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Title: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 20, 2013, 05:24:41 PM
Initial patch notes: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=600569

Too long to repost, even spoilered.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 20, 2013, 06:00:18 PM
Break it up into chunks you slacker!


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on February 20, 2013, 06:49:27 PM
Sorry about the formatting, I'm also lazy  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on February 20, 2013, 06:52:31 PM


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 20, 2013, 07:02:44 PM
Ah, I see where we're getting our extra button space from now.  They're nuking all those 'only affects weak target while CCed' long cooldowns that no one ever used anyway.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 20, 2013, 07:09:15 PM
No one but tanks doing their dailies.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 20, 2013, 07:15:45 PM
Note also this doesn't include changes to talents, you have to look at the tree itself on the PTS for now to see those changes (that's where the smash nerf is hiding for example.)


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 20, 2013, 07:28:21 PM
WTB Talent Tree's pst.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 20, 2013, 07:29:03 PM
No one but tanks doing their dailies.  :why_so_serious:

Pretty much. Losing Savage Kick is a massive hit to my soloability.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 20, 2013, 07:30:39 PM
I used the sniper version on my operative when I got bored and went behind cover.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 20, 2013, 07:32:03 PM
I don't think I'd call it a massive hit - it isn't like I'm going to start dying now that I can't Elbow Strike things - but it would slow me down a bit. Possibly the increased damage on Guardian Strike makes up for it, or something in the trees, though.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 20, 2013, 07:40:24 PM
My Vanguard is getting a new pewpew thing to fill the gap anyways.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on February 21, 2013, 12:30:23 AM
It's not just tanks that use 'em, I use them pretty often on my healers, so that's kind of a bummer (also tumult had a good animation, dammit). Still, could be worse. :P


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 21, 2013, 12:52:08 AM
Eh, I could never remember to use it on my tank Shadow.  I do like the animation but Spinning Kick uses the exact same animation, which is where I see it anyway.  I guess I could use Tumult right after Spinning Kick if I really wanted to twirl in place twice in a row.  :awesome_for_real:

I mean, I'm not all rah rah I'm glad their gone or anything.  I just won't be sad to see them go.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 01:20:31 AM
So there's also brand new armor sets (http://imgur.com/a/wJ9oA) in the game now, with new models and everything. Some of them are pretty (http://i.imgur.com/eZJ6Am6.jpg) cool (http://i.imgur.com/JoVLfHk.jpg). Others, not so much (http://i.imgur.com/wYgceVa.jpg)


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: PalmTrees on February 21, 2013, 01:32:55 AM
I'll miss those hit them while stunned powers. Used them pretty regularly.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ironwood on February 21, 2013, 03:44:23 AM
Yeah, what fucking gives with that ?  I love my Pommel Strike.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Lantyssa on February 21, 2013, 08:23:16 AM
I used the while-stunned powers all the time.  They were somewhat annoying to use given the short time-span, but they contributed to a lot of my damage.

Quote
Qyzen Fess: Flush Prey no longer deals damage or immobilizes the target, and it can no longer be used against a target in cover.
I had to laugh at this one.  Flush Prey cannot be used on targets in cover.  Uh...?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: DraconianOne on February 21, 2013, 11:09:38 AM
Skill Tree updates on SWTOR Spy (http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/)


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ironwood on February 21, 2013, 11:15:52 AM
That new immortal tree sucks ass.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 11:47:35 AM
You're out of your mind. That new Immortal tree is amazing. AoE absorb bubble on your group when you AoE taunt?  Lots of Retaliation cooldown reduction, talents that bring both Saber Ward and Invincible down to 2.5 minute cooldowns, 6% more damage reduction on Dark Blood, sweeping Fury's redesign providing better overall Rage management, better +defense on Blade Barricade...

I'm pretty excited, and with the much more frequent Retaliations, along with the Ravage damage bonus being moved to Immortal and getting a boost, it's looking like a lot of threat problems are being mitigated as well.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on February 21, 2013, 12:31:28 PM
Group-absorb on your group (excluding yourself) when you've just AoE taunted every mob to not hit them and hit you seems a bit pointless.  Otherwise, the tank tree seems more tanky (Soresu form no longer recharges your Rage bar when you get hit, though), and they've just removed the choice to cross-spec into that "immunity to stun when you force-jump" by making it Shien-form only.

They've also moved the 31-pt talent ability to 36-pts, instead of creating a new (better) 36-pt, and it's unclear at this point what they're doing with defense/shield secondary stats - the PTR forum seems to have some complaints that 33/50/50 defense stats aren't possible anymore, more like 17/19/19.  Maybe the gear that allows 33/50/50 only drops from the paid expansion planet or something.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: SnakeCharmer on February 21, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
Ah, I see where we're getting our extra button space from now.  They're nuking all those 'only affects weak target while CCed' long cooldowns that no one ever used anyway.

I used them religiously on my Sents/Maras and Sins/Shadows, especially on my Sents and Maras.  Instapoofing trash mobs with it cut my overall TTK for groups way down.

(Note I used it with AutoHotKey so I never actually had to worry about pushing the button).


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 12:36:34 PM
The AoE damage bubble is going to mostly be helpful in raids with phases that have a lot of raid-wide AoE damage going around, but it'll mostly be of help in PvP.

Soresu Form's rage-when-hit mechanic is being shifted to Endless Rage, a new passive.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 12:39:09 PM
Skill Tree updates on SWTOR Spy (http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/)


Excellent! Trying to parse the changes without the actual trees is a pita.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on February 21, 2013, 12:43:10 PM
it'll mostly be of help in PvP

Question is, will an Immortal spec be more popular for PVP, then.  The ability is pretty deep in the Immortal tree, and if PVP'ers spec the PVP tree then the "it'll be of help in PVP" parts will be useless.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 01:00:00 PM
I have no complaints with my Shield Tech tree, its basically the same as it was before but with a few more passive bonuses.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 01:00:46 PM
There is no such thing as "the PvP tree" for Juggernauts.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 01:12:04 PM
The people raging about "smash monkeys" on the official forums would disagree probably.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 01:14:37 PM
Well yeah, but that particular tree is also getting the dogshit nerfed out of it come 2.0. It's currently also flat-out better in PvE as well.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 21, 2013, 01:20:00 PM
Kinetic Combat seems almost completely unchanged after a quick look through.  3 new talents and a nice buff to Impact Control.  They rearranged a lot in Infiltration and Balance though, so that might change how to spend those last 10 points.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 01:43:06 PM
The only thing I don't like about the new Defense/Immortal tree is the two 2 point talents at the start of the tree, neither of which are very compelling after the change to Sundering Strike.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 02:06:00 PM
Do you mean Ravager and Enraged Sunder?

