Bioshock - SEE STICKIED THREADS.

[Velorath]

The important question is: Where were all of these assholes when System Shock was new?

They were playing console games, and are now taking an interest in Bioshock because it's on the 360 rather than just being a PC game?  Just a guess there.

[Prospero]

The important question is: Where were all of these assholes when System Shock was new?  If the number of people currently masturbating over Bioshock had bought System Shock, it'd've been a super-duper best-seller like it deserved rather than languishing in the pit of mediocre sales.

I suspect it had little to no marketing. I was a hardcore PC gamer in '94, and somehow that one slipped by me until well after it was in the bargain bin. I remember a brief blurb about it in some gaming rag at the time, but they weren't able to buy the coverage they needed I suspect.  Bioshock hasn't lacked for press coverage.

[LK]

Can we change the subject of this thread back to something that doesn't instill hope everytime I see a reply to this thread?

[Big Gulp]

I suspect it had little to no marketing. I was a hardcore PC gamer in '94, and somehow that one slipped by me until well after it was in the bargain bin. I remember a brief blurb about it in some gaming rag at the time, but they weren't able to buy the coverage they needed I suspect.  Bioshock hasn't lacked for press coverage.

Yep.  I never played the original System Shock because I'd never heard of it.  I only became aware of the System Shock brand when I read a review of SS2.

You've gotta remember that 1994 was before most people had even gone onto the internet proper.  We're literally swimming in gaming news nowadays; back then you had to hunt down your info, and PC games were only available for the most part in specialty shops.

[Yegolev]

Can we change the subject of this thread back to something that doesn't instill hope everytime I see a reply to this thread?

Sorry, no.  My friend, Killjoy, used to think System Shock 2 was the greatest game ever made.  Until now.  He says he still has nightmares about the midwives.  Bioshock, he says, is horror where System Shock 2 was suspense, but rather similar and Bioshock wins.  I am not aware of anyone that doesn't like it.

[Kitsune]

I currently think that System Shock 2 is the greatest game ever made; I'm replaying it now, in fact.  We'll see if Bioshock unseats it.  I'm working hard to keep a lid on the hype so I don't go in with over-inflated expectations, but I'm really hoping that Bioshock will be what System Shock 3 should have been.  The Irrational folks have never let me down so far, so fingers crossed.

(Anyone wanting to play SS2 should go to the forums at www.sshock2.com for instructions on getting and installing the graphical update mods made by the fanbase, they make a HUGE difference in the game's appearance on modern machines.  About the best we can hope for, given how unlikely the odds are of a remake of SS and SS2 with modern graphics engines.)

(Graphical updates are also available for Deus Ex 2, which purge it of much of the shitty consoleitis, getting the UI out of the way and improving the low-memory Xbox textures.  Once those are fixed, it's actually a fairly enjoyable game.)

[Ironwood]

I was actually half serious.  That slobber by IGN is embarrassing to read and fairly insulting to games everywhere, anywhere, and anywhen.  I don't care HOW good Bioshock is.

New Journalism seems to be all about eating the knob, swallowing no matter how much is produced and then smiling at them for more.

[raydeen]

I suspect it had little to no marketing. I was a hardcore PC gamer in '94, and somehow that one slipped by me until well after it was in the bargain bin. I remember a brief blurb about it in some gaming rag at the time, but they weren't able to buy the coverage they needed I suspect.  Bioshock hasn't lacked for press coverage.

Yep.  I never played the original System Shock because I'd never heard of it.  I only became aware of the System Shock brand when I read a review of SS2.

You've gotta remember that 1994 was before most people had even gone onto the internet proper.  We're literally swimming in gaming news nowadays; back then you had to hunt down your info, and PC games were only available for the most part in specialty shops.

I was on the net back then but I remember the big thing at the point were the IE discs: Interactive Entertainment. (I think that's right at any rate). Every month, you could purchase a new CD with 'interactive' game reviews. It was more or less a CD that had canned slideshow reviews with some game demos included. I remember SS being described as Doom meets Lovecraft meets M.C.Escher. I was intrigued but at that time my poor 486/33 couldn't handle the load. By the time I met the system requirements, other games had come along. Bioshock is now intriguing me 10+ years later. Will it be the same? Will my computer buckle under the strain? Only one way to find out...

Incidentally, my favorite FPS of all time: Cybermage: Darklight Awakening. Great freaking game. Half fantasy, half sci-fi, and somewhat furry (but we didn't know that particular evil back then). I remember it actually played better in Windows than DOS as Windows would bring virtual memory into play where DOS couldn't. This was back when 8 megs of memory was all I could afford. How far we've come.

[Velorath]

Circuit City apparently has Bioshock for $10 off in their upcoming ad (for both the 360 and PC versions).  Yet another example of why I don't pre-order shit.

