Blizzard Moderator expresses sanity

[Merusk]

Until you see some bright-eyed player coming onto the forums wanting to know what they should spec as this class, and see them shat on and driven away by petty and selfish people who are simply leveraging for game buffs, you will not understand.

Some might even say that some of you fuckers invented this board trolling style.

Naw, just the ego-centric would say that.  It's been the position of the internet to beat-down the idiots since Usenet.  It's just that there's no recognized authority to dispense beat-down these days, and no way for the masses to killfile the idiots.  The lack of Killfiles is the single greatest flaw of web boards.

On a side note, WAR isn't having official forums.

That is huge mistake and just asking for your community to be hijacked by gold sellers. You can't fight gold sellers if they control your community via message boards.

It worked for DAoC.  However, DAoC also had the answer center, or whatever that thing's called.  I don't see EA shelling out the time or effort to build such a database for WAR.. which is probably part of the reason Sanya left.  No official boards + no official knowledge base to query = frustrated customers.

[Raging Turtle]

Like I said, pussy bitch. Can't handle the pressure, get the ever living fuck out of the kitchen.

I think it's pretty obvious he doesn't care anymore if he does get fired.  I doubt you could maintain any level of civility moderating that level of angst and ignorance. 

[Threash]

Like I said, pussy bitch. Can't handle the pressure, get the ever living fuck out of the kitchen.

Of all mmorpg boards I think best one was SB's worst one would be anything by Blizzard. I think 'everyone out to get you' attitude is overall better than half-assed play nice policy.

I remember the SB boards and they were pretty tame as you say, probably because the population was so damn small.

[Furiously]

They really need to just establish some rules and enforce them...

1. No first posts!
2. No "bump" posts
3. You can start one thread a day
4. No posting from trial accounts

By the same token, given the number of accounts they have, I'm amazed the forums are not even more of a fester cesspit. They really need to rotate people into and out of those positions.

[jpark]

Until you see some bright-eyed player coming onto the forums wanting to know what they should spec as this class, and see them shat on and driven away by petty and selfish people who are simply leveraging for game buffs, you will not understand.

I've seen it daily for years.

This Blizzard mod is a pussy bitch.

Some might even say that some of you fuckers invented this board trolling style.

Someone needs to sock this guy in the face, explain the flagrant misuse of the HST quote in his sig, and tell him to grow some.

Your reaction suprised me. 

This guy is not prescribing his actions as to how to do his job - but merely breaking down.  Schild - you have far less tolerance for fools than most - you would reach his state in an afternoon.

Consider that a compliment :)

Tangent:  one simple way to control quality ont he boards is to introduce a posting delay.  You cannot post more than once per day.  I found in WoW beta - that these boards really act like online chat channels - supporting online conversation of sorts.  Limiting one post today would cater to cooler heads and discourage guys looking for troll enterntainment.  Not perfect - but would be interesting.

[schild]

I never reach his state. I don't break down. I do, however, lay down the gauntlet with the authority of the Sun God.

Edit: Did I mention I work in a job 50x more stressful - the exact same kind of stress.. just amplified - that he works in?

[Nebu]

Edit: Did I mention I work in a job 50x more stressful - the exact same kind of stress.. just amplified - that he works in?

Where does medicine rank then?

<I kid, I kid>

[Raging Turtle]

I never reach his state. I don't break down. I do, however, lay down the gauntlet with the authority of the Sun God.

Edit: Did I mention I work in a job 50x more stressful - the exact same kind of stress.. just amplified - that he works in?

If you work in a complaint department or IT call center or something like that, then I take it all back 

[Paelos]

They really need to just establish some rules and enforce them...

1. No first posts!
2. No "bump" posts
3. You can start one thread a day
4. No posting from trial accounts

By the same token, given the number of accounts they have, I'm amazed the forums are not even more of a fester cesspit. They really need to rotate people into and out of those positions.

Also force people to post from their highest level character, or if they have many 70s they can choose. Allowing people to post from level 1 alts is the very definition of encouraging stupidity.

[Chenghiz]

They really need to just establish some rules and enforce them...

1. No first posts!
2. No "bump" posts
3. You can start one thread a day
4. No posting from trial accounts

By the same token, given the number of accounts they have, I'm amazed the forums are not even more of a fester cesspit. They really need to rotate people into and out of those positions.