Enraged Sunder is really nice, since the current version gives Sunder +1 Rage, while the new one gives +2. With the way Sunder is by default in 2.0, it has 3x the cooldown for only 2.5x the Rage generation. For non-tanks, Sunder will be giving 7 Rage, while for tanks it'll be giving 6, after the Soresu form penalty. Combined with the tier one Vengeance talent Improved Sundering Assault, that's 6 Rage every 12 seconds, instead of 5 Rage every 15, which is better than we get right now.

As for Ravager, being in Immortal instead of Rage makes it easier for tanks to get, and the bonus damage will help out with threat quite a bit. It makes up for losing the free Force Screams after leaping, to me.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 02:14:56 PM
Focus (or Rage) isn't really something I run into a lot of trouble with. As for the other option, I barely even use Master Strike, as single target threat really isn't a big issue either, at least in the sorts of content I do. I pretty much only use it if I'm doing solo dailies to speed them up a little. Minor quibble though, I will take the extra focus one, probably.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 03:04:16 PM
I guess my perspective is colored by the fact that most of my play on my Juggernaut's done either in dailies or in operations, where I'm a main tank. Threat generation is a major problem with Jugg/Guardian tanks right now, and they're currently the only tank requires to put their taunts into a damage rotation just to keep up with threat.

The restored extra damage on Crushing Blow and the extra Ravage damage is going to be a huge huge help.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 03:11:39 PM
Well, it also looks like Guardian Strike/Crushing Blow damage has been buffed, and you should be able to hit Retaliation/Riposte more often (and for more damage as well I think?)

EDIT: Yeah the 15% extra crit on Riposte is new I think.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 03:12:43 PM
I really can't get a handle on how alacrity is going to change things now. Things that would never bother with it before are considering it now.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 03:17:19 PM
I do have to say that I'm concerned about how itemization is going to be affecting tank defenses though. I'm still patching the test server, but it looks like my Jugg's ~30/50/50 Defense/Shield/Absorb is going to be looking more like 17/43/35, while my HP is going to balloon into the mid-30k range.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 03:19:53 PM
Meh, they have to flub ratings for the extra 5 levels and new tiers of gear. I am not terribly concerned about that.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 03:23:44 PM
I do have to say that I'm concerned about how itemization is going to be affecting tank defenses though. I'm still patching the test server, but it looks like my Jugg's ~30/50/50 Defense/Shield/Absorb is going to be looking more like 17/43/35, while my HP is going to balloon into the mid-30k range.

This is in level 50 gear, at level 55? I would think that's pretty much to be expected.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 03:36:16 PM
Level 55 gear, at level 55.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 03:38:32 PM
But is it from an equivalent tier to what you wear now?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 21, 2013, 03:39:10 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. It's the new tier gear that's on the Fleet vendors.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 03:40:59 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. It's the new tier gear that's on the Fleet vendors.

What I mean is you're now wearing stuff that is presumably from the first dungeons or raid at a new level cap. It would make sense that your %s are more like what you had in the first tier of raiding at 50, not the last tier - the same thing that happens in any game that uses stat ratings when a new expansion hits.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on February 21, 2013, 04:59:49 PM
Quote
Personal shield generators are now effective against all attacks that deal Energy and Kinetic Damage, rather than just direct weapon attacks.

How does this change anything, exactly (as in I don't know what deals energy and kinetic damage)?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 05:08:44 PM
Quote
Personal shield generators are now effective against all attacks that deal Energy and Kinetic Damage, rather than just direct weapon attacks.

How does this change anything, exactly (as in I don't know what deals energy and kinetic damage)?

This is a pretty huge change. Right now your shield chance doesn't work against almost any special abilities from classes other than their basic attack. Now it will work against I think pretty much anything but force attacks.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 21, 2013, 05:10:25 PM
Surely they won't let tanks actually be tanky in PvP?  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 05:11:34 PM
There are four kinds of 'attacks' and four damage types.


The four kinds of attack are Ranged, Melee, Tech, Force. Ranged and Melee attacks can be dodged/shielded. Tech and Force attacks can not currently.

The four kinds of damage types are Kinetic, Energy, Internal, Elemental. Kinetic and Energy can be mitigated by armor. Elemental and Internal are only mitigated by baseline damage reductions (tank stances, talents that reduce damage by 1-3% etc).


The overwhelming majority of player special attacks (and alot of special NPC attacks) fall into the tech/force category. Currently on live, if something is Tech/Force attack, dodge/shield just don't work on it, the end.

Now on the PTS, if you have a Tech/Force attack that does Kinetic or Energy damage, it can be shielded. (Tool tips tell you which damage type each attack deals, and you can see if your attack is ranged/melee/tech/force by looking at your abilities tab).





Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on February 21, 2013, 05:50:33 PM
I was hoping that was the case.  :heart: I wish shadows were getting the aoe absorb but maybe that phase walk thing is cool too.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 05:51:58 PM
Phase walk is the one people are already crying about being broken in PVP.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 05:56:05 PM
It has a really big range, phase walk. 60 meters I think?



Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on February 21, 2013, 06:10:14 PM
Phase walk is the one people are already crying about being broken in PVP.  :why_so_serious:

So I finally picked a fotm? I usually find the most gimped class ever. I guess with 15 chars it was bound to happen.  :awesome_for_real:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 21, 2013, 06:48:24 PM
Phase walk is the one people are already crying about being broken in PVP.  :why_so_serious:

Of course people are crying about it.  The only thing people hate more than dying fast is when other people can escape them!  It's Warlock teleport on a melee class, so of course it's overpowered for something something reason!  :why_so_serious:

Speaking of which, I assume the teleport ignores line of sight and pathing?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 06:55:03 PM
No idea. The complaint I've seen is that it makes node guarding too easy. That may actually be true, but I don't really PVP so no skin off my back.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on February 21, 2013, 08:44:31 PM
But is it from an equivalent tier to what you wear now?

Yes, level 55 in equivalent tier gear with appropriate armoring/mod/enh installed, the 30/50/50 numbers are borked.  There are threads on the PTR forum mentioning it but they get drowned in "are you 55 in 55 gear? and is it equivalent tier?" comments.  I guess I'll just continue reading; there's bound to be more in-depth analysis from tank experts, and/or possible changes from EA, before it goes live.  It's way too early to worry at this point.

EDIT:  Phase Walk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8bedrKwQb8) looks more like a go-back-to-your-spot teleport.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 21, 2013, 09:31:46 PM
EDIT:  Phase Walk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8bedrKwQb8) looks more like a go-back-to-your-spot teleport.

