Shadowbane/Wolfpack, ended?

[Driakos]

Hopefully this http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadNews=4887&fp=1280,1024,3245346750,20060328163701 is untrue.  If not, sad day in Texas.

If this was posted already, I apologize.

[HaemishM]

If so, it would be a sad, sad day. But unfortunately, it isn't completely unexpected.

[Soukyan]

That is either some massively inside information or flat-out wrong. Not that their web site has been updated in a while, but Wolfpack Studios is still listing positions that they are hiring for. Granted, that could all change with an official announcement, but I was also thinking, why would they bother opening a "new" server if this was known to be coming? Are they trying to destroy some hardware before they get the axe? Or (on an even more conspiracy related theory) perhaps Ubisoft came to Wolfpack and told them to get to X number of subscribers or they're gone and thus Wolfpack went to offer the game for free to obtain the needed number of subscribers to keep their jobs and even free they did not hit the number named by Ubisoft so Ubisoft closed the shop. It's a stretch, but a thought nonetheless. Plus, Ashen was posting in the threads about Shadowbane and certainly didn't seem to be inferring that the team was going anywhere. He and Sachant both seemed to be in good posting spirits. Perhaps they're being hired on by other companies for more money or something.

Ah well, there's my crazy conjecture on that MMORPG.com article. It'll be interesting to see if it turns out to be true.

[IchEsseKinder]

http://www.ashentemper.com/

I wasn't going to post this initially but I figure the word is already out (I've already seen it on a few webzines as well as a multitude of forums). Yes, the rumor is true: I am looking for a new job. No, I did not get fired. Nor am I the only one looking for a job. We were recently informed that as of mid-May 2006, the doors of Wolfpack Studios will be closing. Ubisoft, our parent company, will be refocusing their efforts on the console market with the new fiscal year, what with the new systems coming to market such as the X-box 360, PS3, and the Nintendo GO! (or so the rumors call it lately). This is not an unheard of practice; many game publishing companies tend to put a majority of their efforts into development of games for new systems. It is best to strike when the iron is hot, as the saying goes.

What does this mean for Shadowbane? Truth be told, I really don't know. I wish I did because I don't only work on the game, I play it too. Once I do know something and can officially state as much, I'll let you all know.

 

[Soukyan]

http://www.ashentemper.com/

The one site I didn't bother to check. Ah well, I stand corrected. Some suit at Ubisoft is cracking down on the budgets.

[Xilren's Twin]

http://www.ashentemper.com/

I wasn't going to post this initially but I figure the word is already out (I've already seen it on a few webzines as well as a multitude of forums). Yes, the rumor is true: I am looking for a new job. No, I did not get fired. Nor am I the only one looking for a job. We were recently informed that as of mid-May 2006, the doors of Wolfpack Studios will be closing. Ubisoft, our parent company, will be refocusing their efforts on the console market with the new fiscal year, what with the new systems coming to market such as the X-box 360, PS3, and the Nintendo GO! (or so the rumors call it lately). This is not an unheard of practice; many game publishing companies tend to put a majority of their efforts into development of games for new systems. It is best to strike when the iron is hot, as the saying goes.

What does this mean for Shadowbane? Truth be told, I really don't know. I wish I did because I don't only work on the game, I play it too. Once I do know something and can officially state as much, I'll let you all know.

 

Well, that does tend to explain why they went free with no word as to why or what was next.  Disappointing but not surprising.

Xilren

[squirrel]

http://www.ashentemper.com/

The one site I didn't bother to check. Ah well, I stand corrected. Some suit at Ubisoft is cracking down on the budgets.

Yeah god forbid companies actually focus on, you know, making money.

I loved SB but it really was a trainwreck in a lot of ways and i just don't see how it could compete in todays market even as a niche player. 25 people and infrastructure are pretty expensive when measured against the SB sub revenue figures i bet. So i agree it's a sad day for MMORPG games who like pvp, but it makes good business sense and if i was the manager at UBI i'd probably do the same thing. Shareholder value and whatnot.

[tazelbain]

Damn it, let's not sugar-coat this.
They didn't close because of external forces. 
They are closing because they failed.
They failed because they couldn't fix Sb.exe in time.
They failed by catering to people like r30s.
They failed by forcing everyone to slog through insipid PvE.
They failed by not convincing anyone to comeback after they fixed some of the above problems.

They did it to themselves. They deserve it.
I like Ashen too, but it is the truth.

[HaemishM]

Yes, unfortunately that is the truth. Shadowbane had tremendous potential, and in the end it all got pissed away. I am unable to pinpoint who exactly fucked Shadowbane beyond all hope of redemption, but it had to have started early, in the original design phase.

