Martial Arts for kids

[Jherad]

Did both Tang Soo Do (similar to Taekwondo) and Jujutsu when younger, and would heartily recommend them both as kid friendly, if you can find a good school. Great confidence builders, fun and disciplined without being overly authoritarian. The former being probably better for fitness, and the latter more of a thinking game.

[gryeyes]

How do you convince your significant other, a female, that self defense is a worthwhile pursuit and not just an excuse for a seven year-old to go hit other people, or get hit in return?  I'd really like to send my oldest son to...something...but my wife is dead set against it.

Not framing the issue as "self defense" would be the first fucking step. Your  7 year old kid is not learning how to defend themselves from others. Unless you want to teach your little kid about violence and the methodology of distrust(self defense begins with identifying threats) and fucking up other people in the most efficient manner possible probably should not bring it up.

For practical application AND the whole structure and discipline aspect you really are not going to find something better than boxing or wrestling. Both based around "sport" both based around "sparring" and both immediately applicable in real life. You can also wrestle through school so that is an added bonus. Dont take your kids into a TKD or Akido class expecting them to learn how to defend themselves.

[MahrinSkel]

On general principles, I'd recommend an inherently defensive art (such as Aikido) for kids.  Not only is it philosophically preferable, but it's more immediately *useful*, small children lack the mass for a "hard" style to have enough effect on the target to let offense be their defense.  I learned a variant of Karate that was pure power-strike oriented (people with broken jaws don't talk back, people with shattered knees don't run), but always had the most trouble when sparring/fighting against someone using Aikido or a related "soft" style oriented on redirection and joint locks.  If your reflexes are all tuned towards maximum impact on the target with total physical commitment, getting your strike redirected leaves you a little...out of position.

Krav Maga is a good blend of offense and defense, but it's hard to find a good instructor for it outside the really big cities.  However, it's purely physical, no mental "eye that cannot see itself" mental aspects (which can be a plus or minus, depending on your own opinion on Zen and Tao philosophy).

--Dave

[Nebu]

Did Judo go out of fashion?  I always felt that it was an incredibly useful form in terms of philosophy and body awareness.   

[Trippy]

For adults I think Jujutsu is probably more popular now here in the US, thanks to the rise of MMA competitions. Dunno which form would be better for a child, though.

[squirrel]

On general principles, I'd recommend an inherently defensive art (such as Aikido) for kids.  Not only is it philosophically preferable, but it's more immediately *useful*, small children lack the mass for a "hard" style to have enough effect on the target to let offense be their defense.  I learned a variant of Karate that was pure power-strike oriented (people with broken jaws don't talk back, people with shattered knees don't run), but always had the most trouble when sparring/fighting against someone using Aikido or a related "soft" style oriented on redirection and joint locks.  If your reflexes are all tuned towards maximum impact on the target with total physical commitment, getting your strike redirected leaves you a little...out of position.

As someone who has 6 years Win Chun i would agree with this 100%. Akido and such are much better for childrens ability if you don't intend to make them killing machines,*and* the styles are more effective for the average human.

[Endie]

Did Judo go out of fashion?  I always felt that it was an incredibly useful form in terms of philosophy and body awareness.  

Yep, I'm the third-generation of my family to practise judo, and I'd hugely recommend it.  It has let me fix situations without having to really hurt people on more occasions than I could count (often, but not always, on the rugby pitch).  Great for self-control, spatial and balance awareness, and doesn't necessarily look all that aggressive if you are trying to placate the partner as you describe.  All the same, it can get you out of some pretty hopeless situations if you really need to use that side of it (again, I speak from experience).

Also less risk of broken fingers (especially the pinkies) and little-toes than some of the impact-centric arts.  Those kicks and strikes do exist in formal kata but you'll never find kids actually using them and they're not used in practise or in bouts.

Edit: also, the rigid formalism of judo is kinda cool when you're a kid, or at least I found it to be so.  It's a huge contrast from just about anything else you experience around you in the west.

[Sheepherder]

How do you convince your significant other, a female, that self defense is a worthwhile pursuit and not just an excuse for a seven year-old to go hit other people, or get hit in return?  I'd really like to send my oldest son to...something...but my wife is dead set against it.

Tell her it's exceedingly hard for your leg to accidentally be bent two ways at once when there's only two people on the field and a burly guy who could kick the shit out of a bull is watching.

[Vision]

My parents put me in martial arts when I was 4. I got a black belt in Karate when I was 12, and a second degree when I was 16. It was more or less my life when I was younger as I never did any formal sports.

More important than finding a good instructor is not letting your kid quit, which she will most likely want to do more than once. The American martial arts scene is largely inspired by the European adaptations of Asian fighting styles, which means it is largely an adaptation of an adaptation. It has gotten better over the years, but if you were looking for practical self defense techniques to teach your daughter, then Tae Kwon Do, Karate, and Judo are in essence a lot of bullshit. Yet the most important factor in teaching your kid discipline through martial arts is ignoring their requests to quit. Make them stick it out until they get their black belt, a good instructor comes secondary to that.

As far as actually choosing a fighting style, unless you are concerned with practicality, then let her check out various martial arts movies and pick which one looks the coolest.

[Grimwell]

Make them stick it out until they get their black belt, a good instructor comes secondary to that.

I would like to politely and respectfully voice my dissent to this opinion. A black belt from a poor instructor is not worth having. I've seen more than one studio that gives them out to kids like candy. This may make them feel good, but they don't earn it, learn anything about themselves in the process, and rarely learn anything useful.

It's like getting a black belt at McDonald's with your kids Happy Meal at that point. Sure, the kids love the food and the toy, but the food isn't good for them and the toy either breaks or gets lost within a few days.

[Vision]

I would like to politely and respectfully voice my dissent to this opinion. A black belt from a poor instructor is not worth having. I've seen more than one studio that gives them out to kids like candy. This may make them feel good, but they don't earn it, learn anything about themselves in the process, and rarely learn anything useful.
It's like getting a black belt at McDonald's with your kids Happy Meal at that point. Sure, the kids love the food and the toy, but the food isn't good for them and the toy either breaks or gets lost within a few days.

Agreed. But in my opinion a good instructor isn't there to be liked, but to be respected. It is great if the child likes the instructor, but that shouldn't get in their way of being taught discipline and perseverance, as stoic as that sounds. This means a lot of kids dislike their instructor because they are reprimanded for goofing off in class, and then they complain to mom and dad about how mean the instructor is. Therefore if the parents let the child quit just because they are mad at their instructor, they never learn the valuable life lessons that martial arts is there for. It's not that the instructor isn't important, but the parents need to push their kid to continue forward despite the difficulty, which in my mind is already required before anyone enrolls a child into martial arts.

But yeah, I totally agree about the black belt thing. The entire belt system (white, gold, orange, green, etc) is a western idea so that students have some notion of progress. It is a business tool which keeps people interested and moving forward vs a white and black system for life long adherents. A lot of black belt tests are a joke these days.

[Grimwell]

Yup. We had different words for the same thing.

An instructor can be hated, and still be good. :)