Yeah, that's exactly how the Warlock teleport works in WoW iirc.

Edit: and that Sorcerer ability looks like the Mage Ice Block?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 21, 2013, 10:31:52 PM
If ice block was channeled.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on February 21, 2013, 10:48:30 PM
Is there any functional difference, though?  You couldn't move or cast with Ice Block up anyway.  Or is it possible to interrupt or use knockback to end the channel early?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 21, 2013, 11:11:47 PM
Can't channel mid air for an awesome action pose!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Zetor on February 22, 2013, 12:40:42 AM
Well, monks in WOW are a melee class and Transcendence is basically a more versatile Phase Walk (since it exchanges your position with the original position, so you can use it again for an escape later if you want), and assassins in GW1 / thieves in GW2 have plenty of shadowstep-type abilities that teleport back to your original location when (event) happens, so I don't think having it on a meleer is overpowered.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 22, 2013, 04:22:09 AM
As I understand it the complaint is that the range is so long that the shadow/assassin can run all over the place contributing to other fights and still pop back to hit someone capping a node, or whatever.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on February 22, 2013, 05:04:56 AM
If that's the complaint they just don't get it:  it's overpowered because it saves A TON of time when jumping from pipe to pipe to get holocrons.  :grin:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: PalmTrees on February 22, 2013, 10:04:45 AM
Meh, my madness spec sorc is gonna lose the chance to proc a second zap on shock. I really liked that double zap. They also moved the old 31 power, creeping horror, up to 36. So either I have to choose whether to lose crepping horror or some of my 3/7 picks from the other two trees. Whee, I get to lose abilities and then spend time leveling up to get them back!  :mob:

Need to figure out wth the new alacrity does to see if I want that chance to proc up to a whole extra 4% of it or go with damage reduction while stunned or whatever.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Shatter on February 22, 2013, 11:10:30 AM
My operative gets to roll...up to 12 meters...fuck u guys


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Reg on February 22, 2013, 12:14:07 PM
What's the point of getting new levels over 50 if all it does is restore powers that were taken away?  Is that supposed to be fun?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 22, 2013, 12:54:00 PM
Meh, my madness spec sorc is gonna lose the chance to proc a second zap on shock. I really liked that double zap. They also moved the old 31 power, creeping horror, up to 36. So either I have to choose whether to lose crepping horror or some of my 3/7 picks from the other two trees. Whee, I get to lose abilities and then spend time leveling up to get them back!  :mob:

Need to figure out wth the new alacrity does to see if I want that chance to proc up to a whole extra 4% of it or go with damage reduction while stunned or whatever.

Except you have 5 more points to spend as well, so no, you don't lose any of those other 10 points (other than perhaps temporarily). Also as best I can tell the double zap is still reachable as it is in the first tier of lightning now.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ironwood on February 22, 2013, 04:12:06 PM
Personally, I think it's a fucking cheat just to raise the same foul tasting cookie in the jar to a higher shelf.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 22, 2013, 05:53:05 PM
So, looking on the PTS, it looks like subscribers are going to be hit with a fairly restrictive commendations cap come 2.0. Black Hole and Daily comms are being combined into one (apparently Legacy-wide) currency... with a cap of 300. Not only that, but you're also limited to earning a max of 150 per week, across your Legacy.

I've got 700 daily comms and over 300 Black Hole comms on my tank alone, and I have to figure out what the hell I'm going to do with them before 2.0 hits.


Edit: Also, for some strange reason, Bioware decided to increase the cost of flying your ship from planet to planet by around 10x. Where it was once about 140 credits, it's now about 1500.

This applies to lowbies as well.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ironwood on February 22, 2013, 06:03:56 PM
The planet thing is fucking harsh.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 22, 2013, 06:06:49 PM
Yikes. I'm guessing that doesn't last long if it even makes it to live. That's high enough to actually cause you to get stuck somewhere.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 22, 2013, 07:40:44 PM
Also, all those individual planet commendations will be rolled into one universal Planetary Commendation system, which is fantastic. The problem?

Subscribers have a cap of 100 of them, with a 50 comm per week cap.

In one night of leveling a lowbie through Dromund Kaas, I made thirty.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on February 22, 2013, 08:24:28 PM
Yeah a planet with all the quests gives 30-40 planetary commendations, and can be done in 3-4 days (relatively casually).   The planets seem to alternate between offering a crapload of armor pieces and offering just a weapon, so I guess with a cap of 100 we can hold until the next planet to buy whatever we're missing.

There's also a 2 hour refund (even if bound) on NPC vendor stuff, so theoretically it IS possible to buy your orange pieces, do quite a few quests, and then sell them back and get your commendations back.  Just have to divide your playtime into 2-hr intervals.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on February 23, 2013, 01:26:30 AM
The comms-per-week cap on the leveling comms is fucking weird, especially since it's so low. Having to spend to keep under 100, that doesn't bug me at all, but capping the comm gain to 50 a week is just ... wat.

The 150/week for the grown up comms doesn't bother me as much, for whatever reason.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: PalmTrees on February 23, 2013, 07:25:17 AM
Yeah, the caps are way too low for how much you'll earn. But I suppose it'll get me to spend mine. I have all the crafting skills so I just pretty much make all my own stuff. So I haven't been spending comms on my last few alts, just saving them for a rainy day.

I just don't understand why there have to be caps. It's purely a npc currency with bind on pickup items.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on February 23, 2013, 08:28:07 AM
Maybe they wanted to bring subscribers in line with preferreds and frees, who are limited to 20 per week right now.  Their comparison chart (http://www.swtor.com/free/features) says "higher number of commendations," not "unlimited."


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on February 23, 2013, 01:46:14 PM
With how fast you earn comms at low levels, I'd say the non-subs should be 50/week, subs something higher. But honestly, I'd remove the fucking cap from everyone, it's a stupid limitation.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on February 23, 2013, 01:49:41 PM
It's all legacy wide now though? Like one of my current issues with planetary comms is I'll often be like, 1 or 2 short of an item I want to buy, but I've finished the planet and can't be assed to find a heroic to repeat or whatever.

If I have a larger pool of comms to draw from per character now, I'm going to be far more likely to spend them now.


