Help me build my next PC

[Azazel]

I've decided that instead of buying the bits piecemeal and assembling the thing myself this time, I'll buy the whole damn thing from the place where i get 90% of the bits from anyway (they're pretty much the cheapest place in town), and pay them the few bucks to assemble the thing and make sure it works.

I'm throwing it open to you guys, as while I kind of have an idea on hardware, and my nephew is also very helpful, neither of us is a patch on the combined might of f13 when it comes to this shit.


This is going to be a gaming computer, but I also intend to do a little bit of video editing with it. Not much though, so I imagine anything that can hendle today's games nicely will be able to edit decently.

I can't afford bleeding edge, so I'm going for the point of best bang/buck.

I know enough about many of the bits to know what I want in general terms, but when it comes to the specifics of current level of mobos, video cards, processors and ram, my knowledge falls down a bit. (a lot)

So, the things I definately want:

• A good power supply
  300-500gb HDD space
  2gb RAM at least
  Digital out on the video card
  Decent amount of video RAM
  A good processor fan without going OTT
  Extra fans if needed
  A legit, new OEM version of XP
  DVD Burner (pref. Pioneer)
  A seperate DVD-ROM
  
  
  Things I don't care either way about:
  
• Dual Processors
  AMD or Intel
  ATI or NVIDIA
  Sound Card or Onboard (super sound is not a factor in a room with 2 other PCs going)
  

.
My budget is AU$1400.
You'll be working with Australian dollars, which are kind of like Canadian dollars, except they buy less since we don't have the US just down the road.


ONWARD![/list]

[Trippy]

You are in luck, Intel is releasing some new chipsets which means anything you buy right now is already obsolete and anything you buy with the new chipsets will be buggy.

[Trippy]

Do you need a monitor?

[Ironwood]

You are in luck, Intel is releasing some new chipsets which means anything you buy right now is already obsolete and anything you buy with the new chipsets will be buggy.

Green ?

[Trippy]

Yes, though after playing around with the configurator (which BTW is a POS since it doesn't show prices in the list) I now know that $1200AUS doesn't buy you much, especially given the markup at that site compared to something like Newegg.com so that new chipset stuff would mostly likely be out of his price range.

[Azazel]

Don't need a monitor, I'll be getting that a couple of weeks after the machine. And not worrying about mouse and keyboard. Or speakers.

It will need to be chunky enough to support a decent WS monitor though.

On the topic of costs - using something like newegg simply isn't an option - shipping from the US to .au would be immendely expensive, and if something goes wrong with a component and I need to return it, I'm fucked.

As scary as it may seem, that site's store is pretty much the best deal/prices around in my city, and by extension, probably one of the best in the country. - as I've said before in various threads, we get hosed on prices for most stuff in this country.

After playing around with the prices and that site's comp builder a little more, I'm thinking perhaps the way to go for this machine would be to aim for the best bang/buck ratio on the processor for aroundabout the AU$200 mark. AMD seems to get you more in that vein. Honestly though, I don't know or understand enough about them.

Bleeding and even Cutting edge is out of my price range I'm pretty sure.

But I think I'll work out a way to up the budget to $1600, including the WINXP, so hopefully that can help a bit.

[Trippy]

For $1232.00 you are looking at something like this (not shown are Win XP Pro OEM and Assembly charge):

[Azazel]

here's a series of possibly-stupid questions (but, well, I don't know the answers):

What's the difference between IDE optical drives and SATA ones? Data transfer rate?

Is that the difference between the Lite-On Combos and the Lite-On Super Allwrite drives?

Since I like having a second optical drive in my computers, should I get a LiteOn drive? (thinking of a LiteOn since they come with Nero, etc, while the Pioneers are no-software OEM). 90% of all burning will be done via the Pioneer, though.

Since I've decided to add a few hundred dollars onto the budget, I'd like to upgrade a couple of the choices:
AMD ATHLON 64 X2 (AM2 65W) 4800+

more HDD space - do I go for
WD 500Gb 7200 16Mb Cache SATA 2 Hard Disk : $190.30
or 2x of:
WD 320Gb 7200 16Mb Cache SATA 2 Hard Disk: $105.60

add:
Basic FDD: $15

and since I've upped the budget I may as well include
Microsoft Basic Black Value Pack Keyboard and Mouse PS/2 (OEM): $27.50


Will the stock CPU fan be good enough?
Should I bump up the CPU to a faster one again?
I mean, I don't necessarily want to go out of my way to spend the full $1600, but on the other hand, I'll be using the computer for a long time, and so an extra day's pay or even two are a worthwhile investment. ($1600 is basically 3 weeks pay for me after tax, though)

thoughts?
(and a huge thank you!)

