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Author Topic: 10th Spoilers  (Read 9879 times)
Johny Cee
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on: June 07, 2007, 11:46:59 PM

Spoilers for Xth Edition are starting to show up at the usual places. 

The Good:  Painlands in, Birds in.  Very good choices for new Core set cards like Condemn and Cancel.  Legends are being printed for the first time,  and they seem to have made some good choices.  Reya Dawnbringer, Arcanis.  Incinerate is in.  The good manlands (Urza blocks) seem to be in.  Confirmation on Treetop Village and Faerie Conclave.  Hurkyl's Recall back in to hose affinity in Extended.

The Bad:  Troll Ascetic is in.  Savanah Lions and Stone Rain out.

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schild
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Reply #1 on: June 07, 2007, 11:52:32 PM

Troll Ascetic is in and the lions are out? The lions are one of my favorite cheap creatures ever.

Jeez.
Johny Cee
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Reply #2 on: June 08, 2007, 12:07:37 AM

Troll Ascetic is in and the lions are out? The lions are one of my favorite cheap creatures ever.

Jeez.

The given excuse is "to clear up design space in Expert level sets".  That means next block,  we'll get a decent to good Isamaru/Savanah Lions type critter.

I just dislike the Troll.  It never adds anything to games.  It was voted in by the idiots at mtg.com over Ravenous Baloth,  which is an interesting efficient creature whose ability makes it tricksier then you'd think.

For instance,  present Standard format,  Bridge from Below dredge decks are coming in and Dragonstorm is a hot deck.  Baloth's ability helps to hose Dragonstorm and aggro by doubling as needed (and good) lifegain,  while his instant speed no cost sac ability would hose Bridge a bit.

In both cases,  Baloth doesn't break those other decks.  It just gives a Green deck a reasonable shot against two comboish decks.
Margalis
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Reply #3 on: June 08, 2007, 01:57:22 AM

The votes on mtg.com almost always come down the opposite of the way they should, even the artwork votes. For example the Lord of the Pit vote made me cry a little, they voted in a very awkward anatomically awful and generic image over a pretty cool, evil and inspired one.

I agree that the Troll adds nothing to games. He's just a good green beater.

If Birds are in are elves out? They said before they didn't want both in the same set.

Arcanis! I always loved his artwork.

Edit: Looks like Elves are in too...guess they got gun-shy, not a surprise really.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2007, 01:59:32 AM by Margalis »

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Raging Turtle
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Reply #4 on: June 08, 2007, 10:00:47 AM

They're replacing the art for Goblin Piledriver!  What the hell!

And yeah, boring set so far.
Calantus
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Reply #5 on: June 08, 2007, 07:15:55 PM

I thought that was the point of the numbered sets; boring cards to form a base for the more interesting sets that come out more often. They don't really want you to play more than a couple 10th Ed cards in a deck.
Raging Turtle
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Reply #6 on: June 08, 2007, 08:52:45 PM

9th was pretty damn good, compared to previous core sets.
Johny Cee
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Reply #7 on: June 09, 2007, 12:57:35 AM

9th was pretty damn good, compared to previous core sets.

I loved drafting 8th.  Was an interesting set,  with all the fairly low powered tapping creatures.  You could get away with tricksy strategies.  Used to clean up with W/U/r,  or just W/U if I got a powerhouse like Temporal Adept.  Multiple Master Decoys and Pacifisms to VICTORY!

I hated 9th.  It played itself.  Not much choice given by the cards.


I think 10th looks interesting.  Bringing back a bunch of powerful cards that never found a niche in Constructed,  like Reya and Arcanis and Kamahl.  Reya is disgusting in Reanimator strategies,  since if she stays on the board she usually means good game as you then proceed to reanimate your graveyard for free.

Arcanis is a decent body at a decent price for blue,  has a sick ability,  and combos well with the other wizards in TS.  Kai is in play (Voidmage Prodigy), Teferi, round out with some decent wizards,  including cards with Wizardcycling now.  Tutor for your key wizard?  Nice.  Arcanis only really saw top tier Constructed play with the Ody/Ons reanimator that would toss Anger in the graveyard to give him haste.

The muse cycle is excellant.  Windborn is a solid card,  with a powerful and very white ability with a great mana cost.  It was overshadowed by the fact that white had at least 4 or 5 of it's best Standard constructed cards ever in the same set (Eternal Dragon, Exalted Angel, Dawn Elemental, Decree of Justice, off the top of my head....  not counting Akroma and Akroma's Veng).

Graveborn is a house, especially in zombie decks.  Hell, it's good as a 4 of in a control deck as card drawing.  Probably replaces Phyrexian Arena.

Lavaborn plus rack might make a good discard deck. 

Seedborn will see play if, as rumor suggests, the next block is a traditional fantasy environment heavy on tribal.  Seedborn + elves is killer, since elves like to attack and tend to have abilites they like to tap for.

