SOE's Next MMOG (for the PS3, oh noes): The Agency

[Trippy]

Whats a voice font?

Yeah I did, but it ("A voice font is a computer-generated voice that can be controlled by specifying parameters such as speed and pitch and made to pronounce text input") didn't seem to make sense in this context. Just wondering if maybe he meant some kind of voice masquerading function and if this stuff is technically practical yet.

My guess is he wants a text to speech converter in these sorts of games so you don't have to constantly be reading the chat box for those that aren't on voice chat.

[schild]

Uhhhh duuuurrrrrrr. They already have it in many XBL games.

text to speech

right

ignore me.

[SnakeCharmer]

Hello? Is someone talking?

[Paelos]

Every MMO sucks if you play with random jerkoffs rather than friends or guildmates. I really don't see what you mean.

The point was that you're ALWAYS playing with random jerkoffs in an MMOG, you just can't hear them.

[Fordel]

Do we really need actual keyboards if all they are going to be used for is chat?

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/04/09/hands-on-pics-of-the-xbox-360-qwerty-keyboard/

Things like this seem really keen for a console MMO, flows well with all the cellphone texting folks do these days.

[WindupAtheist]

N64 had one for the 64DD in Japan. Try the SNES era.

Try earlier.  The first time I ever typed up an email it was on the SNES.

[schild]

N64 had one for the 64DD in Japan. Try the SNES era.

Try earlier.  The first time I ever typed up an email it was on the SNES.

In America? What? Pray tell, where did you get a hardware keyboard for the SNES?

[WindupAtheist]

I think we had to mail away for it.  Xband was never huge, but I'm mildly surprised you don't remember it.  It was a modem that plugged in between your console and cartridge like a Game Genie, and let you play/chat/email over their service.  I had a record of 212-64 at Killer Instinct.

It was fucking awesome.  Nationwide service involved long-distance charges, so most people didn't bother, and thus matches all took place between people within the same calling area.  There was a whole little community of local teenage console nerds that played.  There were organized get-togethers, people started hanging out, a couple kids started dating, and eventually the whole social network migrated into real life.  To this day, over a decade later, I have very close IRL friends whom I would otherwise have never met.

Edit, PS:  There was even an Atari 2600 keyboard, though I never owned one.  And of course the Famicom had a keyboard available in Japan.

[Simond]

The thing that I really don't like about mmo's on console is that either a) you'll be required to buy a keyboard to communicate or b) you'll be forced to use voice chat.  If someone can incorporate a keyboard well, I'd be fine with that.  I really don't want to be forced into a large world with voicechat... he;;, the general chat channel text in WoW makes me want to stab myself in the face. I can't imagine having to listen to it.

Integral voice chat: WoW is adding it Soon(tm). EVE has it already. Pretty much ever new MMOG from now on will have it. A lot of guilds have a vent/TS server anyway.

Consoles: More customers, standardized hardware, all-but-untapped market. Of course publishers want to move their money hat factories onto them.

Welcome to the 21st century. Enjoy your stay.

[Trippy]

Consoles: More customers

Not true if you are talking about the PS3. Might be true for the Xbox 360 depending on how many people bought a Core system and the system requirements for the game. Categorically false if you include S. Korea and China where the majority of the MMO players in the world reside.

[Falconeer]

LotRO has voice chat too.
I'm all yay about console MMOs, and PS3 ones are warmly welcomed.

[Sky]

Everyone I know has a pc. A few have consoles.

The problem with pc devs is that folks like Firaxis have a niche sewn up (adults, non-gaming pc). And then they throw in a 3d engine "just 'cause", and blow that entire demographic.

Mmo, spies, niche console...this is why the Agency would fail. WoW succeeds firstly because it runs on a goddamned toaster. Secondly because it runs on a toaster, it gains mindshare until you have to play it because that's what your friends play.

Kids don't play Runescape because that's what they want to play. It's free and they can play it at the library.

