UO beta sign-ups open

[Trippy]

Considering EA's new relationship with The9, I wonder if they did this work to push UO over to China, where it seems like every other MMO is isometric.

EA has its own studio in China.

Building, hosting, and distributing MMOs?

Not that I'm aware of though their Japan center does that so they do have people over in Asia that can do it. I thought you were saying that The9 should do the localization work for UO if they wanted to sell it in China.

[Azaroth]

Well, I have to admit that UO was probably the most fun I've ever had in a Video Game... but updating it like this is like remodeling the local historic landmark... the only reason people ever go around there is nostalgia... If it doesn’t look anything like the glory days, wtf would I want to go back?

I don't think the graphics are great (and I don't think they're meant to be, I'm assuming that they're keeping system specs demands low because much of their userbase are operating on lower end machines) - but one thing I do think is that they did a fine job of making the new graphics "feel" like the old ones, in a way.

Obviously UO graphics are UO graphics and anything else isn't the same, but I'd say they've done a good job for what they were trying to do.

What offends the olfactory senses to me, anyway, is the mishmash of philosophy here. On one hand, they create a new client without placing strain on their existing userbase to upgrade their computers. They make the new graphics look, at least mostly, and feel - as much as they can, really - like the old graphics.

They seem to know that, rightfully, they're not stealing anyone from WoW - and that existing users are what they need to worry about first.

But now they'll start working on an expansion to add Draenot and 40 man raids to add to their elves, ninjas, robots, cooshies, artifacts, whatever.

[WindupAtheist]

I don't know.  The current dev team seems to be actually keeping to their blurb about "putting more Ultima in UO" this time around.  All of the recent in-game events have been based around lore from Ultimas 5-7, and the new race in the upcoming expansion is gargoyle ala Ultima 6, and not... you know... dwarves or tauren or some shit.

And in retrospect, I don't really mind the samurai/ninja thing.  It would be one thing if they just slopped it in with no explanation, but it's segregated logically.  All of the Japanese-themed clothing, equipment, monsters, and trainers are found only on the Japanese-themed landmass.  The Moonglow tailor can't sell you a kimono, and no amount of farming Despise will ever net you a wakizashi.  What the hell, at least it makes Tokuno feel more like a separate land, with different critters in the field and different items in the shops.

The elves piss me off, but whatever.  At least they'll be balanced by a non-pretty and lore-relevant race now.  And if anyone can show me a non-Diku fantasy MMO with as much sandboxyness as UO but better graphics, well shit, I'd be glad to hear about it.

/shrug

[Slayerik]

There were katana's and french bread since the beginning of UO, not exactly fitting into Brittania from the get-go. Was this a sign of things to come? Did a hero take a moongate from Earth and drop off the French Bread recipe to some local baker? Stay tuned for these answers and more with the next expansion: UO: The Hun Invasion

God, I hate those pesky Huns.

[Der Helm]

God, I hate those pesky Huns.

Hey! 

[Signe]

God, I hate those pesky Huns.

Hey! 

There, there.  I'm sure he couldn't possibly mean you because you are very lovely.

[Simond]

About the visuals, you all should stop yapping and point me to a game with UO gameplay and better graphics.

www.eve-online.com
(Sort of).

[Azaroth]

this and that

Implementing events dealing with early Ultima games is... nice, but more of a thing to be done in 97/98 for a bit of fun, no? I just don't see how it could even be a mentionable part of any feasible game plan. It seems more like a gimmick than a plan. A new landmass with Gargoyles and what not.. sort of falls in the same category I suppose. I'm sure Gargoyles play more authentic to the crowd, and that's nice.. if anyone playing UO would still notice that type of thing. But I just don't see a revival strategy to go with a revival opportunity here.

At this point, UO doesn't need autopilot plans. I like that there seems to be a direction, sort of, as opposed to years past. But I think they're going to need more than that.

At this point they may be happy with holding onto their current subs for another five or six years? I don't know. I think the new client will help, but I also think it's at least three or four years late and probably won't garner the results they're hoping for. I'd love to be wrong about that. I'm a big fan of UO. I just think it's been mutilated too badly over the years and needs a serious captain to take hold of the wheel and go "Alright, this is what we're doing. This is where we're going with it. This is why. And this is why it will work. Here is how it will pan out over the next three years.".

I think the game has been desperate for that guy or gal for a long time now though. The worst thing for a MMO, really, is a total loss of direction and a complete identity crisis as the game changes hands repeatedly.

The shame I see in this is that the release of the new client will probably be their last solid chance to right the ship, and I can see it passing without incident like so many expansions past. But hey, prove me wrong.

