crafted rewards are pretty damn nice, if you ask me. My burglar is currently outfitted in 75% crafted leather gear.

Of course, I'm level 20, but still.

Yeah crafting reward are good until tier 3. At tier 3-4, the quest rewards are always better than the crafted crap (especially weapons).
I'm not at 50, so i don't know about tier 5 yet.

[cmlancas]

I just want to know why champions do way more damage than my burglar. Even if I spam all of my abilities including conjunctions and criticals, I feel like I'm sucky as far as that goes. All I'm good for is a riddle.

In terms of role, the champion only brings dps to the table (can semi tank, but you'd have to be desperate to bring a champion for anything else than dps). The champion rules AE damage. The hunter rules single target dps.
The burglar is the best debuffer in game + he can start conjunctions. That in itself is a reason enough why you shouldn't get anywhere close to the amount of dps a champion does.

I think a lot of people are confused because rogues are usually the melee dps in game. In LOTRO, burglar is the main debuffer.

Yes, I know I'm the main debuff class, but I feel like I'm doing as much damage as the tank. Plus, my debuffs more or less suck at level 20, and all I'm good for is one conjunction every five minutes and a CC spell. I just feel like I should be contributing more.

[CmdrSlack]

Dust in the eyes is a great debuff....so is the earlier trick the name of which escapes me.  Heck, once you have those two, you can pretty much hit the first trick, misch. glee, then dust in the eyes...and that has such a fast refresh that you can apply it to adds as well.

[cmlancas]

Yeah, but Disable (the other one that escapes you) will eventually become useless when I equip the class trait that makes dust in the eyes AoE.


Oh well. I'm sure it improves later on, I just feel useless by comparison in groups.

[CmdrSlack]

Yeah, but Disable (the other one that escapes you) will eventually become useless when I equip the class trait that makes dust in the eyes AoE.


Oh well. I'm sure it improves later on, I just feel useless by comparison in groups.

Hey, when I play my hunter, I feel useless because the champs chew through stuff so fast that I rarely get off more than a few shots.

And, as a great starter for Mischevious glee, disable will always be a good one to have, even once dust goes AoE.

[cmlancas]

Yeah, but Disable (the other one that escapes you) will eventually become useless when I equip the class trait that makes dust in the eyes AoE.


Oh well. I'm sure it improves later on, I just feel useless by comparison in groups.

Hey, when I play my hunter, I feel useless because the champs chew through stuff so fast that I rarely get off more than a few shots.

And, as a great starter for Mischievous glee, disable will always be a good one to have, even once dust goes AoE.

Aye, I just feel like I am blowing through stuff so quickly in groups that mischievous glee is almost useless. I do see your point though.

[Johny Cee]

I just want to know why champions do way more damage than my burglar. Even if I spam all of my abilities including conjunctions and criticals, I feel like I'm sucky as far as that goes. All I'm good for is a riddle.

In terms of role, the champion only brings dps to the table (can semi tank, but you'd have to be desperate to bring a champion for anything else than dps). The champion rules AE damage. The hunter rules single target dps.
The burglar is the best debuffer in game + he can start conjunctions. That in itself is a reason enough why you shouldn't get anywhere close to the amount of dps a champion does.

I think a lot of people are confused because rogues are usually the melee dps in game. In LOTRO, burglar is the main debuffer.

Yes, I know I'm the main debuff class, but I feel like I'm doing as much damage as the tank. Plus, my debuffs more or less suck at level 20, and all I'm good for is one conjunction every five minutes and a CC spell. I just feel like I should be contributing more.

Conjunctions are underrated by most players.  Really,  any kind of serious encounter or set of encounters that doesn't give you time to med you really need a burglar.  Too many times in groups,  it becomes autoattack and hope you can outlast a boss mob or catch a lucky conjunction.  Burglar crowd control is very nice to have, as well.