The earning cap is still weird though.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on February 23, 2013, 02:07:05 PM
The legacy-wide is a fine change, the 100 comms able to be held cap doesn't bother me, it's the earning cap that's way too fucking low. Unless they're going to rejigger how many comms you can earn through quests (and maybe make the non-comm rewards worth a shit to take), it is just ... way too low. A weekly cap should not be something I could earn in one planet worth of quests.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 24, 2013, 05:40:17 AM
Yeah it just seems to discourage leveling too many alts too fast, which I can't understand why you'd want to do.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on February 26, 2013, 05:45:29 PM

Something not mentioned here (or at least I didn't see it mentioned) were new pve achievements like killing 100+ enemies with one companion, killing bosses in a FP, completing said FP, etc.

Can someone explain to me what they are doing with pvp, specifically with expertise sub 55? I've been told that pvp will be split into 3 tiers: 1 - 29ish, 30 54, then 55. That looked like an incredibly bad idea but I was told that 30s would be able to compete with those 50+. I don't see how that could possibly be true unless they somehow nerf expertise.

If 30  54 pvp is as awful as I think it would be, I hope they split it to 30 49 and 50 54.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on February 26, 2013, 06:00:15 PM

Something not mentioned here (or at least I didn't see it mentioned) were new pve achievements like killing 100+ enemies with one companion, killing bosses in a FP, completing said FP, etc.

Can someone explain to me what they are doing with pvp, specifically with expertise sub 55? I've been told that pvp will be split into 3 tiers: 1 - 29ish, 30 54, then 55. That looked like an incredibly bad idea but I was told that 30s would be able to compete with those 50+. I don't see how that could possibly be true unless they somehow nerf expertise.

If 30  54 pvp is as awful as I think it would be, I hope they split it to 30 49 and 50 54.

Apparently the new bolster system will automagically fix everything. Everyone will get a heap of expertise and stats to bring them up to some arbitrary level based on a 'recruit' set of gear - and by lvl 30, people should have enough abilities for at least a basic rotation.

I'm not convinced, but it's hard to tell - bolster is a buggy mess on the PTS right now, behemoths with 800k hp and 20k+ stats are running around warzones one-shotting everyone who isn't 'testing' the bug. They've said they don't want to split the tiers down further as they'd run out of people to populate them.

Edit:
Quote from: RobHinkle
Hey gang, let me see if I can bring some clarity to the situation.  We do indeed have a new level of "Recruit" that we are bolstering towards, that is based on the new 55 gear.  We believe that this bolster level will allow players to complete with any possible gear combination in the 30 - 54 bracket.  Obviously we've had a few bumps in the road on PTS regarding current bolster, but we should be getting that fixed up soon (tm), and everyone can get back to the business of PvP.

Thanks for everyone's feedback, not just on this but on everything, it is really helping us make a better game.

Quote from: RobHinkle
Valid feedback, and something we continue to debate internally.  When we talk about separating the playing population by hard lines, there are always 2 main concerns that often compete directly against each other:  A)Can the players inside that bracket reasonably compete against each other, and B)Are there enough players in the bracket to keep wait times reasonably small.

We have initially chosen 30 as our new break point because that is the level in which players start having complete combat rotations (often because they've gotten a really important ability from a skill tree) and our data of who actually queues into Warzones has shown that we've got a good pool on each side of that break.  We continue to analyze who is playing, however, so certainly if we ever feel like a particular PvP bracket is being starved we should make changes to it.  Unfortunately, that's what we believe would happen with a 50 - 54 bracket.  It might be populated initially, but would quickly become empty as players hit 55 and for everyone following the initial surge of levelers there would significantly increased wait times to get into PvP.

A number of players are concerned, reasonably I think, about the power differential between a fresh level 30 player and a current 50 player in augmented EWH gear being inside the same bracket.  Our new bolster system should make those players reasonably competitive statistically, both with compensation for the lower items as well as some compensation for having fewer skill points/abilities (if you are lower level).  Once we get this bolster bug fixed up, everyone should be able to see the kind of stats you are getting from the bolster and should give everyone a better basis for discussion.[/color]



Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on February 26, 2013, 06:00:43 PM
Sub-55 (and at 55 without PvP-specific gear), the Bolster system is supposed to essentially convert your gear's stats to PvP gear quality, giving you a chunk of expertise and so on to match. High-end PvE gear is supposed to also convert pretty well to PvP gear with this system.

If their system works out (and so far it isn't; the new Bolster mechanics on test are a clusterfuck and nothing works right), the new system obviates the need for Recruit gear at all tiers, since it just turns your PvE gear into Recruit. High-end min/maxed PvP gear will still be better, but it's supposed to not have nearly as large a gap as before.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on February 26, 2013, 06:18:56 PM
So now 30 54 pvp is the new 50 pvp, with the exception that new players no longer have access to WH and EWH gear? What could go wrong?  :why_so_serious:

eta:

Quote
A number of players are concerned, reasonably I think, about the power differential between a fresh level 30 player and a current 50 player in augmented EWH gear being inside the same bracket.  Our new bolster system should make those players reasonably competitive statistically, both with compensation for the lower items as well as some compensation for having fewer skill points/abilities (if you are lower level).  Once we get this bolster bug fixed up, everyone should be able to see the kind of stats you are getting from the bolster and should give everyone a better basis for discussion.

Ok, that's better than my initial understanding (recruit vs EWH) but whatevs. I hope they get this to work properly. Of course it now means I screwed myself by buying more char slots to play sub 50 pvp but if it lets me play my old toons (I sold my recruit gear on most of them, figuring I'd hate pvp lulz) then that's better overall.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 26, 2013, 07:13:50 PM
So now 30 54 pvp is the new 50 pvp, with the exception that new players no longer have access to WH and EWH gear? What could go wrong?  :why_so_serious:

Not really, 55 is the new 50 PVP. 30-54 is going to just be 1-49 with the people who have full rotations split off into their own bracket. Everyone should have the exact same level of expertise in 30-54 once they get it working right.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on February 26, 2013, 09:05:37 PM
So now 30 54 pvp is the new 50 pvp, with the exception that new players no longer have access to WH and EWH gear? What could go wrong?  :why_so_serious:

Not really, 55 is the new 50 PVP. 30-54 is going to just be 1-49 with the people who have full rotations split off into their own bracket. Everyone should have the exact same level of expertise in 30-54 once they get it working right.

What I was objecting to was bolster only improving a char to recruit gear level, which would suck if you're going up against people in EWH, but BioWare claims that they have that sorted out so we'll see.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: SnakeCharmer on February 28, 2013, 11:11:48 AM
Wouldn't it be so much easier to remove any sort of expertise and give everyone 30-54 the same invisible gear mods?   What I mean is, make the gear the players are weaing not matter at all.  PvP naked if you want to.  Your stats will be the same as the guy wearing full gear. 