Meh on Dreamborn.  Might be useful in a mill or dredge strategy,  but both those strats are only legal for a month or so after 10th hits.

Some good high-powered but fun cards....  Incinerate, Goblin Lore, Treetop Village, CONDEMN!

Condemn is a natural fit in Core.  It's (finally) a fixed version of Swords to Plowshares that isn't broken, but is still powerful.


I have to say,  I like how Wizards seems to be moving towards a new philosphy in color hosers.  Old school hosers pretty much said "if you resolve me, you win the game" like Flashfires or Boil or CoP: Red.  The new hosers are good enough for sideboards, but not crazy enough to completely screw over another player on their own merits.

Prediction:  Wizards has been hyping up the power level for this new set.  I think, especially with Lions gone,  we're going to see an outrageous card or two in White.  I'm thinking Armageddon. 

Then again, Stone Rain is out....

Would LOVE to see Death Cloud make it's return to Standard.  Great card for black,  fun card to play with.


eldaec
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Reply #8 on: June 09, 2007, 05:15:29 AM

I certainly agree that the overall 10th powerlevel and the complexity of the cards is much nearer the expansion level - which for me is a good thing.

The problem is too many cards have been chosen to get the kids excited rather than thinking about whether they make a fun and healthly environment (Troll Ascetic, Birds of Paradise, Khamal, Incinerate, Goblin Piledriver).

The naive would point out that some of these were selected through votes.

No they weren't.

They were put in votes against obvious aunt sally candidates so 'teh community' could perform their usual trick and just blindly vote for the most powerful card. I hate MtG public votes.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Margalis
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Reply #9 on: June 10, 2007, 08:22:48 PM

It does look more interesting than 9th, which was not interesting at all. That said, it is still a core set.

vampirehipi23: I would enjoy a book written by a monkey and turned into a movie rather than this.
Raging Turtle
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Reply #10 on: June 10, 2007, 08:41:11 PM

Yeah, I think I was thinking about 8th, not 9th. 
Johny Cee
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Reply #11 on: June 10, 2007, 11:23:45 PM

I certainly agree that the overall 10th powerlevel and the complexity of the cards is much nearer the expansion level - which for me is a good thing.

The problem is too many cards have been chosen to get the kids excited rather than thinking about whether they make a fun and healthly environment (Troll Ascetic, Birds of Paradise, Khamal, Incinerate, Goblin Piledriver).

The naive would point out that some of these were selected through votes.

No they weren't.

They were put in votes against obvious aunt sally candidates so 'teh community' could perform their usual trick and just blindly vote for the most powerful card. I hate MtG public votes.

The only problem card I've seen chosen is the Troll.  The Troll turns games into "resolve turn 2/3, beats for the win" against any deck that doesn't have big efficient blockers or global removal.  Platnum Angel is powerful, but expensive and fragile.

The rest?  Birds has never particularly imbalanced play. 

Incinerate is fine as long as it replaces Volcanic Hammer,  especially since Char and Helix are going out soon.  In fact, I think we could stand for more efficiently costed burn at common or uncommon.

Piledriver will probably not see play.  He's not great without Goblin Warchief and some reasonably costed goblins.  Onslaught gobbies had Siege-gang, Warchief, Prospector, Goon, etc. to get going at a flying start.  We have...  Mogg Fanatic and Mogg Warmarshal?

Don't get me wrong, I dislike the votes as well.  That's mostly because they tend to focus on flashy cards with no substance over any decent cards.

Could be worse.  Could see the return of shit like Meloku (which is called for on the Salvation forums), Dark Confidant (seen this called for in forums), Rorix (greatest red finisher ever... great reanimation target) or Arcslogger.  These cards are all format warping,  and tend to freeze out lots of positions in decks.
Johny Cee
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Reply #12 on: June 13, 2007, 11:20:36 PM

While browsing through various forums going over what could make it in 10th....  People are floating the possibility of Brainstorm after some number crunching involving set numbers.  That would be interesting.  Good card,  interesting to play with,  and doesn't generate extreme card advantage.

I'd like to see Duress back in play.  Would help to make combo decks work harder,  and would definitely lay the groundwork for some Armageddon.


The debates on whether WoG is out of color always tend to be funny and entertaining as hell.
Raging Turtle
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Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 11:26:53 PM

Duress is so damn good though, it prevents other quality discard from being printed.  'Freeing up design space' and all that.
Johny Cee
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Reply #14 on: June 25, 2007, 09:22:51 PM

Spoilers are starting to come in quickly.

I'm excited about:

Doomed Necromancer - great reanimator critter

Mobilization - had a rogueish White aggro/control deck in Ons time period that cleaned up using soldiers.  Drop a pump creature or two, drop an Anthem, all of a sudden you're churning out masses of beefy soldiers.  Force your opponent to build up critters that get WoGed.  Course,   I also had Worship.....