[Falconeer]

About the visuals, you all should stop yapping and point me to a game with UO gameplay and better graphics.

www.eve-online.com
(Sort of).

Come on.

[WindupAtheist]

At this point they may be happy with holding onto their current subs for another five or six years?

That and pulling back however many folks they can who have churned away over the years, but basically yes.  If it's 2012 and UO still has it's 100k+ subscribers, I don't doubt that EA/Mythic will be tickled pink.  Going balls-out for a "revival" of a decade-old MMO in today's marketplace sounds like the sort of thing that leads to NGE territory.

Graphical and UI overhauls, and content derived from Ultima instead of the ELF-COWBOY-ROBOT-NINJA-JEDI-MAFIA dartboard?  I don't really know what else they're supposed to be doing.

[shiznitz]

You mean other than bringing back pre-casting, beeotch?

[Azaroth]

At this point they may be happy with holding onto their current subs for another five or six years?

That and pulling back however many folks they can who have churned away over the years, but basically yes.  If it's 2012 and UO still has it's 100k+ subscribers, I don't doubt that EA/Mythic will be tickled pink.  Going balls-out for a "revival" of a decade-old MMO in today's marketplace sounds like the sort of thing that leads to NGE territory.

Graphical and UI overhauls, and content derived from Ultima instead of the ELF-COWBOY-ROBOT-NINJA-JEDI-MAFIA dartboard?  I don't really know what else they're supposed to be doing.

For my money, I would want it to be something other than "coast into the darkness". I also sincerely doubt they have 100k+ subscribers right now, let alone in 2012 - upgrade or no upgrade.

The last thing I'd suggest is an overhaul, anyway. Remember where I said that current users come first.

[Azaroth]

pulling back however many folks they can who have churned away over the years

This is more along the lines of what I mean. But I don't see how it's being accomplished?

[Falconeer]

pulling back however many folks they can who have churned away over the years

This is more along the lines of what I mean. But I don't see how it's being accomplished?

Look. Like it or not, UO worldlyness and PvP are still unique. Among other things, given the lack of meaningful PvP fantasy MMOs and worldly non-dikus, they are trying to:

a) get some visibility back, letting the world know the game is alive and kickin with expansions, investments and revamps
b) give old players a reason to get back retaining the feeling but giving them something new to look at
c) improve the way the game "moves" (scrolling was horrible, moving the char around was awful, etc...), enhancing the overall game experience and eventually the PvP part

What's so hard to understand? The game is alive, healthy, unique, and worth improvements of all kind. As much as I love the old 2d graphics, which will remain on duty anyway, I think they are on the right track, steaming. In-game events included (Can't get enough of those).
Wasted chance you say? They are redoing the visuals, putting in the gargoyles and re-introducing the legendary Stygian Abyss. As WUA said, "I don't really know what else they're supposed to be doing." Exactly.

Anyway, if what you are trying to say is that it won't beat WoW in 2008, alas, I agree. But it'll go close.

[Calantus]

I'm agreeing with Azaroth here. As an outsier looking in now (last I played was a few months after the paladin and necromancer skills expansion) it seems the devs are interested in adding new monsters and tacking on new systems, skills, races, and landmasses. Now while that's all fine, I don't recall them overhauling any of the old systems that are just shit now that it's no longer the 90s. Crafting would be the biggest one, I couldn't for the life of me stand to make another GM <crafting skill> without EasyUO running the whole time while I do something else. Skilling up in general is very poorly done and quite painful if you just want a character in a hurry, and lets face it, that's what you want nowdays, a character thats ready to take on the toughest monsters or craft the best stuff. As I understand it PVP besides moongate camping and champions spawns is largely dead everywhere. Etc. UO for me went from a PVP and crafting paradise with dressup (yes I admit it, I spent hours putting my outfit together), treasure hunting, fishing up MOBs, and some monster bash on the side to all monsterbash with some other shit left over from the old days. That's the main reason I don't come back, it just never was about the monster bash for me and it seems to me thats all they care about.

I also hate the legacy system. Nothing says to me "and STAY out!" like making a new account only to not be able to use leather dye tubs and not have a horse that doesn't run away, etc, etc. I don't pay $15 to become a second-class citizen just because I'm not obsessed enough to have played for 10 years.

[sinij]

If they hope for any kind of revival they need to address issues that made people quit. It wasn't old graphics, so I don't see new client going to bring more subs.

Timing release of 'classic' server with new client would be best shot they can get at pulling some subs back.

[Slayerik]

If they hope for any kind of revival they need to address issues that made people quit. It wasn't old graphics, so I don't see new client going to bring more subs.

