LOTRO TAXI to victory lasted two weeks

[Signe]

Can we start another fast food digression to throw this monstrosity back into it's sorely missed grave?

There aren't even enough brains in here for the zombies to bother with it

ONE MORE ZOMBIE COMMENT FROM YOU AND I SWEAR I WILL EAT YOUR FACE!!!

[Chimpy]

Can we start another fast food digression to throw this monstrosity back into it's sorely missed grave?

There aren't even enough brains in here for the zombies to bother with it

ONE MORE ZOMBIE COMMENT FROM YOU AND I SWEAR I WILL EAT YOUR FACE!!!

You obviously are not mad enough, as you took the time to put spaces in that sentence 

[Yegolev]

LotRO is not nearly as combat-centric as WoW.  I'm good with that.  Once I got bored with fighting in WoW, there wasn't anything else to do.  LotRO has other things for me to do when I get tired of combat, plus it's got a slower pace that I appreciate.  Opinions, keke.

T-shirts for sale! T-shirts for sale! Three Unique Slogans to choose from, including "Your favorite MMORPG sucks, newb!", "Your opinion is WRONG" and "Stop disagreeing with my opinions, jerk!".

I don't know what that meant, but it made me laugh.

[Morat20]

T-shirts for sale! T-shirts for sale! Three Unique Slogans to choose from, including "Your favorite MMORPG sucks, newb!", "Your opinion is WRONG" and "Stop disagreeing with my opinions, jerk!".

I don't know what that meant, but it made me laugh.

The three basic arguments that show up when discussing which MMORPG's are "better".

The MMORPG you like sucks, and you're a newb for liking it. Variant: It's for 'casuals' or 'carebear'.
Your opinion on any given MMORPG is wrong, because you are a newb/moron/carebear.
You're only arguing with me to be a dick, because even a newb/moron/carebear like you couldn't disagree with my awesome statements.

:)

[Venkman]

so you are saying because you are level 50 in lotr I'm new? Levelling in LOTR is a joke, and mindless grind like it is in just about every other mmo.

The problem is the blanket statements like:

All MMOs are a grind
LoTRO Combat sucks
<it's all> mindless and boring

People normally use things like "in my opinion". And those conversant in MMOs generally have long since learned that what's not fun for them may actually be fun for others. This is how you get games with high retention (but low subscriptions, and much MUCH lower overhead) like EVE versus those super expensive yet mostly one-dimensional titles like WoW.

What it sounds like you want is a game with as responsive a combat system but not called "WoW", because you've played that to death.

You will not easily find that here. No other game does WoW's combat as well as WoW in terms of responsiveness and pace except maybe CoX, but that game's got its own issues.

But to rip on every single other game in a forum populated by fans of them without even asking what they like about them is hubris.

[cmlancas]

Chimpy, are there places in the south where one can get grilled squirrel?

[Chimpy]

Chimpy, are there places in the south where one can get grilled squirrel?

No idea.

I don't live in the south.

[Signe]

You must live south of somewhere.

[cmlancas]

You must live south of somewhere.

For example, Signe lives south of the Zombie Headquarters.

[Phred]

so you are saying because you are level 50 in lotr I'm new?

I am saying that MMORPGs aren't different enough to justify the crap you wrote, unless you are inexperienced about the genre. You basically described any non-caster class in any DIKU so far.

Still, you felt comfortable enough to go all out on the Champion class you "totally understood" in a whopping 16 levels. (So yes, I am saying you don't know what you are talking about)

The champion was not fun to play. [...] I totally understand what the champion is trying to be. It just isn't much fun at being it.

So long for the most popular class in the whole game.

Please. The champion is the most 1 dimensional class in the game, as well as being known as the noobling class. By L16 you're going to have seen 90% of the skills you'll still be using at 50. Almost any class is well fleshed out at 20 but at 16 the champion already has all it's subtle features (lol) exposed for the player to see. About all he'd miss is the much desided (by who?) tanking features


I

think you, as many others, just don't like LotRO combat (I hate the enque-ing too). But that has nothing to do with classes.
And honestly, I think after your "5 level 70" in WoW, I am pretty sure you'll never feel that kind of excitement anymore, ever. I could be wrong, but that kind of "burning out" never heal.