[Trippy]

here's a series of possibly-stupid questions (but, well, I don't know the answers):

What's the difference between IDE optical drives and SATA ones? Data transfer rate?

Cable.

Is that the difference between the Lite-On Combos and the Lite-On Super Allwrite drives?

No, the Super Allwrite can handle DVD-RAM discs.

Since I like having a second optical drive in my computers, should I get a LiteOn drive? (thinking of a LiteOn since they come with Nero, etc, while the Pioneers are no-software OEM). 90% of all burning will be done via the Pioneer, though.

Up to you. LiteOn is a decent brand.

Will the stock CPU fan be good enough?

Stock CPU cooler is fine, especially since you are getting a lower power (i.e. lower heat) version. However, you can get something like this if you want an aftermarket cooker and are willing to spend the extra money:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=19666

If you want something cheaper you can do some research on the Thermaltake TMG A1 or A2 to see if they are any good.

Should I bump up the CPU to a faster one again?
I mean, I don't necessarily want to go out of my way to spend the full $1600, but on the other hand, I'll be using the computer for a long time, and so an extra day's pay or even two are a worthwhile investment. ($1600 is basically 3 weeks pay for me after tax, though)

It's up to you, however prices on those AM2 CPUs will only go down until they get discontinued and then they'll go up again (temporarily). CPUs are a pain to swap out, though, so it might be worth it to spend a little extra now, especially if you would have to take it into a shop to have somebody else install it.

[Azazel]

Aside from swapping out optical drives, adding more RAM or more HDDs, (and the odd internal dusting) I tend to leave well enough alone and just buy a whole new computer several years later. So I guess that decides the CPU question then.

But, what does (AM2 65W) mean compared to plain (AM2)? - I noticed that the CPUs higher then the 4800+ don't have the 65W in their names.


More dumbass questions:

Did you have any thoughts on getting 2 of those 320gb HDDs? I can't imagine any problem, and it seems a much better $/space ratio then to get the 500gb one?

Shouldn't be any issue with a Lite-On combo drive (probably) being IDE when other stuff like the Pioneer drive is SATA?

Shouldn't need an aftermarket fan if I don't intend to overclock the CPU at all? What about extra case fans to increase airflow?

[Kageru]

The move is away from IDE and towards SATA drives, so getting a SATA optical drive is a little more future proof.... as if there is such a thing with PC hardware.

Getting 2 drives is actually an advantage I think, better value and gives you a number of raid options.

[Trippy]

Did you have any thoughts on getting 2 of those 320gb HDDs? I can't imagine any problem, and it seems a much better $/space ratio then to get the 500gb one?

It can inconvenient to have things spread across two drive letters but some people actually prefer it that way.

Shouldn't be any issue with a Lite-On combo drive (probably) being IDE when other stuff like the Pioneer drive is SATA?

No.

Shouldn't need an aftermarket fan if I don't intend to overclock the CPU at all? What about extra case fans to increase airflow?

No you don't need an aftermarket fan unless you care about the noise. The case comes with a rear fan. If you get two hard drives you should consider getting an 92mm fan for the front to cool the drives.

[Trippy]

But, what does (AM2 65W) mean compared to plain (AM2)? - I noticed that the CPUs higher then the 4800+ don't have the 65W in their names.

That means that run at a lower voltage than the non-marked ones which means they draw less power and run cooler. The standard 4400+, which apparently they don't sell (or maybe AMD doesn't make them anymore), has a "TDP" of 89 W compared to the 65 W version they are selling.

[schild]

I disagree with Trippy's assessment that buying an Intel right now would make it obsolete.

I don't see how you couldn't make a dual core computer right now and not have it last 3-5 years easy. Those processors are fast as a motherfucker. And worst case, get a motherboard that takes quad core and 1066 RAM also. That's an easy $2-400 upgrade in 2 or 3 years.

[Trippy]

I disagree with Trippy's assessment that buying an Intel right now would make it obsolete.

That was sarcasm but I don't like using green. See my reply to Ironwood.

[schild]

Ah, fell into the sarchasm.

[Engels]

I was wondering myself if it would be worth getting a more expensive LGA775 Intel Dual Core/Quad Core-ready Motherboard and then getting a low low end Intel CPU. I've seen the benchmarks for AM2 chipset/cpus, and they are underwhelming. You can get an Asus P5B motherboard and then a low end Core 2 Duo like this one.

Something like this will allow you to later upgrade to a top end Quad Core that now retails at $700 AU, but as soon as the 45 nm CPUs come out, is likely to drop significantly.

I know its the course I took in the past; getting a very good AMD 64 939 motherboard, then buying a low/mid range 939 single core CPU for it, then 2 years later upgrading to a dual core top of the line AMD CPU. With the solitary exception of Vanguard, the machine's done very well.

