Console makers and E-Bay sellers should all die in a fire

[Jeff Kelly]

Friday December 8th 9:00 A.M.: Shops open for the official european launch of Nintendo's Wii
Friday December 8th 9:30 A.M.: All Wii consoles completely sold out. Next shipment due December 20th.
Friday December 8th 9:31 A.M.: First Wii shows up on e-bay. Highest bid as of 14:13 P.M.: Eur. 751 ($ 997)

Do all console launch events have to be such fucking jokes? *sigh*

Some people bought 3 or 4 consoles just to ebay them. Fuckers!

This whine post is brought to you courtesy of Nintendo of Europe

[Big Gulp]

Some people bought 3 or 4 consoles just to ebay them. Fuckers!

Supply, meet demand.

[Strazos]

That's pretty fucked up though, if people were allowed to buy multiple consoles.

Fucking scalpers.

[Tebonas]

But then if people are stupid enough to buy those consoles at these prices they earned it. Those stupid fuckers are at least partly responisble for the ebay profiteers. I would love nothing more than those profiteers having to give away their Wiis to relatives they can't stand at christmas, all it needs is some common sense. A console is nothing you need THIS VERY MOMENT.

[Strazos]

Even if I made 50k a year, I still wouldn't pay these prices.

[Sky]

It's not about the stupid people paying those prices. It's about the guy who wants to get his kid a console, stands in line, but can't get one because the line is filled with opportunistic capitalists. It's the american way, and it sucks. I personally don't give a shit, I can wait a few years for good titles to come out.

I hate it when they do this for concert tickets, I've all but stopped attending concerts because it's almost impossible to get a decent seat through ticketmaster anymore. I bought Allman Brothers tickets the second they went on sale and was about 60 rows back, 4 rows from being on the lawn. In seconds. That's the system being broken.

[Margalis]

In the long run this sort of speculation is bad for the producers as well. Comics in the 90s are a good example. Speculation in comics got huge and major newspapers were running stories about how comics might be better than stocks. Sales numbers kept going up until they fell off a cliff because actual comic fans had been waning while speculator numbers had grown immensly. The apparent demand for comics was far greater than the real demand, and after the crash the speculators all left.

All the shit like hologram covers, 13 variant covers, special collector editions, etc, helped drive away everyday fans. The day after SpiderMan 1 and X-Men 1 came out they were selling for $10-$20. Even though millions were printed. The real demand was far less than that, but speculators and comic shop owners hoarded supply.

[geldonyetich]

Is it good capitalism to take advantage of a limited supply and ebay to double your money?  Yes.

Is it fair to people who don't have all day to hang out in a line and don't have enough cash to buy it for double the cost off eBay?  Yes.

I can see the points for both sides.  However, honestly, I've never found it to be good policy to side with greed.  Your wallet may be fatter, but you leave the world a worse place for others.

[geldonyetich]

Is it fair to people who don't have all day to hang out in a line and don't have enough cash to buy it for double the cost off eBay?  Yes.

No it isn't, Geldonyetich, you editless fool.

[bhodi]

Just pretend that "Preview" button really says "Post". Hit it twice before hitting that other button. No, not the spell check one, that one on the left.

[Quinton]

But then if people are stupid enough to buy those consoles at these prices they earned it. Those stupid fuckers are at least partly responisble for the ebay profiteers. I would love nothing more than those profiteers having to give away their Wiis to relatives they can't stand at christmas, all it needs is some common sense. A console is nothing you need THIS VERY MOMENT.

A coworker of mine bought a Wii a week or so ago on ebay for $40 over list -- apparently the seller just about broke even (factoring in his salestax, etc).  Of course the seller waited in a line for hours to get it.
I gather so many people were convinced that they'll make a fortune reselling Wiis on ebay that the market is pretty flooded and some buyers are getting pretty good deals.

I ran into some guy at Fry's when I was picking up some US launch titles for my imported PS3 who paid $2500 on ebay for a PS3.  That's just insane. 


- Q

[naum]

There's plenty of XBOX 360 consoles  and bundles available at local (and online) retailers.

Scarcity == $FREE_PROMOTION

[sinij]

You make mediocre overpriced console with too few good titles at release and nobody would want it. You make it limited release and people pay double to ebay sharks. Strange, isn't it?

Well there isn't enough of my posts for everyone to read, so you people should line up whole night to read them and then treat is as a gospel when you get opportunity to read them.

[Strazos]

There's plenty of XBOX 360 consoles  and bundles available at local (and online) retailers.

Scarcity == $FREE_PROMOTION

Confirmed. My GS has a good amount of both Premium and Core bundles....

But there's still time...time for people to realize they can't get their kids a Wii/PS3, and "fall back" to the 360. I work tonight, and a start of a 360 rush would not surprise me in the least.