EDIT: added a quote and a few parenthesis.

I don't like the qnque-ing either but I can see champions finding it even more annoying than I do on my guardian.

[Phred]

The champion role in LOTRO is AE dps. His whole existence is about killing waves of non elite quickly. Later on, he gets the possibility to tank a bit more if he equips the right traits.

As for the rest, it's a matter of taste. No point in arguing about it.

While the devs appear to claim this is what the class is designed around the whole basis of how fervour works directly contradicts it. Stripping all the character's defences away may seem like a good idea if you don't want a soloing god but trying to keep a champion or two alive while they ea anything with more hp than bunch of L50 bird mobs is going to be fun. Guardian ae taunt isnt gonna help much, with it's max targets 4 limit compared to blade storm and blade wall's max r5. Hopefully that new spell they get to dump all their agro onto someone else is fast enough casting that it doesn't get dropped on the floor by the ui the way my self heal seems to every second chance I try to use it. :)

[Falconeer]

Please. The champion is the most 1 dimensional class in the game, as well as being known as the noobling class. By L16 you're going to have seen 90% of the skills you'll still be using at 50. Almost any class is well fleshed out at 20 but at 16 the champion already has all it's subtle features (lol) exposed for the player to see. About all he'd miss is the much desided (by who?) tanking features

"Noob class", I agree (I just said popular, and noobs are always popular).
"1 dimensional class" just expose your delusion as a mmorpg player if you really think classes in this dumb games have more than 1 dimension.

Obviously not mentioning the fact that yes, as a champion you can DPS for 50 levels, or tank effectively for about 49. That *could* count for at least a couple of dimensions (If these games were actually multidimensional on the combat side).

EDIT: My biggest gripe with the champion class is the lack of "oomph". My hard hitting skills produce a flimsy "swiish.." instead of a well needed "sbrang!" or "crush!". I love the audio depratment of LotRO but I really wonder what the hell were they thinking with the sounds of some skills. The champion 3-strikes skill is unbelievable, it does the sound of 3-misses. That really bugs me.

[Riggswolfe]

Champion is a weird class in that any noob can play it and do decent damage. But a truly skilled player can be a DPS God with a champion. I can tear through things quicker than equal level hunters if I use my skills right. My only issue with the champion so far is that as I get higher in level my survivability seems to actually go down.

[Nonentity]

omgomg

My Signe smiley I made is a regular smiley now!





SEE SIGNE
WE BELIEVE

[cmlancas]

SEE SIGNE
WE BELIEVE

...IN YOUR ZOMBIE NATION.

[Count Nerfedalot]

LotR is an interesting beast to analyze, as it seems unusually difficult to pin down why any one person likes or dislikes it.  The game definitely has it's share of issues, but even WoW has some issues, hidden though they might be behind the glare of the highly polished surface.  I like LotR OK, it spite of its issues.  My wife on the other hand doesn't quite despise it, but definitely dislikes it, and not merely because of its issues.

The best analysis we can make of why is, she dislikes it because it's so bland, and because crafting is seriously gimped.  I like it because I can wander around solo and choose my pace, killing or avoiding most things as I wish while still getting to experience most (but not all) of the level apropriate content for my character.

 Each of those reasons could be discussed in detail, but the one I think most relevant to (some parts) of the discussion is the charge of it being bland.  That actually applies to several areas, but one in particular is heroics.  No class seems to have much in the way of true change-the-course-of-battle-to-save-the-day abilities.  We call these "get out of jail free cards".  There are some abilities that seem to have been intended as such, but they just don't make a big enough difference.  Sometimes you can salvage a barely lost fight into a barely won one, but pretty much never can you completely reverse your fortunes from a holy-cow-theres-no-way-we-can-pull-this-off fiasco into a wow-how-did-we-manage-that miracle.  If the tide of battle turns against you, you're pretty much toast if you can't run away, simple as that.

