The Sims 4

[Mithas]

EA has announced The Sims 4. Doesn't come as a surprise but on the tail of the SimCity debacle it should be interesting what they do with it.

EA.com

Edit: Spelling

[Paelos]

I wonder how long before they announce it's going to be an always online MMO feature pack?

[Sjofn]

Hopefully the Sims look more like they did in the Sims 2 than they did in the Sims 3. And use the more fun animations for making out and stuff in the Sims 2 instead of them all being weirdly Puritan like they were in the Sims 3. 

I don't think the Sims 4 will be as as the SimCity thing, simply because they already have a gazillion people playing it, they're not trying to drum up interest in an IP that's been slumbering for a decade, or anything like that. They know pretty well what works for the Sims, I doubt very much they'd want to take any chances killing their glorious golden goose.

And if they do, eh. The Sims 3 isn't as creaky as the Sims 2 was when they moved on, so I am content either way. 

[Mithas]

I doubt very much they'd want to take any chances killing their glorious golden goose.

The problem is I don't think they think they are "taking chances". They think that always online is a benefit. Calling it now, SimCity repeat with servers and no local saves.

[Sjofn]

Always online, like it or not, is a benefit to them. But after SimCity, I think they would indeed consider moving the Sims to always online - especially since it's Maxis again - taking a chance. That said, the Sims already has online features if you care to use them (I don't), so no, it wouldn't be any great leap for them to justify going always online, assuming a lot of the housewives use it (I honestly have no idea how popular those features are).

If they do essentially attempt to re-make the Sims Online, they would indeed be making a huge mistake. I just don't think they will. The Sims is way, way, way too important a franchise for them and Maxis to cock up like they did with SimCity.

[Merusk]

They announced it and it's coming out in a year so there's already a bunch of work done on it.  I'd guess they had all sorts of plans to make it always-online but may take some or all of it out in the next year.  Given that it took the mods a week to show what BS it was for SimCity, a year for Sims4 seems right.

[jth]

They're already announcing it as offline:

(...) The Sims 4 celebrates the heart and soul of the Sims themselves, giving players a deeper connection with the most expressive, surprising and charming Sims ever in this single-player offline experience.

http://www.ea.com/news/the-sims-4-in-development-for-pc-and-mac

[Mithas]

I hate EA. So they are going offline with a game which is arguably more geared towards social/online interaction and they ruined SimCity. Thanks guys.

[Sjofn]

I don't think the Sims is particularly geared towards "online." The point of the Sims is to control all the peoples. Other people ruin that.  

That said, I'm sure it will have online features, they'll just be optional. Like if I really wanted to, I could spam my facebook feed with shit my Sims are up to already, I can send my Sims to go visit other people's towns if I wanted to, etc.

The Sims is well established and they are really careful with it, because it is nothing but moneyhats already. SimCity was neither at this point, so I'm not surprised they fucked that up but are being extra cautious not to fuck up the Sims. They know what works for the Sims. They know how to shake the Sims' user base until all their money falls out already. They're not going to screw with that until it stops working.


edit: and SWEET, if that little set of eyes at the bottom of the announcement jth linked is any indication, the new Sims ARE going to look more like the Sims 2 ones. Yaaaaaay!

[Mithas]

Sorry, I'm just bitter. I want other franchises to be ruined besides the ones that I like.

[Tebonas]

Have I just read Sim City wasn't well established? In what Bizarro World are we living now?

I'm glad for Sims players they don't ruin that as well, but Sim City WAS an established name and they would have made tons of money with it if they hadn't screwed up that much. Word of mouth was devastating on that one.

[Samwise]

I feel like Sim City had a big following amongst gamers in their thirties, but it wasn't really a household name in the modern era like the Sims games were.  Those have a much broader appeal and are probably far more familiar to more people at this point.

[Ingmar]

Have I just read Sim City wasn't well established? In what Bizarro World are we living now?

I'm glad for Sims players they don't ruin that as well, but Sim City WAS an established name and they would have made tons of money with it if they hadn't screwed up that much. Word of mouth was devastating on that one.

It had been what, a decade since the last one? The franchise was dormant, millions of gamers have been created in those intervening years who had never heard of or at least never seen SimCity.

[Merusk]

Yep, SimCity was well-established for 35+ year old male geeks.  You're a less powerful demo than 16+ females AND the portion 35+ male geeks who enjoy the vanilla game but fall off at expansion time.  (<- this guy.)

[Sjofn]

Have I just read Sim City wasn't well established? In what Bizarro World are we living now?

I'm glad for Sims players they don't ruin that as well, but Sim City WAS an established name and they would have made tons of money with it if they hadn't screwed up that much. Word of mouth was devastating on that one.

It was not well-established in a recent, well-oiled, money-making machine for the past 13 years like the Sims is. The last "real" SimCity was SC4, which came out ten freaking years ago and did not make them all the moneyhats they could stand like the Sims has. The last thing with the SimCity name on it was SimCity Societies, which was SIX years ago, and the main thing I remember about that was the crying that it wasn't a real SimCity game (and to be fair, it was not very SimCity ... had it not had that label slapped on it, I think it would've been received better). The Sims, on the other hand, has had a release of some sort roughly every six months since 2000. It has made all the money. It is easily one of their most important IPs.

So yeah, sorry. I love SimCity too, but to think it was anywhere near as important as The Sims in terms of "established, known-quality, money-making entity" is just pants on head.

[Tebonas]

There is a difference between not being the best horse in the stable and shooting the horse and making sausages out of it.

