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Title: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 17, 2011, 12:21:33 PM
Ok, so I was thinking about synergies and came up with an interesting team build...was hoping for viability and some theory crafting.

Here are the champs that have abilities to lower armor:

jarvan    - 10 - 26%

corki - 10 per second

DPS nasus - 20-40 AOE

Rammus - 10-30 for 1-3 seconds (by taunt level)

Renekton - 15-25% for 4 sec

Urgot - 12-20% for 5 sec

Wukong - 30% for 3 sec

Trundle - 25% and another 25% over 6 sec

MORE

 Evelynn's  Ravage reduces its target armor by 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26 for 5 seconds.

 Kog'Maw's  Caustic Spittle reduces the target's armor by 5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 for 4 seconds.

 Karthus's  Wall of Pain reduces the armor of all enemies that walk through the wall by 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 for 5 seconds.

 Taric's  Shatter reduces the armor of all enemies hit by its activation damge by 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 for 4 seconds.



Team 1

Corki - Carry
Rammus - Tank / initiator
Urgot   - Killer - late game Off tank/initiator
Trundle - Jungler
Wu-kong - DPS / initiation


Team 2

Corki - Carry
Rammus - Tank / initiator
Nasus - Tanky DPS
Renekton - DPS
Trundle - Jungle


Team 3
Corki - 50
Kog'Maw - 25
Taric - 30
Rammus - 30
Nasus   - 40

(with a rammus taunt this is quite possible)

Starks for 20 . Black cleaver for 45






Or would you add a DPS without the armor reducing ability? Would you add support? A DPS poke like trist/Cait?

Would make you it a very tanky team that uses Urgot/ult and rammus taunt to pull in and armor reduce rape them?

You can make a champ go negative armor, percentage abilities and items are worse in this setup for that reason. Black Cleaver is sick for that reason. This frees up the need for ArPen runes, and could allow DPS to go speed or Attack damage. Also, less of a need to purchase ArPen items as ArPen doesn't work once a champ is at 0 armor.

I was trying to think, what's the best item counter? Frozen heart? Stacking armor to defeat it doesn't make sense, it will just get ate up.

Some night if people would wanna try it, I'd be down.

EDIT: Taric is probably a must, his ult giving AD to all....


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Prospero on August 17, 2011, 01:08:31 PM
I've been on similar teams built around MR. It's pretty hilarious.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Amaron on August 17, 2011, 02:33:22 PM
Did they for sure fix  % Armor Reduction?  I know there was some complaining that maybe it wasn't fixed on Wukong.

Also don't forget Nidalee's Bushwack which is 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 %:  http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Nidalee#Bushwhack


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Rokal on August 17, 2011, 03:13:51 PM
Most of those are single-target armor debuffs. Trundles will only help you with one champion on their team every 60 seconds (or whatever the CD is). Seems like it could work, but it gives everyone on their team a free pass to stack only armor. I imagine you'd be able to burst 1-2 people down, but you'd have problems with the rest.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 17, 2011, 03:22:23 PM
Up until recently armour debuffs were bugged as fuck, and only took away from base armour. Meaning they only took away from the armour a champ started with. That went for percents too. As far as I know, they have fixed the problem on kayle, but have not received conformation of them fixing it on any other champion.

Aside from that, Team 1 sucks balls, team 3 ain't half bad, and team 2 has it going on.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 17, 2011, 03:24:03 PM
Most of these theory teams don't work... I think this has some promise...make sure there is a starks nearby and probably build Black cleaver on two different characters (thats's 65 armor reduction without any champ abilities).


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 17, 2011, 03:27:12 PM
You know what would be even more hilarious, use 4 of those champs and throw in a Tryndamere. I remember reading somewhere that the single largest hit you could theoretically do was a fully stacked Tryn critting on a reduced armour target.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 17, 2011, 03:32:39 PM
Maybe throw Karthus in just to throw em off a bit, and still synergizes. Make some teams guys...... :)


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Hoax on August 17, 2011, 03:39:15 PM
So you essentially want to stack all physical damage and get around people building armor by using armor reduction? The big advantage I can see if you do that would be denying the enemy team access to Banshee because its just not worth it if MR is worthless.