Maybe the fact their itemization is complete shit, but really?  Why make it more complicated than it needs to be (other than lolBioware)


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on February 28, 2013, 12:30:34 PM
Wouldn't it be so much easier to remove any sort of expertise and give everyone 30-54 the same invisible gear mods?   What I mean is, make the gear the players are weaing not matter at all.  PvP naked if you want to.  Your stats will be the same as the guy wearing full gear. 

Maybe the fact their itemization is complete shit, but really?  Why make it more complicated than it needs to be (other than lolBioware)

Because then that totally takes away all your choice as far as a balance between stats like alacrity, crit, etc., which matters more now that they're changing alacrity to not be terrible.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on March 01, 2013, 09:15:19 AM
What I mean is, make the gear the players are weaing not matter at all.  PvP naked if you want to.  Your stats will be the same as the guy wearing full gear. 

Well, they need an incentive for the PVP guy to grind PVP commendations and spend commendations and cartel coins on PVP gear.

So, if you're under-geared (or geared for PVE), they level up your gear to be equal to the entry-level PVP gear.  If you grind PVP and get better gear than entry-level, you will stomp everybody else (they don't bring your gear down to be equal to everyone else).  That way, a newbie will have a (theoretical) chance in a PVP fight, but the veterans who put in the time will still see gear progression.

The expertise stat is there so you can get an idea of where you are.  It would probably suck if it were an invisible stat.  People don't like invisible stats that affect their performance.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on March 01, 2013, 12:23:46 PM
Well, he's talking about 30-54, though, and the only reason there will be any expertise gear there is stuff hanging around from before 2.0; I don't think you'll be able to buy any gear with expertise below cap after the patch (but maybe I'm mistaken.) So, they have to even out the expertise in that bracket just to level the playing field against people who have gear that is unobtainable.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on March 01, 2013, 01:07:46 PM

While getting WH gear it didn't seem like my shadow was improving all that much, but it's like night and day with respect to my sentinel, who I've never pvp'd with before so only had recruit gear. I doubt I did more damage with the sent than I did with my shadow.  Unless BioWare comes through with their promises I won't pvp with any of my other 50s. I had hoped to make new chars just to pvp with but if 30 54 pvp is crap then there's no point in that either.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on March 01, 2013, 01:20:17 PM
I don't see any particular reason it will be much different than 1-49 now.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Zetor on March 01, 2013, 01:29:18 PM
Other than expertise (if it does in fact get equalized), how does the bolster system deal with level 50s in fully tricked out EWH gear vs random schmoe in level 30 greens?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on March 01, 2013, 01:52:12 PM
Other than expertise (if it does in fact get equalized), how does the bolster system deal with level 50s in fully tricked out EWH gear vs random schmoe in level 30 greens?

It sounds like it just bolsters everyone to be about the same, if you're under 55, unless I'm misunderstanding something.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on March 01, 2013, 07:20:04 PM
Full tricked out EWH:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/704154/Valor/EWH20.jpg

Nude(ish):

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/704154/Valor/naked20.jpg

 :grin:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on March 01, 2013, 09:03:19 PM
I don't get it. Does bolster work at 55 or is this some sort of bug?

eta: if bolster works like this then everything should be fine. I'm just upset that I wasted 200k or so on char slots that I no longer need.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on March 01, 2013, 09:24:35 PM
From my understanding, those are both shots of the same level 55 Commando in a Warzone (Voidstar, it looks like).

In the first shot, he's in full optimized Elite War Hero PvP gear. In the second shot, he is essentially naked, bar his cannon and his power generator, but has better stats than with his optimized top-end level 50 PvP stuff.

Bolster is always in effect at all levels, but at 55 it serves to essentially turn everyone's equipped gear into "recruit" gear, giving the same baseline Expertise and so on, with actual level 55 PvP gear providing better stats over that baseline.

I guess the point was mostly to showcase that the base "recruit" level at 55 is equivalent to Elite War Hero at 50.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on March 01, 2013, 11:04:40 PM

That makes sense. I look forward to only being  half a set behind the big boys  :awesome_for_real:

So does that mean that bolster is on right now for 50 pvp? Perhaps I shouldn't wear my recruit gear on my other alts if I do decide to play them.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on March 01, 2013, 11:25:50 PM
I don't think there's any bolster at cap until 2.0 hits.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on March 02, 2013, 12:09:23 AM
played my sniper tonight in tionese gear and had bolster buff; never saw that before.  didn't check my expertise tho. I'm going to re queue and check.


yeah it doesn't add expertise; says it boosts to 49 tho lulz.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on March 02, 2013, 01:34:04 AM
Yes, sorry for not explaining the post a little better (there screenshots are of my PTS commando) - there's a small bug with bolster at 55 in that going naked can effectively give you more stats than with pre 2.0 sets in PvP. The idea is that the *minimum* bolster should do for you is give you a level 55 'recruit' set of stats, but its not applying if you actually wear certain equipment.

So for now, go naked, or go well geared.  :grin:

I'm sure that'll be fixed in the next build.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on March 06, 2013, 02:54:29 AM
Oh hey, guess which crafters are worthless again! If you answered "Artifice and Cybertech", you win the no-prize!

Quote
Hi all, just thought I would clarify some things.

At this time it is our intention that the best-in-slot PvE gear and Mods available are not reverse engineerable for schematics and not craftable at this time. Our goal is when new levels of PvE gear are introduced, the older gear and mods will then become reverse engineerable for schematics.

For the release of "Rise of the Hutt Cartel" Arkanian level gear and mods are the best craftable equipment in the game. Underworld level gear and mods will eventually be craftable when a new tier of equipment is released.

As a bonus, the lower-tier schematics you do manage to learn at the new super-duper halved  reverse-engineering rate require purple crafting materials to make, which can only be obtained by... reverse-engineering high-end mods and armorings at a sub-100% drop rate.

So once again Biochem becomes the de facto best tradeskill in the game, followed only a little behind by the various augment crafters.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: ajax34i on March 06, 2013, 06:45:45 AM
oops wrong thread


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: eldaec on March 06, 2013, 10:57:44 AM
They need to give everyone a fucking consumable and be done with this shit.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fabricated on March 07, 2013, 07:37:34 AM
Wow, I'm kinda dumb, I didn't realize that even the account-wide unlocks are tradable/sellable on the AH. I bought unify colors for about 200,000 credits, which is a pittance really.