I daresay they lost more money on sales they didn't make (for this Sim City and future games) than they would have lost to pirated copies otherwise.

Maybe Sims 4 being Offline playable was a reaction to that, maybe Sim City was a trial balloon that failed spectacularly and they are cured of such notions in the foreseeable future. At least something good would have come out of it then.

Still, despite the last ten years, there were better targets to make into sausages.

[Sjofn]

I'm just saying that SimCity was completely open to having the formula fucked around with in a way that the Sims definitely is not, because they hadn't even released a SimCity-named game for six years, and not a "proper" one for ten. They wanted to lure fresh blood in, and figure out if they could rattle around people who play SimCity for money by doing x, y and z. If you can't fuck around with the formula on a game no one has given a shit about for ten years, what CAN you fuck with? Did it go horribly wrong? Yes. Although even that was less "always online" and more "completely half-assing all the features it was supposed to have."

Yeah, releasing a shitty game hurt them, but the base they were working with - let's try these different things and see if it freshens up this all-but-dead-anyway IP we have - wasn't particularly wacky. They just utterly failed to execute it properly.

[Mithas]

5-star drive, 3-star talent?

[Sjofn]

I think you're overselling the talent, I am lead to believe SimCity was more like 1-star. 

Which makes me sad, mind you. Like I said, I loved SimCity. I wanted to love the new version. But instead I didn't even buy it, because . But at no point did I fear they'd cock up the Sims 4 so badly. The Sims 4 may still be a disaster, but it would be an entirely different kind of disaster!

[Ingmar]

There is a difference between not being the best horse in the stable and shooting the horse and making sausages out of it.

I daresay they lost more money on sales they didn't make (for this Sim City and future games) than they would have lost to pirated copies otherwise.

Maybe Sims 4 being Offline playable was a reaction to that, maybe Sim City was a trial balloon that failed spectacularly and they are cured of such notions in the foreseeable future. At least something good would have come out of it then.

Still, despite the last ten years, there were better targets to make into sausages.

The 'always online' part of Sim City V is the tiniest of its problems. The game is a total mechanical failure in ways that have nothing to do with being online, and IMO it would have failed just as hard if it was playable offline as it did playable online.

If the game was any good in and of itself, the always on part would just be grumbling from certain quarters rather than a 'omg disaster' problem.

[Tarami]

I wonder how long before they announce it's going to be an always online MMO feature pack?

I bet the goal is to be able to play The Sims on Sim City maps, and be able to visit neighbouring towns. Surely it's no coincidence Maxis is involved, unlike last time.

[Ingmar]

I wonder how long before they announce it's going to be an always online MMO feature pack?

I bet the goal is to be able to play The Sims on Sim City maps, and be able to visit neighbouring towns. Surely it's no coincidence Maxis is involved, unlike last time.

That's just a result of restructuring at EA. They moved TSS into the Maxis label, much like they moved Mythic into the Bioware label.

[Tarami]

Maybe.

I realized it's unlikely in any case, because that could in theory be cool but would require a lot of effort. Making games isn't about ambition once you've passed a certain budget, it's about making back the money.

As far as the game... a wary horray? I think Sims 3 was a very well designed and fun game which felt unexpectedly uncynical if you manage to ignore the microtransactions. Hell, even Sims Medieval was a pretty well-made (but sorta weird) game that seemed like it had been made by someone who cared most of the time.

I think cynicism is particularly lethal to the "dollhouse experience" you get with The Sims and hopefully EA recognizes that aswell. There's nothing that kills your mood for childlike play like cynicism.

[Ratman_tf]

Man, it feels like Sims3 was just out. 

I didn't like nor play 3 nearly as much as 2. The graphics and especially the sims themselves didn't look as good.

[Sjofn]

Man, Sims 3 has been out forever. Well, OK, since 2009, but it had a longer life than the Sims 2, I am pretty sure.

On the upside, the couple of eyes down along the bottom of one of the announcements makes it look like the art style is going to go back towards the Sims 2, which I am very pleased about. Visually, the Sims 2 was the best of them, imo.


edit: And I liked the Sims Medieval too! I just had to accept it was only ... sort of the Sims. You know? It had far superior facial hair to the Sims 3 too. :P

[Lantyssa]

They already tried moving the Sims online once, and it bombed.  (Actually a couple of times.)  I guess everyone forgot because it was that bad.

[Sjofn]

Oh, I remember the Sims Online, and I remember knowing it was going to utterly fail (because seriously guys, the point is to NOT deal with real people). :P

The Facebook Sims game isn't too bad, though.

[Paelos]

I was kidding more than suggesting EA would do that in this environment. They were too chickenshit to put DRM on Sims 3, even though they really wanted to.

[rk47]

[tmp]

The Facebook Sims game isn't too bad, though.

Was; they announced "intention" to shut that one down too a few weeks ago

[Yegolev]

Sorry, I'm just bitter. I want other franchises to be ruined besides the ones that I like.

Don't feel bad.  The Sims has always been shitty.

[Sjofn]

The Facebook Sims game isn't too bad, though.

Was; they announced "intention" to shut that one down too a few weeks ago

They are so weird. Their Facebook games are actually pretty entertaining, usually, but they shut them down at the drop of a hat.

[Merusk]

They probably shoveled too much cash into them only to discover that people are long over spending money onetime wasters like FarmVille.

[Sjofn]

True, EA's Facebook games are actually surprisingly light on the punching-you-in-the-nuts-until-money-falls-out aspect of most Facebook games.