Hero

[SirBruce]

I don't really want to go into a long review, so I'll just hit on some key points:

1. It's a very beautiful movie, with an amazing use of color.  If you can appreciate movies solely for their visual beauty, then see it.

2. It is a propaganda film, and hippy liberal Communist Chinese propaganda at that.  You will be preached to.

3. It is not an action movie.  It's really more of a drama.  There are several action sequences but many of them are relatively short.

4. The swordplay and kung-fu and combat special effects are top-notch, although nothing any HK movie goer hasn't already seen before.  The movie uses these very effectively, however, to actually insert some outrageously amazing sequences in the movie that will actually leave you laughing, but in a good way.

Summary: If you like HK movies, see it.  If you like artsy movies, see it.  If you are a movie buff with an appreciation for visual style, see it.  But if you're a typical Western moviegoer hoping to see a foreign action film with some crossover appeal, don't bother.

Bruce

[SirBruce]

43 views and nobody has a comment???

Bruce

[Shockeye]

Only hero I care about is Mel Gibson.

[stray]

43 views and nobody has a comment???

Bruce

I was lookin' forward to it a while back, but now I can't help thinking how much it resembles a Madonna video. Or something. Meh, not my kind of flick.

[Joe]

I saw it. Wasn't spectacular, but it wasn't terrible.

Bruce is right about the combat. There's a scene involving a water droplet that left me rolling. It sort of shot its load on the first scene and got progressively worse, but that could just be the gimmicks wearing off more quickly than they hoped.

Visually stunning (I wouldn't mind buying a still or two), but the story was a bit muddled. They had a great character sorta go to waste for two thirds of the movie, and it left me wanting to see more about him.

[Ookii]

Just saw it... the best way I can describe it is, "crouching tiger except 1000 times better".

[SurfD]

Visually stunning (I wouldn't mind buying a still or two), but the story was a bit muddled. They had a great character sorta go to waste for two thirds of the movie, and it left me wanting to see more about him.

This is appearently Miramax's fault.  I watched a downloaded sub of it, and needed to go searching for translations for the opening/closing text blurbs (for some reason, the subbers didnt sub the text, only the in movie dialogue) and this lead to the discovery that appearently Miramax edited about 20 minutes or so out of the movie.  Much of that was character building and story stuff that reportedly makes the movie much better.

I will try to dig up the website that mentioned it.

[Krakrok]

I was going to go see it but then I decided not to feed the copyright regime another $6.50.

[toma levine]

You only pay $6.50 for your movies? Man. Can't get away with less than $9 for a movie around here.

That said, I didn't see this in the theater either.

[Alluvian]

Toma, do you have a 'second run' theater in your area?  I find it a great way to see movies, and these days they don't degrade like they used to so second run visual quality is still great.  Audio is dependent on the theater of course.  We have a decent one here in orlando (older 6 screen theater) that is $1.50 nights and $0.75 days.  I love it, and will go and see even movies I know will suck because it is so cheap (no soda with crappy movie rule).

I also find it the most logical way to protest rising movie costs.  Then again I am still weak and will see movies on the first run as well.  Around here our prices are $8.50 nights and I think 6.50 or 7.50 matinee (Orlando, FL).

Hell I went to see around the world in 80 days this weekend.  My GOD it sucked.  I actually think they should have paid me, but .75 out of pocket is far cheaper than even renting it.

Hero is cheap theater realm for me I think.  Maybe the wife will want to see it earlier though.

[Arcadian Del Sol]

it looks like Crouching Tiger: Revolutions

it also looks like Tarrantino is trying to be McG.

[toma levine]

There used to be a dollar theater not far from where I used to live. Due to gang activity (and the rapid decline of business immediately following) it was closed down. Where I currently live there are 2 theaters, both built prior to 1985 or so when stadium seating became the de facto standard. Both charge no less than $8. For decent seating, it means driving down to Ontario Mills which is not only $9, but overcrowded and the sound system is pegged at 11.

As such, my views on movie piracy are rather liberal.

[Zetleft]

it looks like Crouching Tiger: Revolutions

it also looks like Tarrantino is trying to be McG.

Tarantino had nothing to do with this flick besides bringing it over to US theatres.   They just like pimping his name in the adverts to sell it.

[Paelos]

it looks like Crouching Tiger: Revolutions

it also looks like Tarrantino is trying to be McG.

You're giving Tarrantino too much credit. He's no McG.

