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Altered Carbon Date Announcement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM7Eob4YFDQ)

So this was announced for 2.2.2018 on Netflix.

I'm pretty excited since I'm a fan of Richard Morgan's writing (even the fantasy books).

Yeah, massive excitement over here.  Interestingly, some of the hints in the interviews suggest that they've changed some of the smaller details, but the big picture seems to remain exactly the same and the big worry for some fans (we require multiple Kovacs) has been confirmed on IMDB for over a year.

So I'm looking forwards. 

Yeah, that's the stuff.

The big change to Kovacs' background worried me but a lot of reviews say it works and it was kind of necessary because in the books we get his background through his thoughts, which you can't really do well on screen.

On the other hand, the reviews have been kind of mixed so far, so we'll see.

Only watched two episodes thus far, trying to pace it out, but I think it's just off the scale fantastic. It's one of those rare shows where everything is so exciting scene to scene that it's hard to find a moment to pause the stream to take a pee break.

It's a live action of a cyberpunkish sci-fi anime, which means that if you stop to think for 5 seconds about it as sci-fi, it all falls apart. But between Rule of Cool and some really tight plotting, you don't get many chances to pick at it.

--Dave

Isn't it a live action of a novel?

Altered Carbon is definitely I novel.

Source: It's on my bookshelves.

And looking forward to that show.

I'm about 2 episodes in and I don't care for it. It's an interesting concept, I just think two of the main actors (the protagonist Kovacs and the lady cop) are really horrible and make the show hard to watch.

Wow, just goes to show that people's impressions can be wildly different. I loved Joel Kinnaman in the Killing and I'm loving him here. I also am enjoying the cop and the integration of her latin family into the story with the conceit that language barriers are eliminated through some sort of learning software implant and all that's left is different cultures without a linguistic divide.

As to the impression that it's based on an Anime, I can't really find fault with that impression, since some of the scenes look like straight up Japanese storytelling (not gonna spoil it, but you'll probably know it when you see it if you've watched just about any amount of Anime).

Another criticism I've heard is that the it's not as philosophical as, say, Westworld. I can't disagree strongly enough, as it's themes are grounded in pretty gritty questions about mortality and meaning, and its exploring them in the way that good scifi does; extrapolating the what-if to the n'th degree and seeing what questions emerge. Sure, its not Heidegger but its also an action drama so turning your nose up at it for this seems to be a bit off the mark, both in terms of missing the questions it does ask, and perhaps expecting the tedium of philosophic exposition that's the bane of many many boring sci fi attempts (Neal Stephenson, I'm looking at you).

Apparently, yes. Which seems weird, because it "feels" very anime. Not in a bad way.

--Dave

This is hotness squared.  I'm four episodes in and quite impressed with it.  Especially all the side story and bit actors.  (I loves aryan mexican grandmama, he was fucking perfect)

I like this too. Good sets and good camera work. Plot moves along quickly. (only 3 episodes in so far)

I never thought I'd be satisfied with changes to the novel, never mind happy.  But I'm extremely happy at some of this.

This is a new standard setter for TV sci-fi for me. Binged the first 9 episodes over the weekend. Sad that I only have one to go.

I liked this but I wasn't too happy with some of the changes made like

I  :heart: Poe.

Changing The Hendrix into The Raven was inspired and the chap playing Poe gets all the love in the world. 

The Envoy changes were the only things that didn't really sit right with me and that mostly due to the fact that A - as mentioned, other books are now going to get HUGE sections rewritten if they decide to continue and B - It's so unnecessary.  Kovacs makes it quite clear he did bad shit for the Protectorate before joining with Quell, so there's literally no reason to change this except to make Quell's group more badass, which is really not needed.

I will say that perhaps one of the best reasons for the changes is so that blokes like me can actually see something new in the story.  It's nice when the wife says 'who's he' and I can genuinely reply 'I don't fucking know.'  The Bancroft Son thing at least put a different rail on the narrative.

And, let's just be brutally frank for a moment, Ortega is just super fucking hot.  Like, Super.

And who doesn't love a White Supremacist Granny Clone ?

Dichen clone fight was absurdly hot and disturbing.