Especially encounters like the boss mobs in Garth,  you will have to kill elite henchmen before focusing on the boss.  Usually,  everyone is running low on power by the time you get to the boss,  and the boss can still summon backup that needs to be dealt with.  Been saved a few times by lucky conjunctions or massive use of Celebrant pots,  but a burglar makes these encounters much, much, much easier.

I duo with a champ alot,  and I have noticed that the damage differential between a Cap and a Champ seems to go down as we level.  I used to never be able to pull aggro from the champ.  Now,  if I blow some abilities, I'm pulling aggro from him even with not having the "extra aggression" traits slotted.  My damage has seemed to catch up quite a bit as well,  even though I've been using the same weapon for about 4 or 5 levels now (Book 4, Ch. 2, two-handed hammer).

Not to mention,  at around level 40,  somehow the Cap is now the class that has no problem dealing with 2 or 3 yellows/ojs while the champ can get laid out by one oj (especially if they have stuns, disarms, or armor piercing effects).  My captain is pretty much unkillable by small numbers between the pet,  healing abilities, Last Stand (can't be killed ability), and the Man trait that gives you an instant 3000 morale.  

Champ damage is really dependent on the fervor related abilities,  which make them damage sponges.  They can't really tank and do damage at the same time.

[CmdrSlack]

I can't stand groups that don't get conjunctions.  The optimal CJ for a 6-man group is green, red, red, red, red, blue.  It's an AOE heal+damage+power.  People manage to fuck it up almost every single time.

I just don't get it.

[gravdiggr]

I can't stand groups that don't get conjunctions.  The optimal CJ for a 6-man group is green, red, red, red, red, blue.  It's an AOE heal+damage+power.  People manage to fuck it up almost every single time.

I just don't get it.

I can't stand most pickup groups for that reason. One thing that really bothers me is the fact that pug only seem to understand all red, when all yellow is easily twice the damage over 30 seconds. Of course, when you go for the more complex, the best one changes.

One thing i noticed (which might explain why people manage to fuck up conjunctions) is the fact that lag and/or server refresh can make series very hard to pull off. Quite often, in our group of 3, the guardian starts immediately with a blue. The champion doesn't see the blue on his screen until it's almost too late, which basically leaves me with the choice of waiting too long or messing up our blue-yellow-green combo. I have no idea what is causing the delay, but we never have the problem in some zones and always in others (Agamaur for example is horrible. we often end up going for 3 blues or 3 yellows to avoid the sync issue). I can just imagine trying to do cycles with 6 persons in that context.

[CmdrSlack]

My most successful CJ group was in the troll caves in N. Downs.  My guess is that since it's instanced, that's why, but that doesn't explain all of the Agamaur ass either.

[Riggswolfe]

All I know is that guardians seem pissed by the changes to wounds. We'll wait and see if it is as big a deal as they're saying. For those who don't know, wounds now shut off some defensive skill, like, you might get wounded and also lose the ability to block.

[Phred]

One thing i noticed (which might explain why people manage to fuck up conjunctions) is the fact that lag and/or server refresh can make series very hard to pull off. Quite often, in our group of 3, the guardian starts immediately with a blue. The champion doesn't see the blue on his screen until it's almost too late, which basically leaves me with the choice of waiting too long or messing up our blue-yellow-green combo. I have no idea what is causing the delay, but we never have the problem in some zones and always in others (Agamaur for example is horrible. we often end up going for 3 blues or 3 yellows to avoid the sync issue). I can just imagine trying to do cycles with 6 persons in that context.

Occasionally I've noticed some nasty button unresponsivness in the UI and others in group have complained about it too. Might be server lag though with the damn attack timers it's hard to tell, but I use an old IBM clicky keyboard and I know damn well when I hit a button only to look at the icon and notice it not flashing. Grr.

[pxib]

All I know is that guardians seem pissed by the changes to wounds. We'll wait and see if it is as big a deal as they're saying. For those who don't know, wounds now shut off some defensive skill, like, you might get wounded and also lose the ability to block.

