Motherboard CPU help

[raydeen]

Need some help picking out a new CPU motherboard for a friend. He has an Asus A8-N SLI board that is possibly fried (or the CPU is, not sure). We've decided to just go for a new board and chip. Any recommendations? I'd prefer going Intel this time, but I"m open to suggestions. Also, 32 or 64bits? He was running a 64 bit CPU but only 32 bit Vista. We bought 4 gigs (before we narrowed the craziness down to the motherboard) and if we stick with 32 it'll of course make 1 gig stick unnecessary (although Vista did seem to use all 4 for some reason even though it was 32 bit). The only thing I'm concerned with at this point is making sure the new board is compatible with his video card and memory. Below are the relevant specs that need to match: (he's only got 1 video card right now and had wanted to upgrade to two - do both cards have to be the exact same from the same manufacturer or can they be mixed and matched as long as the model number is the same?)

Chipsets
North Bridge    NVIDIA nForce4 SLI
Memory
Number of Memory Slots    4×184pin
Memory Standard    DDR 400
Maximum Memory Supported    4GB
Channel Supported    Dual Channel
Expansion Slots
PCI Express x16    2 x PCI Express x 16 (SLI mode : x8 , x8 ; Default Single VGA mode : x16, x1)
PCI Express x1    2
PCI Slots    3
Storage Devices
PATA    2 x ATA100 4 Dev. Max
PATA RAID    NV RAID 0/1/0+1 JBOD
SATA 3Gb/s    4
SATA RAID    NV RAID 0/1/0+1 JBOD


This machine has given me no end of headache. At various points I thought the memory was bad, then the wireless card, then the hard drive, then finally the board/CPU. Any help is appreciated.

[fuser]

Need some help picking out a new CPU motherboard for a friend. He has an Asus A8-N SLI board that is possibly fried (or the CPU is, not sure). We've decided to just go for a new board and chip. Any recommendations?

Something tho you didn't mention whats his price range?

If the motherboard is fried, and your unsure about the CPU, ram might be effected also. If you ditch the motherboard and CPU your DDR ram will be unusable also. So your better off looking at moving to an Intel core2 based system or if he can afford it an i5 setup. Check out Tigerdirect bundles for some decent savings and pricing info on cpu/ram/motherboard to guesstimate pricing before you get into the nitty gritty parts.

Core2 Bundles
i5 bundles

[Trippy]

No up-to-date chipset will work with his memory. Everything is DDR2 or DDR3 now. He should ditch all the major components including the video card unless it's something he bought relatively recently and start over. Multiple slot SLI support on Intel is problematic now now that NVIDIA is not allowed to build chipsets that support Intel's latest sockets (for the i5 and i7 CPUs), pending a court decision which will take a while. Multiple slot SLI support on AMD's latest CPUs is not much better. If he really really wants SLI he should just get a dual GPU card.

As an aside I actually have that same motherboard (well, mine's a Premium model) and has served me very well once I got the dual-core issues sorted out.

Edit: will

[raydeen]

Feck. The memory is pretty much brand new (a few months old at any rate). We had originally thought that memory was the culprit and just went and bought 4 new sticks. This system has played cat and mouse with me for over half a year, and he and his dad had been futzing with it even before that. Every time I thought I had it nailed down, something else would go crazy. Well, I'll check out the bundles and I suppose I could sell the memory at some point.

Price range, I'm not sure what he's up for. I'll do some digging based on the recommendations and let him take it from there.

Thanks for the help all. I haven't bought a desktop since about '01 and have really gotten out of the hardware loop. Everything's been laptops for me since about '03.

[Engels]

I had the same board and it suffered from what sounds like similar symptoms. The issue is something on the motherboard itself, and its not fixable. If you do individual memory SLOT test on each of the memory slots, you'll find that all your memory sticks work, but only in one of the pair of slots. Essentially, you cannot run dual-channel, since one of the channels is horked.

Memtest86 did not work too well for me for this test, however. I used Windows Memory Test, which is found on Ultimate Boot CD. You have to run the extended test and it finds the odd errors only after running the 4th type of test (Forget the name, I think its MATS+).

If it is this problem, then you can continue running the machine in single channel memory, but I found that the machine was continually unstable thereafter.

[Sheepherder]

The PC is old, upgrading it at this point is just throwing money away.  Likewise with dual GPU's for the most part.

[Kageh]

An addendum on dual GPU set-up, if you friend still wants to do that after solving MB/CPU issues: With NVIDIA SLI, since last year, the video cards don't have to run at the same clock speeds. AFAIK the only restriction left is that it needs to be the same graphic chip and the same amount of video RAM. I'm currently running two GTX 260s at different clock speeds so I know it works. It used to be the way that the cards would have to be synchronized in clock speeds, usually meaning the slower card was overclocked by the driver.