[shiznitz]

so you are saying because you are level 50 in lotr I'm new? Levelling in LOTR is a joke, and mindless grind like it is in just about every other mmo.

The problem is the blanket statements like:

All MMOs are a grind
LoTRO Combat sucks
<it's all> mindless and boring

People normally use things like "in my opinion". And those conversant in MMOs generally have long since learned that what's not fun for them may actually be fun for others. This is how you get games with high retention (but low subscriptions, and much MUCH lower overhead) like EVE versus those super expensive yet mostly one-dimensional titles like WoW.

What it sounds like you want is a game with as responsive a combat system but not called "WoW", because you've played that to death.

You will not easily find that here. No other game does WoW's combat as well as WoW in terms of responsiveness and pace except maybe CoX, but that game's got its own issues.

But to rip on every single other game in a forum populated by fans of them without even asking what they like about them is hubris.

I don't like "IMO." It should be assumed unless someone is blatantly stating a fact. Generlaizations about a game or genre are almost always an opinion. If people read critiques with this in mind, it would save a lot of flame for when it was really warranted.

[Roac]

Darniaq:  People shouldn't be assholes on the internet
shiznitz:  People *are* assholes on the internet.

Check and check.

[Venkman]

Nah, I actually agree with shiz's point. All of this stuff begins with IMO by nature of what it is. However, unfortunately, most people don't insert "IMO" into everything said by someone they don't know. As such, it's simlpy safer for new posters to use IMO in their posts for a time.

[zubey]

Each of those reasons could be discussed in detail, but the one I think most relevant to (some parts) of the discussion is the charge of it being bland.  That actually applies to several areas, but one in particular is heroics.  No class seems to have much in the way of true change-the-course-of-battle-to-save-the-day abilities.  We call these "get out of jail free cards".  There are some abilities that seem to have been intended as such, but they just don't make a big enough difference.  Sometimes you can salvage a barely lost fight into a barely won one, but pretty much never can you completely reverse your fortunes from a holy-cow-theres-no-way-we-can-pull-this-off fiasco into a wow-how-did-we-manage-that miracle.  If the tide of battle turns against you, you're pretty much toast if you can't run away, simple as that.

For what it's worth, I've had quite a few "reversal of fortune" moments with my burglar.   He's got crowd control plus the ability to start Fellowship Maneuvers (aka Conjunctions), which can really pull a fight out of the toilet when it's circling the bowl.  For instance, with coordination, a well-executed FM can do a combined group heal, group power restoration, and massive AoE dmg.

Soloing, he's got some neat tricks too, such as an ability to break himself out of a stun which puts a big heal on himself and gives him a 30 second 50% buff to his ability to Evade.  There are other examples too, but that one in particular can turn a fight from a certain loss to an easy win.

Maybe some classes experience the phenomenon you mention, but my burglar doesn't.

[Hound]

My "feign death" has pulled my ass from the fire more than once. At 43 I am still learning when and where certain skills are best used..

[Venkman]

I have two different fears as a Minstrel, evil and Undead. I rarely use them, to ensure the timers are up for when I need them. In groups, I've had a bunch of oh-shit moments that allowed me to go from healing to kill-that-stuff-fast mode.

At the same time, my last incarnation was as a Fire Mage in WoW. In eight years I have yet to play a more effective class at pulling success from the jaws of defeat. I've had people literally /tell me "holy crap" when I've let loose with the timers, particularly once BC geared us up something fierce.

Coming from that to LoTRO Minstrel (which is akin to an incomplete EQ1 Bard), it's quite a leap. But LoTRO isn't "hit auto-attack and watch" either*.

* Of course, I've never played anything that was literally like that outside of maybe when I was grinding Swordmanship in UO

[Phred]

Each of those reasons could be discussed in detail, but the one I think most relevant to (some parts) of the discussion is the charge of it being bland.  That actually applies to several areas, but one in particular is heroics.  No class seems to have much in the way of true change-the-course-of-battle-to-save-the-day abilities.  We call these "get out of jail free cards".  There are some abilities that seem to have been intended as such, but they just don't make a big enough difference.  Sometimes you can salvage a barely lost fight into a barely won one, but pretty much never can you completely reverse your fortunes from a holy-cow-theres-no-way-we-can-pull-this-off fiasco into a wow-how-did-we-manage-that miracle.  If the tide of battle turns against you, you're pretty much toast if you can't run away, simple as that.