Timing release of 'classic' server with new client would be best shot they can get at pulling some subs back.

I wasn't going to bring up the 'classic server' thing, cause if it was going to happen im guessing they would have done it by now. Here's to hoping, you know I'd give it a go.

[WindupAtheist]

For my money, I would want it to be something other than "coast into the darkness".

Like what?  I'm not being facetious.  I'm just a little puzzled at how they can cast their entire interface and all their graphics to the wind, pile on some new content, and people think they aren't going far enough.  Now granted they could use something like an improved faction system for PVP, but that's hardly make-or-break, and anyway we can't comment fully until we know all the features of the content expansion.

I also sincerely doubt they have 100k+ subscribers right now, let alone in 2012 - upgrade or no upgrade.

Bruce had them at around 135k as of last year.  I mean yeah, it's Bruce, but I seem to recall UO being one of his more reliable figures thanks to some obscure investor report EA puts out.

[Simond]

About the visuals, you all should stop yapping and point me to a game with UO gameplay and better graphics.

www.eve-online.com
(Sort of).

Come on.

What?
Non-Diku, worldly, PvP (with item loot, no less), player housing, etc, etc. EVE owes almost as much to UO as it does to Elite.

[Ironwood]

I think he wants elves.  Because, really, who doesn't ?

[Falconeer]

About the visuals, you all should stop yapping and point me to a game with UO gameplay and better graphics.

www.eve-online.com
(Sort of).

Come on.

What?
Non-Diku, worldly, PvP (with item loot, no less), player housing, etc, etc. EVE owes almost as much to UO as it does to Elite.

Sure.

Flasback. We are back in 2001.
Allakhazam Boards:

Clueless Guy: "Sup guys? I am bored with EverQuest but I want to play that kind of game again, just not EverQuest anymore. Can you give me some directions?"

Smart Guy: "Not sure about now, but in a few months Earth and Beyond is coming out. That should be exactly what you are looking for."

[El Gallo]

I heard that in this game people can kill you and take your stuff, but that they don't because of player-enforced justice?  Does that work, because it sounds pretty awesome to me!

[Azaroth]

For my money, I would want it to be something other than "coast into the darkness".

Like what?  I'm not being facetious.  I'm just a little puzzled at how they can cast their entire interface and all their graphics to the wind, pile on some new content, and people think they aren't going far enough.  Now granted they could use something like an improved faction system for PVP, but that's hardly make-or-break, and anyway we can't comment fully until we know all the features of the content expansion.

They'd have to hire me for that. I'm not being facetious. I also probably wouldn't be able to take the job, but I have plans of my own that don't include laying out every thought in my head on messageboards or blogs.

I also sincerely doubt they have 100k+ subscribers right now, let alone in 2012 - upgrade or no upgrade.

Bruce had them at around 135k as of last year.  I mean yeah, it's Bruce, but I seem to recall UO being one of his more reliable figures thanks to some obscure investor report EA puts out.

From everything I've read and heard from people who still play, that number seems wildly... "fluffed"? Unless about 80k or so of that comes from Japan. Which wouldn't surprise me either. I do think they could do better. I don't think the answer lies solely in add-on content (that nobody is really noticing).

I also think they should probably just make UO2 for real. With two chopped attempts at UO:Diku, the new client, and Warhammer.. that's just not going to happen. Which is why everything I say doesnt' go something like "Yeah but here's what you do when you start to remake the game".

[Falconeer]

It still has 26 servers. I know they are "smaller" than most recent games, but as far as I know they never merged one.
And it probably has more subscribers than Vanguard. Plus, if you do the math, even if it has like 40k subscribers, 12$ * 40k = 480k $/month. Almost 6 millions/year.
How much do you think it costs them to run the whole boat?

I don't know shit about business, but I'd say it is still a goldmine for them. A discreet but endless goldmine.
With upcoming Kingdom Reborn and Stygian Abyss they are raising the stakes, and in the right direction. As I said I don't know shit, but I really don't think they could do better.

EDIT: That said, I still have to try the new client. Maybe it sucks donkey ball and they are finally sinking it.

[WindupAtheist]

They'd have to hire me for that. I'm not being facetious. I also probably wouldn't be able to take the job, but I have plans of my own that don't include laying out every thought in my head on messageboards or blogs.

Right.

From everything I've read and heard from people who still play, that number seems wildly... "fluffed"? Unless about 80k or so of that comes from Japan. Which wouldn't surprise me either.

Bingo.  At least 50% of the playerbase was Japanese last time I heard.

I do think they could do better. I don't think the answer lies solely in add-on content (that nobody is really noticing).