Also force people to post from their highest level character, or if they have many 70s they can choose. Allowing people to post from level 1 alts is the very definition of encouraging stupidity.

Or just allow people to see what other characters that poster has by clicking on their name or something.

[Calantus]

I think where Tseric goes wrong is that somewhere inside he believes people are better than they are. I imagine I would not be able to tolerate his job for very long but only because I have a very bad temper and would simply fly off the rails in a fit of rage one day. I do it all the time now, I'll be reading the WoW boards and then BAM someone says something so stupid it makes my eyes twitch and I just have to bring out my troll toon and let them have it. Tseric seems to be genuinely upset and betrayed by their activity though, definitely he has not been desensitised by enough internet to do his job, they need someone so jaded they are no longer surprised and simply don't care what people do anymore.

[Paelos]

I think where Tseric goes wrong is that somewhere inside he believes people are better than they are. I imagine I would not be able to tolerate his job for very long but only because I have a very bad temper and would simply fly off the rails in a fit of rage one day. I do it all the time now, I'll be reading the WoW boards and then BAM someone says something so stupid it makes my eyes twitch and I just have to bring out my troll toon and let them have it. Tseric seems to be genuinely upset and betrayed by their activity though, definitely he has not been desensitised by enough internet to do his job, they need someone so jaded they are no longer surprised and simply don't care what people do anymore.

Or just put Haemish and Ironwood in charge and let the bannings fly. Not to mention the hilarity.

[Xanthippe]

See, now that's the thing.

People act like idiots on the internet.  Everybody knows that.

If Tseric can't deal with it anymore for whatever reason then he needs a new job.  What he is doing is feeding trolls, which is what, the number 1 rule of what not to do as a mod on forums?

More suspensions, bans, and enforcement of whatever rules Blizzard forums have early on and often - being tough and consistent and not putting up with shit - is professional.  Melting down on a forum is not.

He needs a different job.  He is not managing himself properly - how can he possibly manage the community?

[Trouble]

The last time he had a meltdown like this was probably like a year ago. I recall he was not seen posting for a few weeks after that, probably either took a vacation or was forced to take one. He really needs to desensitize. This is how the internet is, especially on the forum of an MMO with 8 million customers. Take out your rage by mass banning the tards, don't go on a tirade because that does nothing.

[jpark]

People act like idiots on the internet.  Everybody knows that.

Not quite.  Cowards is far more appropriate.

It reminds of a dog that behind the window would puff his chest out in a ferocious display.  Remove the barrier, and any notion of hostility recedes to civility.

In terms of internet etiquette - most people reveal themselves for what they are: cowards.  For whatever reason (no career, no sex, feeling physically diminished ... etc).  Canonized with the anonymity of the internet - they engage others with gusto they would never now in real life.

It's quite funny.  Of course - even in boxing gyms you don't find folks anywhere near as belligerant as you typical internet poster.  How odd 

[WindupAtheist]

Or just put Haemish and Ironwood in charge and let the bannings fly. Not to mention the hilarity.

What if they did?  What if they just grabbed a bunch of sarcastic pricks who don't suffer fools, gave them mod powers, and turned them loose on the WoW forums with instructions to go apeshit?

Would any appreciable number of people really quit because some mod on the forum slapped them with a flamethrower for being a fucking idiot?  I doubt it.  I bet it would work out better in the end.

[Ironwood]

Not sure if I should be offended or chuffed, but the point is well made :  The Blizzard boards are a prime example of what happens when you do not put in proper restrictions in place to curb behaviour.   While I'm sure I would have great fun Stalinising those boards, if I was actually given executive charge of those boards, I wouldn't be making changes in person first;  I'd be putting down groundrules from which to work from.

These guys LACK DISCIPLINE.

Hell, several suggestions made in this very thread would tone down the stupidity by huge degrees.

[ajax34i]

Don't know if Blizzard's rules allow them to do the stuff that you guys suggest.  Maybe that's what needs to change.  You're all fully in control of the boards here, but I'm guessing that with such a large team of CM's to manage, Blizzard's decided to have one set of rules across all boards, even though the Euro boards are indeed a lot more civil than the US ones.  And the list of no-no's is probably long, making them pretty powerless in most situations.  The suits wouldn't wanna piss off the playerbase and affect the cash flow and all that.