[KapcomS]

I blame most of this (and the ensuing violence related to it) on the console manufacturers (although I'm sure Europe's launch was much less violent). They knew demand would be high. Yet they release far fewer consoles than promised, and the promised number is far fewer than demanded. Incompetence or superior bastardry, take your pick.

The funny part is how PS3s are so sought after when their launch library looks like a leper colony. I don't think 8 year olds (or 20s-30s fanatics) are capable of understanding the software side of things. The only current generation system which launched with it's "killer app" immediately available was the Wii (Zelda). The PS3 has... well, does anyone remember EverGrace for the PS2? I lost my copy, but, that game was the pits. I don't expect anything good out of their launch titles. And I've never liked XBOX or XBOX360's launch and upcoming library to begin with.

The moral of the story is to wait 6 to 18 months after a new console comes out before buying it, so you don't get raped by errors, prices, supply, quality game availability, or bears. Those 8 year olds just need to freaking wait. Give your kids a book and a football.

[geldonyetich]

The demand on the Wii I can understand somewhat, as apparently the Wii controller really is an innovation that seems to be delivering on its goal to bring a whole new level of interaction to gaming.  The PS3, however, is just PS2+.

[eldaec]

The people who buy on ebay are not smart people. This process simply transfers economic buying power to slightly smarter people. Probably does the economy a world of good.


As for the people who, as a result, don't get a console at launch? Just remember that is a startlingly small number of people. There are not enough consoles. Therefore most people were not getting one anyway. In all probability the fact that you don't have a Wii has nothing to do with people buying them to resell, and everything to do with the fact that there are not enough consoles.


And anyway. Who gives a shit? There are no games to play on these damn things anyway.

[Xanthippe]

This is nothing new.  Consoles have pretty much always been in short supply at launch.  People resold scarce commodities before eBay existed - especially things like consoles that are released right before Christmas.

Within a few months, anyone who desires should be able to walk into a store and buy a Wii, I bet.

Locally, Gamestop limited sales to one per customer, in order to cut down on resellers.  Still, it seemed like some of the people in line were resellers rather than gamers.

[Brolan]

...  Still, it seemed like some of the people in line were resellers rather than gamers.

A reporter surveyed a line and found 6 out of 7 were buying to resell on eBay. 

This is a bad sign for Sony if most of the people were lining up just to make a quick buck, and were not fans of the console.

[eldaec]

...  Still, it seemed like some of the people in line were resellers rather than gamers.

A reporter surveyed a line and found 6 out of 7 were buying to resell on eBay. 

This is a bad sign for Sony if most of the people were lining up just to make a quick buck, and were not fans of the console.

It's an even worse sign for the resellers.

And seriously, do you honestly think that reporter bothered to survey the line, or would that reporter have got better copy with less effort by just making up the statistics?


I don't even see how anyone can be a fan of the console at this point anyhow - I do see how people can be overexcited consumers who have come to an irrational belief that their life will be improved if they buy this object RIGHT NOW. But I'm not convinced that tells us anything about the long term success of the console in building a real fanbase.

[stray]

The past history of the Playstation is a good enough indicator to tell whether the PS3 will be a success. They've been king of the market for two generations. It'll take just as long to unseat them. Console makers are hard to kill, especially those with that many developers and publishers in their pocket.

Not trying to be a fanboy or anything, but I don't think this should be looked at in a vacuum.

[Trippy]

The past history of the Playstation is a good enough indicator to tell whether the PS3 will be a success. They've been king of the market for two generations. It'll take just as long to unseat them. Console makers are hard to kill, especially those with that many developers and publishers in their pocket.

Not trying to be a fanboy or anything, but I don't think this should be looked at in a vacuum.

Right, just like the N64 was such a strong successor to the SNES. Oh and how about those Sega folks?

[stray]

Yeah, look where Sega fucked up (way back in the 32x/SegaCD days), and look how long it took them to throw in the towel. That's all I'm trying to illustrate. A fanbase will take you a long, long way. Hell, Atari never really had a bonafide hit since the 2600, and they still managed to attract people with the Lynx. Once these companies build some kind of momentum, they never cash out with a screeching halt. If they build no momentum at all though (i.e. CDI or 3DO), then it's appropriate to naysay any of their future prospects.

Gamers (let alone fanboys in particular) aren't going to give up on Sony just like that. Hell, even if half of those people gave up (which they won't), Sony would still be fine.

[HaemishM]

The Lynx was a kickass console, fucked to death by a lack of titles, much like the Jaguar would have been had they actually released it on time.

[Roac]

Gamers (let alone fanboys in particular) aren't going to give up on Sony just like that. Hell, even if half of those people gave up (which they won't), Sony would still be fine.

For any compay to lose half its customers would be a crippling failure.  Sony won't crumble and die if it were to happen (as if everything rode on the PS3), but I'd be terrified to be near any Sony exec for a good two or three years if that were to happen.  The hate and fear could kill you from a distance.