So if Loremasters could cure wounds during battle then they'd be able to make Guardians happy and it would be a Loremaster buff in the same way that, say, nerfing paladins was a priest buff in WoW... right? Except they can only cure wounds outside of combat, by which time they've usually expired anyway.

[Johny Cee]

Conjunction wise....  usually go with 5 reds and blue, or 5 reds and green.  Seems the easiest decent combo to pull off,  since you only need one guy paying attention.


Gold will take a nosedive in price at the AH.  Lots and lots of gold nodes in the new zone,  with bunches of rich veins.  In an oddly appropriate turn of events,  been auditing a mine all week while trying to grind out my jeweller.

[Falconeer]

Not to mention,  at around level 40,  somehow the Cap is now the class that has no problem dealing with 2 or 3 yellows/ojs while the champ can get laid out by one oj (especially if they have stuns, disarms, or armor piercing effects).

Not sure I read your message the right way, but I am now a 46 champ and I spent all my last 5 levels mowing through 2 oranges at a time (Iron Crown Hillmen for example, full of disarm stuff). With no sweat.

It's at about lev 36, when I started completing red solo quests killing mobs 6 levels higher than me, basically untouchable by my friends, that I realized how overpowered the champion class is. We really need a nerf, we make other classes cry.

[Falconeer]

Mmmh

Added a new UI component to show your queued skill and the global delay that must expire before it will execute. The new component will not be shown by default, but you can hide or show it via the "Show Skill Queue Display" option in the UI Settings panel.

So being unable to remove the frustrating unresponsiveness of the combat, they decided to ride it and, at least, make it clearer. Meh.
I said it already elsewhere: skill queueing in MMORPGs is a huge step back. Hell, EverQuest 1 combat was more instantaneous and visceral. This is actually my only gripe about LotRO, unresponsive and higly enqueued combat.

[Hutch]

Buggy.

I lost my level 15 class quest. Had to revisit the npc to get it back. Had to go talk to the next npc, and he gave me a duplicate of the journal page he gave me the first time around. And when I tried to ditch the duplicate, the game warned me that the quest would be cancelled.

I lost my main story quest. I lost my crafting quests. No biggie, I just went back to the appropriate npc's to get them back.

(Note: by "lost", I mean that when I logged in after the patch, these quests had been dropped from my quest book).

Dunno why those quests were dropped, but the ones for bree-land and the lone-lands stuck around. Weird.

[Numtini]

I got a message that some quests were being moved or dropped or something, but didn't pay any attention to it. But I had the same thing, a few of the quests had disappeared and I was able to pick them up again.

I was in an instance group and the guardian didn't seem to have much trouble holding aggro. On the other hand, I don't really see why anyone would want to nerf the guardian in anyway. The damage isn't that great and it's heavily reliant on reactives. It seems particularly griping I think because of the fixes to champions, who were not only already powerful, but are also the main competition for tanking.

I wasn't the biggest fan of the Howard Dean Scream, but I really wish I had it back. Or had something. I relied a lot on the audio for timing attacks.

I don't know if it's a weather/season change or some adjustment to the engine, but everything looks far brighter and more colorful. And I like the changes in title displays, makes everything a lot more tidy.

[Riggswolfe]

All I know is that guardians seem pissed by the changes to wounds. We'll wait and see if it is as big a deal as they're saying. For those who don't know, wounds now shut off some defensive skill, like, you might get wounded and also lose the ability to block.

So if Loremasters could cure wounds during battle then they'd be able to make Guardians happy and it would be a Loremaster buff in the same way that, say, nerfing paladins was a priest buff in WoW... right? Except they can only cure wounds outside of combat, by which time they've usually expired anyway.

Well, alot of people are theorizing the change was made to make lore-masters more useful. I know I got hit by one of the debuffs last night, but since I'm playing a champion losing evade is no big deal. (since I nearly always have fervour on.)