[Zetor]

Actually, System Shock 1 was pretty decently hyped in Hungary -- our biggest PC magazine at the time had a 5-page review/walkthrough published about it. pages 42->46 It wasn't an overly positive one though, they complained a lot about how it required a top-of-the-line machine to run and how Ultima Underworld was 'better'.


-- Z.

[UnSub]

I played SS, but never SS2 - I wasn't paying attention to PC games when SS2 came out.

I think one of the many reasons SS didn't get the sales was that it was probably (and here comes a wanker statement) ahead of its time. An FPS wasn't meant to have suspense, or limited ammo, or reliance on melee weapons. An RPG wasn't meant to be twitch. Put those together and you alienate large groups of players.

I'm contemplating taking a day off to play Bioshock when it launches. The last time I did this was when Enter the Matrix launched. You see why I am conflicted.

[MrHat]

So I made my wife watch me play the Bioshock demo (in a bid to make my purchase not seem selfish).

She sorta ruined something about it for me: "Why did you just shoot up with that syringe?"  I told her because then I get cool powers.  And she's like: "You just had a plane crash in the middle of the ocean, you enter a mysterious pillar out there, get taken down below the depths, have a crazy demon lady try and kill you, manage to survive, then decide, wow, this syringe just popped outta a vending machine, I should INJECT myself with it."

I had no response.  It doesn't make much sense.  The dude should've told us first that the only way to survive down here is to use the Plasmids.

[Yegolev]

Dude, that's exactly what my wife said.

[schild]

Dudes. Your wives have tunnel vision. There's enough posters and shit that a needle popping out of a vending machine is what you WANT to be looking for. Also, If you don't run over there and do it real fast, he does say something.

[MrHat]

It's pretty light rationalisation.

Also, what he says amounts to "Plasmids make you crazy and you strangle your own babies".  Not much of an endorsement.

[Velorath]

Dudes. Your wives have tunnel vision. There's enough posters and shit that a needle popping out of a vending machine is what you WANT to be looking for. Also, If you don't run over there and do it real fast, he does say something.

Not only that, but if the demo is any indication, it doesn't seem like they ever actually show the main character reacting to anything.  His only line of dialogue as far as I can remember is the short bit he says right before the plane crash.  If this is how they've chosen to tell the story, then I guess they couldn't really have him get into a debate over the merits of injecting himself with a genetically altering substance, just like they don't show him reacting to the plane crash, or ending up in an underwater city being attacked by crazy people.

[NiX]

just like they don't show him reacting to the plane crash, or ending up in an underwater city being attacked by crazy people.

He does react to the lady hacking at the sphere. Turn up your volume and listen. You can hear his breathing get notably faster and kinda hear his hear beating.

[schild]

CD Keys for Valve games will always be accepted on Steam. CD Keys for third party games are generally not accepted for Steam registration, unless they match the Valve CD Key format (or if they are listed below).

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    * The Ship CD Keys in this format: 1AB2C-D3FGH-456I7-JK8LM-NOP9Q

I suspect you'll be able to add Bioshock to Steam. Which is super hot. The key is in the Valve CD-Key format. ^_^

[Morfiend]

It's pretty light rationalisation.

Also, what he says amounts to "Plasmids make you crazy and you strangle your own babies".  Not much of an endorsement.

I also noticed this. The first time through I thought I missed Atlas telling him to do it. After a second and third time, yeah. Nothing. It irritated me also.

[Stephen Zepp]

It's pretty light rationalisation.

Also, what he says amounts to "Plasmids make you crazy and you strangle your own babies".  Not much of an endorsement.

I also noticed this. The first time through I thought I missed Atlas telling him to do it. After a second and third time, yeah. Nothing. It irritated me also.

Think about it from the "games are evil and should be burned" perspective. They most certainly couldn't have actively endorsed within the game that you should take drugs (mind/body altering substances) to make yourself more powerful/capable. I'm not sure how I would have done it differently, but when the substantial story of your game is what it appears to be (the only way to save the planet is to become altered--my summary, since my only interaction with the game is from what y'all say here), they have to be very careful about what sound bites they provide to the "games are evil" crowd.

[cmlancas]

Perhaps this is because I have a more liberal view on what is acceptable in gaming, but there is no way I would have a problem keeping an M rating in a game where you use drugs in an underwater utopia with monsters attacking you. 

Is your disbelief suspended yet?

[Stephen Zepp]

Perhaps this is because I have a more liberal view on what is acceptable in gaming, but there is no way I would have a problem keeping an M rating in a game where you use drugs in an underwater utopia with monsters attacking you. 

Is your disbelief suspended yet?

