GRE advice

[sinij]

I decided to pull Nerf and ask f13 for an advice and/or vent.

My S.O. decided to finish education and get PhD in a engineering/scientific field. S.O., being established person in SO's respective scientific field with strong peer network and multiple completed projects that resulted in a number of published papers on the resume had no problems securing position in prestigious university. Problem is that even with studying hard S.O. can't get anything but average GRE score on the new adaptable test, way below minimum cutoff. 

My S.O. is definitely hard working individual of above average intelligence, with number of areas, like procedural and analytical, approaching brilliant but with a number of weaknesses, like complete inability to improvise on a spot or general disinterest in areas outside specialization, holding S.O. back from being truly remarkable individual.

What can I do to help my SO get decent GRE score, something that should be trivial, but for some reason difficult task? To be supportive, I also took GRE and got into upper percentile with little to no studying and I am absolutely postie I can't do my SO's job.

[schild]

Some people can't test. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. I test very, very well - to the point that I had to drop classes that I tested into in college.

Be supportive in the event of any failure and don't be a dick to her the way you are to people on the internet. There's not much else you can do since you can't take the test for her (or him, since you decided to go gender neutral on the post).

[angry.bob]

Could she be having some sort of test anxiety? If it's that, or just about anything else there's a program out there for boosting scores.

[CmdrSlack]

I used some sorta Kaplan book and CD-ROM for the LSAT when I took it. That helped get me familiar with the types of questions. Not sure if the stuff for the GRE is any better, but it's worth a shot over not prepping.

[dusematic]

Somebody has to score average/below average.  Just the way it works.

[01101010]

Some people can't test. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. I test very, very well - to the point that I had to drop classes that I tested into in college.

The man speaks the truth. i am completely opposite. I do discussions, presentations, hell even essays rather well, but testing... I tank. That said, the GREs were kind to me for some reason.

[Margalis]

I knew a smart girl in college who would completely fall apart in any test situation, to the point of crying and hyperventilating. Meanwhile I would waltz in with a C average and completely nail a test. That's just how some people roll. It probably helped that I didn't really care that much so there was no pressure. Once you get into the state where you're super worried that probably makes it that much worse.

Have her practice in a realistic scenario, with a time limit and such. Either she doesn't know the material or she isn't good at testing, practicing that way will help both.

To be supportive, I also took GRE and got into upper percentile with little to no studying and I am absolutely postie I can't do my SO's job.

So to be supportive you took the same test, didn't study and did better. Wat? Why not just wear an "I'm with stupid" shirt? Maybe you meant well but wow...talk about an anti-confidence booster.

[Kail]

You could try to get a psych exemption.  My University is currently weathering a shitstorm for making an exception for a student who had “severe, disabling exam anxiety that appears to have significantly impeded [the student’s] ability to perform to [the student’s] potential.”  Not exactly something to brag about, but if she can do the work and the problem is with the exam, just skipping the exam might be do-able.

[Strazos]

I'm confused as to why a GRE is necessary for a job - thought it was only used for admission to graduate programs.

[Engels]

She's going for her PhD.

I would recommend one of those preparatory courses. I took some for the SAT when I was a wee kid, and it improved my score by about 200 points. After that, the GRE, back in the 90s, mind you, was a breeze. You have to remember that these tests are more often than not a test of how you take -that specific test- about as much as its testing your particular knowledge or ability in a particular area. Especially in the verbal department.

The problem is that there exists a 'standardized test' culture within the very people that create these tests. They end up with a rather narrow interpretation of cognitive functionality. There are those of us who do well in them, and those of us who don't, and it seem to me that the most important factor is if you are one of these people that, when taking any test, is able to enter the mind of those who designed the test and read between the lines to figure out what's being asked.

[sinij]

So to be supportive you took the same test, didn't study and did better. Wat? Why not just wear an "I'm with stupid" shirt? Maybe you meant well but wow...talk about an anti-confidence booster.

I know, but I actually didn't try to do well and was expecting to get a bad score...

The problem is that there exists a 'standardized test' culture within the very people that create these tests. They end up with a rather narrow interpretation of cognitive functionality. There are those of us who do well in them, and those of us who don't, and it seem to me that the most important factor is if you are one of these people that, when taking any test, is able to enter the mind of those who designed the test and read between the lines to figure out what's being asked.

I very much agree with this, but this doesn't solve my/our problem.

I would recommend one of those preparatory courses.

Anyone has first-hand experience with GRE preparatory courses?

Be supportive in the event of any failure and don't be a dick to her the way you are to people on the internet.

Good advice, I am trying hard to not be a dick to people I am close to. Being a dick to the people on internet is how I try to keep it compartmentalized.

[brellium]

Some people can't test. It's just the way the cookie crumbles. I test very, very well - to the point that I had to drop classes that I tested into in college.

