Current Events Junkies

[DarkDryad]

"I'm probably not the only one up at this table that is more outraged by the outrage than we are by the treatment," Sen. James Inhofe said during a hearing on the Abu Ghraib prison scandal.

Wow. Out of touch much? I am surprised that McCain didn't go over the table and choke his dumb ass out.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, said, "When you are the good guys, you've got to act like the good guys."

Amen.

Yes lindsey is a good and honorable man. I hunt with him at least once a year and I voted for him. He also says that this isnt a matter of GC issues but a matter of UCMJ issues which is what I was saying from the begining. Let the military justice system work. If a soldier was charged with murder and just got a discharge I can reasonably assume he was found not guilty of murder but a lesser offense. Ive seen court marshals work. They are ruthless in thier prosecution so I honestly belive the evidence of him murdering someone wasnt there.

[daveNYC]

I, for one, agree with the Senator.  On one hand, we have sodomizing prisoners with a broom.  Wrong?  Most definitely.  But it is something that happens even in high schools and colleges today.

Go go lowered expectations!

Some of the outcry does come from the fact that shitty actions like lopping off heads is expected behavior from terrorists.  Sure we are disgusted by it, but we don't really set that high a standard for their behavior, so when they drop below even that low watermark, it's not much of a shock.

On the other hand, Americans like to think that Americans know how to behave.  We hold ourselves to a higher standard, and when that standard is violated the outcry is that much greater.

[Foix]

I, for one, agree with the Senator.  On one hand, we have sodomizing prisoners with a broom.  Wrong?  Most definitely.  But it is something that happens even in high schools and colleges today.

There are also accusations, mentioned in the Red Cross report and hinted at by Rumsfeld when he was testifying before Congress, that other detainees were raped and/or maimed and/or murdered. The photographs Rumsfeld described as more shocking than those that have already been released may contain images of those activities, which is perhaps why there has been debate whether or not those additional photographs should be released.

I agree with Senator Graham and daveNYC on this one: 'what we do to people isn't quite as bad as what some of our enemies do to people' is not much of an argument, especially when the government has put so much effort into placing our activities in Iraq on the moral high ground. The rationale behind Senator Inhofe's comment--that we as Americans are held to the same moral standards as Saddam Hussein and Islamic terrorists--is pretty repugnant. To quote the president, 'That isn't the America that I know.'

As is the case here. The sadists are an extreemly small minority. Course that dont matter cause its all Bush and Rummys fault and whatnot.

That's the same argument I was making. As the evidence stands now, I don't see how Rumsfeld or Bush can be held responsible for the torture of Iraqi detainees. The only thing that would make me change my mind on that was if follow-through on the Red Cross report revealed that systemic torture took place as an accepted part of interrogation in Iraq, rather than being limited to the activities of a handful of sadists. The female soldier who appears in the Abu Gharib photographs says she was operating under orders from unnamed superiors; we'll have to wait and see if that's corroborated.

[England's lawyer] said England was pulled into the situations by intelligence agents who subverted the military chain of command. . .Asked whether worse things happened than those already seen on the photos, she said yes but declined to elaborate.

[DarkDryad]

From my viewpoint the theater commander needs his nuts wacked He was the one who TACOPED  the MP Bn under a MI Bn and as stated in the Taguda report these two entities have radicaly different missions and this shouldnt have happened. So now you have a group thats supposed to perform guard dities only being commanded by a MI officer. These 2 are in opposition to each other and should NEVER be in charge of each other or shit like this happens.

Edit: It seems that all of the Muslims who arent jutjobs in Iraq are stepping way backl from this and vowing to "take care" of the situation. As I would expect them to back down and allow us to handle an internal issue in our military I will back down and see what they do. See datante' its a wonderful thing.

[WayAbvPar]

I, for one, agree with the Senator. On one hand, we have sodomizing prisoners with a broom. Wrong? Most definitely. But it is something that happens even in high schools and colleges today.

Rape and mass murder happen in our high schools and colleges too...guess that makes it ok, right? We shouldn't get too worked up about it, since it happens here too.

OT- WTF is going on in Colorado? Gotta be high on my list of "States in which I would least like to send my child to school". Must be the all that damned snow.  Or possibly easy access to the Coors brewery.

[Aslan]

Rape and mass murder happen in our high schools and colleges too...guess that makes it ok, right? We shouldn't get too worked up about it, since it happens here too.

I would like to reiterate, since my iteration was ignored, that I am in NO way condoning or dismissing the seriousness of the charges levelled at the troops stationed at that prison.  But until there are real charges of murder, and not just Red Cross allegations, or some kind of serious torture involving a bent coat hanger and a car battery, I think the coverage of this is way overblown.  And I would say that given the sheer number of our guys over there, and the fact that we are in a WAR, the average U.S. soldier is doing a tremendous job.  I would just like to hear more about that average soldier who is helping Iraqis put things together than another interview with the lesbian who just loves to point at arab cock, under orders, mind you.

[penfold]

Time to pull everyone out of there and nuke the whole fucking place from orbit. This is just sickening.

Ive seen this quote and the like across a bunch of forums, all in similar threads (middle east parking lot etc) and wonder how much thought has ever been put into this.... theres a few minor issues, like an environmental castatrophe, i pity the continent and a few billion people (non muslim) that are downwind. A world energy shortages and a subsequent global economic depression, as well as being able to label the USA as far superior at racial genocide than Hitlers Nazi Germany. They called the First World War the Great War because they thought it could never happen again, but a Second Holocaust, could that really be feasible ?

I wonder how many people really do think the nuclear option would work, rather than it being a catchphrase.

[Riggswolfe]

Even though Aslan is a good friend of mine I'm gonna have to disagree with him here. I think the rest of you nailed it on the head. The outcry of this is because we are Americans. We're supposed to be the good guys. When we get caught torturing people it pokes a hole in our own image of ourselves and yes, causes outrage. There is still outrage over the other events, but again, as others have stated, we expect that from terrorists. We're kind of desensitized to it to be blunt, our reaction is basically "they did it again, hope the Army catches em this time."

[Tebonas]

That would explain why the public reaction here (not officially of course) is less outrage but more in line with "Yeah SURE they are down there to fight for democracy and freedom *eyeroll*".

Lower expectations and such...

[Riggswolfe]

That would explain why the public reaction here (not officially of course) is less outrage but more in line with "Yeah SURE they are down there to fight for democracy and freedom *eyeroll*".

Lower expectations and such...

Most of the soldiers seem to believe that, that we're there to free them. The politicians know better. Some of the more informed citizens do too. How many of them know better will probably be shown in this year's election. With the way things are going I suspect ole Bush has a 50/50 shot of losing. Not that it matters. No matter who wins we'll still be over there, and now we're committed. If we pull out we leave a power vacuum and things can only get worse for the Iraqis in that situation.