[Xanthippe]

The CMs need to have authority to act, because responsibility without authority doesn't work.

So either Blizzard fucked up by not giving the CMs proper authority (setting rules, expectations, procedures, and so on) or CM Tseric fucked up by not being disciplined enough himself.

A sane person would not take a job like CM without having the authority to do that job. 

[Miasma]

CMs should really be different than mods, which I think Blizzard tries to do with Coriel[sp?] being a mod.  CMs should pretend to care what people say and treat them nicely, mods should delete threads, ban people from posting and in extreme cases ban them from playing.  Good cop bad cop.

"I didn't delete your asinine post, that mean old mod did, I'm on your side here!"

They should also rip off Something Awful's use of bold text under stupid comments to make examples of people, whenever someone gets put on probation or banned a bold (Person was banned for this post) gets tacked on.  I'm also amazed they still let people have sigs considering most of them are either just whines or the ascii text middle finger.

[Triforcer]

Why is this guy angry?  Our money tunes-up his Porsche. 

[Jayce]

CMs should really be different than mods, which I think Blizzard tries to do with Coriel[sp?] being a mod.  CMs should pretend to care what people say and treat them nicely, mods should delete threads, ban people from posting and in extreme cases ban them from playing.  Good cop bad cop.

"I didn't delete your asinine post, that mean old mod did, I'm on your side here!"

This is a good point IMO. One additional difference between those forums and these/SA/etc is that the WoW forums, in effect, cost money, since you have to have a subscription.  I think the mods have fewer liberties when you are dealing with customers as opposed to community members.  And so it should be, since something real is at stake, but it inevitably leads to more noise on the forums.

[Furiously]

This is a good point IMO. One additional difference between those forums and these/SA/etc is that the WoW forums, in effect, cost money, since you have to have a subscription.  I think the mods have fewer liberties when you are dealing with customers as opposed to community members.  And so it should be, since something real is at stake, but it inevitably leads to more noise on the forums.

Just because you pay me $15 a month to play monopoly at my house doesn't give you the right to spraypaint "The shoe sucks, nerf the car!!!1111! LOLERcopter" on my front siding. If you act like an ass I can tell you to leave.

[ajax34i]

Just because you pay me $15 a month to play monopoly at my house doesn't give you the right to spraypaint "The shoe sucks, nerf the car!!!1111! LOLERcopter" on my front siding. If you act like an ass I can tell you to leave.

That analogy doesn't work, though, because the forums are a feature that was created specifically for supporting the game, and so when analogies are made, they should be made to parts of other games, not parts of your house.  Paying you $15 a month to play monopoly at your house doesn't give me the right to shout at the top of my lungs while playing, thus pissing off your neighbors, that would be a good analogy.

[Furiously]

That analogy doesn't work, though, because the forums are a feature that was created specifically for supporting the game, and so when analogies are made, they should be made to parts of other games, not parts of your house.  Paying you $15 a month to play monopoly at your house doesn't give me the right to shout at the top of my lungs while playing, thus pissing off your neighbors, that would be a good analogy.

1. Blizzard had forums before Warcraft. I'm sure 99% of people asked of why do you pay money to Blizzard for warcraft are not going to say, "To post on the message board." I think the official support is on their web page when you click support which contains a great database of support issues.

2. As for your logic, No.  I am utilizing Blizzard's message board servers, not the warcraft game when I post on their boards. So you are essentially playing the game (Warcraft) at their house (their server farm). When you post on their message board (their server farm which = their house), I can make the analogy about any part of my house.

3. You are getting into time, place and manner there with the yelling bit. Too complicated as it no longer is a civil issue but a criminal one.

How about we make the analogy using a cork board in my kitchen where I post monoploy announcements, schedules and piece for sale as well a local community issues and allow others to post stuff as well?

[ajax34i]

Ok, corkboard is fine, except for the fact that spray-painting obscenities on the corkboard is equivalent to defacing the Blizzard website/forums (hacking), not to posting on the forums.  All of the tools and ways to interact with the forums have been coded and provided by Blizzard.  If you provide the corkboard, pins, pieces of paper, AND spray-paint can, then expect us not to use the spray-paint...  sure.