For what it's worth, I've had quite a few "reversal of fortune" moments with my burglar.   He's got crowd control plus the ability to start Fellowship Maneuvers (aka Conjunctions), which can really pull a fight out of the toilet when it's circling the bowl.  For instance, with coordination, a well-executed FM can do a combined group heal, group power restoration, and massive AoE dmg.

Soloing, he's got some neat tricks too, such as an ability to break himself out of a stun which puts a big heal on himself and gives him a 30 second 50% buff to his ability to Evade.  There are other examples too, but that one in particular can turn a fight from a certain loss to an easy win.

Maybe some classes experience the phenomenon you mention, but my burglar doesn't.

I think what he is calling heroics are actually fellowship maneuvers in LoTR. At least that's the context I get from from rereading the quoted part above. And believe me, it's not opinion when I say some of the complex fm's are fully capable of pulling your balls from the fire right quickly. I haven't sat down and read the list of FM's yet as my bugler hasn't grouped enough to need to know that stuff yet, but one of the high end once like GBRGBR ( or is it GRBGRB?) kiicks serious ass as it heals the party full, leaving a big healing dot on everyone, plus full power, a big smash of dmg and 5 or 6 ghost pets running around. The only real problem with it that I can see is that the only group capable of getting in a situation where it'd help a lot would be completely unable to trigger it. One of those groups that can maybe manage an all red if the wind is right.
 

[Der Helm]

This has me interested how the Fellowship Maneuvers work. So, how DO they work ?

[Hound]

Chimpy, are there places in the south where one can get grilled squirrel?

My Local McDonalds offers a McSquirrel burger. If you want to go fancy at the 7/11 you can get a 7 course dinner. A six pack of Pabst and a Slim Jim.

[Slayerik]

This has me interested how the Fellowship Maneuvers work. So, how DO they work ?

http://www.thebrasse.com/lotro/fellowship-maneuvers.php

"Fellowship Maneuvers can occur randomly in any battle against a Signature or Elite creature, although group members must be at least level 12 in order to participate in the process.

In addition to random, unpredictable triggers, which can be very hard to act on in time, burglars, and to a lesser extent Guardians, can begin a Fellowship Maneuver cycle. A group can be more prepared for these. For this reason, it is best to have the Burglar (or Guardian) calling the FM series, provided they know what they are doing, hehe.

BURGLAR FM TRIGGERS:

Exploit Opening (level 12) - This stuns your target, creating an FM opportunity.
Trip (level 28) - You can knock an enemy down, opening up an FM round. Trip can only be used while stealthed.
Exposed Throat - After using your Double-edged Strike, this attack will inflict high damage, with a chance of creating an opportunity to use an FM (info according to lotro.com – I have not used this in game yet).
Marbles – These are a crafted item rather than a skill. You can use marbles to throw a creature off balance, allowing an opening for a Fellowship Maneuver. Use of marbles requires the burglar to be trained in the skill "Clever Devices" at level 20. There are three marbles recipes available to Weaponsmiths:
Small Bag of Marbles (small chance of success when thrown)
Medium Bag of Marbles (better chance of success)
Large Bag of Marbles (best chance of success)
GUARDIAN FM TRIGGERS:

Turn the Tables (level 36) - Knock down a target after being knocked down yourself, and open an FM opportunity.
To the King - A powerful attack against an enemy, triggered after the use of Overwhelm or Thrust (these rely on a successful parry). The creature may be knocked down, resulting in an FM opening (info according to lotro.com – I have not used this in game yet).
When the FM event is triggered, a Fellowship Skill wheel appears on each member's screen. If you are not directly targeting the mob, you will first see a target/bullseye symbol. Click on it to participate in the process and it will cause you to automatically join in on the same target.