Speaking of fee, there's another barrier to entry. PS3-only and fee-based? Or is it one of those free deals?

I'm all for more good games, I mean...there's literally zero chance I'd ever play this, but more good games is a good thing overall. I just don't see this one lasting very long, if it even sees the light of day.

[eldaec]

The communication thing is a red herring.

You are going to be playing PC-diku-retread-43887 using VOIP in a few years anyway, whether you like or not.

Keyboards will probably be needed anyway to maintain anything close to the variety of gameplay in a long running MMOG, in particular if you want to include an economic game. but nothing prevents anyone sticking a wireless keyboard on the side of a console.

The real downer about moving it off of PCs is that you have to design around shitty console technical specs.

Plus MMOGs often live longer than consoles. If this PS3 thing is going to me a long term MMOG it's going to have to hurry the fuck up and launch, or it'll find itself with only a couple of years till PS4 launch.

[Rasix]

Plus MMOGs often live longer than consoles. If this PS3 thing is going to me a long term MMOG it's going to have to hurry the fuck up and launch, or it'll find itself with only a couple of years till PS4 launch.

PS2 is backwards compatible.  PS3 is backwards compatible.  No reason to think PS4 won't be until they say it isn't.

[schild]

Plus MMOGs often live longer than consoles. If this PS3 thing is going to me a long term MMOG it's going to have to hurry the fuck up and launch, or it'll find itself with only a couple of years till PS4 launch.

PS2 is backwards compatible.  PS3 is backwards compatible.  No reason to think PS4 won't be until they say it isn't.

Rasix, that post was so ridiculous it didn't deserve a response.

[Rasix]

I was in a meeting and waiting on my turn to present.    

[schild]

Heh.

[Lantyssa]

Many people continue to use a PS2 as well, they are still produced, and cheap to buy.  The install base is still larger than anything out there and one day a next gen console will hold that claim.

If people like the game, they'll be able to play.  It's a silly argument on many levels.

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

Most people I know do not have consoles and even if this game turns out to be robot-Jesus on a stick they are not going to buy a console just to play it. And the argument that there are so many great games to play on a console does not fly because if that was the case to them.......... well they would allready own a console.

The biggest reason for me is that when I buy a PC game it works on my computer, when you want a game on a console you have to make sure it's for the console you have or you are not going to play it. Not everyone is like Schild and has EVERY console platform.

[Nonentity]

There was some info about this that was floating around, from a podcast or something.

For 'equipment', you'll go on a mission and rescue a team member, like a scientist who is good at making helicopters or something. Then, when you bring him back to your base, you'll tell him to make you a helicopter of a certain kind.

You'll then get calls and stuff from your team members saying things like 'well, we can make it on time but it'll be slow, or I can make a deal with the Russians and get it done early'. But if he goes and talks to the Russians, there's a chance you'll get a call back with like 'we have your man, pay us ransom to get him back'. So you can pay the ransom or go on a mission to get him back.

I thought that aspect sounded really cool.

[Yegolev]

The biggest reason for me is that when I buy a PC game it works on my computer, when you want a game on a console you have to make sure it's for the console you have or you are not going to play it. Not everyone is like Schild and has EVERY console platform.

Let's abstract this.

The biggest reason for me is that when I buy a _____ game it works on my _____, when you want a game on a _____ you have to make sure it's for the ______ you have or you are not going to play it.

See if you can fill in those blanks such that it proves everyone else is an idiot.  My first suggestion is 1) PS3, 2) PS3, 3) PC, 4) PC.

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

So having a few different console platforms is a good thing? ?You never had a game you wanted to play but could not because it would not work on the platform you own?

[d4rkj3di]

schildaemish are right about the consoles being the future of MMOs. If there were a well done game, with an intuitive UI, good graphics and it came out for a system that had a great number of quality single and multiplayer games, I would get it. Unfortunately, right now the PS3 just doesn't have the number of other games available to make me start the slobbering. I don't own a 360 either. Maybe if Conan is worth a shit, I might look into getting one.