[Modern Angel]

It's the game I wanted to love.

The core of my GW guild came up in Shadowbane. Had a good city, intense rivalries... we all know each other in real life and I'd grin whenever I'd hear the stories of their exploits and of Malaena Blackblade, first R6 warrior in the entire game.

I'd keep trying it (and tried it again with this free thing since some of them have repeat hard ons for it) but I simply cannot get past the PvE. If Wolfpack knew it sucked so bad that they would just dole out immense experience bonuses to get by it why didn't they just remove it and start people at the cap? The fucking game was PvP not hitting static spiders for hours on end; I refuse to spend even five minutes doing something in a game I don't find fun.

Every single time I'd give it a go I eventually just said "Fuck this" and did something else. Kudos to you, Wolfpack, for going against the grain but fuck you in the eye for making some of the most insipid PvE I've ever seen. Mario Brothers was more complex.

[Xilren's Twin]

Yes, unfortunately that is the truth. Shadowbane had tremendous potential, and in the end it all got pissed away. I am unable to pinpoint who exactly fucked Shadowbane beyond all hope of redemption, but it had to have started early, in the original design phase.

Partly design, but more technical issues to my mind.  Even now, 3 year later, they still have laggy game servers, lots of bug and exploits that never got fixed, and of course a userbase that actively seeks every crack in their code for a smidgen of advantage.  This should have been no surprise; that was the population they were aiming for but do you really want that many buff bots and macro run characters?

IMHO, the initial design just needed to have worlds resets every X weeks with new worlds having different geographic and zone layouts each time to keep things fluid, and possibly rotating out certain classes/disciplines and rotating in new ones as well.  Play to crush, record the winners in a historical hall of fame, then wipe the world and start over with a new gameboard.  They should have treated each server as a unique playset, with more differentiation to captialize on the uniqueness of each worlds city development and politics and with a definate end game state.  

The unending need for gold farming they at least tried to address by adding claimable mines, but even they have exploits and bugs.  And of course a much faster leveling scheme rather than the pve they kept through out.

But I'll say this, it was definately a fun game for a while and had a lot of potential to be great despite all it's issues.  Sadly this just futher supports the idea that implementation > new ideas which is why cleanly built but soulless games like WoW continue to dominatel while risk takers fail over the long haul unless they are damn good at coding as well as creative.

Wonder when the offical word on SB fate will be announced.

Xilren

[Threash]

It still stands as the best pvp and best character development out of any other game out there.  Heres to what could have been the best game ever, cheers.

[Cheddar]

It still stands as the best pvp and best character development out of any other game out there.  Heres to what could have been the best game ever, cheers.

I disagree with this.  I did like the character development, but there are many examples that are on par.  Same with PvP.

[tazelbain]

Cheddar, how many cities did you burn down in SB?  how many of your cities got burnt down?

[Cheddar]

Cheddar, how many cities did you burn down in SB?  how many of your cities got burnt down?

I am not a masochist so never bothered paying for the game nor going through the grind to get to "end content" after it went free.

In Neocron I took part (and will once again, soon as I re-establish myself) in Op raids and massive PvP battles.  In UO I had many encounters with others that required a combative response, we lost some battles and were forced to move and won other battles and kept our little areas clear. 

WoW PvP was meaningless (emotionally) to me do to its counter strike nature and the grindage nature of it.  Yeah, battlegrounds were great when you could get in them, as far as a short term Player Vs. Player mini-game goes, but in the end it was meh due to a variety of factors.

Those are my thoughts, and I do not see what your point was.

edit.  For the sense.

[Triforcer]

To multi-troll, this game had the same problem for me that DAoC did.  It seemed like an endless grey landscape devoid of the loving extra touches and flourishes of WoW and EQ.


To just give an example.  THe other day I leveled my druid to 35 and got his engineering to the point where I could go goblin or gnomish.  I got dueling books from the questmaster where the goblins and gnomes sniped at each other about the other style of engineering and how awful it was.  It honestly made me chuckle.  WoW (and the original EQ) had both the color pallette (not a series of dreary grays, whites and browns ala DAoC and SB) and these extra touches that kept drawing me back in.  It takes a sense of playfulness to have something like the Shimmering Flats racetrack. 

I booted up Shadowbane the other day and started in a wintry safehold.  I walked for 15 minutes one direction and saw nothing.  All the NPCs were dressed in brown  and there were no mobs.  Dammit, WoW PvP is both FUN for me (especially 1v1) and colorful, as was EQ to a lesser extent.

