Don't run with scissors

[Righ]

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/new_jersey/7894722.html

It's dangerous.

[lesion]

don't they have tasers for that kind of thing? or do they only reserve those for unarmed students?

even a nightstick to the face, or a boot to the ass. a flying boot attached to a policeman.

[Sir Fodder]

Aww damn, the cop knew the kid was a mentally ill student and still shot him in the chest and abdomen. There are almost always better ways of handling such situations. :-(

[Llava]

I wanted to know how old the kid was.

[Der Helm]

I don't know, if somebody attacks me with a weapon that could seriously harm me, I would use lethal force as well.

I see no reason to put my own life at risk even more. As far as I know, that is how German policemen are trained as well.

[Murgos]

I don't know, if somebody attacks me with a weapon that could seriously harm me, I would use lethal force as well.

I see no reason to put my own life at risk even more. As far as I know, that is how German policemen are trained as well.

It's pretty much the only way anyone is trained who might need to use lethal force as part of their job and everyone who spends 30 seconds thinking about the subject usually agrees that's the best way to handle it.

[Signe]

They had no choice.  He had to be stopped.  He was RUNNING with SCISSORS! 

[Calantus]

Did the policeman have pepper spray? If not I'd say shooting the guy was the best idea. I wouldn't try to tazer someone with a sharp object if you paid me, but pepper spray I can see. If he didn't have pepper spray I'd say that needs to be looked into. If he DID have pepper spray then they probably need to better drill it into their heads to use that as the first resort when possible. 19 years on the force is a lot of years spent with your gun being your only reliable defence. I don't think you can really blame the officer making the decision under pressure to shoot even if he did have other options that were better.

[Der Helm]

You don't try to stop someone who is attacking you with a potentialy lethal weapon with pepper spray.

[Signe]

How close to you have to be to the guy for pepper spray to work? 

[HaemishM]

The headline should have read "Edward Scissorhands Involved in Fatal Shooting."

Yeah, I got nothing.

[lesion]

How close to you have to be to the guy for pepper spray to work? 

5 yards unless you have points in Liquid-Fu, in which case it increases by .5 yards per level of Hardened Force Veteran

[cmlancas]

How close to you have to be to the guy for pepper spray to work? 

Pepper spray is about 5-10 feet, but it unleashes a cloud. One of my good friends I work with is a firefighter/EMS response and had to be pepper sprayed before he went on active-duty (some sort of police/firefighter/ems thing). The interesting thing I didn't know about pepper spray is that it is a cloud effect: basically both people, the one firing the spray and the target both feel the effects. Granted the one firing the spray isn't taking the liquid to the eyes, but it still burns.

I do think that there are many more options than lethal force in this instance. I've seen many tazers/electric force videos and I know damn well that if I tazered/shot you with an electric deal, you'd be on the ground and incapacitated. I couldn't offer you enough money to move after you got tazed. Electricity doesn't fuck around, kids. Literally, you stagger and fall. Check out youtube if you don't believe me.

[vex]

Clearly, for the safety of our children, we need to establish a scissors free safety zone around all schools.  This of course would include the usual zero tolerance stance that would punish those that even drew pictures of scissors.

V

[Paelos]

First point: Why in the hell does a school with Mentally and Behaviorly disordered students give access to objects that can fatally injure others? You don't leave matches lying around next to a bunch of pyros.

Second point: Someone runs at you with a crazed look in your eye while you are holding a gun, tell me what you would do. Then, tell me if you lived.

[cmlancas]

First point: Why in the hell does a school with Mentally and Behaviorly disordered students give access to objects that can fatally injure others? You don't leave matches lying around next to a bunch of pyros.

Second point: Someone runs at you with a crazed look in your eye while you are holding a gun, tell me what you would do. Then, tell me if you lived.

I have mixed feelings about this. I support the use of deadly force, but I think that it could've been handled better by using an alternate method than gunfire.