[Brolan]

...  Still, it seemed like some of the people in line were resellers rather than gamers.

A reporter surveyed a line and found 6 out of 7 were buying to resell on eBay. 

This is a bad sign for Sony if most of the people were lining up just to make a quick buck, and were not fans of the console.

It's an even worse sign for the resellers.

And seriously, do you honestly think that reporter bothered to survey the line, or would that reporter have got better copy with less effort by just making up the statistics?


I don't even see how anyone can be a fan of the console at this point anyhow - I do see how people can be overexcited consumers who have come to an irrational belief that their life will be improved if they buy this object RIGHT NOW. But I'm not convinced that tells us anything about the long term success of the console in building a real fanbase.

It just seems significant that the people waiting in the cold for the launch were having visions of dollar signs in their heads, not awesome PS3 games or watching blu-ray movies.

[eldaec]

Good.

Because dollars are a much better reason for standing around outside catching pneumonia than either console games or blu-ray films.


EDIT:
And doubly so when the games are vapourware and nobody gives a shit about blu-ray.

[UnSub]

13 variant covers

Gen13 #13, right?

[Margalis]

I think it was actually Gen 13 #1, but I could be wrong. It was Gen 13 though.

Spider-Man #1 shipped with Silver, Silver in-bag, black and a gold reprint or something like that, and XMen #1 had 5 covers IIRC.

[Sky]

All the shit like hologram covers, 13 variant covers, special collector editions, etc, helped drive away everyday fans. The day after SpiderMan 1 and X-Men 1 came out they were selling for $10-$20. Even though millions were printed. The real demand was far less than that, but speculators and comic shop owners hoarded supply.

Holy crap did I make a bundle of dough during that brief time, though. Things like Punisher, PWJ, McFarlane Spidey, Phoenix-era X-Men, all way over-valued. I wish I still had those X-Men, but that spurt of speculation paid for my band's relocation to the west coast, plus some new gear. I never speculated, just cashed in on stuff I bought to read or had subs to. It was funny how the comic books shop guy reacted to my Wolverine mini-series, I think he messed himself.

But really, flash in the pan though that was, the place I sold them to was a sports shop, and they still are in business with those stupid cards. I'll never understand that one, baseball cards? Hundreds of dollars?

Same idiot I bought mint condition 1st ed AD&D books for less than half the cover price. Like...almost every one.

[Strazos]

I guess I wasn't paying attention during this "comic speculation" period or whatever. How long did you have to hold onto these things before you could make any money?


Kind of a shame, as I have some older comics. They're in pretty good condition too, but I'm fairly sure they're not worth anything.

[Sky]

Some were in my collection for years. I had been collecting comics since the late 70s. Some were fairly recent, when I was out of high school I had maybe six subscriptions - Fantastic Four, X-Men, Spidey, Punisher, PWJ, Alpha Flight, something else I forget now. I think I had traded out the Alpha Flight for something else, too.

Anyway, some were as new as 6 months old when I sold off the collection, pretty early in the speculation period, maybe 1990.

I miss a lot of them, too. I've only ever collected comics for their reading value, not their monetary value. That actually makes for good trading, because both sides can come away happier much more easily.

[HaemishM]

I guess I wasn't paying attention during this "comic speculation" period or whatever. How long did you have to hold onto these things before you could make any money?

The new variant cover stupidity? You could usually turn that around really quick. You HAD to, otherwise people would realize there wasn't any real demand for them because everyone had bought 2 of every cover made and the price would plummet. It really was very much like IPO days at dot.com stocks.

[Azazel]

All the shit like hologram covers, 13 variant covers, special collector editions, etc, helped drive away everyday fans. The day after SpiderMan 1 and X-Men 1 came out they were selling for $10-$20. Even though millions were printed. The real demand was far less than that, but speculators and comic shop owners hoarded supply.

This was the period when I slowly stopped buying comics as well. I was still buying things like Hellblazer, Preacher, Punisher titles, Hellboy, etc, and was considering getting back into some Spidey or X-Men but instead stopped totally. Not long after I considered picking up again but found that in addition to the multifoil chrome limited-release bullshit, they'd decided that the Spidey I'd known and enjoyed was actually a clone, and the real Peter Parker had been in suspended animation or some fucking thing (I only browsed through the storied in the comic shops) so I thought fuck this for a joke.

Excepting a brief period where I bought the revamped Punisher and Hellraiser/Preacher/etc again for a period, I've been out ever since. I should pick up some TPBs of the worthwhile comics sometime, I guess.

Oh, as for the Wii, K-Mart here has them, apparently. An EB I went past yesterday was sold out though. I had the world's least knowledgable and most disinterested EBgames employee server me though, so that was a new experience.

[Strazos]

Heh, I wouldn't have even considered Kmart/Sears.