Generally speaking, the SLI technology has matured and the NVIDIA drivers have come a long way dealing with annoying stuff like micro-stuttering, freezes and power consumption. Crossfire (the ATI "SLI implementation") has a harder time with micro-stuttering. On the other hand, ATI Crossfire is supported natively on almost all AM2+/AM3 mainboards you'd buy, while NVIDIA has lots of issues licensing the stuff with Intel, as Trippy pointed out. But, if your friend would upgrade to an i7/X58 chipset (which might or not be an option, depending on what deals you get, and is pretty much upper end of the price range), that chipset supports SLI natively, and does so quite well too.

[Lantyssa]

There's really no need to run SLI these days.  For the price of two cards you can buy a single better card and it will have more than enough performance for even demanding users.

[Kageh]

There's really no need to run SLI these days.  For the price of two cards you can buy a single better card and it will have more than enough performance for even demanding users.

If you already own the X type of mid-range card, for the price of another X card, you probably gain 40-60% FPS improvement in your games if your CPU is not bottlenecking. While 2 * X would probably cost more or as much as card type Y which is high-end and has double frame rates (2*GTX 260/275 vs. ATI 5870 is a good example), if you already have half the set-up, you can scale up better with SLI than buying a new card.

As for what exactly "enough performance" for "demanding users" is, that topic is debatable. Some like to run their games with 4xAA at 1080p, some cringe when framerates drop below 60 in Crysis on "Enthusiast" settings. I consider myself demanding, and I found SLI worth the bother 

[Murgos]

The way it's going now though is that the currently $199 priced cards are more than 2x as good as the 2 year old marked down to $99 cards.  So even incremental (buy 1 good card, wait, then buy a second when the price drops) updating with SLI/Crossfire doesn't really seem worth it.

Particularly, with the rampant bus changes we've seen in the last 3-4 years, meaning you are probably due for a new MB every second generation anyway.

[Kageh]

You're probably right on 2*$99 cards vs. one $199, but I think the current SLI sweet spot is at 2*260s or 2*275s, which, price-wise, beat a GTX 295 and can compete well enough with a 5870 if the game engine is supported with an SLI profile.

(Prices following are EUR, not sure about the US counterparts) Right before the ATI 5xxxs came out - and before NVIDIA apparently decided to bail out from the price war by simply stopping production - the 260s were going for €130 and the 275s for €175, with the 295 priced at around €370-400. 2*275s was easily the best setup you could buy for around €300, and to this day can beat a 5870 which sells for €340-360 if you can find one. €250 were buying you 2*260s, which made an awesome pairing.

Also, the days of endless tinkering around with SLI are long gone. Technology has matured and is indeed as simple as plug and play, if you want to spend the premium cash for a motherboard that support it. I'd rate it as definitely superior to Crossfire too, since I have a couple friends with Crossfire rigs and the micro-stutters are a very annoying problem there. NVIDIA did their homework better.

But then again, like you say, you can just buy today's mid-range and not worry. In my case, I've been tinkering with PCs since back when the high-end cards were costing €500,- and upwards, and I was really purchasing one of them per generation (thank God for ebay for recovering at least part of the costs, or my wife would probably have killed me meanwhile). €250,- for a SLI pairing that competes with the current high-end model doesn't scare me. Most smokers spend more than that per month on cigarettes here.

P.S. I'm really itching to buy a 5870 and ebay my 260s, sadly I actually use and enjoy NVIDIA 3D vision a lot, so I guess I'm stuck until the Fermi  arrives, vaporware or not 

[fuser]

Generally speaking, the SLI technology has matured and the NVIDIA drivers have come a long way dealing with annoying stuff like micro-stuttering, freezes and power consumption. Crossfire (the ATI "SLI implementation") has a harder time with micro-stuttering. On the other hand, ATI Crossfire is supported natively on almost all AM2+/AM3 mainboards you'd buy, while NVIDIA has lots of issues licensing the stuff with Intel, as Trippy pointed out. But, if your friend would upgrade to an i7/X58 chipset (which might or not be an option, depending on what deals you get, and is pretty much upper end of the price range), that chipset supports SLI natively, and does so quite well too.

Just a sidenote that SLI will work on some of the p55 based boards(i5/i7-8xx) which will move the cost down. It's just finding a board that has the certification (to run at 2x x8 pcie) or an BR-03 chip for (3x x16 pcie).

But your talking a $30 premium on the motherboard price for SLI 

[SnakeCharmer]

P.S. I'm really itching to buy a 5870 and ebay my 260s, sadly I actually use and enjoy NVIDIA 3D vision a lot, so I guess I'm stuck until the Fermi  arrives, vaporware or not 

Does that actually work?  I've got a pair of 3d glasses leftover from going to see Toy Story 3D and was curious as to those would work. 

[Kageh]

It does, and pretty good, too. I use the special NVIDIA glasses and the 120Hz TFT from Samsung, and when games support it, it is a thing of marvel. You never want to go back to 2D gaming again. I have to say I've used ELSA Revelator glasses back in 1999 on a 120Hz CRT, and I was already wooed back then, but this is next-next-gen compared to them - and absolutely ZERO flickering.