Same. I've been an Edgar Allan Poe fan for a long time. Combining him with a cyberpunk world is perfect!

I'm only at epsiode 4 but the achievement here is QUALITY FUCKING CYBERPUNK. Cyberpunk as moving pictures has never been done this well before, unless you count Blade Runner or video games like Deus Ex. We now have an actual successful big-budget cyberpunk drama.

Yes.

That's partially because Dichen herself is absurdly hot and disturbing.

Also that.

Absolutely no argument from me there.

I am liking a lot but I don't find Dichen hot at all.

Watched the first several episodes of this.  Really enjoying it!  Never read the books, so knew nothing coming into this.

Also,
100 times this.  Holy hell.  Hollywood really needs to get on the ball poaching Mexican actress's at a much faster rate.

She was hot in Dollhouse ten years ago.

Just finished the series. Loved it. Perfect really. True cyberpunk television shows to binge on demand in 4k or multiple devices over a global network. I am in the future.

The future is here, it's just not widely distributed. -Gibson.

Was about the third episode where it came together for me, and I stopped questioning the changes and just enjoyed it.

Had to buy Sune Wagner’s cover of More Human than Human, just wish it weren’t so short

"Unevenly" distributed.

Thanks for the correction.

I loved this show.

My only complaint is:

Really liking this show.  Only 3 episodes in and I did not read the books (or have not yet I should say), but it is working for me.  The cast is great and the dialogue has been perfectly cliché in a good way.

I loved this show apart from super cartoony evil villain. I'm going to keep doing evil shit until you love me is always dumb.

She's obviously cray cray.

This was great, but I wish they'd stuck the landing a bit better.

That's the only change I had a real, real, real major issue with.  It didn't work.  Like, at all.

That's been the only problem with the last three series I've watched: Godless, The Sinner, Altered Carbon.

Yeah this got going in the second episode, but then went to shit from flashback episode to the end.


Oh well!

It is excruciating how much this sucked.  The first half is perfect.  The mystery is interesting.  Joel Kinnaman and Chris Conner are killing it.  The science is cool.  The societal shifts generated by said science are cool.  The violence is really well done.  The abs are insanely chiseled.

Then along comes Dichen Lachman to be absolutely horrible and constantly dribble out pointless nonsense.  She turns this perfect masterpiece into a confused stumbling mess.  It's like a Zach Snyder roman orgy where everyone's mother in law just showed up at the same time. I kept hoping that they'd get back to the cool stuff, but they never do.

The violence is the only thing that's consistently great.  They add in another character just to be violent, and he's great.  Even Lachman gets that right.  But the story is terrible.  The end is so uninteresting.  What a waste.

What utter shite. I forced myself through to episode six and finally gave up when


Only two good things about it were the hotel as Edgar Allen Poe instead of Jimi Hendrix; he actually fit better as the creepy, desperate, guest-less AI hotel (though they likely made the change for rights issues than anything else), and even though I'm as gay as the day is long, the gal playing Ortega is rockin' gorgeous.

I totally disagree with the last three posts. Oh well. I am very happy to be living in a time when The Expanse, Altered Carbon and Bladed Runner 2049 are things.

You can't totally disagree with the last three posts.  I think justdave knows if he is gay.  You have to agree with that part.

I stand corrected.

Hah! Assholes.  :heart:

Are you sure you're gay? Maybe it's just a phase? If you meet the right woman, maybe you'd change your mind.

--Dave

I've tried that, unfortunately. It always comes down to the same conversation.

"I wish you'd put a new roll of toilet paper on when the old one's empty!"

"Yes, well, I wish you had a penis."

Okay, to be a little less dismissive, I should say there were a couple other good things about this. The visuals and sound are gorgeous, aryan abeulita was great, and I actually like Joel Kinnaman as Ryker. Reading the book  I got him into my head as looking like Willem Dafoe, for some reason, and kept wondering why anyone would fuck this guy. Bonus points, it turns out that James Purefoy is no slouch downtown.

This made me go back and re-read the book just to see if I was mis-remembering things, though, and I think that's what killed it for me, it just doesn't feel the same to me. And, hey! I love the Netflix Expanse treatment! Watched the fuck out of that.