[Rasix]

it looks like Crouching Tiger: Revolutions

it also looks like Tarrantino is trying to be McG.

You're giving Tarrantino too much credit. He's no McG.

I know the Tarrantino hate here is off the scale, but worse than McG?  Ugg.. have you ever had to sit through one of those damned Charlie's Angels movies?

[Paelos]

No in all seriousness he's not, but when you wait six years to direct a movie and come out with Kill Bill, and your next production is supposed to be a rip off of the Dirty Dozen, you've offically lost it. He goes into my catagory of "was good when he was young and relatively unknown". Fame killed his creativity, if he had a bunch to begin with.

[HaemishM]

No one, is worse than McFUCKIN'G.

Except this guy.

[WayAbvPar]

No one, is worse than McFUCKIN'G.

Except this guy.

I would put Renny Harlin and John Woo in the same ballpark.

[toma levine]

You all should treat yourself to a Coleman Francis film. You'll feel better about Tarantino, honest.

[Merusk]

No one, is worse than McFUCKIN'G.

Except this guy.

Far Cry, Bloodrayne and Alone in the Dark? It's like the trifecta of suckdom. I almost expect anyplace he goes to collapse inward and create a micro black hole.

[HaemishM]

Have you seen the net "trailer" first peek thing of Alone in the Dark yet? Because if you haven't seen that, or "House of the Dead" you really have no idea just how much a director can suck. I share the joy.

EDIT: Hmmm, that one's not quite as bad as the other one I've seen. Which is to say, it isn't good, but it doesn't show the true suck inherent in this flick.

[jpark]

I quite enjoyed Hero.  While the propaganda was obvious - it was neat to see from a cultural perspective (heh I wonder how they react to our films).

I do mourn the passing of martial arts though.  That's what this film signifies to me.  The Matrix set in motion a revolution where special effects for martial arts are expected, so now even people with the athletic build of Woody Allen can do martial arts flicks since the work is left to a lot of visual magic / effects.

Jet Li is one of the most athletic performers I see in film today.  But why bother showing a real round house kick performed in real time, when audiences drool at the prospect of spider man like agility made possible by special effects?

To my point, Jet Li actually did not do much fighting in this film vs. his co-stars as one might have expected.  He actually did some acting.

Am I the only one?  Didn't anyone go see martial arts flicks from the days of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris and marvel at their flexibility and agility?  You could do that because it was "real" (nod to Jackie Chan here).  

Anyone can be an action hero now.  

/rant off

[Bunk]

Only real complaint I have is that they dumbed down the subtitle translation a bit from the DVD version Ive seen.

**Spoilers sort of**








Broken Sword's epiphany is translated in the new release as "Our Land" where as the correct translation is "All Under Heaven" or "All Under the Sky".  It may sound trivial, but I find it insulting that they changed it just to make it "easier to understand"

**Spoilers off**



As to JParks complaints of all the wire work and such, well, thats the style of movie here - its a fantasy story, its not supposed to be realistic.  I think its a good thing that we can now have movies capture the visual elements of a story based on mythology that well.

If you want to complain about the death of good martial arts in movies, complain about Jackie Chan doing the Medallion...

[Arnold]

II do mourn the passing of martial arts though.  That's what this film signifies to me.  The Matrix set in motion a revolution where special effects for martial arts are expected, so now even people with the athletic build of Woody Allen can do martial arts flicks since the work is left to a lot of visual magic / effects.

Jet Li is one of the most athletic performers I see in film today.  But why bother showing a real round house kick performed in real time, when audiences drool at the prospect of spider man like agility made possible by special effects?

I'm gettting tired of all the CGI crap.  I'd like to see some combat that's less fancy and more brutal.  I want to see some quick, dirty, fighting that gives the viewer the feeling of the brutality that is happening on screen.  The CGI fighting has become quite ludicrous.

Hell, CGI could look pretty good if all the directors weren't trying to show off their FX so much.  I haven't seen Spiderman 2, but the first movie was laughably cartoonish.  They had the "camera" way too close to the CGI spiderman, while he was swinging around, on patrol, and it just looked stupid.  If they had kept the lighting down and backed the camera up a bit, it would have been much better looking.

[schild]

Hell, CGI could look pretty good if all the directors weren't trying to show off their FX so much.  I haven't seen Spiderman 2, but the first movie was laughably cartoonish.  They had the "camera" way too close to the CGI spiderman, while he was swinging around, on patrol, and it just looked stupid.  If they had kept the lighting down and backed the camera up a bit, it would have been much better looking.