It doesn't matter, actually, I disagreed with the analogy, you don't agree with me, let's just let the thread get back on track and continue.  Reply if you wish to and let's move on.

[Calantus]

This is a good point IMO. One additional difference between those forums and these/SA/etc is that the WoW forums, in effect, cost money, since you have to have a subscription.  I think the mods have fewer liberties when you are dealing with customers as opposed to community members.  And so it should be, since something real is at stake, but it inevitably leads to more noise on the forums.

Except you pay to post on the SA forums. :P

[WindupAtheist]

Just give the retards forum-bans.  Let them keep playing the game, and let the GM staff game-ban them if they're assholes there.

[Typhon]

I think that posters should have some ability to effect other posters.  I'm imagining a sort of "Lord of the Flies" sort of thing, but more subtle.

Maybe something like this:

Poster that correctly identify and report the most posts/threads that are outside TOS get to be made moderators (of some degree of power, unpaid, of course).  Starting with very few powers initially, but slowly working their way up.  Posters that create the most useful threads (as voted on by other players) get to be community relations people/class leads/etc.  Again, starting very slowly and working their way up.

Course, at this point in my sicko head I start to manipulate things by having the paid people (mods, CMs) choose and promote certain of the non-paid mods/CM, all arbitrarily of course.  Whether this would make the forums any better is unknown, if just sounds like alot of fun.

[Jayce]

This is a good point IMO. One additional difference between those forums and these/SA/etc is that the WoW forums, in effect, cost money, since you have to have a subscription.  I think the mods have fewer liberties when you are dealing with customers as opposed to community members.  And so it should be, since something real is at stake, but it inevitably leads to more noise on the forums.

Except you pay to post on the SA forums. :P

Oops, shows how much I visit the SA forums.

Anyway, my original point was that if someone is a guest in your house and starts acting like an ass, you probably immediately ask him to leave, and/or don't invite him back. If you're a storekeeper and someone does the same thing, you are probably a bit more diplomatic about it, because if they can be reached they may yet become a good customer.

It's even more clearcut with someone who's not an ass, but just a genuine idiot, slacker, obsessive or something like that.

[ajax34i]

I think that posters should have some ability to effect other posters.  I'm imagining a sort of "Lord of the Flies" sort of thing, but more subtle.

The reward for posting a nice, informative post is that it gets stickied at the top of whatever class forum or forum that it applies to.  Another reward is that a CM (blue) responds to it, perhaps with a "nice job" post.  I think that that's normally sufficient, but unfortunately these rewards have been diminished somewhat by the fact that it's been 3 years so "blue responses" aren't as novel or rare anymore, and by the fact that a nice informative post might get noticed by the CM (blues), but the devs won't reply to it and so it seems to be pointless.

The carrots are stale, and so the sticks are the only effective things left, as seems to be the consensus here.

[WindupAtheist]

I think that posters should have some ability to effect other posters.  I'm imagining a sort of "Lord of the Flies" sort of thing, but more subtle.

I can see Sinij and Slayerik subscribing to WoW just to play on the forums.   :-D

But anyway, I tend to think the current WoW forum "culture" is the result of two things.  One, obviously, is the sheer number of users and the high proportion of kiddies among them.  The other is a "professional" moderation policy where they're not allowed to crack someone's skull just because they're a douchebag.

I think they need to give into their anger, so that their turn to the dark side will be complete.  (Muahaha.)  I think they should take this Tseric guy and tell him "You're right, this place is a mess.  Start handing out forum bans left and right.  Three days the first time, seven the second, and permanent the third."  How many of the little cocksuckers are really going to cancel their accounts?  The kind of asshole who makes 900 posts about how his class needs a buff?  That guy's a fucking addict, he's not going anywhere.

[Trouble]

Why is this guy angry?  Our money tunes-up his Porsche. 

I somehow doubt he's making that much money.

[Triforcer]

Eh, that was just an old-school reference to this gem-

"Shut up and pay me your $10 a month, little man. My Porsche needs some performance upgrades." - Milo D. Cooper

[Phred]

Eh, that was just an old-school reference to this gem-

"Shut up and pay me your $10 a month, little man. My Porsche needs some performance upgrades." - Milo D. Cooper

Though Milo probably made more in 1999 dollars than any customer management rep at Blizzard by a mile or two.