[sinij]

Sad day, for all its faults SB was one of the more ambitious games on the market.

[Telemediocrity]

In Neocron I took part (and will once again, soon as I re-establish myself) in Op raids and massive PvP battles. 

I've long considered getting back into Neocron.  Is there still lots of grindy grind required?

[Cheddar]

[I've long considered getting back into Neocron.  Is there still lots of grindy grind required?

Yes and no.  I happen to have...errrr... a benefactor who has assets well above anyone I have ever met.  I never found NC as grindy, more of a game where research was needed outside of game.  I am having surprising fun now in the game and am loathe to admit to others I am playing due to the hate.

[Telemediocrity]

[I've long considered getting back into Neocron.  Is there still lots of grindy grind required?

Yes and no.  I happen to have...errrr... a benefactor who has assets well above anyone I have ever met.  I never found NC as grindy, more of a game where research was needed outside of game.  I am having surprising fun now in the game and am loathe to admit to others I am playing due to the hate.

Research needed outside the game as in, someone to powerlevel you?  Or wildly unbalanced levelling rates at certain spots?

I had tons of fun fighting in Pepper Park back in beta, I just have bad memories of camping rats in the sewer to get to that point.

[Cheddar]

Naw, its about knowing what equipment to invest in and choosing a primary profession to focus on.  Like any skill based system people want their main character to be the baddest bitch in all areas.  DUDE I AM MASTER KNITTER + CAN DO KUNG FOO LIKE KEANU REAVES MATRIX STYLE.

An example would be taking an implant that gives you + 3 str even though it gives no skill benefits to your character (or even gives you penalties) so you can use a bigger weapon. 

[Roac]

Wow, suck :(

I'd figured that they would hold SB afloat until they announced whatever the "SB2" project is.  I guess it's still possible that they're working on whatever it is, but this isn't the best news, and not normally what you want to precede a new project.  Sorry for Ashen and whoever else is getting let go.

Damn.

[HaemishM]

Yes, unfortunately that is the truth. Shadowbane had tremendous potential, and in the end it all got pissed away. I am unable to pinpoint who exactly fucked Shadowbane beyond all hope of redemption, but it had to have started early, in the original design phase.

Partly design, but more technical issues to my mind.  Even now, 3 year later, they still have laggy game servers, lots of bug and exploits that never got fixed, and of course a userbase that actively seeks every crack in their code for a smidgen of advantage.  This should have been no surprise; that was the population they were aiming for but do you really want that many buff bots and macro run characters?

The technical issues were part and parcel of really poor design. I mean, shit the game is almost 3 years old, which means its construction probably started 6-7 years ago? And yet, I still get problems from the game like mobs just APPEARING in the same spot I am? That's insanely ridiculous and part of the problem has always been their client/server netcode was designed badly from the ground up. Things like monsters and terrain appearing around me I can understand in beta, but it happened to me LAST WEEK, after almost 3 years of release. That's not just shitty implementation, it tells me that at the fundamental design level, things were done wrong and fixing them just wasn't possible.

The concept behind using 1 "big iron" server for SB was obviously wrong.

[Soukyan]

http://www.ashentemper.com/

The one site I didn't bother to check. Ah well, I stand corrected. Some suit at Ubisoft is cracking down on the budgets.

Yeah god forbid companies actually focus on, you know, making money.

I loved SB but it really was a trainwreck in a lot of ways and i just don't see how it could compete in todays market even as a niche player. 25 people and infrastructure are pretty expensive when measured against the SB sub revenue figures i bet. So i agree it's a sad day for MMORPG games who like pvp, but it makes good business sense and if i was the manager at UBI i'd probably do the same thing. Shareholder value and whatnot.

Oh, I don't disagree that companies should concentrate on making money. I was just being bitter because of how the administration at my workplace pissed away money in all the wrong places for years and now they are pulling the ultra-fast "shore it up and bail out the water before we sink!" method which involves not replacing jobs as folks leave, not purchasing unnecessary (or necessary) items, etc. I believe they call it downsizing. ;) In any case, it's not as if my job is at risk, but it's frustrating to see all these people who have worked hard for years get tossed about because some moron above them doesn't know how to manage money in a large institution. It'd be far easier to save money by trimming some of the fat from the top, but you know that never happens. So yeah... where was I? Oh right. I don't fault Ubisoft for wanting to save and make money. Just sad to see Wolfpack fold. They had a long time to make things work and it never got there. Pity too because as others have said, the potential was there.