Although I agree it sort of fell apart at the end, I enjoyed this immensely. Now someone needs to adapt everything William Gibson has written. I would KILL for a Sprawl series. Cyberpunk is great- if you build a good world, you can tell stories basically forever.

VERY yes. Though, I would agitate for a Virtual Light trilogy show before a Sprawl one, if only because that would be a bit dated unless handled properly.

The Virtual Light story would be a little less action-y than the Sprawl with an even less satisfying ending.

You didn't like the ending of the Sprawl trilogy or Virtual Light? Philistine! It's not like he Neal Stephensoned it.

I loved the ending of both actually. I just think the Sprawl trilogy had a more understandable ending.

Okay, yeah, I gotta give you that one. Alpha Centauri was easier to parse than Laney's weird-ass, bitter end and the whole SB30 thing.

I overall liked the Sprawl trilogy, but Neuromancer was just such a better book than the other two.  It was a perfect self contained story, and while I don't think the later two where terrible by any means, they were just far less interesting stories.  Again, I enjoyed them, but not sure it would be wise to try and adapt the trilogy to screen, as opposed to just doing Neuromancer by itself.

The best idea would be to take any of the shorts from Burning Chrome and just flesh that out into something. The trilogies are just too strong in book form even for this golden age of TV and are in an awkward place future wise as part of the future-tech in them is now-tech right now.

I actually think the Pattern Recognition trilogy could be pretty fantastic as the bones for a tv series. Like a smarter/more real Mr Robot. Would love to see that.

Renewed with Anthony Mackie as the new lead. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/altered-carbon-renewed-season-2-new-star-anthony-mackie-1130243)

Interesting.

Happy to hear it.

And further to the posts above, Amazon may be doing (https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/17/17247828/amazon-william-gibson-the-peripheral-novel-series) William Gibson's The Peripheral as a series.

That looks more like they are doing The Peripheral as a series rather than anything in the Pattern Recognition series.

Apologies, I was posting at stupid o'clock and typed the wrong thing. Corrected.

Looking forward to both S2 and The Peripheral. TP is a good setup for a slower narrative like a series...a movie would take too long to set things up.

Finally caught up to this. Been so long since I read this book that I only remember flashes so didn't have any issues with changes as I didn't even notice them.  Ortega is indeed hot as balls and Poe was a great alteration for sure.  Third Act problems (way too much exposition, Expanse is doing that kind of thing much better, hopefully they get better at it in S2).  I did love bad-ass S&M Lizzie. Wish we got actually more of that and she got to fight a boss instead of redshirts.

Can't believe all this talk of upcoming cyber without mentioning that Amazon is doing fucking Snowcrash (allegedly, been kinda quiet about it for a while).

They are ?  I've always thought putting that on screen would be utter balls.  Like, Ready Player One type balls.

Hmm, yeah, I'm torn.  Enjoyed the book, but it's going to be really hard to capture that insane/satirical world on screen.  Like, Brazil is the only movie I can think of that did that sort of thing successfully.

Rewatching this and loving it all over again. I put captions on so I don't miss a word of the set-up and world-building. It's so well done. So much attention to detail.

Season 2 coming soon, but only has 8 episodes (10 in season 1). Maybe help them stick the landing, but I still think the first season is up there with the best things on Netflix.

I loved Season 1 as well. I'm a bit nervous for Season 2 but only because I haven't seen anything Anthony Mackie was in that I enjoyed him in except Marvel movies. For me, he feels sort of bland as an actor.

I'm looking forward to season 2 but it will take an adjustment getting used to Kovacs not being Joel Kinnaman. I really got to like him in the role and was kind of hoping we'd see him again. I'm really going to miss Poe.

And I know you get the irony of that entirely.

 :why_so_serious:

Perhaps you're not. (https://www.radiotimes.com/news/on-demand/2019-08-28/altered-carbon-season-2-netflix-release-date-cast-anthony-mackie/)

Happiness is me.  :grin:

In this series, death is just a brief dirt-nap. The *protagonist* is dead several times over by any rational measure, even in-universe.

--Dave

Well with Poe it's slightly different, since he's an AI and they sort of erased/melted him.  Same in universe if you destroy somebodies chip.