...then I noticed I can't get any of the money I had in my "escrow account" out, even just to fill myself back up to the 350k limit. :oh_i_see:

I suppose it's not too bad though; I mean, I can just play the game, do dailies, fuck around, and build up a bunch of credits. Then when some nice content patch comes out or event starts I can spend $15 for a month sub and have all the bells & whistles for a bit while permanently buying them for credits before it runs out.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Phred on March 15, 2013, 02:48:40 AM

...then I noticed I can't get any of the money I had in my "escrow account" out, even just to fill myself back up to the 350k limit. :oh_i_see:


So how does escrow work then?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Zetor on March 15, 2013, 03:38:33 AM

...then I noticed I can't get any of the money I had in my "escrow account" out, even just to fill myself back up to the 350k limit. :oh_i_see:


So how does escrow work then?
It's locked away until you subscribe, then you can use the money again... so yeah, it's just another way to get people to occasionally resub for a month if they want to actually buy stuff.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fabricated on March 15, 2013, 08:15:59 AM
It's annoying but fine I guess considering if the escrow account wasn't there, you could literally just grind and do smalltime AH baron stuff with mats until you had enough credits to buy damn near all of the major account features.

I bought unify colors, so if I can work up a couple mill more creds and buy an account-wide artifact, head slot, and tradeskill unlock I'd be pretty much 100% satisfied with never subbing or paying real $ for anything that wasn't real content.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on March 15, 2013, 01:44:47 PM
It's also nice for subscribers, in a way, because people put up shit like extra character slots for slightly less than a non-subscriber could possibly have, which is pretty inexpensive for a subscriber. :P


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on April 07, 2013, 02:01:57 PM
Anyone know if they upped the planetary comms? Should i log on and spend the ones I have?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 07, 2013, 03:44:23 PM
Not only did they not up the amount of planetary comms, they actually halved the cap, from 100 when 2.0 first hit Test to a cap of 50. However, they removed the weekly earning limit, which makes it okay I guess.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on April 07, 2013, 11:44:06 PM
I think I like that pretty well. It keeps you from wanting to just sit on them until the end, but doesn't punish you for playing too much.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 08, 2013, 02:52:11 AM
No cap on earning pleases me, lowering the cap on how much you can hold is ... okay, I think, although 50 is pretty low. We'll see how I feel after it goes into practice.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Lantyssa on April 08, 2013, 08:20:23 AM
Not ideal, but it's a better implementation.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Raguel on April 08, 2013, 10:38:40 AM
I just don't understand the need for limits. How does this make the game more fun?

Anyway I'm just bitching cuz I'm bummed about class stories.  :heartbreak: Playing a ton of Tropico 4 and installing Wushu atm heh.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 08, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
I just don't understand the need for limits. How does this make the game more fun?

It doesn't. It's there for one reason, and this dude from the official forums on a topic about the new hella-restrictive caps across the board for subscribers says it well:

Quote
The caps are there for one reason only: To enforce a minimum calendar day commitment (i.e. subscription dollar spend) that you have to make in order to fully gear one character to level X.

If you read the recent interview on massively about how F2P Saved SWTOR, you'll see that Bioware's recurring nightmare with this game is having people blow through content they thought would last for months in just weeks or days. This is exactly what happened, according to James Ohlen: "Within four and five weeks, we suddenly had close to a half a million people at the endgame." They are now scared that the expansion they spent six months making will be "done" in a day or two by the same people who got to endgame in a month after launch. And they only way they can see to put the brakes on that is to choke people down to a snail's pace with a weekly throttle on the grinding.

The only problem is, it's not going to slow anyone down that is truly devoted to grinding 24x7. It will piss them off, but it won't stop them. It will just force people who play 24x7 to roll lots of alts in order to keep grinding . . . and given the obvious plague of altaholism that this game already suffers from, that's not all that surprising. If they truly want to stop people progressing at all except on their fixed time frame, then they will have to finally come to grips with and disable legacy mod smuggling. If a stealth patch mysteriously breaks the ability to trade or mail Bound to Legacy gear with mods inserted (while leaving you free to shuttle the gear around as long as it is empty), then you'll understand why.

For the same reasons, it won't actually "balance" anything you think it will, because people who play all day long will still have the ability to pile up loads of comms; they just need more toons to do it.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on April 08, 2013, 02:41:36 PM
I thought comms are going to be legacy-wide?  Which would pretty much invalidate that guy's whole rant.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 08, 2013, 02:58:33 PM
Comms are not legacy-wide.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on April 08, 2013, 03:35:44 PM
I see the low cap as good. It means you actually want to spend your comms instead of just hoarding them. That guy's rant makes no sense in the context of no weekly limit.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 08, 2013, 03:54:47 PM
Quote
. . . and given the obvious plague of altaholism that this game already suffers from, that's not all that surprising.

PLAGUE

Sorry, I was too busy being amused by that to post anything more interesting.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 08, 2013, 04:47:19 PM
I see the low cap as good. It means you actually want to spend your comms instead of just hoarding them. That guy's rant makes no sense in the context of no weekly limit.

The only comm type without a weekly limit are the Planetary ones. Every other type does, and those are what he was referring to.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 09, 2013, 04:01:42 AM
Aw yiss, guess who has his laugh back.

They made it more sensible, now you just laugh whenever you go from zero to one. I missed you, random chuckle.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 09, 2013, 08:41:59 AM
So 2.0 is live, and I guess they didn't have time to fix the bolster bug.

At level 50 right now, the best PvP gear is no gear at all. Naked warzones all round.

Edit: Oh, and half the people in my friends list are already lvl 55  :grin:

Spoke to one, who told me it took him about 6.5 hours to finish up the main storyline of Makeb with a few sidequests, which was enough to max him out.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 09, 2013, 04:56:43 PM
Some of my abilities have different icons, WORST PATCH EVER!  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 09, 2013, 05:37:53 PM
So I started out this morning with 1200 cartel coins on my account. Today, after flipping through all my alts, I now have 1700 through achievements.

Thanks, Obama!


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: kildorn on April 09, 2013, 07:33:12 PM
So I started out this morning with 1200 cartel coins on my account. Today, after flipping through all my alts, I now have 1700 through achievements.

Thanks, Obama!

RAMPANT INFLATION!


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Tannhauser on April 09, 2013, 08:59:32 PM
Played about three hours of the xpac tonite and came away with a favorable impression.  The mission is interesting, the gameplay is fun and I like the new planet.  Had a a couple of blues and a purple drop.  So that was nice.  The gay-bashing got tiresome on general chat and other, more general, derp ensued.  My ignore button was overheating.

Not too many other negatives to report at this time.  I was entertained for three hours and look forward to more playing. 


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Draegan on April 10, 2013, 09:47:27 AM
I logged on last night for the first time in over a year and I had 6500 cartel coins. Bought some legacy unlocking packs.

