The first RPG you can pay for in installments...

[Velorath]

White Wolf, the RPG makers that have caused pasty-skinned, morbidly obese teenagers and adults to dress up as vampires, recently announced their upcoming P&P RPG Ptolus.  Written by Monte Cook (best known for the 3rd Edition of D&D) and releasing next August, the core rule set will retail for $120, or you can actually pay $20 now and then $10 a month until the book is payed off.

The game is apparently based on the 3rd Edition campaign Monte Cook has been running, and uses the d20 ruleset.  White Wolf seems to be hoping that gaming groups will all throw in money to pay for this stuff.  Is the RPG market really doing well enough right now, that they think people will pay $120 for a campaign setting?

[MrHat]

White Wolf, the RPG makers that have caused pasty-skinned, morbidly obese teenagers and adults to dress up as vampires, recently announced their upcoming P&P RPG Ptolus.  Written by Monte Cook (best known for the 3rd Edition of D&D) and releasing next August, the core rule set will retail for $120, or you can actually pay $20 now and then $10 a month until the book is payed off.

The game is apparently based on the 3rd Edition campaign Monte Cook has been running, and uses the d20 ruleset.  White Wolf seems to be hoping that gaming groups will all throw in money to pay for this stuff.  Is the RPG market really doing well enough right now, that they think people will pay $120 for a campaign setting?

I can see $10/mo if 3-4 people pitch in.

[Velorath]

I'm not seeing why they would though.  The selling points seem to be "it's Monte Cook's campaign" and "there's lots of full color artwork" which doesn't really justify that kind of money.  I guess maybe if you have the world's laziest DM who doesn't want to do any work since this thing has adventures to take characters from 1-20.

[Llava]

The overpricing of P&P RPGs reaches new heights.

[Samwise]

Complete core rule set, color artwork, includes material to run a campaign from levels 1 to 20?  That's not all that bad.  For D&D, the core rulebooks will run you close to $100 all on their own (there are three books, each of which is somewhere around $30) and one of the vanilla WotC adventure modules that covers around 3 levels of play is probably gonna be at least $10.  And that doesn't even buy you an interesting "campaign," it just gets you a series of mediocre one-shots in a thoroughly generic fantasy world.

Against that, $120 for a fully developed ruleset with cool campaign material doesn't seem that bad.  Assuming that it does in fact contain EVERYTHING and there isn't a ton of crap hidden away in extra supplements.  And that the campaign doesn't suck balls.  That's key.

It also stacks up pretty well against the cost of getting a bunch of people MMORPG subscriptions for a month or two, I'd say.  Remember, a single set of PnP books can entertain a good six people or so, potentially for years.

[Velorath]

Complete core rule set, color artwork, includes material to run a campaign from levels 1 to 20?  That's not all that bad.  For D&D, the core rulebooks will run you close to $100 all on their own (there are three books, each of which is somewhere around $30) and one of the vanilla WotC adventure modules that covers around 3 levels of play is probably gonna be at least $10.  And that doesn't even buy you an interesting "campaign," it just gets you a series of mediocre one-shots in a thoroughly generic fantasy world.

Against that, $120 for a fully developed ruleset with cool campaign material doesn't seem that bad.  Assuming that it does in fact contain EVERYTHING and there isn't a ton of crap hidden away in extra supplements.  And that the campaign doesn't suck balls.  That's key.

It also stacks up pretty well against the cost of getting a bunch of people MMORPG subscriptions for a month or two, I'd say. 
Remember, a single set of PnP books can entertain a good six people or so, potentially for years.

I don't know if this thing has a core rule set other than just the standard d20 rules.  They tell you about the CD-ROM that comes with it a couple of time and they're sure to mention that Cook ran this campaign for "industry celebs including two editors of Dragon® magazine, two editors of Dungeon®, three Wizards of the Coast roleplaying designers and three editors, and even the D&D business manager", but they don't mention any rulebooks from what I saw.

It sounds like it's 640 pages of campaign description and adventures with some extras, so it's not exactly like comparing it to the core rulebooks.  Most gamers I know have no problem shelling out money on various rule books and sourcebooks so they can read through them on their own.  Most players I know are less enthusiastic though about about buying something only the DM will ever read, but then I most of the DM I knew didn't really use store-bought modules or campaigns anyway.

[CmdrSlack]

When I was pricing games at GenCon, $75 would have bought me both of the basic GURPS sourcebooks.  For some reason this deal doesn't shock me.  I think it's time to either find a gaming group in Chicago or make my own campaign setting using the d20 system and other OGL sources.

I'm sure as shit not shelling out dough for games at the current prices, and I don't think my parents held on to all of my old PnP stuff that I left at home years ago.

[schild]

This is a good price, if we ever get the CoC campaign finished...I'd be interested.

[Strazos]

 

[Margalis]

Um...can't people make their own campaigns? That's kind of the fun of D&D no? I never understood that whole thing at all. Do I really need to spend money so someone else can make up some retarded story about "dinosaur island" or something?

A really good campaign would be pretty tailored towards the people in the group as well.

[Roac]

Um...can't people make their own campaigns? That's kind of the fun of D&D no?

...no, not really.  Only the DM can make campaings, and everyone else plays in it.  Making a campaign is fun if you're extremely imaginative, have tons of time on your hands, and enjoy the work.  If any of the above don't apply it's much easier to just find (buy) one.  That's what my subscription to Dungeon was for - take pre-made adventures, change them around a bit to personalize them or fit them into our group, and go at it.  They're generally fairly well balanced already, have gobs of story, and doesn't sack days of my time.