Don't insult our beloved Spider, kthx. Mentioning him in a thread with that fucker Jet Li is already opening a wound, no reason to rub salt on it.

If you want to complain about the death of good martial arts in movies, complain about Jackie Chan doing the Medallion...

Jackie Chan can do all the shit he wants now - he can pharm Hollywood for teh moneyz. He gave us "Mr. Canton and Lady Rose" (known to laymens as Miracles and to fucking idiots as 'Black Dragon'). Who the fuck knows why they changed the name both times. The first title coincedentally is the best, though the second one captures the heart of the film a little better (Miracles).

Here - if you want good old fashioned Chan style Kung-foolery watch the following:

Wheels on Meals
Heart of Dragon (more drama, but fantastic, Sammo Hung plays a retarded man-child)
My Lucky Stars (skip the sequels)
The Legend of Drunken Master (the new one, not the 30 year old one)
Who Am I (there's I think...one scene of wire-fu in here)
Winners and Sinners (which is actually a prequel to My Lucky Stars, though like no one knows this, I think the original name was Five Lucky Stars)
Project A I and II (particularly #2)
Dragons Forever

That's pretty much the whole she-bang when it comes to Jackie Chan. I think he's approaching 100 movies in his career of acting in actual roles, and an entire 9 of them are worth watching. He's batting a phat .100.

I would have to say his work with Yuen Biao and Sammo Hung are what really puts him over the top. When Sammo Hung is playing Fatso and leading a prison gang, the magic on the screen just gets turned up. Fantastic stuff.

If you can't tell I like my Asian cinema.

In other news, Jet Li sucks a fat one and I wish this guy hadn't jumped out of a building two years ago. At least there's an interesting story behind that..

[Murgos]

I'm gettting tired of all the CGI crap.  I'd like to see some combat that's less fancy and more brutal.  I want to see some quick, dirty, fighting that gives the viewer the feeling of the brutality that is happening on screen.  The CGI fighting has become quite ludicrous.

Oddly enough the best example I've seen recently of a good realistic fight scene is the one in the school hallway in Grosse Point Blank.  I can not recall one since then that even comes close to that one of actually looking like two guys trying to kill each other with thier hands and feet and weapons of opportunity.

I don't mind wire work when it's used as a means to move an action up from  'humanly possible' to 'Olympic level or not quite humanly possible but still mostly realistic'.  Like for instance in the middle of a fight scene instead of an actor doing a 6 - 8 foot leap across some obstruction or chasm he/she pulls of a 10 - 12 foot leap and lands cleanly with balance and as flowing portion of the action.

I don't really mind the extreme wire stuff like crouching tiger hidden dragon because it was a fairy tale and the wire stuff was really more of a dance scene than a fight scene.  The fight in the trees for instance added entirely to the feeling of the fairy tale quality of the movie.  Hero OTOH made far too much use of extreme wire acts in scenes that didn't need them.  I still enjoyed Hero but I would have enjoyed it more if the wire work was tied to something important to the flow of the scene, as it was the flying people were jarring everytime they were introduced - there was a rythm to the action that was interrupted by the wires not inhanced by it.

[kaid]

I always liked samo hung that man is very spry for a big guy and when he and jackie are together it is very amusing.

kaid

[HaemishM]

I'm gettting tired of all the CGI crap.  I'd like to see some combat that's less fancy and more brutal.  I want to see some quick, dirty, fighting that gives the viewer the feeling of the brutality that is happening on screen.  The CGI fighting has become quite ludicrous.

Oddly enough the best example I've seen recently of a good realistic fight scene is the one in the school hallway in Grosse Point Blank.  I can not recall one since then that even comes close to that one of actually looking like two guys trying to kill each other with thier hands and feet and weapons of opportunity.

Grosse Point Blank is still one of my favorite movies, and you're right, that fight scene just hit all the right notes. Since the fucking Matrix, everybody has felt that if it doesn't have wire fu, it's not a good action movie. I'd like a little bit less wire in my fu these days.

[WayAbvPar]

I'm gettting tired of all the CGI crap.  I'd like to see some combat that's less fancy and more brutal.  I want to see some quick, dirty, fighting that gives the viewer the feeling of the brutality that is happening on screen.  The CGI fighting has become quite ludicrous.