Be supportive in the event of any failure and don't be a dick to her the way you are to people on the internet. There's not much else you can do since you can't take the test for her (or him, since you decided to go gender neutral on the post).

This.

Generally I do exceptionally well on standardized tests, however it depends on how well they're written.

For instance my tests to obtain a R.E. license was exceptionally easy compared to the class tests (which must have not been very clear, even considering a year prior I had retyped all the tests for the school). My test for my CPHT was also quite easy (to the point of studing for maybe an hour or two for a week).

Sometimes you just bomb tests, even if you know the subjec. Did it in college, bombed the math placement test and got stuck in remedial algebra, then subsiquently tested out of college algebra.

[Minvaren]

The adaptive test is annoying - miss any of the first 6 questions in a section and hang it up, as your score drops precipitously.  Happened to me on one section of math, it likely cost me 100 points.

Any way to take the pencil and paper version?  I've heard it's still available at some testing locations.

[Morat20]

No exemptions, no appeal for a low GRE score for the school in question?

I can't help you on the GRE prep stuff (I tend to avoid Kaplan just on general principles, but test-prep is probably their best area) but I know a number of people who swear by it, and half the math section is simply applying a handful of test cases. They're not so much interested in "Can you remember math" as in "Can you look at problem and eyeball where the weird points would be?"

Theoretically. In practice, it kinda falls flat.

Frankly, it's a bit too easy to work the test. Which means they've started gearing it to people who are prepared to work the test -- applying a relative handful of strategies that narrow down the results quickly. Your SO is probably getting screwed because everyone else has taken GRE test prep stuff, and she hasn't, and thus the test is written with the expectation that she knows certain things.

I'd start with talking to the school directly -- having an existing body of work relevant to the field is the sort of thing they make exemptions FOR. If they don't or won't, then look into test prep stuff.

[Sheepherder]

don't be a dick to her the way you are to people on the internet.

Sage advice.  You missed your true calling as a rabbi, didn't you?

Anyways, Morat has good advice: see if she can score an exemption on the basis of recommendations and previous work.  If she knows anyone in the faculty of the master's program she intends to attend get them on board.

[NowhereMan]

I'll second (third?) Morat and Sheepherder, Universities at PhD level can usually quite happily make exceptions in terms of admittance. If she can get an interview and has a solid body of work she can talk about as the basis for her application I imagine they'd be more than happy to overlook a crappy GRE score. Bear in mind the point of those sort of tests is usually to evaluate someone's 'general intelligence' since they probably will be doing stuff they don't have a track record in. In this case she sounds like she's pretty much going to be doing more of what she's already done and having experience in that should be far more important than a crappy general ability test. If it's an unavoidable requirement then do a load of test prep stuff and possibly be prepared to support and help her look for programmes at other Universities that have less stupid entry requirements.

But seriously if she's got proof that she's familiar with the field and has already produced work in it then that should hugely outweigh the GRE stuff if she actually gets a chat with someone in the department. If she doesn't know any of them get her to email whoever it is she'd want to work with and ask to talk to them about it.

Also apologies if your SO is male.

[Murgos]

My brother just got accepted to an Engineering PhD program, his GRE's weren't great, he too just went in and took the test.  By that point the GRE was just a formality, he had already talked to several professors at the uni and had already basically been told he was welcome.

[Sky]

Your local library should have a lot of materials to prep for GRE.

[Goumindong]

I recently have taken the GRE's (twice) for PHD entrance so I feel your pain.

The analytical quant test can be a real pain. There seem to be a few main problems with the computer based test. Probably the largest is simply that there are a lot of people who come from places where math is taught as computation who are exceptionally good at these types of test. A full 6% of the people who take the test get an 800. Compare to the verbal section where a full 8% score above 630.

The next thing is that the test has a sliding grading scale, such that harder problems are worth more points. BUT if you miss an easy question early you will never get to the harder questions in order to make up a score. I have taken the GRE's twice now and have scored 750(82%). Why? Because I will always make some dumb mistake which costs me getting to the end of the test at the hard questions. As simple as reading something backwards and you can kiss your score goodbye.


The way to do best on the test is to absolutely ensure that you don't make any dumb mistakes. You have about 1.5 minutes per question, use them.

Test prep won't help much. BUT

You will have to know how to long divide, how to manipulate exponents/factor large numbers, and be able to think about what steps are necessary when looking for a specific answer.

For instance they might want to know the last digit of 8^7. Multiplying that out would be a pain so only multiply the last digit.

[Raging Turtle]

I took the GRE a month ago, and did extremely well.