This is where the coordination aspect comes in, along with a healthy dose of confusion. Upon triggering the FM wheel, the creature is stunned, allowing time to perform the moves. NOT enough time to look up this info, so please read it in advance!

If you fail in a FM attempt, the mob is immune to further attempts for one minute.

The Fellowship Maneuver Process
A Fellowship Maneuver is triggered.
The targeted creature is stunned.
The caller should designate which move your group will try. Remember to have your groupmates assigned to a number in advance, so that they know they are #3, for example.
The first player will select a color by clicking on it. That player is now unable to attack with auto-attack or special skills, until the FM attempt is completed. If he moves, the FM is cancelled.
The color chosen by the first player will appear in the FM queue.
The second player will now click on their color, and on down the line until all players have chosen the appropriate color.
The Fellowship Maneuver completes and the effect goes off.
You congratulate yourself on hitting the right color at the right time and looking like a brilliant fellow.
Wheels on the bus go round and round.
 The Fellowship Maneuver Skill Wheel
It helps to understand what each of the four colors do:

ENT'S STRENGTH (Red) is a straightforward melee attack. As others add more red to the stack, it does more damage. At the 6th level it becomes an AOE attack with a radius of 10 meters.
Burglars and Minstrels must be within melee range in order to partake in setting a red icon. - Used alone, red equals instant damage – use it when you want to kill something fast.

EAGLE'S CRY (Green) is a morale (health) heal that targets yourself at the opening level. At the 2nd level it becomes an area-of-effect AOE (Area of Effect) heal over time. At the 5th level it adds a cure fear effect, and at 6th level it cures wound effects in addition to fear.
- If your party is running low on morale (health), and especially if you have no healer, use lots of green.

SPIDER'S GUILE (Yellow) is a combination of melee attack and damage over time (DoT) effect. At the 5th and 6th stage it also applies a 15-second effect that will drain the target's power and slow the creature's attack and movement speed after the countdown finishes.
Burglars and Minstrels must be within melee range in order to partake in setting a yellow icon. - Yellow is great to use against creatures with a huge number of hitpoints – let your DoT eat away at them. Over time, it tends to do more damage than a red attack.

STALLION'S SPIRIT (Blue) begins as a self-only power heal. At the 2nd level it is an AOE power heal. At the 5th level, Stallion's Spirit calls forth the shade of a fallen warrior to fight alongside you for a short time. At the 6th level, a more powerful shade appears. - Blue is very useful if your party is in a long fight and is running low on power.
Individually, the colors are strong and useful (as well as simple), but it is when you begin to combine them in longer chains that they really begin to pay off.

"

[CmdrSlack]

IIRC, the "uber" FM is GRRRRB or it's BRRRRG, I forget which goes first (blue or green) and whether it matters.

[grunk]

There is not enough content in this game. Not enough depth. This game follows the WoW, give it to em now without any work. No discipline. WoW had the BG/Faction treadmill to keep people going. They had the 40 man lol-zerg-raids to keep em going.

WTF does lotro have to keep people playing? It aint the PVMP. It aint the traits…

They will not be able to keep the customers they have due to the game model they are following. They will not add new customers because of the new games that are coming out. Then you got older games that have expansions coming out, graphic updates ETC.


Grunk
75 Dark Knight
Remora

[Endie]

There is not enough content in this game. Not enough depth. This game follows the WoW, give it to em now without any work. No discipline. WoW had the BG/Faction treadmill to keep people going. They had the 40 man lol-zerg-raids to keep em going.

WTF does lotro have to keep people playing? It aint the PVMP. It aint the traits…

They will not be able to keep the customers they have due to the game model they are following. They will not add new customers because of the new games that are coming out. Then you got older games that have expansions coming out, graphic updates ETC.

You forgot to witter on about why all of these are so much better - nay, perfect - in FFXI.

[Bunk]

I can't believe I'm going to respond to this guy seriously...

Oh, and congratulations on your improved sentence structure this time.

I can't really agree with you here on the whole adding new customers thing. They will add customers the same way every other variation of the genre does - word of mouth, players migrating from game to game, and eventually expansions.