All that said, reading the reviews on the AMD AM2 64 X2 44000, it seems its a good budget chip. Additionally, it seems that the new iterations of the Barcelona CPU (the new quads from AMD) will be useable with the AM2 socket type. Wether or not the motherboard in question will support it is another question.

[sinij]

From what I remember when putting my rig together high-end motherboards differ from regular motherboards in following way - better voltage regulators (important only if you plan to OC), support faster bus speeds (important if you plan OC), support more features (such as dual channel memory or dual video cards).

If you are not planning to OC there are not many reasons to get bleeding-edge motherboard.

[Engels]

Except in the case where you want a Quad-ready motherboard; only higher end ones support that. You also get the higher bus ratings for better memory, which allows memory upgrades down the road as well.

[sinij]

I think you have to consider getting budget motherboard now and later when you get quad core. Two budget motherboards often can cost less than top-of-the-line one. Good motherboard is A MUST for performance gaming rig, its too expensive if budget is at all a consideration.

You *can* get good OC out of budget processor, and you will need top-notch mobo for that, is that what you are trying to do?

[Murgos]

I'll chime in with at $179 (US) the SAPPHIRE x1950 PRO 512 MB card is a pretty damn good deal for a card that's only slightly behind the bleeding edge.  Very quiet but it is a little long so you need to have a good size case.  Make sure you have a good power supply though, it recommends 30A on the 12V line.  I'm using a Coolmax CP-500T (39.00 after rebate) that I think is pretty spiffy.

[Engels]

You *can* get good OC out of budget processor, and you will need top-notch mobo for that, is that what you are trying to do?

Nope, I'm not aming for OC features; I'm simply suggesting a high end Intel motherboard because of the possibility to upgrade the CPU alone after a year or two, or also getting higher speed ram later on. They are two easy upgrade solutions that don't require a whole new system.

Budget motherboards are fine, if you stick to decent companies, but a budget motherboard, be it AM2 or 775 socket, will probably lock you out of relatively easy upgrades in the future.

Its not a big issue in this scenario, since Azazel has already said that he'd rather just buy a whole new rig down the line, instead of angling for upgradeability. That said, if you don't mind a comparitively small price hike (the motherboard I linked is the lower end reasonably priced Quad ready Asus P5B board), it may leave an option open.

[cmlancas]

Currently on XE.com, I see $1400 AUD to be equivalent to $1150 USD, so let me offer up my current build which I love to death.

Granted these were Newegg prices, but I did this build for just a smidge over $1100 USD (Including Monitor)

1) 250GB HDD (WD) -- $67.99 USD - Item #: N82E16822144701

2) 2x1GB DDR2800 (Corsair) -- $154.00 USD (-$50.00 USD MIR) Item #: N82E16820145034

3) 1x7900GS (BFG -- I got a steal of a deal on Black Friday -- $120) $165.99 (-$35.00 USD MIR) Item #: N82E16814143070

4) e6600 2.4GHz (Intel) $226.00 Item #: N82E16819115003 (Best bang for the buck on the market. I added two 80MM and one 120MM fans to this rig and it runs at room temperature.)

5) LGA775 Motherboard (ECS) $119.99 Item#:N82E16813135047 (-$20.00 MIR) (Yes, I'd recommend it for basic non-overclocking. I think I might get reamed for this one, but it sounds like you aren't too big into OCing)

6) DVD-ROM (Sony) $30.00 USD (Pick your poison, I'm not going to go research optical drives for you ;))

7) Case w/500w PSU (X-Navigator) $94.99 USD (-$15.00 USD MIR) Item #: N82E16811144164 (The newegg reviews on this item are from people who must love chucking their cases through a window before they build. I didn't have a /single/ problem with the case. In fact, I love it. The LED's are bright, but if you don't like LEDs, don't get the case. The 500W PSU isn't cheap, and if you are on a budget, it's a great way to save a little money buying the combo.)

8) 20" LCD Flatscreen Monitor (Sceptre) (You said you didn't need this...but I like to show my full build)

9) Mouse/Keyboard Combo (Logitech) // On a side note, don't go for wireless stuff for gaming purposes. I hate the delay.

10) Headset (Altec-Lansing)

11) OS (Windows XP -- I got a copy through my school for $40)

For a grand total of....$998.96 with OS@$140 USD and without MIR, and $878.76 with OS@$140 USD and MIR. Even if they reamed you for $250 USD shipping, you'd be within your budget. I'll even offer to help you with a legit copy of Windows XP through my school so you can save an extra $100 USD. I know I have 3dMark05 scores somewhere.... let's see... 9605. That's not too terribly bad for a budget system. I'll just put it this way, I ran VG effectively at 30-40 FPS in group situations in a widescreen setup (1680x1050). Yes, there are no bells and whistles on this machine such as a 8800GTX or a quad core, but we're on a budget here.