But yeah people *can* make their own stuff, and it generally is fun to do.  It's just that other people are better at it, and you don't always have the time.

[Samwise]

I wrote all my own adventures while I was in high school, since for at least three hours out of any day that I was in class, I had nothing better to do than scribble adventure ideas and sketch maps on graph paper.  Now that I have less free time and an atrophied imagination I tend to gravitate more toward storebought adventures.

[CmdrSlack]

Um...can't people make their own campaigns? That's kind of the fun of D&D no? I never understood that whole thing at all. Do I really need to spend money so someone else can make up some retarded story about "dinosaur island" or something?

A really good campaign would be pretty tailored towards the people in the group as well.

Part of the problem (aside from the stuff already said) is that designing special rule sets is a pain in the ass.  I want to use a world that has both guns and magic, but both on a very limited level.  GURPS would be great, but the books are bloated with whitespace and art and are $75 for the two I need to run the basic rules. 

That's the problem with the industry, really.  If you want to get special rule sets or flexibile rule sets and not design them yourself, you have to shell out for tons of books.  All of them are fluffed out with stories, whitespace and art, thus making them LOOK substantial.  I refuse to support that.

Sadly, this means that the campaign setting I want to design, and the rules I need to make it work will have to be written by me, or I have to be less cheap.

[Samwise]

CmdrSlack, you might wanna check out d20 Modern.  It seems to be the spiritual successor to GURPs as far as letting you do a little of everything, and all of the "core" stuff is in one rulebook rather than spread out over two or three.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Have you taken a look at Fudge?

http://www.fudgerpg.com/

I looked through the "book", printed it, and started designing a system I wanted to use for a sci-fi space game. It is pretty robust and you can do pretty much whatever you want with it.

$120 for a stack of modules? No thanks. I'll use my imagination and come up with something better that my players will enjoy.

Last time I bought something close to that expensive from White Wolf it was the Exalted Collector's Edition Set. Good set, awesome art, game looked fun, but didn't interest my players. :(

[MrHat]

Have you taken a look at Fudge?

http://www.fudgerpg.com/

I looked through the "book", printed it, and started designing a system I wanted to use for a sci-fi space game. It is pretty robust and you can do pretty much whatever you want with it.

$120 for a stack of modules? No thanks. I'll use my imagination and come up with something better that my players will enjoy.

Last time I bought something close to that expensive from White Wolf it was the Exalted Collector's Edition Set. Good set, awesome art, game looked fun, but didn't interest my players. :(

Ya, but FUDGER PG.

[Big Gulp]

Am I alone here, or is there anyone else that can no longer play PnP RPGs?  Yeah, sure, they were great when I was a kid, but whenever I tried to play as an adult it was like trying to recreate the magic I felt then but with a different group of friends I wasn't as close to.  I just got used to that playstyle, don't want to do anything different, and refuse to adapt to others.

There's also the fact that I have problems taking the games seriously at all anymore.

[Llava]

I never got a chance to play a good PnP RPG so... I can say that yes, as an adult I cannot play PnP RPGs.

(Though it's not for lack of trying when I was a kid, but no one was cut out to be a storyteller.  "You're walking through the forest and three goblins attack you."  Not fun.)

[schild]

THat's not so bad. I played as a kid and then as a teenager and every now and then through college. By college though it became:

"Three Goblins Attack you. What do you do?"

"I fuck them in the ass with this shoehorn that came with my new wingtips."

The adult sense of humor is a sad one.

[Strazos]

I never got a chance to play a good PnP RPG so... I can say that yes, as an adult I cannot play PnP RPGs.

(Though it's not for lack of trying when I was a kid, but no one was cut out to be a storyteller.  "You're walking through the forest and three goblins attack you."  Not fun.)

Kind of the same here.

Also, we were a bunch of rules lawyers, so that put a kink in the fun.

[Trippy]

Am I alone here, or is there anyone else that can no longer play PnP RPGs?  Yeah, sure, they were great when I was a kid, but whenever I tried to play as an adult it was like trying to recreate the magic I felt then but with a different group of friends I wasn't as close to.  I just got used to that playstyle, don't want to do anything different, and refuse to adapt to others.

I played PnP RPGs through college but haven't played since and I've played so many CRPGs since that time that I'm not sure I could handle the slow pace of PnP combat anymore.

[Ezdaar]

I played as a kid and took a break then started up again in college. I took a group of people who had never played and ran a game for them every week for a bit over four years. I find I can also jump in just about any game someone is running and have fun. I have playstyles I prefer but I find pen and paper games in general to be leagues above anything else out there due to the complete freedom to do whatever you want.

On that note are any of you Phoenix area f13ers interested in trying out a game sometime? My normal group seems to have not moved with me and I've been really itching to try out Iron Heroes.

[AOFanboi]

The overpricing of P&P RPGs reaches new heights.

Ah, another 3E D&D buyer pissed at the 3.5E - like me.

Then again, I do own Hero System versions 4.0, 4.1 (Champions Deluxe) and 5.0. But they all had the decency to some in one book.

[schild]

Current: FATE, HoneyComb, Meteos

What is Honeycomb?

[AOFanboi]

What is Honeycomb?

In short: A very improved Minesweeper. In long: A $20 shareware hex-board puzzle game with moving bees you try to "freeze" while uncovering the whole board.