Comfortable couch catassing is the wave of the future. I will now call it "3C gaming" from now on.

[Yegolev]

Yeah of course, that happens all the time, like how I wanted to see the intro movie for Oblivion but my GeForce 6800 couldn't play it.  A few hundred dollars later and I can.  Or I could go back to stories of trying to play Ultima VII on a 386SX with 2MB of RAM.

My point is just that you are limited in your selection no matter what you have, and if you really want to be able to play any game ever, then you will just have to do what schild and I (try to) do, which is own one of everything.  In the case of PC games, you know you have to keep your shit updated all the time or you fall behind.  I even have a 468DX and DOS 6.0 on floppies laying around just in case, but I'm a dumbass.  Exult works great.

The funny thing is that the PS3 has much better BC than a Windows PC, when really it should not be so.

[HaemishM]

Whats a voice font?

Yeah I did, but it ("A voice font is a computer-generated voice that can be controlled by specifying parameters such as speed and pitch and made to pronounce text input") didn't seem to make sense in this context. Just wondering if maybe he meant some kind of voice masquerading function and if this stuff is technically practical yet.

I believe you have it surrounded.

EDIT: And to attempt to NOT be a wiseass, I wasn't talking about text-to-speech. The keyboard/chat box is holding MMOG's back and has been for years. I bitched about it when WoW first came out and it's only gotten worse. These aren't text MUDs anymore, they actually require you to look at things beyond your combat spam. Chat bubbles was a good first step, group/raid-based VOIP is the next step. Adding voice fonts on top of that would be great.

Voice fonts, in theory, mask your voice so that nasally nerds like myself could speak and it would sound like Darth Vader, or a woman or whatever font I wanted to use. I think Xbox Live had them years ago. The key is making the fonts good, and with not overwhelming people with VOIP intrusions. For instance, you wouldn't hear everyone's conversation in general chat while walking through a city. You might hear a mumble mumble mumble of ambient noise and see icons or indications of someone's avatar talking onscreen. The icon might even indicate if they were begging/bartering/chatting so that item sellers could put out their shingle. Clicking on that person or selecting them in some way would allow you to hear that person's general channel if you wished and if they were allowing their general chatter to be broadcast. Of course, grouping with anyone would allow all in the group to use VOIP to you and hear your VOIP. Groups and raid groups could even be set up to allow moderators/leaders to set priority on who could talk over whom.

Oh, and the game should be on a Wii.  :-D

[Nonentity]

Not to derail this thread or anything, but if I'm not mistaken, from that same batch of information I got, it's going to be PS3 AND PC.

So, there you go.

[Venkman]

So having a few different console platforms is a good thing? ?You never had a game you wanted to play but could not because it would not work on the platform you own?

Err, what? If the game says "PS2" on the box, it works on PS2. If you want it to work on PS3, make sure to look it up. I'm not sure if the PS3 supports PS2 100%, or if they have the same problem that Xbox 360 had. I'm too disinterested to look it up because I haven't bought a console for myself in, err, four generations I think it is now.

Meanwhile, on a PC, you're taking your chances. Only in the last year could you have something approaching a 90%+ chance of having a true plug-n-play experience. And that's only because of the years prior it took for some forms of tech to stabilize and for WinXP to become ready for primetime. Which, by the way, is right on the heals of Vista launching and forcing all sorts of fancing things that'll only result in stuff breaking again. And I say this as someone who can get around PCs quite fine. Take someone off the street on their five year old hand-me-downm and ask them to run LoTRO.

I also find it funny when people here say "most people I know have PCs". You're posting, frequently, in an MMO forum at a site where a lot of us came from MMOs and MMO sites before it, because you're that into MMOs. Of course you're smack square in the middle of the PC demographic. MMOs are young on consoles. Maybe that'll change, maybe not. It's not the technology of the unit. More than enough power. It's the entire UI and the user expectations rolled into one. I say the AAA killer-apps of the next generation of consoles will be MMO experiences though.