I really liked him also, but kind of cheapens the death to bring him back.

Seems to me an AI is the easiest person to bring back.  He could literally just pulled from a floppy disk backup.  “Oh look, here’s Poe right here in this thumbdrive I forgot I had in my pocket.  I am probably missing some critical detail.  I honestly don’t remember shit from this show, I don’t think I was paying close enough attention when I watched it the first time.

Wait, I remember hot Latina lady.

Hot Latina Lady was the highlight for me as well.

My only regret about a second series not in the same place with the same people is the removal of Hot Latina Lady.

I am glad we are all on the same page in this regard.

Hot Latina Lady 2020

Hot Latina Lady in I-Land Vs Hot Latina Lady in Altered Carbon.

FIGHT.

Apparently she's so notorious for doing nude scenes that some Mexican satire site did a joke about her stripping down for a radio interview.

No one should make Hot Latina Lady feel bad about getting nekkid. It is a wonder to behold.

The Poe actor is listed as being in the second season.

Teaser out with absolutely no substance and pretty close release date (2/27/20):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_diaRwW6a4

OMG yet another thing I have to watch that I don't have time for because I am so busy watching things.

New teaser with (https://youtu.be/BpbtLSJEHJQ) marginally more content.

Re-watching the first season in anticipation of S2 and can't believe I missed some Baby Metal as some diegetic music in ep 3.

I rewatched with my wife (her first time through) recently, and it made a LOT more sense the second time through. I was a little foggy on some of the plot points after about Ep 5 or 6 (although that may just have been the overdose of endorphins when Ortega got naked).

I am not a huge fan of Anthony Mackie, but I have high hopes for S2 regardless.

Started re-watching in anticipation of S2, and I like it better on this go around and that's even before getting to the bits about Ortega's bits.  I think I was pre-occupied first time I watched this and/or this just improves on a second viewing.

I rewatched it again too and liked it more.  Still think the last couple of eps get way too wordy/expositiony but it was a solid season.

The second half of the series was pretty bad. The current day stuff was ok in bits (the sister stuff was stupid bad), but the history was very cheap for what it was trying to convey, and I found it really undercut a lot of what had been built to that point.

First half was some quality TV though.

One and a bit episodes in to S2 and it feels all off. Busy and boring.

I just finished the re-watch of S1....and while I still generally agree that the second half of the season is not as good as the first, my opinion of it was much improved on second viewing.  I think I was just generally better able to follow-along the second time around.

Bummer if the second season drops off.

It get a bit better, but never really settles into being especially good, for me.

They really toned down the hot naked girl quota for the second season.

And the naked guy quota.

And having an interesting mystery to drive the plot.

And any sort of pacing.

This season feels like they're just painting in the numbers to get to the next scene.. every scene.

Lamaros, I strongly disagree with your take on S1. Altered Carbon is one of the best sci-fi shows of recent years, the best cyberpunk I've ever seen in video form. The second half of the first season is brilliant.

I haven't been able to start watching season 2 yet, but if your numerous posts and previous takes are any indication, I might love it.

If the fact that I agree with you about the first half of S1 and disagree about the second half is any indication, you might equally dislike it.

But I like your positive thinking.

I am only three episodes into S2, and despite a rocky start with the first episode (okay, technically I was also drunk and not paying close attention) I like it plenty.  I miss Joel Kinnaman, because that dude was literally perfect for the role of Kovacs.  I think that may be the one thing that makes it most difficult to get into it again.

But yeah, still good cyberpunk, the best that has ever been on TV.

I agree with missing Kinneman. But I'm six episodes in and this is good shit. 

Having the

I try not get get all fanboi about stuff, but I guess I haven't lost that part of me that can still wonder at the idea that we are privileged enough that we get to see stuff like this.  Everything has flaws, but holy shit are we spoiled when we can watch something like this and think "meh".

Not meant as a dig at Lamaros, I think most people do it.

I hear ya. Read today that the first season was the most expensive season of television ever produced. You can tell they scaled it back this season but this is solid sci-fi and even rarer cyber-punk. Between this and The Expanse I am in hog heaven.

I'm aware I'm more critical, I also watch a lot less tv than most it seems, so feel like I can afford to be picky and only watch really wonderful stuff. It's not bad tv. It's just not first season True Detective, first season Westworld, etc great.

Heh, we have noticed. 

The discussion makes me think of stuff like all the Marvel stuff on Netflix.  While I can see and understand all the complaints, I still basically love it all.  I still have that kid in me that hasn’t become so cynical and/or let’s me overlook the flaws.  I am thankful for that.

Huh. Didn't realize it was 8 eps instead of ten. Tighter story for sure.  Enjoyed the season.

I got a bit bored after ep 7 and didn't watch it for a week, didn't realise it was just one episode more. Finished it last night and.. eh. If it's mean to call it rushed and vapid, maybe I can say it's... eh... In terms of what they fit in first season felt like 20 episodes, and this one felt like 4..

I feel like I would have enjoyed it more if it accepted its limited scope and didn't try and make it about everything. I think they forced drama and meaning rather than enjoying the story they wanted to tell and letting it work its way out naturally, so it didn't really have any slow moments to build and release tension. It was just, next, next, next.

Tl;dr: It's watchable. It's not great - it's not leaving me wanting another season, and I won't talk about how good it is like (most of) Season 1 - but it's got fun moments.

Don't really disagree with your take but i have a low enjoyment bar for TV scifi.

I thought Carrera was a highlight as well.  Guy mostly works in Germany so hope to see him in more stuff here.

Yeah, kinda lost interest and checked out.  I probably didn't give it a fair enough shake, but it does not match up to S1 IMO.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2020-03-09/altered-carbon-resleeved-anime-unveils-trailer-japanese-cast-march-19-debut/.157340

Animated series coming out... next month.

Finished S2 a few days ago. It had a very rocky start, but the last 3 eps were much better. I could never get into Falconer- she bores the shit out of me. I am not sure if it is a character thing, or an actor thing, but it is just really hard for me to give much of a shit. Mackie was better than I had anticipated, but still a long way down from Kinnaman.

I really loved
One quick spoiler-y question-
I hope they do a season 3. I could use a break from Kovacs/Falconer. Such a cool world- it should be relatively easy to concoct an interesting story.

My take on this -

Good point. I forgot he showed up later.

Finally managed to watch S2! I enjoyed it. I think I would like anything set in the Altered Carbon universe. I savoured this season over a couple of weeks, as I'm currently primary carer of my 10-month-old son. Bingeing TV or watching a whole movie is never a thing anymore, and when I do get a chance I fall asleep instead.

I thought Mackie was really good. He was still Kovacs. Telling the story of Harlan's World made sense to me as the next thing after S1. I enjoyed the world-building again. In gaming I am often an explorer type, so perhaps it's something about me enjoying believable fictional worlds. Cyberpunk, being near-future science fiction and mostly an extension of current technologies, helps me suspend disbelief.

Please don't read this spoiler if you haven't watched it.

Cancelled.

That sounds about right. I couldn't get passed the first 3-4 episodes of S2.

It was not a smooth transition between seasons.  Same problem here.

Were I Amazon Prime Video, I would try to pick this up Expanse style. Promise to do it better than season 2, let the nerds hype it for you, and be happy with the audience that results because it's a Netflix-level audience again on Prime.

I don't think I made it past the 1st ep of season 2, but I did enjoy the anime (as someone who doesn't enjoy anime, I was impressed af).

Same here, unfortunately, although it is a series that I'll eventually go back to. I'll have to check out the anime.

I think I made it like 2-4 eps, it just felt very forced. Victim of how hype I was to watch it I guess. Shame really.

S2 was a huge letdown. Was hoping for a S3 with no mention of Quellcrist. I like the setting, but goddamn that character bores the absolute shit out of me.

At this point, I think I'd rather they let it sit for 8 years and then reboot it.

Season 1:  Outstanding, watched it twice.
Season 2:  I guess I watched it.  I remember literally nothing.

I started typing a thing about watching this and all the stuff I liked and midway through realised that actually all the positive points I was making were from Season 1 and the only bits of Season 2 I remembered were the disappointing parts. I found the archaeologist AI kind of fun and the overarching plot was a nice bit of worldbuilding but none of the sideplots were very enjoyable and it was really forgettable.