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f13.net General Forums => Diablo 3 => Topic started by: schild on September 17, 2013, 01:11:52 PM



Title: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: schild on September 17, 2013, 01:11:52 PM
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/10974978/

Quote
When we initially designed and implemented the auction houses, the driving goal was to provide a convenient and secure system for trades. But as we've mentioned on different occasions, it became increasingly clear that despite the benefits of the AH system and the fact that many players around the world use it, it ultimately undermines Diablo's core game play: kill monsters to get cool loot. With that in mind, we want to let everyone know that we've decided to remove the gold and real-money auction house system from Diablo III.

We feel that this move along with the Loot 2.0 system being developed concurrently with Reaper of Souls™ will result in a much more rewarding game experience for our players.

We're working out the details of how the auction house system will be shut down, but we wanted to share the news as soon as we made the decision in order to give everyone as much advance notice as possible. Please note that the shutdown will occur on March 18, 2014. We will keep everyone informed as we work through this process.
Josh Mosqueira and I wanted to provide everyone with a little more information behind this decision, so please have a look at the video, and stay tuned to this site for further updates in the months ahead.

Well then, they better have fixed the loot system.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Nonentity on September 17, 2013, 01:18:35 PM
FINE WHATEVER


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Simond on September 17, 2013, 01:19:37 PM
Isn't Loot 2.0 basically the console version loot? That seems to be working okay.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: dusematic on September 17, 2013, 01:19:57 PM
Comes about three months too late as I already announced I'm done with Blizzard.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Nonentity on September 17, 2013, 01:20:25 PM
Yeah, the console version of D3 is actually quite good. I played the demo and was kind of surprised by how differently it plays. The Less Loot But Better Loot works out pretty well there.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: schild on September 17, 2013, 01:20:35 PM
Duse, you spent like $300+ on the Diablo 3 auction house. Blizzard doesn't care if they don't get any more of your time or money.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: dusematic on September 17, 2013, 01:21:52 PM
Duse, you spent like $300+ on the Diablo 3 auction house. Blizzard doesn't care if they don't get any more of your time or money.

Right, I mean they are adding that, per the very end of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vTeJOqO0Tbg

These people:
1. Sound medicated or stupid
2. Believe we give a shit about story
3. Kiss my ass

I made it about 45 seconds in.  Sorry.

Why apologize? It was a pretty terrible presentation, but that's what happens when you let designers do marketing.

I really do try to be thorough, but I failed.

I don't have a concise statement on why the base mechanics are dumb, and I think others have mostly covered it in one way or another, but fixing loot isn't going to fix the game.  I suppose that I could say: I don't have anything much to think about in D3 except which skills I should have on at any time.  I certainly don't have to think about equipment, I just need the largest numerals in the display to be as high as possible.  Is there some benefit to collecting a set of equipment other than the main rating of each?  I've been playing too much PoE to remember how items work in D3.  I think with magic find being removed (still? I forget) I won't even have to worry about the one thing I cared about outside ARMOR/DPS.  Just BIG NUMBERS, BIG PRIZES, I LOVE IT.  That's a different game, though.

1.  The lack of the 'ping' sound when rings dropped in Diablo 3 was a deafening silence.  Just about emotionally crippling for me.

I feel that this is really one of the major things wrong with D3.  Don't laugh.  I mean that the fact that the designers left it out speaks fucking volumes.  Volumes!

PoE has implemented some distinct drop sounds to go along with their interesting item scheme.

It's thematic to the game.  It would be like if the next Warcraft game didn't have the orcs and elves say funny little things when you clicked on them.  I also think the cartoony art style they borrowed from WoW, while looking good on its own merits, doesn't fit thematically with Diablo.  I looked at Diablo 3 and said, hey, this looks like WoW: ARPG.  Fans and detractors of the look mostly focused on whether it looked bad or good, whether it was "dark enough" or "too bright."  Okay.  But as a fan of the first two Diablos, it doesn't feel like Diablo.  I think it's difficult to have a mature serious game about killing Satan that looks cartoony.  It's thematically jarring.  And all of these little things on their own people may say aren't a big deal, but it adds up.  

Plus Auction House.  I can't believe nobody at Blizz predicted there was a good chance the AH would hurt the game.  It could only be a naked cash grab.  For pete's sake, it isn't a huge deductive l;eap when you're designing a game and testing a game, to say, "hey, this game we're making that's all about acquiring items? A universal AH can only ensure that the items individuals find will never be as good as those collectively found and posted to the AH, thus reducing the game to a boring grind for gold...to buy items in a boring arms length transaction that feels like work while you wonder if you actually got screwed because you have a job and don't know the current FMV of The Burning Axe of Sankis."

Ultimately, people with jobs and weak moral compasses like me then go on a massive ill advised shopping spree on the RMAH and get grief titled.  Then they're done with the game because all it took to win the game was a bottle of vodka, bad impulse control, and $800 or so dollars.  So okay, Blizz made another $80 dollars off of me.  Congrats. Tip o' the cap.  But now I'm done with Diablo 3 and done with Blizzard and I'm on the internet talking shit.  They'll PROBABLY survive as a company but as a result, how many people are totally in on the next Blizz game? 

The health globes that spawned from killing monsters were also dumb and made the game feel arcadey.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Nonentity on September 17, 2013, 01:22:46 PM
I actually liked the health globe/potion change. Made the game more about thinking on your feet for individual encounters than bringing enough potions.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: dusematic on September 17, 2013, 01:24:40 PM
I actually liked the health globe/potion change. Made the game more about thinking on your feet for individual encounters than bringing enough potions.

Thinking on your feet to me is about judicious resource management, not killing as quickly as possible to spawn more health globes.  It doesn't make sense even in the retarded internal fantasy logic of the game.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ragnoros on September 17, 2013, 01:25:44 PM
Boo! The problem was not that there was an AH, the problem was that the loot sucked, so AH was the only sane route. They better have something in mind to replace it, cause I am not going to go back to spamming fucking trade chat. The dumb part is they are already locking all the new tailored drops to your account, just like they did the crafted items, so half of the shit you find won't even be tradable anyway.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Rokal on September 17, 2013, 01:27:37 PM
Can't believe they're actually removing it. Ballsy.

Looking forward to the expansion at this point, they're clearly willing to make some massive changes to improve the game, even if it hurts their wallet.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: dusematic on September 17, 2013, 01:30:27 PM
This is really the one move they could have made to bring me back.  Not back to D3 mind you, that chapter of my life is forever closed.  But it is actually a fairly ballsy move, even if it was the only thing they could do to save their game in the face of low concurrent playerbase and resoundingly shitty word of mouth.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: dusematic on September 17, 2013, 01:31:19 PM
Boo! The problem was not that there was an AH, the problem was that the loot sucked, s

Those two things are inexorably intertwined.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2013, 01:41:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsaTElBljOE


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Strazos on September 17, 2013, 01:42:46 PM
What is this - it's not April 1st, is it? :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ingmar on September 17, 2013, 01:47:17 PM
I actually liked the health globe/potion change. Made the game more about thinking on your feet for individual encounters than bringing enough potions.

Yes, globes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potions.

I don't really care about the AH change one way or the other. It never had much of an impact on my play (and yes I finished Inferno.)

Isn't Loot 2.0 basically the console version loot? That seems to be working okay.

It isn't, no. It's an overhaul to itemization entirely.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: sickrubik on September 17, 2013, 01:49:29 PM
Yeah, I never had a real big problem with the AH. I used the Gold AH a little bit.

But, I'm guessing Reaper will be out right around then. This sounds like a launch patch or pre launch patch.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Lucas on September 17, 2013, 01:53:50 PM
Now what (beside Loot 2.0)? Possible new "currency" (or more than one) like it happens in PoE?


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: MrHat on September 17, 2013, 01:54:24 PM
Man I wish there was a place I could just buy some decent items so I could advance to the next part of this game.

-Diablo Gamers March 19th 2014.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Paelos on September 17, 2013, 01:55:01 PM
I've made my money on it so I'm fine with the change. I cashed out about a month ago, but tbh the markets have completely crashed and inflation was so out of control the system was going to collapse anyway.

They'll open the door again to 3rd party, but who cares. At this point the RMAH and AH simply weren't feasible if you wanted to have a real game.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Fabricated on September 17, 2013, 02:16:08 PM
Horry Shieet. I wonder if this was some genuine change of heart that was greenlit because of the expansion coming up, or a reaction to some kind of internal numbers?


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: MrHat on September 17, 2013, 02:25:38 PM
Horry Shieet. I wonder if this was some genuine change of heart that was greenlit because of the expansion coming up, or a reaction to some kind of internal numbers?

What do you mean by internal numbers? Like what Paelos was saying re: the economy completely crashing+inflation?


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Fabricated on September 17, 2013, 02:30:25 PM
Basically; that and player numbers.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: jakonovski on September 17, 2013, 02:51:08 PM
I might actually go for a second playthrough now. Whoah.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Merusk on September 17, 2013, 02:56:16 PM
Horry Shieet. I wonder if this was some genuine change of heart that was greenlit because of the expansion coming up, or a reaction to some kind of internal numbers?

What do you mean by internal numbers? Like what Paelos was saying re: the economy completely crashing+inflation?

How about 'internal numbers' like "What do you MEAN we have to send w4s* to 13,000 people because of the RMT AH!?"

* (Yes, I'm sure I have the wrong form number)


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 17, 2013, 03:01:23 PM
Holy shitballs.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Malakili on September 17, 2013, 03:18:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_lFbdP8xMU

EDIT: For a serious answer.  I'm happy to see it go, basically, as it indicates they are serious about fixing loot. I do hope, however, that they add some proper chat channels and/or the ability to create named lobbies/have them appear on a list in order to facilitate trading.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Draegan on September 17, 2013, 03:51:14 PM
I might actually play past a single normal difficulty game.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Reg on September 17, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
Now they need to make all of the best items account-bind-on-pickup so that all you can do is trade them to your other characters.  With the AH gone there's no reason to even let people do selling via spam or 3rd party websites.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Malakili on September 17, 2013, 04:07:26 PM
Now they need to make all of the best items account-bind-on-pickup so that all you can do is trade them to your other characters.  With the AH gone there's no reason to even let people do selling via spam or 3rd party websites.

No. :ye_gods:



Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Reg on September 17, 2013, 04:10:43 PM
Don't be shocked if that's exactly what they do.  They don't like 3rd parties making money off their games.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Kail on September 17, 2013, 04:12:40 PM
Sorry if this has already been covered, but are they nixing the "always online" requirement, too?  The RMAH was the main justification I heard for it.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Malakili on September 17, 2013, 04:15:57 PM
Don't be shocked if that's exactly what they do.  They don't like 3rd parties making money off their games.

I'll be shocked if they do.



Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Tannhauser on September 17, 2013, 04:22:14 PM
This is very good news, if they fix up the loot drops.  Having said that, I still won't be buying the xpac on Day One, I'll wait this time and see how it rolls out.

Can anyone reach Jay Wilson for a comment?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Yegolev on September 17, 2013, 04:24:00 PM
Let's not forget that the AH hasn't always been a well-oiled machine that is immune to abuse.  I do like how they aren't really admitting they were wrong, though.  Ten points to Slitherin for that one.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ingmar on September 17, 2013, 04:29:57 PM
Don't be shocked if that's exactly what they do.  They don't like 3rd parties making money off their games.

I think it could happen. Going back to a trading/3rd party item economy creates massive customer support headaches for them due to scamming, etc.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Malakili on September 17, 2013, 04:38:03 PM
Don't be shocked if that's exactly what they do.  They don't like 3rd parties making money off their games.

I think it could happen. Going back to a trading/3rd party item economy creates massive customer support headaches for them due to scamming, etc.

I just can't get over the fact that I'm inevitably going to get 4 of one drop and 0 of another and be unable to trade the excess for the one I want.  Smart Loot or not, it's going to happen.  I can't imagine that's the route they want either.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 17, 2013, 04:42:37 PM
They're still fucking douchebags.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: MrHat on September 17, 2013, 04:46:47 PM
Now they need to make all of the best items account-bind-on-pickup so that all you can do is trade them to your other characters.  With the AH gone there's no reason to even let people do selling via spam or 3rd party websites.

The only thing the should have done, months ago, is make any item bought off the AH bind-on-account.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Hutch on September 17, 2013, 04:47:29 PM
Sorry if this has already been covered, but are they nixing the "always online" requirement, too?  The RMAH was the main justification I heard for it.

They haven't said. That question is one of the most common followups that I've seen in comment threads on this topic, though. Personally, I think always-online will still be with us.

With the AH in the game, always-online is necessary to provide at least the veneer of a level playing field.
Once the (RM)AH is gone, always-online will revert to its more basic function, i.e. DRM. I don't see Blizzard giving that up.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 17, 2013, 04:52:29 PM
No, especially since that shit is in SCII and is used for the delivery system.

The Cunts.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Margalis on September 17, 2013, 05:05:03 PM
Looking forward to the expansion at this point, they're clearly willing to make some massive changes to improve the game, even if it hurts their wallet.

I suspect someone realized that the long-term damage to the Diablo brand was far more costly than losing the AH revenue.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: K9 on September 17, 2013, 05:06:20 PM
Honestly, this would definitely get me to have another look at the game.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Sjofn on September 17, 2013, 06:14:07 PM
Boo! The problem was not that there was an AH, the problem was that the loot sucked, so AH was the only sane route. They better have something in mind to replace it, cause I am not going to go back to spamming fucking trade chat. The dumb part is they are already locking all the new tailored drops to your account, just like they did the crafted items, so half of the shit you find won't even be tradable anyway.

preach it


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Maledict on September 17, 2013, 06:30:14 PM
I don't think people are capturing some of the reasons the AH was bad - and those reasons are basic economics not game design. Whether the loot was designed to be shitty or not for the AH doesn't matter. Even if loot was better the AH would still have dominated the game, for two simple reasons.

I) a fundamental fact of economics is barriers to entry. The higher the barrier, the fewer people will enter the market. The old trade sites weren't a problem because only a really small % of the population used them - it took too much effort and risk for people to start buying gear on the AH. By creating an in game AH that was so easy to use Blizzard basically lowered he entry barrier to 0, which pushed almost everyone into the market. What they saw as an advantage, by making a risky unsafe process into something easy everyone could do, ended up as a disadvantage because it basically pushed everyone into it.

II) as a result of that, blizzard introduced a huge amount of liquidity into the market. In a game where loot is rolled randomly across a huge variety of numbers and stats, blizzard basically pushed every item generated onto the AH - and because everyone was using it, it devalued loot that otherwise would have been great. Under the old system of D2 items that were sub-par had value because the market was so much smaller (dupes aside). In D3 that wasn't the case - there were simply too many items being generated and flung onto the AH at no cost to the lister that it completely destroyed a lot of the value of loot. ARPGs always have items that are a bit better than what you have, that's part of the draw. But it changes the game when that item is sat in the in game AH right in front of you one click away.

Even if the loot had been good and not so shitty, the AH would have had a detrimental affect on the game because of the fundamentals it changes. As it happens, it combined with the crap loot and insanely stupid, WoW approach to Inferno difficulty that really poisoned a lot of people's opinions.

What I also don't understand are their protestations that they never saw it as an issue because their in game testing didn't use it. That's got to be a lie, and if it isn't someone's head should roll because these problems are really basic fundamentals that anyone who ever read a basic text book could outline. Their one of gamings largest companies with more money than 5 other studios combined, and yet they didn't have anyone on staff who could tell them what introducing a completely risk free, instantaneous auction house would do to a game like Diablo 3?



Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Mrbloodworth on September 17, 2013, 06:38:19 PM
Economics effected the game design.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Malakili on September 17, 2013, 07:07:10 PM
I don't think people are capturing some of the reasons the AH was bad - and those reasons are basic economics not game design. Whether the loot was designed to be shitty or not for the AH doesn't matter. Even if loot was better the AH would still have dominated the game, for two simple reasons.

I) a fundamental fact of economics is barriers to entry. The higher the barrier, the fewer people will enter the market. The old trade sites weren't a problem because only a really small % of the population used them - it took too much effort and risk for people to start buying gear on the AH. By creating an in game AH that was so easy to use Blizzard basically lowered he entry barrier to 0, which pushed almost everyone into the market. What they saw as an advantage, by making a risky unsafe process into something easy everyone could do, ended up as a disadvantage because it basically pushed everyone into it.

Are we talking about the RMAH or the gold AH here?  I don't get the impression at all that "almost everyone" used the RMAH. 

Quote
insanely stupid, WoW approach to Inferno difficulty that really poisoned a lot of people's opinions.

Although they eventually backed off it in terms of the act based progression in Inferno, the idea that Inferno alone is the "end game" still grinds my gears.  The idea that I could find an item in Nightmare that was an "end game" item is one of the things I really liked about Diablo 2.  But this won't change with loot 2.0, I'm afraid.



Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ingmar on September 17, 2013, 08:11:03 PM
Yeah I think the people who used the RMAH were a tiny minority. What may have been more true is that people bought gold on the RMAH and then used gold on the gold AH, though.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Shatter on September 17, 2013, 08:40:22 PM
I liked D3 but the loot was complete ass and its still all f*cked up.  Removing the RMAH and actually fixing the loot are definitely steps in the right direction if you want to make some sort of recovery in this game. 


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: calapine on September 17, 2013, 11:01:25 PM
They should make it so that the AH only get's turned of for expansion-users. So you'd have to pay get rid of it!

And a premium-upgrade that allows you to never see Metzen's writing again. "Skip all of Leah's dialog for only $19.99!"  :grin:


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: apocrypha on September 18, 2013, 12:29:43 AM
They should make it so that the AH only get's turned of for expansion-users. So you'd have to pay get rid of it!

And a premium-upgrade that allows you to never see Metzen's writing again. "Skip all of Leah's dialog for only $19.99!"  :grin:

For god's sake shush!!! Don't give them ideas!


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Musashi on September 18, 2013, 01:24:33 AM
I've been sure that the reality of the deleterious effects of the rmah would eventually become so obvious that they would realize they would have to remove it. I dared not hope that they would remove the equally heinous gold ah at the same time. Now we can go back to hawking soj's as god intended.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Maledict on September 18, 2013, 02:13:09 AM
I honestly don't think the RMAH is the cause of the problems. I did before the game launched, but changed my mind once I saw it in action. The gold AH more than anything was the problem because it was literally zero cost for anyone to use it. There will always be a subset of players not willing to spend RL money on the AH, but there was no disincentive at all to use the gold AH.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 18, 2013, 03:34:24 AM
I agree.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: K9 on September 18, 2013, 09:00:02 AM
I don't think people are capturing some of the reasons the AH was bad - and those reasons are basic economics not game design. Whether the loot was designed to be shitty or not for the AH doesn't matter. Even if loot was better the AH would still have dominated the game, for two simple reasons.

I) a fundamental fact of economics is barriers to entry. The higher the barrier, the fewer people will enter the market. The old trade sites weren't a problem because only a really small % of the population used them - it took too much effort and risk for people to start buying gear on the AH. By creating an in game AH that was so easy to use Blizzard basically lowered he entry barrier to 0, which pushed almost everyone into the market. What they saw as an advantage, by making a risky unsafe process into something easy everyone could do, ended up as a disadvantage because it basically pushed everyone into it.

II) as a result of that, blizzard introduced a huge amount of liquidity into the market. In a game where loot is rolled randomly across a huge variety of numbers and stats, blizzard basically pushed every item generated onto the AH - and because everyone was using it, it devalued loot that otherwise would have been great. Under the old system of D2 items that were sub-par had value because the market was so much smaller (dupes aside). In D3 that wasn't the case - there were simply too many items being generated and flung onto the AH at no cost to the lister that it completely destroyed a lot of the value of loot. ARPGs always have items that are a bit better than what you have, that's part of the draw. But it changes the game when that item is sat in the in game AH right in front of you one click away.

Even if the loot had been good and not so shitty, the AH would have had a detrimental affect on the game because of the fundamentals it changes. As it happens, it combined with the crap loot and insanely stupid, WoW approach to Inferno difficulty that really poisoned a lot of people's opinions.

What I also don't understand are their protestations that they never saw it as an issue because their in game testing didn't use it. That's got to be a lie, and if it isn't someone's head should roll because these problems are really basic fundamentals that anyone who ever read a basic text book could outline. Their one of gamings largest companies with more money than 5 other studios combined, and yet they didn't have anyone on staff who could tell them what introducing a completely risk free, instantaneous auction house would do to a game like Diablo 3?



Well put


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Xanthippe on September 18, 2013, 10:14:22 AM
Why does it always take Blizzard 2 years to fix glaringly stupid decisions?


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 18, 2013, 10:23:13 AM

Their one of gamings largest companies with more money than 5 other studios combined, and yet they didn't have anyone on staff who could tell them what introducing a completely risk free, instantaneous auction house would do to a game like Diablo 3?


One guy did, but fuck that loser.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: schild on September 18, 2013, 10:39:09 AM

Their one of gamings largest companies with more money than 5 other studios combined, and yet they didn't have anyone on staff who could tell them what introducing a completely risk free, instantaneous auction house would do to a game like Diablo 3?
One guy did, but fuck that loser.
:thumbs_up:


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Yegolev on September 18, 2013, 10:58:11 AM
I don't think it's been said yet: Economics affected game design.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: schild on September 18, 2013, 12:06:45 PM
Economics has been affecting game design since Product Managers burst fully armored from the head of the MBA overlord, Doucheophecles.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Maledict on September 18, 2013, 12:25:37 PM
There's a difference between economics which is about how much cash we can screw out of people (which is really more business design than anything) and economics which is about the unintended consequences of creating an almost perfect free market environment.

And hey, just like in real life the people who actually produce stuff get paid a lot less than those who can play the market! ;-)


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: apocrypha on September 18, 2013, 12:32:03 PM
Sorry if this has already been covered, but are they nixing the "always online" requirement, too?  The RMAH was the main justification I heard for it.

Nope. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/09/18/despite-auction-house-removal-diablo-staying-online-only/)

Quote
“We do not have plans to implement an offline mode. While the always-online requirement made the auction house possible, the auction house was never the driving factor in our decision to make the PC version of Diablo III require an Internet connection. The game was built from the ground up to take full advantage of Battle.net, which provides a number of important benefits, including persistent server-side character saves, a seamless PC multiplayer experience, cheat prevention, and Real ID and BattleTag social features.”


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 18, 2013, 01:53:42 PM
A seamless performance unless your broadband is shit and prone to outages.

Also, they never said it was about the AH ?  They totally fucking did, the bastards.

Seriously, this is just more shit from Blizzard.  Changes not a fucking thing in my mind.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Yegolev on September 18, 2013, 03:00:59 PM
What a bunch of lies.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Fabricated on September 18, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
After putting some time into D3 again, then just this last week starting a new character in Torchlight 2 with some quality-of-life mods it really stuns me how much better of a game TL2 is despite its faults.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: schild on September 18, 2013, 03:09:16 PM
Shame the quality of life in base TL2 is basically NOLA after Katrina.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Setanta on September 18, 2013, 05:12:39 PM
After putting some time into D3 again, then just this last week starting a new character in Torchlight 2 with some quality-of-life mods it really stuns me how much better of a game TL2 is despite its faults.

Which mods? I really want to give TL2 another shot


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Fabricated on September 18, 2013, 05:22:29 PM
After putting some time into D3 again, then just this last week starting a new character in Torchlight 2 with some quality-of-life mods it really stuns me how much better of a game TL2 is despite its faults.

Which mods? I really want to give TL2 another shot
Ember Gem Upgrade, Extra Chunky, free entrance revive, respec potion, 5-minute buff durations, affix upgrade so far.

I liked that TL2 encouraged just using gems instead of hoarding them but they drop so frequently and don't really sell for THAT much. Just continue to use them as you find them, then every now and then go and transmute your trash gems to better ones.

Extra Chunky adds a lot more map "chunks" and messes a bit with how they're all arranged, so all of the maps and dungeons in the game have a LOT more variation. It's great.

Free entrance revive is just because like half the time when you die you have a stupid TP or a waypoint right there anyway so cut to the chase.

Respec potion is obvious.

5-minute buffs makes playing any build with a lot of passive buffs a lot less annoying. I got fucking tired of renewing stormstrike over and over.

Affix upgrade is the iffiest; it just adds a ton more item affixes with different stuff. The author tried to make them not broken and it seems okay so far. More varied loot is nice. Particularly since it lets me avoid the trap of having the whole "house of cards" setup where all my equipment is so layered with base-stat buffs I need half my equipment to equip the other half.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 18, 2013, 09:56:10 PM
A seamless performance unless your broadband is shit and prone to outages.

I visited my parents for a month and a half (yay layoffs!) to help out while pop was recovering from knee surgery.
So I had lots of time to game when I wasn't helping out.
They live out in the sticks, and have sattelite internet, which was utter shite for playing any game online. Diablo 3 was a complete fail, and X-Com was ok, except Steam kept sucking up all their useage allotment unti I threw it into offline mode.

So yeah. Always online is uber stupid when a game doesn't absolutley require it. I mean, a simple offline tag system for characters, like in D2...


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Ironwood on September 19, 2013, 04:01:34 AM
Now try Scotland, a fucking third world wasteland for Broadband.

Yeah, I wasn't happy with this decision from the outset.  To hear them continue to talk shit about it just reinforces my already iron clad decision not to give Blizzard another fucking penny of my money ever.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Simond on September 19, 2013, 03:17:42 PM
Why does it always take Blizzard 2 years to fix glaringly stupid decisions?
Because it takes Blizzard two years to do anything?  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Thrawn on September 20, 2013, 09:30:11 AM
All the D3 talk actually got me to reinstall it last night and play around for the first time in a while.  I remember when I last put it down I couldn't get past the start of Act 3 in Inferno, the first set of monsters would kill me.  Now I come back and with the same gear and skills I walked through to killing Diablo without breaking a sweat.

So now I have no reason to even keep playing though unless I just start rolling alts.  I can kill the end boss on Inferno with almost no fear of dying pretty quickly so loot barley matters to me so time to just uninstall again?  Unless I went back to playing Hardcore I guess, but tend to get put off from that every time I get server lag or leashing that almost kills me. :uhrr:


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Maledict on September 20, 2013, 09:45:29 AM
Um, they  added in a monster power scaling system. It is set at 0 by default by goes up to 10 and is incredibly tough at those levels. You get far more loot and experience at the higher levels.

In addition, they added in post-Diablo contact where you can fight two of the major bosses at once, boosted, to farm ingredients for a unique ring with a massive bonus to experience gain on it.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Thrawn on September 20, 2013, 09:48:04 AM
Um, they  added in a monster power scaling system. It is set at 0 by default by goes up to 10 and is incredibly tough at those levels. You get far more loot and experience at the higher levels.

In addition, they added in post-Diablo contact where you can fight two of the major bosses at once, boosted, to farm ingredients for a unique ring with a massive bonus to experience gain on it.

Ah, glad I posted then.  Had no idea since I quit following the game at all, just blindly installed it and continued normal progression.


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Miasma on September 20, 2013, 10:09:47 AM
I think they added some sort of alternate advancement once you hit level cap as well.

Maybe I'll install it again and see if I can get through inferno too.

Edit: Oh wait what ever happened with that bullshit death penalty crap they added where it cost a fortune and they put timers on bosses and such.  Did they ever add gold back to barrels?


Title: Re: WHOA THEY'RE DOING IT
Post by: Segoris on September 20, 2013, 10:17:02 AM
-Gold costs for death and repairs are not what they once were when people were going bankrupt and whatever the indestructible item affix was actually useful.

-Alt advancement is what the paragon system is. Hit max level and all xp after that goes towards this, which boosts your magic/gold find and maybe some stats right now (I can't remember, mf/gf were the important ones). This is changing with paragon 2.0 where you will be able to allocate points (1 point per paragon level which will have no level cap) into stats of various types. Current cap is paragon 100. If you have 1x p50 and 1x p100 character when paragon 2.0 goes live, you'll have an account with the equivalent of all the combined xp or levels (that is still being worked) as your paragon levels will be converted to the new system.