Quiron Dryad - Didn't play when she was legal before.  Powerful effect,  could be alot of fun.

Condemn - Finally a fixed Swords to Plowshares,  recognized as a staple.

Reya - Soooo want to reanimate her.

Rule of Law - Anti-storm tech.  Could see some interesting U/W control decks.

Muses - These fellars were on the brink of being playable before.  I think Graveborn will see play,  and Windborn as well.

Academy Researchers - Good effect.  A fun card.

Cantriping spells - May actually see some play,  and it's about time the effects were updated.

Hidden Horror - Nice package of beef with reasonable drawback.  Could see some play if any kind of reanimator deck is viable.

Mortal Combat - Probably not good,  but a much more interesting "fun" card and alternate win condition.

Terror - Yah!  The original!

Seismic Assault - Again, probably is jank.  But more interesting and better then the usual throwaway odd Core set card.

Squee and Masticore - Very, very nice.  Masticore is a reasonable creature,  but suffered from having no way of cheating the upkeep cost.  Also suffered from being in Mirrodin....

Upwelling and Abundance - both interesting cards.  Not out of the box broken,  but could allow for interesting plays in Green which too often suffers from "play creature, swing" over and over and over....

Jayaedome Tome - Reasonably costed colorless card drawing.  A nice "one of" card in a controllish deck.

Pithing Needle - Generic single card hoser.  Will help control any one card from being too dominant.

Manlands - Nice add.  I have a playset of the FNM foiled Treetop Village,  which will now probably zoom in price. 


Good drops from Core:

Persecute - I like Monoblack Control.  But this card makes playing monocolored decks untenable.  If there is going to be a shift into mono/two colored decks, they needed to axe this card so it doesn't cause insta losses.

Mana Leak/Rewind - Scaling back on permission a bit is a good thing.  Still have lots of anytime counter (remand for a couple more months; Rune Snag for a year),  but it may force players to use conditional counters more.  Remove Soul is a good answer to aggro strategies that has only ever seen play as metagame call when control is dominant.

Arena - Well....  I love Phyrexian Arena.  But it's been in Standard a while,  and I'd really like to see Wizards experiment with some new card advantage engine.  Also,  with the general scaling back of Blues card draw,  Arena needed to be gone so Black didn't become the defacto card draw color.
eldaec
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Reply #15 on: June 26, 2007, 06:12:44 AM

White removal seems to take big step up, as well as condemn you have pariah, pacifism, hail of arrows, and of course WoG.

I'm ambivalent about pithing needle, I generally don't like rare cards that fit into every sideboard and just raise price of entry.

Black, and to some extent blue seem to be getting the shaft, but that may be a good thing as the casual room has been overcrowded with swamps for god knows how long, and they need to get away from the perception of black being the colour of casual decks, blue being the colour of tourney decks.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
eldaec
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Reply #16 on: June 29, 2007, 06:29:42 PM

10th edition card list is complete...

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=77078


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Johny Cee
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Reply #17 on: June 29, 2007, 10:10:27 PM

White removal seems to take big step up, as well as condemn you have pariah, pacifism, hail of arrows, and of course WoG.

I'm ambivalent about pithing needle, I generally don't like rare cards that fit into every sideboard and just raise price of entry.

Black, and to some extent blue seem to be getting the shaft, but that may be a good thing as the casual room has been overcrowded with swamps for god knows how long, and they need to get away from the perception of black being the colour of casual decks, blue being the colour of tourney decks.


White has been underpowered since Onslaught block,  where it was arguably the strongest it had ever been.  Pariah is alright,  but it's creature based so vulnerable to mass removal and spot removal,  not too mention enchantment removal. 

Condemn is a good addition to the core as a staple effect.


Black is finding out why it actually doesn't want WoG as a staple card:  the rest of their mechanics are getting gutted for balance.  Persecute had to go, anyway, with a shift from multicolor.  If Damnation (or any other very efficient mass removal) becomes a black staple mechanic,  then black is going to have to put up with what comes with it.

I love playing an interesting MBC deck....  and played a great, fun MBC Standard deck during Ons/Mirrodin.  Black should get powerful but risky effects.  Unfortunately, most players who like Black just want to have powerful effects.  I'd love to see cards like Promise of Power return.

Blue is getting toned down,  and emphasis is being moved from permission/card drawing to card advantage and utility effects.  Good change.  Permission and draw go sucks as an archetype.  I like the switch in counter....  emphasizing that cheap counter has to be very conditional (Remove Soul, Flashfreeze),  and good for either the aggro matchup or the control matchup.  The days of Blue just running their best suite of counter and draw,  and barely even needing a sideboard, are over.
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