And that's a good thing because unless they take too much advantage of being connected to patch servers, buying something for a console pretty much means it'll work. Not sure how long it'll be in the post-Vista world before we'll be able to say that again about PCs.

[sam, an eggplant]

True enough, but PC market penetration is unquestionably higher than consoles. Everybody has a PC. EVERYBODY. The vast majority are equipped with horrid integrated intel graphics and are infested with spyware working overtime as zombies sending out viagra spam for some guy named Dimitry in Vladivostok, so they aren't terribly suited for playing hot new games, but there's absolutely no question that PCs win.

WoW is polished until it gleams, addicting, fun to play and all that, no doubt, but a great deal of its popularity is due to the fact that the embarrassing beige pile of goatshit emachine your mom bought for $300 at officemax in 2003 with a $200 mail in rebate for signing up for MSN can run it just fine.

[eldaec]

Most people I know do not have consoles and even if this game turns out to be robot-Jesus on a stick they are not going to buy a console just to play it. And the argument that there are so many great games to play on a console does not fly because if that was the case to them.......... well they would allready own a console.

This stuff is an insult to the fine art of pointlessly ragging on consoles.

More people own PCs.

But more people who want to play games own gimped PCs that can't be upgraded consoles.

That is why, when you walk into EB (or locale appropriate alternative), there is a massive great console section, and a teeny weeny PC section.

PCs may be a higher spec platform, but they are quite obviously less popular for gaming than consoles.

[Venkman]

There are more DVD players in the world than the cumulative total of all of this and the last generation of consoles. That doesn't mean anything either. And designing games for that "platform" is almost worse than PCs. You don't have the benefit of a single UI provider owning 95% of your market, and that's offset by the absolute expectation of how the things work.

Anyway, the point is that consoles sell more games than PCs. There's no disputing that. It's because of the consumers, the ease of that platform to them, because the entire industry has shifted to that, and because Daddy ain't giving up his rig to his kids just so they can play games on it. Particularly since he's probably playing on it. Because he's been doing so since Zork and Wizardry. There's a reason why the average age of a typical AAA-calibre MMORPG player only goes up.

[Margalis]

There are far more chairs in the world than PCs. I demand a chair-based game - musical chairs for example. Seriously, where in the world can you not play musical chairs?

Or maybe a game based around dirt. Dirt has very high market penetration.

[Gutboy Barrelhouse]

I am just saying when you buy a Chevy it's not like you can't drive interstate 80 because that was built for Fords and Toyota only. 

[Fordel]

...and unless you have a race car, you aren't going to be able to drive in the Indy 500. I don't see your point? As everyone else has already said, because a game is for the PC, doesn't mean every PC can run it. It is far simpler and more reliable to know that when you buy a game with a 360 logo on the cover, it will work on your 360. It's also far simpler to know how to upgrade from a Xbox to a 360, then say to figure out if my current board will support the new graphics card etc... required to play the new PC game.

[hal]

It begs a larger question, and it is comming. Of course I don't know when. And the question is general PC's  for general purposes vers specific computers for specific purposes. I can come at this industry from a few different angles. As a EE doing max min analsis to a drafter using autocad to a gamer. They require very different machines to do well. Productivy is every thing.

[taolurker]

There's a distinct lack of info about this game availible via Sony, or Sony press releases, but there are articles in the newest Game Informer and PC Gamer magazine. I know that everyone in this thread has been saying PS3 Only, well, that doesn't seem to be the case, especially if PC Gamer is showing me a preview... In a copy I bought showing a Penny Arcade game preview. Also, I think IIRC the Game Informer article (which I saw at a friend's) said PS3 and PC? I'll need to recheck that.

I can say that the PC Gamer "preview" has a Winter 2007 release date?

/shrug