[gravdiggr]

The patch totally trivialized the game from a minstrel point of view. Before, the only "skill" you needed to play the class was mana efficiency on long combat and aggro management. Mana efficiency is no longer an issue because the fate change actually doubled my in-combat mana regen. Before i had to be careful on boss fights and take decisions, now i chain cast away and get pretty surprised when my mana goes under 1300. Imagine, one of the bosses mana drained me and it got my mana down to 1100 instead of being a disaster.

So the only thing you have to watch for, as a healer (if you have the right equipment), is aggro. And honestly, we've been trained on this since EQ so it's not particularly difficult.

[Riggswolfe]

Well, the forums are exploding about the raid. It seems there is a class quest in the raid, that only drops the reward for one person. Many people are pissed and I'm fighting hard not to be. The general sentiment seems to be that repeating a raid for loot is ok if that is you thing but being forced to repeat it for a quest most definitely is not ok.

[Khaldun]

I can't stand groups that don't get conjunctions.  The optimal CJ for a 6-man group is green, red, red, red, red, blue.  It's an AOE heal+damage+power.  People manage to fuck it up almost every single time.

I just don't get it.

Yeah, neither me. I was in a PUG last night in Dol Dinen and the fucking CHIMPS in the group simply couldn't get this. One champ kept saying, why would you do anything but red?

Plus, of course, he was the idiot who kept hitting "need" for everything now that they've added a need/greed/pass looting system. Not because he was a looter, I think, but because he honestly didn't understand what it was even after people explained it to him about ten times.

LOTRO players seem to me to be a bit nicer than the misanthropic average in MMOGs but also a good bit dumber.

[Riggswolfe]

Yeah, neither me. I was in a PUG last night in Dol Dinen and the fucking CHIMPS in the group simply couldn't get this. One champ kept saying, why would you do anything but red?

Plus, of course, he was the idiot who kept hitting "need" for everything now that they've added a need/greed/pass looting system. Not because he was a looter, I think, but because he honestly didn't understand what it was even after people explained it to him about ten times.

Weird. I've had few problems so far except in one group and I knew it was going to be bad and bailed after our first wipe. (The damn group wiped doing the black fire quest. It's blue to me. We wiped because my champ was the only one in the group who would go peel mobs off of the minstrel and in a fight where the friggin' Captain's herald went and grabbed two elites when we were already fighting 3 I was unable to go save her due to being the only champ using my aoes and such to try to burn the mobs down. We had a guardian but the dwarf champ booted him from the group because he and the guy got into a piss fight.)

LOTRO players seem to me to be a bit nicer than the misanthropic average in MMOGs but also a good bit dumber.

I've had much better luck but I have some rules I follow:

1) If you don't even make an attempt to spell I won't join your group. I am not nitpicking about little stuff but if you post in LFF "r ne1 need Black Fire? LFM" I'm not joining your group or inviting you into mine. Period. Even if the reward for the quest is the Uber sword of orc slayage I won't. If you're too dumb to spell you're too dumb to use good tactics. This especially holds if you use r for are, u for you, ne1 for anyone or anything similiar.
2) If you have a name that is retarded I'm not joining your group. This means guys on my server like pdiddy, cheeseburgler, and powderpuff are not for me. And if I'm leading a fellowship I'll lie to you and tell you we're full if you ask to join. Why? because if you're too stupid to use a name that doesn't sound like a rapper or a mascot for a fast food chain or a little girl's doll then again, you're too stupid to use good tactis.
3) If you're spamming the LFF channel then you're desperate and there is usually a reason why. So again, I'm not joining your group or inviting you into mine. This one is sometimes bent a little depending on how the spam is done.

Knock me for these rules if you want but so far I've only had one bad experience and a couple that weren't as good as I'd like. And the last usually happened because the group leader had invited someone into the group who broke one of my rules. That person then proceeded to fuck up by pulling extra mobs while trying to loot a chest or not doing a conjunction right, etc.

[Numtini]

I'm rather ashamed to say I grouped with the cheeseburglr once in Lone Lands.