I also studied probably the hardest I ever have, for a month and a half beforehand (had to make up for a less than great GPA), and even pushed the date back twice because I didn't feel ready.  The tough part for me was the math section, since I haven't really used algebra or geometry in the 15 years since high school.  Undergrad in English and a few years using/teaching it made me pretty comfortable there, especially for the writing section, but I still spent a lot of time studying vocabulary cards.

I'm 100 percent certain that I would not have done half as well if I hadn't studied like I did.  I did a good amount of research on test prep books and finally chose the Barron's GRE book, which I thought was great, although I only really used the general advice and math sections.  I also bought the Kaplan Vocab-in-a-box flashcards, basically a set of 500 flashcards and thought that was extremely helpful as well.  Picked them both up at Barnes and Noble, really recommend both.

The best way to prepare, though, other than just plowing through the books and especially for a person who has test anxiety, is to actually take the test, over and over again - I tried to do at least one practice test a week when I was studying.  The Barron book I mentioned came with a CD that had two practice tests on it - those were ok, but they felt a little tougher than the actual test.   The best I found are the free tests you can download from the official GRE website - they're called Powerprep and I felt like they were the most accurate in actually predicting my score.  Both the Barron's and the Powerprep had built in timers, and followed the format of actual test exactly.  Don't neglect the writing sections either - the Powerprep software has some great advice and writing samples to tell you exactly what the graders are looking for.

Also, see if you can bring ear plugs to the exam.  I'm easily distracted and was really glad I had them.

[ghost]

Kaplan is probably not a bad idea. 

[Jimbo]

How bad is the MCAT vs GRE?  I took my NCLEX and it shut down with the minimum score needed, which meant I was either kicking ass or having my ass kicked, same when I took my written boards (I was on the old school where you took all the written questions, not the computer) and got 90% in almost all the areas.  But if you ask me to pick out a musical note or try and work a foreign language, I totally bomb it. 

[Nebu]

How bad is the MCAT vs GRE?  I took my NCLEX and it shut down with the minimum score needed, which meant I was either kicking ass or having my ass kicked, same when I took my written boards (I was on the old school where you took all the written questions, not the computer) and got 90% in almost all the areas.  But if you ask me to pick out a musical note or try and work a foreign language, I totally bomb it. 

Think of the MCAT as being similar in difficulty to a subject GRE.  The general GRE is more of an aptitude exam whereas the subject GRE's are focused measures of knowledge in a specific area.  The MCAT is also designed to simultaneously measure reading comprehension and problem solving skills with a component to measure efficiency. 

I'd say that the verbal MCAT portion is similar to the verbal portion of the GRE.  It's pretty difficult to study for either.  They really expose how much reading you've done in your life (exposure to words). 

[Malakili]

I took the GRE and scored fairly well on it, and I just bought one of the prep books and spent about an hour a day on it for the month preceding the exam.  I'm an extremely average test taker, but doing the prep got me through with scores decent enough.  Is she willing to go to any prep classes or anything like that?  These kind of standardized tests really only test how good you are at taking the standardized test, so the more prep you can do for the particular exam the better in my experience, above and beyond the actual knowledge of material in some cases.

[Nebu]

I've found that the success of Kaplan or test prep services depend highly on the person using them.  If you put the work into the class, you'll see positive results.  I think that simply buying a test prep book and working it in earnest will yield the same result for less money.  Some people just enjoy attending class as a motivator. 

[Soln]

(notes this for EOY thread for why I  f13)

I too have been planning to take the GRE since Oct, and I've delayed because of the time to get old transcripts as well as necessary prep time.  I took the GMAT and did well some 11 years ago, but as Raging Turtle and others have noted the GRE seems geared to punish you badly for minor slips.  So extra time investment and $ prep seems the way to go.

I sympathesize with your S.O. Sinij.  It's maybe another sign with grade/degree inflation that even with verifiable, credible work experience Univerisities still have non-negotiable entry policies.  There's just so many more students today.

The only consoling thing maybe is that I don't think there is any expiry date on GRE scores (correct everyone?). 

[Malakili]

The only consoling thing maybe is that I don't think there is any expiry date on GRE scores (correct everyone?). 

I think its 5 or 6 years if I recall correctly, but I'm not 100% and I don't feel like looking it up right now.

[Nebu]

I think its 5 or 6 years if I recall correctly, but I'm not 100% and I don't feel like looking it up right now.

The graduate committees I've served on (PhD programs) consider the GRE out of date after 7 years.

[sinij]

I'd say my SO studied for about 2-3 hours each weekend and occasional 1 hour during weekdays for maybe 25-30 hours total? I wouldn't call it half-assed effort by my standards.

[Goumindong]

I think its 5 or 6 years if I recall correctly, but I'm not 100% and I don't feel like looking it up right now.

The graduate committees I've served on (PhD programs) consider the GRE out of date after 7 years.

Its now 5 years out of date for pretty much all Econ PHD programs