Head of Allakhazam calls it quits

[Modern Angel]

People knew what playstyle the game would cater to before they started.

Honestly, I think a lot of WoW players didn't. The numbers this game has and the percentage of MMORPG virgins I run into, I don't think most people have any idea the endgame caters to lameass, no-life wastes of humanity. I think a large part of people bought it based simply on it being a Warcraft/Blizzard property.  By and large, the game up to 60 is as fun, or more fun than a lot of single player games. It's entirely possible to have no idea until you hit 60 and then get faced with the sudden shock of having nothing to do. Like I was saying in the other thread, unless they get a lot more casual content in, and fast, their numbers are going to plummet since the casuals are reaching 60 and finding the game hates them with the blinding passion of the sun. ItS had good numbers up to this point because only the hardcore had 60's, and they tend to like the shit endgame that's there. I was saying back in beta they should have put at least equal, if not more emphasis on PvP than Raiding since it was likely to attract more people interested in that than circle jerking with 40 other people.

I wasn't an MMMOG virgin but I wasn't experienced. I played UO, EQ1, DAoC and AC1. Not a single one of them lasted past the second month because they all funneled people through a grinding bottleneck of one sort or another. No, I played WoW for only one reason: it was fun. I was grinding but it sure as shit didn't FEEL like grinding. The more I've played the more I think the art direction helped, as well; everywhere I went felt colorful and alive even if there wasn't anyone else around. I'll state without shame that I was entirely ignorant of the endgame because all anyone can do with a game is assume that the same design philosophies that hold true at the intro hold true at the end.

I certainly didn't care about the Blizzard logo and still don't. I've always been bored with RTS games and found Diablo pretty one dimensional.

I've spoken to guildies in casual conversation on both servers about burnout setting in and they generally agree on a couple points.

1) The endgame grind. MC is fucking boring. Once you do MC/Ony/BWL you have NO REASON to log on other than to do the raids. Why? The game is solely based around loot and an achiever mindset. There's nothing out there in the larger world that's worth getting. That also gives the lie to the stupid hardcore/casual debate; it's raider/non-raider. As soon as we moved to raids every single one of us in the raiding rotation plays LESS than before we raided.

2) A little more "there" there. WoW never, ever lets you forget it's a game. People are starting to want stuff that makes it seem a little more like a world. Raids are on a strict progression (MC/Ony/BWL/AQ with ZG and AQ20 as Minus World). Even player housing or viable crafting would go a real long way to giving something else to do.

3) Faction grind. I don't know anyone who likes this. When it was just the Timbermaw and Argent Dawn it wasn't so bad. Now it's the cornerstone of endgame gameplay. It's just the height of fucking laziness.

Regarding huge subscription loss I don't think that's going to happen at all. What I DO think, though, is that there's a specific strata of players that will trickle away. A couple dozen here, a couple dozen there. It won't matter one bit because WoW will still gain more than they'll lose. I've never seen anything quite like this game. It's fucking everywhere. A NYT article that's not about market forces or synergy but about your next couple patches? That's nuts.

[Paelos]

I'll agree with one thing in there, faction grind is complete ass. It's the ultimate timesink and now part of everything new they release.

[Modern Angel]

I'll agree with one thing in there, faction grind is complete ass. It's the ultimate timesink and now part of everything new they release.

It irritates me on a level beyond "this sucks". It irritates me on a "godDAMN these guys are lazy" level. A monkey can come up with repeated faction grinds.

[Paelos]

A monkey can come up with repeated faction grinds.

It's true, I could.

[kaid]

One interesting side effect of the muti bg queue things is that Av is almost always up now and wsg is almost always busy but AB almost never spawns now.

WSG is ass especially if you are alliance but I am luving AV being up a lot now. I am about 2/3 the way to revered in AV and at this pace may get exhalted in a month or so. If I can get exhalted it will actually give me some gear that is a bit more equal vs all the god damn raiders I see running around in pvp.

kaid

[Phred]

Not to be overly suspicious but has anyone actually confirmed that that was the real Allakazam?

[schild]

Not to be overly suspicious but has anyone actually confirmed that that was the real Allakazam?

I'd be surprised if anyone gave a shit.

[Fabricated]

I'll agree with one thing in there, faction grind is complete ass. It's the ultimate timesink and now part of everything new they release.

It irritates me on a level beyond "this sucks". It irritates me on a "godDAMN these guys are lazy" level. A monkey can come up with repeated faction grinds.

I wouldn't mind faction grind so much if you got faction for whacking enemies of that faction like you do with the Argent Dawn, and the turn-ins weren't so fucking insane. Requiring shit from raid instances AGAIN shuts the non poopsockers out of stuff. I'm looking at YOU Thorium Brotherhood, with your relatively easy first two levels of rep (easy junk turnins to friendly, and since you spend half your waking life in BRD when you first hit 55+, you'll have a fucking bank full of Dark Iron Residue by the time you can turn it in) and then requiring us to burn a mountain of incredibly valuable resources for the rest.

The Argent Dawn I actually didn't mind at all since you get a tiny spec of rep for each decent level undead you whack, along with larger boosts for bosses, quests, and the scourgestone turnins (which you could do without even touching an elite monster or instance). It's easier to get revered with the Argent Dawn than just about any other faction in the game. You do a single Strat dead or Scholo run as a human, boom, 800-1000 rep + whatever stone turnins you get. You can do Strat for fun (I find it fun believe it or not) or for whatever loot you're pining for, and without even thinking about it get to at least honored.

Of course, this is taking into account that Strat was nerfed down into less of a gigantic clusterfuck of undead.