You could tell us what it does lie in, but then you'd have to kill us!

I also think they should probably just make UO2 for real. With two chopped attempts at UO:Diku, the new client, and Warhammer.. that's just not going to happen. Which is why everything I say doesnt' go something like "Yeah but here's what you do when you start to remake the game".

Given that AC2 died, EQ2 was plugging away with fewer subs than EQ1 last time I checked, and that even the most optimistic guess has it at less than half of peak EQ1, just what is supposed to convince anyone that an MMO sequel is a good idea?

[Azaroth]

I'm not sure what exactly makes people assume that I'd like to spend my time engaged in conversations with condescending pricks.

Look, if you want to look cool by being an asshole - go back to middle school. If you want to have a conversation about something, speak to me like an adult. I thought my lack of a response to others in this thread would have made this clear by now.

[Murgos]

I'm not sure what exactly makes people assume that I'd like to spend my time engaged in conversations with condescending pricks.

Too be fair you started with the condescension first, I would think that the reason people think that you want to have a conversation would be that you are talking to them.

[MarkJacobs]

Folks,

   Just a few random thoughts while I'm finally getting around to answering my messages here:

1) You would be pleasantly surprised at the current number of monthly paying subs to UO.  I know I was when EA acquired us.  As you know I can't give out numbers for all sorts of legal/investor/public company issues, but consider whether I would have continued to have the UO guys work on KR if it didn't make financial sense.  It's not like I couldn't have found work for them on DAoC/Warhammer eh? 

2) When we came in, the UO team was not made up of veteran after veteran who knew the game inside and out.  Unlike Mythic, which still has a ridiculously high amount of people left even from the pre-DAoC "old days", the UO team didn't have that.  There was some institutional knowledge but changing ten-year old code, even in the best of circumstances, isn't easy.  Doing it while you are trying to update the game, integrate Mythic's client engine & more and make a schedule is really, really difficult  They are doing a fine job, all things considered.

3) I remain, as I have always been and said (E3, GDC), a big fan of the Ultima series and of UO.  It wasn't perfect but it was the first game that hit 100K paying subs and made it possible for the rest of us to finally convince some publishers that there might be a future in these crazy games.  What I find stunning is that after 10 years+ and even games like WoW, there are still publishers who don't believe in MMORPGs.

4) I've always believed in taking things one step at a time and doing them in the right order (around Mythic I talk about building the foundation of a game before you build the damn penthouse) and the same thing applies to UO.  They are taking it one step at a time and we'll see how that goes.  Considering (2) and (3), I think you can figure out the future depending on how things go with KR.

Overall, I'm proud of what the team has done so far.  They are working hard and we are seeing results.  Now, as always, the best measure of those results will be 30 days after KR goes up. 

Mark

[Falconeer]

I

You talk a lot in a UO topic for a guy who clearly don't know shit about UO.

[Azaroth]

You talk a lot in a UO topic for a guy who clearly don't know shit about UO.

 

I would think that the reason people think that you want to have a conversation would be that you are talking to them.

Don't worry, I'll be sure to cut that out immediately.

[Murgos]

Don't worry, I'll be sure to cut that out immediately.

And yet, here you are.  Again.

[Joey]

If they hope for any kind of revival they need to address issues that made people quit. It wasn't old graphics, so I don't see new client going to bring more subs.

Timing release of 'classic' server with new client would be best shot they can get at pulling some subs back.

THAT would be the thing to bring me back.

I'll have a look at Kingdom Reborn just out of curiosity, but I can't possibly see myself subscribing as long as there's Trammel, the Age of Shadows ruleset, and ninjas/elves/samurai.

[HaemishM]

I'm not sure what exactly makes people assume that I'd like to spend my time engaged in conversations with condescending pricks.

You're posting on an Internet gaming message board, perhaps?

[Nija]

I really doubt there is anyone who currently pays EA $x/mo for UO that knows or cares about the original Ultima lore from Ultima 1-7.

WUA might be the black sheep there. Maybe. I doubt even he cares about it. Obviously, because he's paying to whack robotic ninja elves. In the Ultima universe.

That video showing some dipshit demoing the new client - it opens with a powerpoint and one slide had a big picture of a dwarf, then he hit next slide and put a big X over it - "there will be no dwarves in UO". But they have elves. Weren't there dwarves in Ultima Underworld? Isn't the next fucking expansion NAMED AFTER ULTIMA UNDERWORLD?

God damn. Jacobs sit those stupid motherfuckers down and make them all play BOTH UNDERWORLD GAMES THANKS.

[Murgos]

Bring back Bobbits BIOTCH.