[Paelos]

A barrage of baseballs perhaps?

[cmlancas]

A barrage of baseballs perhaps?

I thought we were discussing tazers. Possibly rubber bullets or tear gas in seriousness?

Horseshit would be a good one if we're trying to think of silly ways that might still be effective.

[voodoolily]

Meh, one less psycho to sponge my tax dollars.

[Murgos]

These conversations always devolve into the same thing.

"They should have done something else."
"OK, What?"
"Well, something."
"Yeah, let us know when you think of it."

Also, I've seen people get pepper sprayed.  If you are waiting until the last 10 feet of someone's knife/scissors wielding charge to pepper spray them then you probably deserve your multiple stab wounds.

[Chimpy]

First point: Why in the hell does a school with Mentally and Behaviorly disordered students give access to objects that can fatally injure others? You don't leave matches lying around next to a bunch of pyros.

That is the biggest thing about this to me.

I went to a regular public school, and they did not let us have non "safety" scissors until jr. high. I can't see why a place like this would not just take that to the logical end scenario.

Some school administrator is going to lose their job over this incident I bet.

[WindupAtheist]

I think they should have pepper sprayed the kid.  To death.  That'd keep the other ones in line.

[Righ]

Running with scissors is serious business. Keep trivial discussions of deadly force out of it. In any case, if you advocate that the police should use deadly force in all threatening situations, you should find the cop to be at fault here too. He failed to kill his attacker, twice. Pretty pathetic. He needs to go back to school to learn how to defend against somebody armed with a piece of fruit.

[HaemishM]

What about pointy sticks?

[Oban]

Did you miss the point about bananas?

[Signe]

In old cartoons and comedies and stuff, sometimes they throw a bag of marbles at the bad guy and he always slips on them and falls over.  Why wouldn't this sort of thing work?  Seriously.

[Der Helm]

Running with scissors is serious business. Keep trivial discussions of deadly force out of it. In any case, if you advocate that the police should use deadly force in all threatening situations, you should find the cop to be at fault here too. He failed to kill his attacker, twice. Pretty pathetic. He needs to go back to school to learn how to defend against somebody armed with a piece of fruit.

Wasn't he hit in chest and abdomen ? That is the area you should aim for if you want to stop an attacker.

[Righ]

Oh come on. That's like saying that the body is the place you want to hit. Or New Jersey. The heart is nice and big for that range. A miss is a miss.

[Chimpy]

In old cartoons and comedies and stuff, sometimes they throw a bag of marbles at the bad guy and he always slips on them and falls over.  Why wouldn't this sort of thing work?  Seriously.

It actually would work if you could get the marbles to stay in the path of the person chasing you.

[Righ]

So heat seeking marbles then?

[Der Helm]

Oh come on. That's like saying that the body is the place you want to hit. Or New Jersey. The heart is nice and big for that range. A miss is a miss.

This discussion reminds me of ...

[Strazos]

Willingboro is generally not a nice area, so I would think the cop would be preconditioned to respond with force to a threatening situation.

[Sir Fodder]

Well, the follow up article said that the student lunged at the officer, so the cop probably had no other choice at that point. The thing is, we don't know the particulars, but most likely the cops were pumped up, screaming and yelling at the kid in a threatening manner that would only tend to result in further escalating the situation. Some basic communication and negotiation skills can go a long ways towards preventing violent outcomes like this, sometimes even when faced with raving lunatics.

Making light of this sad situation is pathetic. Where does distasteful humor cross the line: a mentally ill guy smearing himself with feces? homeless people beatings? rape? Columbine? 9/11? Holocaust?

[voodoolily]

Making light of this sad situation is pathetic. Where does distasteful humor cross the line: a mentally ill guy smearing himself with feces? homeless people beatings? rape? Columbine? 9/11? Holocaust?

Welcome to the internet, pussy.

[Cheddar]

Edit by Trippy: cut it out