Elder Scrolls MMO in development?

[Malakili]

Sorry, who *has* pulled off the complexity and polish needed in an MMO? If the alleged standard is something that no more than 5% of the products meet, it's not a standard.

I think the argument is more along the lines of - if they can't release a stable single player game how will they manage to release a even minimally functional MMO?   I don't know that the argument is particularly good, but that I think it is different than just "they won't polish it enough."

The real problem as far as I am concerned is that in order to do this right they will either need to 1) heavily instance or phase the game or 2) make it so nothing matters (or of course 3) actually make a proper open world game  ).   But the problem is that I'm not really interested in one or two and the elder scrolls IP isn't enough to get me on board for a little while the same way, say, Lord of the Rings is. 

[blackwulf]

With regard to proper polish, let's look at one element, the UI: I would rate the UI of Skyrim a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10.  It was a step backward for pc gaming.  I'd rate most of the released MMO's in the last 5 years a 5-10 with regard to UI.  SWTOR sitting at a 5 and Rift around an 8.  I'm fairly certain that Firor's team will at least hit a 6.  I guess each of us has to determine what we consider acceptable for an MMO at release.  I'm pretty forgiving of some things if the gameplay is fun.  Skyrim's UI was so bad that it actually broke my immersion on many occasions, so my tolerance is probably in the 5+ range.

Another concern I've heard is that they licensed the Hero Engine in 2007.  Do any of you actually know if the engine itself is terrible or if it was just Bioware's implementation and modification of it that made it function so poorly that they had to pull all the high res textures and advanced options?

[Ingmar]

If you make Skyrim a 1, it leaves no space on the scale for Oblivion.

[blackwulf]

If you make Skyrim a 1, it leaves no space on the scale for Oblivion.

I don't remember hating the UI in Oblivion as much as I did Skyrim.  Maybe it was already modded by the time I got ahold of it?  I don't remember to be honest.  Was it worse?

[Malakili]

If you make Skyrim a 1, it leaves no space on the scale for Oblivion.

I don't remember hating the UI in Oblivion as much as I did Skyrim.  Maybe it was already modded by the time I got ahold of it?  I don't remember to be honest.  Was it worse?

It was better in some areas and worse in some areas in my opinion.  Both clearly had console controls in mind when they were designed.  Oblivions was in my opinion less intuitive and more confusing, but actually a little better once you got used to it.  Skyrim's was easier to use off the bat, but quite clunky and wasted huge amounts of space.

We're comparing piles of shit though.

[Ingmar]

I was able to play Skyrim with an unmodded UI, I couldn't deal with it with Oblivion. It's all a bit subjective though, yeah.

[shiznitz]

Bad UIs just baffle me.  They are how the player interacts with the damn game.  It should be one of the highest priorities and that is not asking a lot since there have been so many UIs modded by players that tell devs exactly what players care about.

[blackwulf]

Bad UIs just baffle me.  They are how the player interacts with the damn game.  It should be one of the highest priorities and that is not asking a lot since there have been so many UIs modded by players that tell devs exactly what players care about.

I often wonder about this myself.  You'd think with hundreds of millions in the budget, it shouldn't be so hard for a development team to actually look at modern MMO's to see what has been added or innovated that the players really like.  UI features are just one example.  Some other things that are often tacked on after player discontent is known: Housing, social abilities (yes people do like to sit in chairs), meaningful crafting, some sort of LFG tool (not necessarily a group builder and port to dungeon thing ala Rift and WOW, but at least a UI interface where you can list your party looking for members like in DDO and LOTRO), I could go on and on.  Seriously, don't make your game in a vaccuum - send some lackeys out to level up in the other MMO's and see what is cool and, yes, copy it.

[UnSub]

Pretty sure that Bethseda say they did no external game testing on Skyrim - all tests were done in-house using internal staff. The fact the game sold 10m+ copies is seen as validation of that approach (by them, anyway).

The UI is one of those areas where they should have been using external testers.

[Teleku]

UI of Skyrim had issues at certain points (trading items, enchanting), but overall I was fine with it and had no problems.  Agree with Ingmar that Oblivions was much worst (though I still played it un-moded without to much trouble).  Giving Skyrims UI a 1 is just crazy land.

[Nija]

Bethsoft and Elder Scrolls were both in a place where I could overlook the UI after some initial bitching.

There was so many great things beyond the UI, it sucks that maybe if it was a persons' first experience with the series that they would pass it up because of that.

Now, if it was a new company with a new IP and they had the same UI, they would be brushed under the rug and never heard from again. Well, maybe not - look at the Gothic series. Does anyone remember Gothic and what a shit-show those controls were?