Good times.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on April 10, 2013, 01:32:59 PM
From what I've seen so far they did a very good job with Makeb. I'd like more companion content but I understand why it isn't there. It's a pleasant surprise that they have area banter at least.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 10, 2013, 03:50:41 PM
The gay-bashing got tiresome on general chat and other, more general, derp ensued.  My ignore button was overheating.

There was some "bawwww, I don't wanna flirt with the DUDE" whining in general last night, which was so dumb as to give me a headache. There was also some fussing that the REPUBLIC gets HOT LESBIANS but the EMPIRE is stuck with an icky gay man. Fucking idiots.

Speaking of the Empire guy, I am amused that the character of mine that actually would work best with him as a romance is my lady sith warrior. :P


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 10, 2013, 03:56:13 PM
Yeah, my overall impression with the Makeb PvE content is positive. I like that the big planet is split into ... episodes? With regards the storyline content. Lots of bitesized chunks so you can pick it up and put it down.

The PvP is a bit of a trainwreck, at least gearing wise, but they've acknowledged a bug or two with the bolster system (heh), so we'll see how it pans out.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Evildrider on April 10, 2013, 04:36:39 PM
The saving grace for them is that at least 55 PvP isn't borked.  Most of the people bitching will hit 55 and forget about the bolster issue til they fix it.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 10, 2013, 05:02:26 PM
Yeah, I think the WH/EWH gear is still relatively borked at 55, but it's completely obselete then anyway. I recall partisan and conqueror gear being absolutely fine as far as bolstering goes on the PTS.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 10, 2013, 05:10:14 PM
How much of it is an actual broken system and how much of it is just people who were used to having like 10 effective levels of gear over the plebs suddenly having to play well again?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Zetor on April 10, 2013, 11:54:13 PM
Honestly, I always thought that SWTOR max-level pvp was pretty bad... even compared to something like WOW. Removing all gear could only be an improvement.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 11, 2013, 03:52:01 AM
How much of it is an actual broken system and how much of it is just people who were used to having like 10 effective levels of gear over the plebs suddenly having to play well again?

It's broken in that removing certain pieces of armor (so that you're wearing nothing in the slot) actually makes your stats go up. Not all slots though, and it's somewhat dependent on how the stat budget for particular armor pieces was weighted. I've found removing my implants, belt, bracers, chest and helm nets me a DPS increase.

As I said though, its been acknowledged as a bug, so we'll see.

As for suddenly having to play well again - the opposite is the case at least for me. The expansion has brought a lot of people into the warzones who haven't the faintest clue, even with relatively equal gear. Its like taking candy from a baby. Or a whole bunch of babies.  :grin:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 11, 2013, 04:02:48 AM
As for suddenly having to play well again - the opposite is the case at least for me. The expansion has brought a lot of people into the warzones who haven't the faintest clue, even with relatively equal gear. Its like taking candy from a baby. Or a whole bunch of babies.  :grin:

Ooh, I should go back into the BGs with my scoundrel again then, I had fallen out of the habit. But now there's achievements! And I am so close to one!


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 11, 2013, 04:15:11 AM
I am a complete sucker for the achievements in warzones, I have to admit. Each warzone has its own set of them. :grin:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fabricated on April 11, 2013, 06:54:58 AM
I was hoping I'd have all of these free cartel coins when I logged in and I only ended up getting a couple hundred more. Also I got gypped; I didn't get achievements for clearing EV and Karagga's Palace on all 3 difficulties in both 8 and 16 man, and Explosive Conflict on both 8/16 man on Story and Hardmode. Booooo.

I might check out the expansion when I have time.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 11, 2013, 11:51:04 AM
I wish Sunday would finally get here so people in my guild can stop asking me why I'm not 51 yet. Three days before the expansion technically launches and most of my guild's not only already 55, but also racing like mad to get raid-geared ASAP.

Which, of course, means that come Sunday, I have about two days to not only get to 55, but also get geared from heroics before raids begin.  :ye_gods:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on April 11, 2013, 12:53:30 PM
Crazy people! The only thing I've maxed out so far is gathering/mission skills, and not nearly on everyone yet.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 11, 2013, 02:00:46 PM
I'm taking the ride to 55 slowly. I've done the main Makeb storyline, and am at 54 now, but want to just do warzones for the rest so that I get as close to capped comms as possible. WZs at 55 aren't popping much yet from what I hear, and when they do start, it'll be pretty brutal once people start wearing conqueror with the new augments.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 11, 2013, 03:15:40 PM
I'm taking it slow-ish myself, my highest is my manquisitor at 52. He got the macrobinocular and whatevertheotherthingiscalled stuff and I haven't felt like dealing with those yet. :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 11, 2013, 03:24:03 PM
You're just spreading your leveling out across the alts. I'm been sticking to my Trooper and he's 54 already and I seriously doubt I have more playtime then you  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 11, 2013, 03:40:30 PM
That counts as taking it slow.  :oh_i_see:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Tannhauser on April 11, 2013, 04:42:09 PM
I just dinged 51 you bastards.  Early verdict on the Scoundrel scrapper spec.  It sucks!  And achievements?  What the fuck?  Jesus Bioware...I must do them.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 11, 2013, 04:59:02 PM
ahahahahahahahaha I am unkillable as my scoundrel in PvP BRING IT ON SCRUBS


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 11, 2013, 05:04:16 PM
I just dinged 51 you bastards.  Early verdict on the Scoundrel scrapper spec.  It sucks!  And achievements?  What the fuck?  Jesus Bioware...I must do them.

The achievement system is awful. There's nothing creative in them, it's just: "Kill ten things. Now kill fifty of the things. Now kill a hundred of the things," or "Kill a boss. Now kill it twenty-five more times." Even a lot of blasé titles are locked behind enormously grindy meta-achievements.

I mean there's an achievement (required for another meta-achievement) for killing 1,000 enemy players on Alderaan. Not the warzone, the fucking planet.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 11, 2013, 06:32:39 PM
Scoundrel and Operative melee DPS are awesome fun in PvP. One big blaze of glory from the moment you destealth until you inevitably get dotted and put down. People die. Fast.

ahahahahahahahaha I am unkillable as my scoundrel in PvP BRING IT ON SCRUBS

- is why my wife laughs at me whenever I play mine. Because the class just screams at you to shout things like this when you're PvPing.  :drill:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 11, 2013, 06:44:31 PM
I'm not DPS scoundrel, I'm a healer. Which makes me immortal.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 11, 2013, 09:20:31 PM
There are roughly 10 trillion follow up quests and dailies after you finish the main storyline.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Zetor on April 11, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
There are roughly 10 trillion follow up quests and dailies after you finish the main storyline.
What's the ratio of daily-to-non-daily quests in those 10 trillion?