Oddly enough the best example I've seen recently of a good realistic fight scene is the one in the school hallway in Grosse Point Blank.  I can not recall one since then that even comes close to that one of actually looking like two guys trying to kill each other with thier hands and feet and weapons of opportunity.

Grosse Point Blank is still one of my favorite movies, and you're right, that fight scene just hit all the right notes. Since the fucking Matrix, everybody has felt that if it doesn't have wire fu, it's not a good action movie. I'd like a little bit less wire in my fu these days.

Funny that GPB came up- I just happened to watch it again this weekend (goddamn I love Comcast On Demand!). Apart from the realistic action in the fight scene, I liked the fact that there wasn't a faceoff or showdown. No words were spoken. It was just 'Hey, there is that motherfucker that wants to kill me! DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

[schild]

Funny that GPB came up- I just happened to watch it again this weekend (goddamn I love Comcast On Demand!). Apart from the realistic action in the fight scene, I liked the fact that there wasn't a faceoff or showdown. No words were spoken. It was just 'Hey, there is that motherfucker that wants to kill me! DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

POPCORN!

[Alluvian]

Wheels on Meals
Heart of Dragon (more drama, but fantastic, Sammo Hung plays a retarded man-child)
My Lucky Stars (skip the sequels)
The Legend of Drunken Master (the new one, not the 30 year old one)
Who Am I (there's I think...one scene of wire-fu in here)
Winners and Sinners (which is actually a prequel to My Lucky Stars, though like no one knows this, I think the original name was Five Lucky Stars)
Project A I and II (particularly #2)
Dragons Forever

I will have to check out this list.  The Legend of Drunken Master (Have seen both, hated the old one LOVED the new one) was an awesome movie.  Coming from someone who does not know much at all about Asian kung fu cinema.  I think I will take this list to blockbuster soon and see if they have any of this other stuff.

I liked Rumble in the Bronx actually as well.  His US debut had a lot of real nice stuntwork in it.  Acting was a train wreck.  Stunt work fascinates me though and I really like seeing the outtakes at the end of the movie to get a better feel of how some of it was done, or a glimpse of how many takes each scene may have taken.

I am in the boat where Chan can do whatever he wants now and I still love the guy.  I might think the movies suck, but I think he deserves to kick back and enjoy whatever he is doing.  He seems to enjoy directing 3 stooges style slapstick comedy now.  Around the world in 80 days was up there with House of the Dead on my bad movies list.

[Capt_XplOrOrOr]

Wheels on Meals
Heart of Dragon (more drama, but fantastic, Sammo Hung plays a retarded man-child)
My Lucky Stars (skip the sequels)
The Legend of Drunken Master (the new one, not the 30 year old one)
Who Am I (there's I think...one scene of wire-fu in here)
Winners and Sinners (which is actually a prequel to My Lucky Stars, though like no one knows this, I think the original name was Five Lucky Stars)
Project A I and II (particularly #2)
Dragons Forever

I will have to check out this list.  The Legend of Drunken Master (Have seen both, hated the old one LOVED the new one) was an awesome movie.  Coming from someone who does not know much at all about Asian kung fu cinema.  I think I will take this list to blockbuster soon and see if they have any of this other stuff.

I liked Rumble in the Bronx actually as well.  His US debut had a lot of real nice stuntwork in it.  Acting was a train wreck.  Stunt work fascinates me though and I really like seeing the outtakes at the end of the movie to get a better feel of how some of it was done, or a glimpse of how many takes each scene may have taken.

I am in the boat where Chan can do whatever he wants now and I still love the guy.  I might think the movies suck, but I think he deserves to kick back and enjoy whatever he is doing.  He seems to enjoy directing 3 stooges style slapstick comedy now.  Around the world in 80 days was up there with House of the Dead on my bad movies list.

 Jackie Chan's first US debut unofficially was with Bruce Lee in 1972. When it got released on major movie screens in America. The original Asian name of the movie was "Jing wu men".

 Jackie Chan's first US debut officially was in the ultra-classic American movie "The Cannonball Run" in 1981.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082136/

 [One of the most famous quotes from "Cannonball Run"]
California Highway Patrolman : Headquarters, we are still in pursuit of the black Lamborghini.
Dispatcher: Car 42, you've been in pursuit for two hours. Another five minutes and you'll be in Arizona.
  --------
Batman : Mad Dog, you ARE going to take the shortcut to the Interstate, aren't you?
Mad Dog : We're here to win, ain't we? If you're gonna be a bear, BE A GRIZZLY!
Both: ARRR!
   -------
Jamie Blake : That's a good-looking piece! and cunningly disguised so it won't look like a racing car, you know. The cops would never give that a second glance!
Jill Rivers : 220 miles an hour and they aren't gonna get a second glance!


  It also featured a cast of some of the most famous Hollywood stars during that time, including Roger Moore, and Burt Reynolds, Sammy Davis Jr, Dean Martin, Farrah Fawcett (who is in an upcoming movie). football legend Terry Bradshaw, and the one and only.... Peter Fonda. Along with Bianca Jagger, and Jimmy the Greek (anyone remember him? :).

  But Hollywood was still anti-Asian (didn't like the idea of young white American women and girls swooning over an Asian male hero) and would not allow Chan's career in America to continue to take off. Chan would re-return decades later with "Rumble in the Bronx".

  Hero[/i] was an intresting movie. Worth seeing, and worth paying to see. It is a shame it came out in Asia many years ago and is now getting released in America. IMHO it was overall better than Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. But the fight scenes in CTHD were better. Hero is based much more on the acting, story, and plot.

 It is very simular in style to how Pulp Fiction was done. The "end" is shown first, with the start "re-played". (Though actually Pulp Fiction copied that unique style from Hong Kong cinema aka it's the other way around, Pulp Fiction has a storyline simular to Hero, and other Asian movies..... but alas the American market gets to see Asian movies years, and close to decades after they come out in Asia. *sniff*)
 I like how the main theme in Hero is very realistic in that the Hero finds out he is used and manipulated by everyone. The badguy is not a 1 dimensional badguy. Just like the hero is not a 1 dimensional goodguy.

[schild]

You just copied that off IMDB didn't you? Never do that again.

His first appearance was in Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon. He got hit in the face with a bo by mistake. He was Minion #14 or some shit. My list is definitive. If you want to hear about Jackie Chan's life all you need to do is rent "My Story" at Blockbuster. Kthx.

[SurfD]

I like how the main theme in Hero is very realistic in that the Hero finds out he is used and manipulated by everyone.

OOOOOO KAY.  Now, please tell me exactly what you were smoking, injecting, AND imbiming at the time you wrote that rediculous bit of wordage.

First off, the ending is NOT shown first (at least not in the version I watched), rather, a story is told, and re told, as events become more and more clear, and layers of subterfuge and misinterpretation are peeled back and clarified.  Hell, if shown in chronological order, without all the replays, there is still a good 20 minutes of movie occuring after that bit you seem to believe is the "ending".

Second, in what concievable way is the nameless Hero, who fucking sets all the events in play to begin with manipulated by everyone?  Hell, if anyone is manipulated in the story it is the supposeldy villianous King, who is brought enlightenment through the related byplay between Broken Sword and Nameless, and through Broken Swords scroll.

Nameless is not manipulated, rather he sees the truth in the end, and acts in his chosen way.

[SirBruce]

Well, now that people are doing spoilers, I'll elaborate on some of my original post.

First of all, the whole "Greatest thing a warrior can do is not to fight" Zen kaon-type philosophy has been used in storytelling forever.  I was a little annoyed not that this was one of the morals of the movie, but that the message was hammered so hard and played like it was some amazing and unique insight.

Secondly, the whole giving oneself for the betterment of the whole community is a very left-wing liberal/socialist/communist philosophy.  "It takes a village" and all that.  It is ironic that in the US the left accuses the right of wanting to infringe on civil liberties in order to provide national security and power, yet the liberal ideal is to do exactly the same, except through a moral imperative motivated by the sense of serving the greater good.  After all, this is why they want to take money out of one person's pocket to put in another's, or to have to community vote collectively on how to utilize resources and property, or whatever other modified form of socialism they aspire to.  I realize I'm lumping in a lot of different philosophies here, but there's a common theme running through them.

Thirdly, as I pointed out to my friends when I saw the picture, the movie glorifies this type of sacrifice, and hints that it's not just something warriors should do, but which all people should do.  Yet the King himself was not such a man.  No, he gets to enjoy the sacrifices of others, so that he may be King for the betterment of all.  But why him?  Because he's willing?  If that's what people want in their government, hey, I'll happily be part of the right-wing power-wielding elite class who run the country for the betterment of all while the left-wing liberals give up their life and liberty to empower the elite to work for the greater good.  Wow, what do you know, a Despotic oligarchy masquerading as a Communist state -- just like China, and the USSR before it.

Bruce