[Calantus]

I don't mind the rep grinds too much to be honest. No I don't find the majority of them fun, but that's why I don't do them. The timbermaw faction I don't care about at all. Yeah I could make some nice stuff if I ground out faction for them, but it's not worth it to me so I don't. Cenarion rep? Again, I don't care enough to go through that. Argent Dawn and Zandalar reps I do care about to varying degrees, but those just require me to do the instances a whole lot, something I don't find a problem. TBH I see as a guild thing. Sure there's some crazies who will grind up their rep for the +22 int enchant but for the most part you only get FR gear by upping your rep with them. The BG reps don't bother me either. I find AV and AB to be fun and up often enough that I'll eventually get up there. Hell I don't even want any of the rewards from AV and my rep is pretty high. WSG I doubt I'll ever get those bracers. I don't lose sleep over it though. I think it's basically about atitude. If you desperately want some reward from a faction or have a compulsive need to get all reps high, then yeah it's gonna suck to grind through it all.

[Modern Angel]

I'm largely the same way. AD grinds itself, not everyone needs TBH faction. It's ZG and the Silithus faction stuff that really bothers me because it's a cockblock. First time in ZG and your group miraculously smokes it and takes down Hakkar? Sorry, noobs, run it another hundred times before you can get your nifty armor. Fuck sake, that's what they're saying is for casuals? That's more hardcore than anything MC or BWL offer. At least there you get your nifties up front.

[jpark]

On a somewhat related note, people really hate Priests in PVP. I have no less than 3 hunter pets on me at any given time when I help cap the flag regardless of how many people are with me in the gigantic chaotic melee.

Priests are my favorite targets ever.  They're so squishy and soft after you make that pesky shield go away.  My favorites are the ones that just stand around trying to nuke me while I autoshot them to death. Silly priest.

In my experience the best way for a priest to be dangerous in pvp is to:  HEAL.  My favorite is to follow a mage.  Shield him, heal him and fear around him when needed.  The mage priest combination just rocks.

[Zetor]

I don't mind the rep grinds too much to be honest. No I don't find the majority of them fun, but that's why I don't do them. The timbermaw faction I don't care about at all. Yeah I could make some nice stuff if I ground out faction for them, but it's not worth it to me so I don't. Cenarion rep? Again, I don't care enough to go through that. Argent Dawn and Zandalar reps I do care about to varying degrees, but those just require me to do the instances a whole lot, something I don't find a problem. TBH I see as a guild thing. Sure there's some crazies who will grind up their rep for the +22 int enchant but for the most part you only get FR gear by upping your rep with them. The BG reps don't bother me either. I find AV and AB to be fun and up often enough that I'll eventually get up there. Hell I don't even want any of the rewards from AV and my rep is pretty high. WSG I doubt I'll ever get those bracers. I don't lose sleep over it though. I think it's basically about atitude. If you desperately want some reward from a faction or have a compulsive need to get all reps high, then yeah it's gonna suck to grind through it all.

Yeah, but you're in an uberguild.

If I was able to get Nemesis / Felheart bracers (along w/ other pieces for the uber set bonus), I wouldn't need to grind WSG faction.
If I was able to get an Azuresong Mageblade, I wouldn't need to grind AB faction.
If I was able to get an earthshaker/OEB/untamed blade/spinal reaper/askhandi, I wouldn't need to grind AV faction.
Etc.. basically, if you can get superior items by raiding, the rep grind is optional, pretty much. :p

And Zandalar faction is REALLY FRIGGIN SLOW. Come on, 1 rep per mob? Considering you need to get 21000+12000+6000+3000 to hit exalted, that's... a lot of killing. Even if you get 50 for bosses and 100 for optional bosses (200 for hakkar?), with some extra rep for doing quests. Compared to that, AD rep was/is a breeze.


-- Z.

[Calantus]

Yeah, but you're in an uberguild.

If I was able to get Nemesis / Felheart bracers (along w/ other pieces for the uber set bonus), I wouldn't need to grind WSG faction.
If I was able to get an Azuresong Mageblade, I wouldn't need to grind AB faction.
If I was able to get an earthshaker/OEB/untamed blade/spinal reaper/askhandi, I wouldn't need to grind AV faction.
Etc.. basically, if you can get superior items by raiding, the rep grind is optional, pretty much. :p

Yeah... I see what you mean. I never really thought of it that way. Always saw the rewards as either placeholders til I get better or sidegrades into stats I want more for PVP.

And Zandalar faction is REALLY FRIGGIN SLOW. Come on, 1 rep per mob? Considering you need to get 21000+12000+6000+3000 to hit exalted, that's... a lot of killing. Even if you get 50 for bosses and 100 for optional bosses (200 for hakkar?), with some extra rep for doing quests. Compared to that, AD rep was/is a breeze.

I get around 1500 rep froma full-clear (minus ghaz-whatever and the mojomadness). I can't quite recall the numbers, but I think I figured that to be 20ish ZGs, or roughly 2 months to get reverred from honored. That's not counting the time it takes to get to honored (not too much though), or to get to exalted (I don't wanna think about it...). That's is pretty damn crazy. But yeah, if I don't get that I'll just wait for transcendence if I'm lucky, or be forced to take prophecy before then if not.

[squirrel]

Faction grind is the dullest bullshit ever added to WoW. I don't mind raiding - im not in a raiding guild but i made enough friends when i was playing that i got to do MC/BWL as often as i could, but the faction system sucks balls.

That and i *hate* the contrived CTF/college football PvP. World PvP is dead and that's not helping the game.

So like Khazam i've retired my 60 rogue and 60 mage. Will return when the 60+ game is fun again, assuming that occurs.