See what you can come up with keeping in mind your team build is going to make Banshee especially into a much less appealing purchase. Essentially though the most successful version of this would end up being just double AD carry instead of double AP carry plus J4/wk/Renekton top and Trundle in the jungle.

Its kind of a bad time to try to come up with theorycraft teams when they are hard at work to break the current en vogue team lineup by making all champs with healing worthless.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: DLRiley on August 17, 2011, 04:13:24 PM
I'd like to point out that if LoL had a smarter player base these "theory" threads would pop up all the time in the main form (which it doesn't). The game has such a potential to support so many playstyles and teambuilds, a potential that would be funny to balance, but the playerbase is dreadfully slow on the up take, even the "top" tier are bad at it.

Corki
Karthus
Renken
Rammus
Taric

GG.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 17, 2011, 09:05:29 PM
The other benefit of this is that items like Aegis and Starks are good for everyone on team, making it more worth the gold.

Starks is like two vampiric scepters and a dagger for each player, not to mention the health regen.

Hell, Rally might even be run in this setup.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: DLRiley on August 17, 2011, 09:42:48 PM
The other benefit of this is that items like Aegis and Starks are good for everyone on team, making it more worth the gold.

Starks is like two vampiric scepters and a dagger for each player, not to mention the health regen.

Hell, Rally might even be run in this setup.

If they buffed Rally yes, otherwise no.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 18, 2011, 12:28:35 PM
So, the first game I played after making this thread I got rolled by a similar Armor reduction team.

Karthus
Corki
Renekton
Wu-kong

Someone else I don;t remember. Renekton absolutely shredded us. I did notice our Cho with a Negatron cloak though. I tried to warn them.......


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 21, 2011, 06:35:26 PM
So , anyone wanna try this tonight? I had fun rolling with Hoax/Thrawn last night....I play about 11:00pm EST.

If not I'm down to just play reg teams...


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 22, 2011, 01:40:01 AM
Dammit, I'm kinda late for tonight, but I'm down for any other night around that time.

Add FrankWrench.



Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 24, 2011, 07:11:07 AM
Ok, so since we have had a solid 4-5 man crew the last few nights... post which one of these guys you can play. I'm going to roll with Rammus (sorry bad pun). I might learn one other guy for this....

Slayerik - Rammus
Frank - Renekton





Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: statisticalfool on August 24, 2011, 08:43:48 AM
I'd like to point out that if LoL had a smarter player base these "theory" threads would pop up all the time in the main form (which it doesn't). The game has such a potential to support so many playstyles and teambuilds, a potential that would be funny to balance, but the playerbase is dreadfully slow on the up take, even the "top" tier are bad at it.

Corki
Karthus
Renken
Rammus
Taric

GG.

It's because there's a laning phase. Who's your jungler? Renekton? So Rammus solo top? GG indeed.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: ezrast on August 24, 2011, 10:01:46 AM
Rammus jungle, Renek and Taric bottom.

I'd guess bans and counterpicks are the reason you don't see more stuff like this in pro play, though I don't know about typical ranked games.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 24, 2011, 11:19:04 AM
Ok, so since we have had a solid 4-5 man crew the last few nights... post which one of these guys you can play. I'm going to roll with Rammus (sorry bad pun). I might learn one other guy for this....

Slayerik - Rammus
Frank - Renekton
When do you guys ususally play ?

edit: I should have some time on my hands tomorow (thursday)


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 24, 2011, 02:59:37 PM
Well, I personally don't log on until 10:30 - 11:00pm EST  (4:00 GMT).. guessing that's a bad time in Germany (if I remember where you are from correctly).


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: DLRiley on August 24, 2011, 03:05:56 PM
I'd like to point out that if LoL had a smarter player base these "theory" threads would pop up all the time in the main form (which it doesn't). The game has such a potential to support so many playstyles and teambuilds, a potential that would be funny to balance, but the playerbase is dreadfully slow on the up take, even the "top" tier are bad at it.

Corki
Karthus
Renken
Rammus
Taric

GG.