Good point about the "M" rating--I hadn't thought about that aspect--but I still think it was a moral issue:

Designer> How do we get the players to understand they need to inject themselves with the bioagents?
Dev> Uhh, hmm. Let's leave graffiti on the wall that says "hey dumbass, inject yourself with this needle to be able to survive?
Designer> Ok that works.
Producer> Uhh, guys, drugs are bad, mkay? No way we can back drug use to become more powerful. "BioShock promotes steroid use!" is NOT something I want to read in the news!
All>Hrm, good point. Maybe we, umm, thematically suggest it and also say "drugs are bad!" at the same time?
Producer>Make it so.

[MrHat]

I see your point.  But it easy could've been an early 'moral decision'.

i.e. Atlas comes up and says "Don't take that or you'll eat your babies".  And then you fight someone who can shoot lightning.  And then you see a vending machine that can make you shoot lightning.

[Rasix]

That'd be a great moral decision, up until the point where you have to stare at the door that can't be opened because you D.A.R.E. to not use plasmids.

If this is the massive fault we can find in this demo, this game is going to be unbelievably awesome.

[Shrike]

The drug thing is kinda weak. Although, considering the position the main character is in, he's not exactly swimming in behavioral choices. When in Rome and all that...

This actually reminds me of all the drugs available in Fallout. Most were necessary to basic survival, but quite a few combat drugs were lying about just waiting to be ingested--namely the aptly named Psycho. This stuff did give you a--how shall we put this?--distasteful reputation. On the other hand, there were more than a few situation where use of it was your best means of survival. And the stuff DID deliver--in spades. I never really liked using the stuff (hell, I don't even like taking aspirin), but you'd get in deep shit in the game and it was the only way out--or reload your game, which risked fatal crashes! Some of my most vivid memories of Fallout were desperate combat sequences in which you hyped Psycho, then the fur really hit the walls. Then the aftermath. Nasty stuff.

SS2. I remember this game quite well. Great atmosphere, but quite frankly, I thought it sucked to play. There were basic game mechanics that blew goats. The whole malfunctioning weapons thing was just absolutely, grade-A, pure-D, fucking stupid. STOOOPID! With bells on. It just about ruined the whole thing for me (hey, I like to fight). A few tweaks largely ameliorated this, but I never did get entirely over the irritation engendered by this idiocy. I understand why they did it, it was just dumb. I never did finish it. I still have my disks. I suppose I should try and resurrect it, but...it still irritates me to this day thinking about it.

Regardless, I'm still looking forward to Bioshock. At least mil-spec grade firearms weren't breaking right and left after 5 rounds in the demo...

[Yegolev]

The drug discussion hits on how I disagree with the theory of Mute Protagonist.  It can work in some cases, but when you have a Mute Protagonist the other charcters or environment must provide a very clear emotional response or motivation in the actual player, which is a bit harder to do consistently than giving a voice to the protagonist.  In this scenario, it would have been easy enough (in my opinion) to have your character talk a bit and give a bit of reasoning, like "Hmmm, this place is scary and deadly.  If I'm going to have any hope of getting out of here, I'm going to have to fight fire with fire.  Hopefully, this stuff won't turn me into one of them..."  Why wouldn't that have sufficed?

Some silly moments in HL2 occurred because Gordon can't speak, if you ask me.

[Threash]

Im sure any outrage over bioshock will be a lot more focused on the "shooting little girls in the face for fun and profit" game mechanic rather than the drug use.

[lesion]

I am randomly furious!

The wait is nearly over. At 7 PM EST the BioShock PC demo will go live for you to enjoy. We will have exclusive pre-loading at Fileplanet. Set your watches for 7 o'clock!

by 7:00 PM I could be FITFULLY SLEEPING UNTIL RETAIL, not PLAYING A DEMO AVAILABLE LAST WEEK FOR JERKS THAT OWN A 360

[Fabricated]

I am randomly furious!

The wait is nearly over. At 7 PM EST the BioShock PC demo will go live for you to enjoy. We will have exclusive pre-loading at Fileplanet. Set your watches for 7 o'clock!

by 7:00 PM I could be FITFULLY SLEEPING UNTIL RETAIL, not PLAYING A DEMO AVAILABLE LAST WEEK FOR JERKS THAT OWN A 360

And fuck fileplanet too. What a shitty website that place has been since....forever.

[bhodi]

I am randomly furious!

You're furious? I got all worked up about replaying SS2 for the first time 5 years thanks to this thread, and then instead of an updated graphics patch in that ssforum, I find that it won't even run on my computer thanks to my 8800GTS video card and core2duo processor. Fuck.

[lesion]

 

why not?!

[schild]

WE NOW HAVE 3 THREADS FOR BIOSHOCK

>NO SPOILERS
>
>HELP THREAD/POSSIBLE SITUATIONAL SPOILERS/SPOILERS TAGGED BLACK
>
>DON'T EVEN CLICK THIS UNTIL YOU'RE DONE WITH THE GAME

THIS THREAD IS MUY LOCKED.