What keeps people that are there now playing? I can't say I know for sure, since I didn't play past beta, but I'm going to assume its a combination of a few things. People enjoy playing in a world whose lore is interesting to them, they enjoy playing with their friends, and from what I've heard they actually are enjoying the game. As to the future, Turbine has one of the best records period for adding new content and updates to their games.

You seem to be caught up on the idea that if the game isn't hard enough or doesn't have enough grind, people won't play it. Well, not everyone plays these games the way you do bud. There are other playstyles out there. I played UO and AC for about five years each, because they didn't focus on grind or mandatory grouping. They let me log in and play when I wanted for however long i wanted, and I still accomplished things. Good luck with that in your game. With WoW, I played several characters up to mid levels, but never had a guy reach 60. Why? Raiding held zero interest for me - I can't commit six hour stretches to play. I played it because I enjoyed trying new classes and running new quests I'd never done.

[Slayerik]

I can't believe I'm going to respond to this guy seriously...

Oh, and congratulations on your improved sentence structure this time.

I can't really agree with you here on the whole adding new customers thing. They will add customers the same way every other variation of the genre does - word of mouth, players migrating from game to game, and eventually expansions.

What keeps people that are there now playing? I can't say I know for sure, since I didn't play past beta, but I'm going to assume its a combination of a few things. People enjoy playing in a world whose lore is interesting to them, they enjoy playing with their friends, and from what I've heard they actually are enjoying the game. As to the future, Turbine has one of the best records period for adding new content and updates to their games.

You seem to be caught up on the idea that if the game isn't hard enough or doesn't have enough grind, people won't play it. Well, not everyone plays these games the way you do bud. There are other playstyles out there. I played UO and AC for about five years each, because they didn't focus on grind or mandatory grouping. They let me log in and play when I wanted for however long i wanted, and I still accomplished things. Good luck with that in your game. With WoW, I played several characters up to mid levels, but never had a guy reach 60. Why? Raiding held zero interest for me - I can't commit six hour stretches to play. I played it because I enjoyed trying new classes and running new quests I'd never done.

Bunk = Grunk

heh

[WindupAtheist]

There is not enough content in this game. Not enough depth. This game follows the WoW, give it to em now without any work. No discipline.

Fuck you.  You are an evolutionary dead end in the MMO gene pool.  No one wants your "disciplined" game, and no one will bother making one ever again.  That era of the MMO genre ended the moment WoW cracked a million subscriptions.  Go hang yourself with a rope of soiled poopsocks.

Grunk
75 Dark Knight
Remora

And fuck your fucking dark knight, you humpbacked catass degenerate fucking loser.  Get your ass over to FoH or somewhere else you belong with this fucking dumbass sig of yours.  Go apply your "discipline" to something that matters.  The rest of the universe likes it's games to be fun.

Wait, sigs don't appear in quotes.  You fucking typed that by hand.  Jesus.

[Tmon]

Things that are keeping me around...

1.  I can log in and play for 30 minutes and get something done
2.  There's plenty of places to explore and things to try out
3.  I'm enjoying working my way through the story
4.  They have added more content in the first 3 months than WoW did the first year
5.  You can do most of the content without a 'perfect' group
6.  Most important I still find the game fun

I still notice a fair number of true newbies in the starting areas around Bree so people are still buying and checking out the game.  I expect that in the end this will be an AC1 niche type game and while AC1 left me cold I can see why people who liked it stuck around so long.  Regular free content additions are kind of nice.

[Sky]

This game follows the WoW, give it to em now without any work. No discipline.

Do you understand gaming or fun?

If I'm working, I'm getting paid. I play games to relax and have phun.

[Endie]

There is not enough content in this game. Not enough depth. This game follows the WoW, give it to em now without any work. No discipline.

Fuck you.  You are an evolutionary dead end in the MMO gene pool.  No one wants your "disciplined" game, and no one will bother making one ever again.  That era of the MMO genre ended the moment WoW cracked a million subscriptions.

Except that it didn't, because they tried again with Vanguard.  That went well.