It's because there's a laning phase. Who's your jungler? Renekton? So Rammus solo top? GG indeed.

1. Rammus can easily jungle or solo top against a team running its own junglar. In fact in works out too well, rammus barely needs creep kills to scale effectively, a rammus WITH creep kills and you have a rollling tower diving bomb.
2. Ren can solo top (or jungle), corki + taric is too good of a combination at bot
3. karthus mid gg.



Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 25, 2011, 05:45:08 AM
Well, I personally don't log on until 10:30 - 11:00pm EST  (4:00 GMT).. guessing that's a bad time in Germany (if I remember where you are from correctly).
I work nightshifts the next few weeks and its my day night off, so I might be online.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Vaiti on August 25, 2011, 06:35:48 AM
First game after a patch.

I'm playing Skarner with Renekton as my lanemate. We are against Taric and Cait. Renekton keeps trying to go after Cait, and getting stunned and subseqentially raped by the two of them, despite my best efforts keep them off him. He can't kill creeps because to gain life because Cait won't let him. He wanders off the lane and goes and starts fighting Golums at 1/4th life at level 2. Gets executed. Returns to lane, immediately dives Cait again. Same results. He barely gets out. I exhaust Cait after she flashes after him and start pounding on her to discourage a chase. Renekton gets out with a sliver of life.

He promptly tells me I'm a noob in teamchat.  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 25, 2011, 07:18:17 AM
He promptly tells me I'm a noob in teamchat.  :why_so_serious:
Patch done!

I just love the "community". Usually the first time someone annoys me, I announce that I am putting him on my ignore list and then /ignore him. Makes for a better game expirience.

There have been games where my whole team landed on my ignore list by the end. :D


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Ashamanchill on August 25, 2011, 07:21:25 AM
At least this patch made it easier to /ignore retards. Just open up the score panel and click one little button. Voila! That moron Renekton just went from being a pain is the ass, to helpfully silent. I /ignore on a hair trigger in games like the one you describe now.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Vaiti on August 25, 2011, 08:13:40 AM
Yep, that is my normal approach as well. I actually ALT+F4ed out of that game however.

Reason being all but one of the team was being bat shit retarded at that point and it was clear what the outcome was going to be. Decided not to waste any time and just went and made lunch instead.

Team consisted of Skarner (me) Gragas, Non-Jungle WW, Renekton and Twisted Fate. Twisted locked last, and picked Twisted clearly to fill mid, as we didn't seem to have a strong one at that point. We get in game and Gragas goes mid and annouces he only mids with Gragas. Proceeds to feed their Kat. WW gives first blood on a tower dive. Yeah...


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: statisticalfool on August 25, 2011, 10:35:45 AM
I'd like to point out that if LoL had a smarter player base these "theory" threads would pop up all the time in the main form (which it doesn't). The game has such a potential to support so many playstyles and teambuilds, a potential that would be funny to balance, but the playerbase is dreadfully slow on the up take, even the "top" tier are bad at it.

Corki
Karthus
Renken
Rammus
Taric

GG.

It's because there's a laning phase. Who's your jungler? Renekton? So Rammus solo top? GG indeed.

1. Rammus can easily jungle or solo top against a team running its own junglar. In fact in works out too well, rammus barely needs creep kills to scale effectively, a rammus WITH creep kills and you have a rollling tower diving bomb.
2. Ren can solo top (or jungle), corki + taric is too good of a combination at bot
3. karthus mid gg.



I did not expect rammus to be all jungly. consider me conditionally chastened.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 25, 2011, 11:10:20 AM
So... whom should I practice with once I get back from work ? :)


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 25, 2011, 11:21:13 AM
I'd say any of the initial list, but we will def need a solid Corki / Taric / Karthus



Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Chimpy on August 25, 2011, 05:01:45 PM
I play a pretty decent Taric, though I have not played him since the changes yet and have not played with any of you folks yet who may be another level above where I am at skill/ELO wise.

My summoner name is Skwrrel and I can play pretty much any time in the evenings at this point.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 25, 2011, 06:23:42 PM
Playing a few Nasus /Rene rounds to polish my lasthitting skills  :why_so_serious:


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 26, 2011, 06:57:07 AM
Sorry I seemed to miss ya each time Helm.