If you have a pair of red/green (anaglyph) glasses, you can use them with NVIDIA cards, you just need to install the 3D_Vision driver in case it was not included with the general driver package.

[SnakeCharmer]

Hrm.

I wonder how well it works with L4D. 

Does it require a 120hz monitor?

[Severian]

Just a sidenote that SLI will work on some of the p55 based boards(i5/i7-8xx) which will move the cost down. It's just finding a board that has the certification (to run at 2x x8 pcie) or an BR-03 chip for (3x x16 pcie).

But your talking a $30 premium on the motherboard price for SLI 

I'm right on the verge of upgrading to i5/i7 (my current aged motherboard is spluttering IO errors), keeping my MSI NX8800GTS (G92) 512M OC, which is "PCI Express x16 2.0". Is there a worthwhile motherboard which would preserve the SLI option for me, or is there even a point in trying to keep that option open?

I'm also wondering about the status of SATA 6GB/s, I'm getting the impression there are chipset rollout issues and isn't quite ready for prime time?
Fake edit: Found an answer.

I'd like eSATA, though.

[fuser]

Is there a worthwhile motherboard which would preserve the SLI option for me, or is there even a point in trying to keep that option open?
I'd like eSATA, though.

EVGA p55 SLI just to note with one video card it runs the pcie lane in x16. If you drop a secondary card in there it will drop down to an x8 but i doubt an 8800gts model is pushing the bus bandwidth that high. Oh it has an esata port too 

I'm debating the same thing with an i5 so I have been perusing motherboards for days.

[Kageh]

Hrm.

I wonder how well it works with L4D. 

Does it require a 120hz monitor?

It works great with L4D. I haven't played much, but I tested it a couple times back when I bought the glasses. L4D is also a good candidate because you get high framerates at average hardware set-ups. That's another thing I should mention, due to the way 3D images are calculated - the GPU basically processes two separate images instead of one, one for each eye, and displays them alternating, in sync with the shutter glasses - your framerates drop by about 50% worst case. Sometimes less because some games scale pretty good for that, but 30-40% less fps on average is normal.

Yes, you sadly need a 120Hz one, and I don't know about alternatives to the bundled Samsung 2233RZ. The good part is that it makes a great gaming display, zero ghosting, zero input lag, although it is quite pricey for nowadays standard. 120Hz is needed because at halved frame-rate, that still leaves you with a 60Hz display. Anything else and you'd get noticeable flickering.

I remember reading that it works pretty good with certain DLP projectors and LCD TVs, too.

Is there a worthwhile motherboard which would preserve the SLI option for me, or is there even a point in trying to keep that option open?
I'd like eSATA, though.

EVGA p55 SLI just to note with one video card it runs the pcie lane in x16. If you drop a secondary card in there it will drop down to an x8 but i doubt an 8800gts model is pushing the bus bandwidth that high. Oh it has an esata port too 

I'm debating the same thing with an i5 so I have been perusing motherboards for days.

About keeping the option open: If you consider yourself enthusiast (geeky  ) enough to maybe use it someday, I'd say yes. The savings are probably in the 40$ range for non-SLI, at most.

Some P55 non-SLI boards can also be flashed with their SLI counterpart BIOS, from what I read, but that is a bit of a gamble.

[Brolan]

Have you tried swapping out the power supply for a known good one?

[raydeen]

Actually, after all the crap I've tried with this thing, I think I found the culprit. You'll all laugh and point if this really is the problem, but I was futzing with it the other day while looking up CPU/motherboard combos and for some reason (I can't remember why) I reloaded the defaults on the BIOS and suddenly everything seemed to be working fine. I swear I'd done this before but maybe I hadn't (I've been working on quite a few systems lately and it all starts to run together). I was having trouble installing various types of XP ad 7 on several drives and now all seems to be working peachy keen. I *think* the CMOS battery may have gone bad at some point and screwed a setting or three in the BIOS and thus it manifested all the squirrelly problems I was seeing. It's always the stupidest goddamn thing. Hopefully this was the problem. In any case, thanks for all the advice.

[Sheepherder]

I *think* the CMOS battery may have gone bad at some point and screwed a setting or three in the BIOS and thus it manifested all the squirrelly problems I was seeing. It's always the stupidest goddamn thing. Hopefully this was the problem. In any case, thanks for all the advice.

CMOS batteries are always the first thing I check.  More often than not, it's that.

[rattran]

Updating the bios without clearing/resetting it is always good for weird problems.

[raydeen]

Ok, so after many permutations of hardware/software, things seem to be running ok. I got the 32 bit version of Win 7 installed, updated, patched, etc. only to find that the wireless card I bought for his system has (as far as I can tell) no Win 7 drivers at all and any of the workarounds I've tried can't get the card to start (Netgear WG110 v.3 - I think). Anyway, he want's Win 7. Any recommendations on a wireless card that will be compatible? I've just about had it with drivers and compatibility and crap. The goddamn card said it was Vista capable so one would assume it would be new enough to be supported, no? No. Apparently Netgear has shit the bed with Win 7 drivers.