I hope this helps you, and if I might be of any more service, feel free to e-mail me or pm me on the forums.
Happy Building!

[Trippy]

Newegg doesn't assemble. And you are guessing at the shipping cost, import taxes, etc.

[cmlancas]

You're right -- unfortunately I don't know of any Aussie shopping sites, but if you found one with even a 20% markup, it'd be still under budget.
Imo, building a PC is more or less snapping pieces together. I don't know if you all consider PCG a reputable source on building PCs, but I used their how-to for my first build and it came out spot on perfect.

[Azazel]

Thanks for the info, and I've put together my own, family and friends' last 3? 5? PCs over time but usually there's just one small issue that fucks the whole thing up - nowadays I'm making enough money so that the $55 to get them to assemble the whole thing is well worthwhile, especially since that means it comes with a couple years' replacement warranty and they've even serviced PCs for free years later when I bought all the components from them.

- I'm working prices off their website, but it's actually a Brick and Mortar store like 10 minutes from my house.

I've bought tons of stuff throught the internets fronm the US, and one thing I can tell you, once you go DHL or FedEx, shipping gets really expensive. I think easily expensive enough to write off the large price difference between the US and here (a currency conversion via XE unfortunately is just half the story)

I'll definately check into the hardware bits you listed though, once I get home from work. 

And yeah, I'm not worried at all about overclocking - I had a friend who helped me with the first couple computers who liked to overclock everything and thought he knew a little more than he actually knew...    net effect, I'll leave the thing be once I build it.

I have about an extra AU$50ish left in the budget I could put towards a better mobo, but atm I'm looking at getting the AMD 5400, so not sure if it would be worthwhile from an "upgrade-the-processor-later" perspective.


just thinking.. if I have a bit of $ left over, should I buy a third gig of ram?

[Trippy]

What's your budget up to now? If it's large enough it might be worth getting a Core 2 Duo setup.

just thinking.. if I have a bit of $ left over, should I buy a third gig of ram?

Not unless you want to go to Vista.

[schild]

I don't see the number 8800 in your setup. Did I miss it?

[cmlancas]

I have about an extra AU$50ish left in the budget I could put towards a better mobo, but atm I'm looking at getting the AMD 5400, so not sure if it would be worthwhile from an "upgrade-the-processor-later" perspective.

Take it from me, an AMD Fanboi for years -- the Conroes are where it is at. It is by far the best piece of hardware for the buck on the market. Period. It makes games weak in the knees just knowing it's in your system.

Although their stock HSF sucks.

[schild]

A Conroe is gonna run better than a 6600 dual-core? Really?

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/04/which_is_the_best_mainstream_cpu/page7.html#3dgames

[Trippy]

I have about an extra AU$50ish left in the budget I could put towards a better mobo, but atm I'm looking at getting the AMD 5400, so not sure if it would be worthwhile from an "upgrade-the-processor-later" perspective.

Take it from me, an AMD Fanboi for years -- the Conroes are where it is at. It is by far the best piece of hardware for the buck on the market. Period. It makes games weak in the knees just knowing it's in your system.

No, it's not, not at his budget range. E.g. a E6420 4MB is AUS$257.40 but an X2 5600+ beats it handily in most gaming benchmarks and its $238.70. If he had enough to go to the E6600, which beats out the X2 6000+, I would agree with you. Or if he wanted to OC one of the lower end 800 MHz Core 2 Duo.

[cmlancas]

I don't see the number 8800 in your setup. Did I miss it?

Shouldn't that be in green? I'm pretty sure I said that it didn't have any bells and whistles -- the 8800 series is about 1/3 his budget and certainly would vex the PSU.

But if your point is that it isn't a real system because it doesn't have an 8800, well played, sir.

[Trippy]

A Conroe is gonna run better than a 6600 dual-core? Really?

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/04/which_is_the_best_mainstream_cpu/page7.html#3dgames

Conroe is the codename for the Core 2 Duo.

[Trippy]

I don't see the number 8800 in your setup. Did I miss it?

If you talking about the video card, he can't afford an NVIDIA 8800.

To put it another way at AUS$1400 and given the markup at CC compared to a place like Newegg, he's looking to build a US$1000 PC.

[schild]

I just got served. It was in the gaming forum. I made assumptions I shouldn't have.

* schild fears wall of text.

This is going to be a gaming computer, but I also intend to do a little bit of video editing with it. Not much though, so I imagine anything that can hendle today's games nicely will be able to edit decently.

Should've read the sentence after that one.

On a side note, doesn't it make sense to save for a few weeks and get the processor/graphics upgrade?