We had a fun night of 5 man pre-mades, with semi bad team comps that we brute forced to victory :)


Hoax is def very good at map awareness, a great guy to have on vent with ya. It is where I need to improve most. I have the chops, I just find myself watching the big screen a little too much.

So, I still do want to try this! I just never get the cojones to try it with our five man. Who is in tonight and who will you play? Please respond if you are in, responding here gets ya locked in for our 5 man tonight :)

Slayerik -  Rammus - Jungle
   - Will Run Aegis


Spot 2 - Karthus - Solo Mid


Hlem - Renekton - Solo Top
   - Black Cleaver
  

Spot 4 - Corki - Bot
   - Black Cleaver

Likely Sikkintair (RL friend) - Taric - Bot



Who runs Starks? It's a must for this comp.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 26, 2011, 01:26:25 PM
Count me in for Renekton. Gonna test how Black C./Starks plays on him.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 26, 2011, 01:29:46 PM
I don't think it needs to be rushed, but should be completed mid-game.

I'm thinking Stark's may not be best on him, as we want him to be a wrecking ball once the armor is down. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his damage too much, but maybe enough.

Few more people and we can give this a run tonight :)


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on August 26, 2011, 01:55:44 PM
Also, with this setup you can pretty much remove your Armor Pen Marks if you have AD ones or attack speed you might want to run instead (or even crit).

On rammus, my base build will be Randuins / Aegis / Merc Treads



Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on August 26, 2011, 02:41:48 PM
I don't think it needs to be rushed, but should be completed mid-game.

I'm thinking Stark's may not be best on him, as we want him to be a wrecking ball once the armor is down. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his damage too much, but maybe enough.

Few more people and we can give this a run tonight :)

Agreed. I prefer to tank up a bit before I start building damage items. (Mercs,Warmorgs,Spirit V.)


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: statisticalfool on August 28, 2011, 12:08:20 AM
I'm totally not skilled up on any of those characters, but I'd love to try it out sometime. I've played Karthus a little bit on what really to do with him other than farm farm farm, dot dot dot, ult.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Der Helm on September 10, 2011, 11:53:09 AM
Let me just use this thread to point out how awesome stacking armor Penetration in non-ranked games is. Masteries + runes + Brutalizer gives you around 50 Armorpenetration, enough to hit any champion for full damage that does not buy armor (aka everyone in non-ranked games) . And since even tanks prefer to stack health...

While using this on Caytli I started to wonder if abilities who scale of AD also work with ArPen ? It sure looked like it.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Typhon on September 10, 2011, 02:14:31 PM
If the ability says "physical damage" it works with ArPen.  If the ability says, "magical damage" is works with MPen.

(There are abilities that scale with AD that do magic damage, so you have actually have to look at the damage type to be sure)


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Amaron on September 10, 2011, 05:37:26 PM
It should be noted that it's the exact opposite for life steal / spell steal.   Life steal is for auto attacking and spell steal is for any type of ability.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on September 30, 2011, 11:29:40 AM
Hmmm, would changing this up a bit be viable for Dominion?


Draft:

Renekton
Urgot
Wukong
Tryn
Kogmaw


Blind:

Karthus
Renekton
Evelyn
Rammus
Jax

Watch Renekton Eat people.


Fast cleavers and starks oh my


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Mosesandstick on September 30, 2011, 11:35:42 AM
Not going to comment on the team without experience, but I've had some fun with Wu Kong in Dom, going Atmogs + Triforce. He's especially useful as a defender.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Chimpy on September 30, 2011, 12:07:59 PM
You never play blind pick anymore though, Slay!


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Slayerik on September 30, 2011, 01:25:24 PM
Cause blind pick in Dom is the same like 12 champs.


Title: Re: Armor Reduction Team?
Post by: Kirth on September 30, 2011, 03:44:55 PM
Cause blind pick in Dom is the same like 12 champs.

pretty much, I Qed for a draft mode dominion last night but it never fired.