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 12, 2013, 12:15:03 AM
Dunno exactly, I saw like 10 daily quests on one terminal, and half a dozen [STAGE 1] quests on another terminal.


I went to have pizza instead of dealing with either.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: PalmTrees on April 12, 2013, 03:13:27 AM
I've gotten to 54 with my sorc. I'd be 55 already if I hadn't spent time gathering/crafting. So far Makeb's been ok. Had some same sex flirt options with the binocular and bot quest ladies. Only on the first step of those quests, so I don't know if the romance progresses or it's just a one-off line.

I don't like how the grade 9 nodes give either metal or compound instead of both.

Spent some time trying to finish all the space achievements only to find like half of the "do this in the mission" type are bugged.

Dislike how they redid the skill trees. After i redid my points my sorc and alll my other alts will just be leveling to get back stuff they lost in their secondary trees. The new stuff my madness spec sorc got: dmg proc, alacrity proc are meh. Damn alacrity proc puts this electric scarf/bola thing around my neck. Looks dumb.They moved the double zap on shock out of the madness line, so I don't have points for it now :(

New rating scalings means my crit chance/crit multiplier have lost 5-9% each. Same with Khem's defense and absorption. So I'll be leveling and gearing just to get back to my starting point. Hmm, just like the skill tree.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Phred on April 12, 2013, 12:39:50 PM

New rating scalings means my crit chance/crit multiplier have lost 5-9% each. Same with Khem's defense and absorption. So I'll be leveling and gearing just to get back to my starting point. Hmm, just like the skill tree.

So they did exactly like Blizzard does with WoW. Big shocker.



Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on April 12, 2013, 12:56:02 PM
Which makes sense. The only goofy thing I find is moving the capstone things in the tree up 5 levels, the gear rating thing has been in the game from day 1 so that shouldn't surprise anyone.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: koro on April 14, 2013, 12:45:23 PM
So I noticed that the multiplayer conversation option pops up if you're grouped when you interact with your holocom on your ship to begin Makeb. So naturally I tried the obvious: I went into my Merc's duo partner's ship and watched her Agent's Makeb intro. After that, I went back onto my ship and clicked the holocom...

...and nothing. Viewing someone else's intro on their ship skips your own. So now I'll never be able to see my Merc's Makeb intro.

Take this as a warning.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ginaz on April 15, 2013, 03:25:33 PM
I think I might have killed off my man crush inadvertently when I chose to sacrifice his team during one the quests.  Fuck. :heartbreak:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 15, 2013, 03:41:36 PM
You fool! You Foolish Fool!


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Sjofn on April 15, 2013, 04:38:37 PM
I think I might have killed off my man crush inadvertently when I chose to sacrifice his team during one the quests.  Fuck. :heartbreak:



Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 16, 2013, 03:32:23 AM
I took my wee Gunslinger into pvp for some shits and giggles.


Either:

A) Sharpshooter got really buffed
B) Bolster is extra broken for Sharpshooter
C) Both


I am like, downing most everything in 3 or 4 attacks, and half those attacks are instant.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Nevermore on April 16, 2013, 07:07:53 AM
Sharpshooter was always really powerful in the lower level PvP.  Mine tore things up, but then got really sad in level 50 PvP.  Seems pretty buffed in 2.0 though, so maybe high level PvP won't be so bad anymore.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 16, 2013, 01:51:47 PM
Gunslinger/Snipers are really REAAAAAALLY powerful for PvP in 2.0.

Sharpshooter has absolutely frightening burst potential with near unlimited energy, and dirty fighting can easily pass a million damage done without breaking a sweat if you're content spamming shrap bombs.

One of the major changes with bolster however is that you start seeing your full damage output potential much much earlier in the levels whereas before there was a big leap when you hit 50 and got geared up. It is not unheard of  now to see level 35s doing 700k damage in a long warzone.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 16, 2013, 02:15:52 PM
So the naked bolster bug was fixed today (ie. if you don't have anything in a slot, then bolster doesn't kick in and give you superstats for it).

Took the community all of a few hours to figure out that you can still make it work with empty shells and/or just removing mods instead.  :why_so_serious:

Quote from: SomeRandomForumPoster
Just confirmed this. I put my EWH gear on and took out the armorings in the head, chest, legs and feet and main stat was 300 higher, bonus healing was 350 higher and health was almost 500 higher then my full set of partisan gear. Expertise was 1920. Sad.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 16, 2013, 04:11:15 PM
I'm not even using any bolster naked bugs and my aimed shot is critting for 8-9k. It's kinda nuts.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Ingmar on April 16, 2013, 06:45:00 PM
I want to say the naked bolster thing is really only a problem at 55.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Jherad on April 17, 2013, 07:56:04 PM
I want to say the naked bolster thing is really only a problem at 55.

Yeah I agree. I'm sure it's sort of exploitable before then, but the big differences are cropping up at level cap:

Quote from: EricMusco;6171888
The second issue we want to address is concerns over the balance between level 55 PvE and PvP gear. We have seen some reports from players around the forums and in this thread that they are seeing players wearing Underworld or Arkanian gear having higher stats under Bolster than people wearing Partisan or Conqueror.

After some investigation, it appears that this is true, but it is not intended. Although we always want to keep the PvP environment competitive even for players not wearing full PvP sets, Partisan and Conqueror should be performing better in Warzones than their PvE counterparts. We will be deploying a fix for this in 2.0.1 which will be coming out on Tuesday.

I know there is still a bit of confusion around the Bolster system, how it affects stats and Expertise and I am working on getting some more information on it. Sometime after 2.0.1 I am going to work with the combat team on getting a “mathy” post explaining a bit about Bolster and how it works which will hopefully work to clear up some confusion. As you can imagine, it is a pretty complex system.

I hope that alleviates some of your concerns with the issue of PvE v PvP gearing and thank you all for your feedback.

-eric


Another bolster 'fix' on Tuesday then.


Title: Re: 2.0 on PTS
Post by: Fordel on April 18, 2013, 03:02:10 AM
I took my Vanguard tank into 55 warzones tonight. I... It was not a good time.

I couldn't really defend anyone, I couldn't really damage anyone and I wasn't really all that survivable. I was a boat anchor to every team I was on.


After a dozen or so games, I finally gave up and just played my lolsmash JK in the lower bracket and dominated every game I was in. It was ALL SKILL amirite  :why_so_serious: