f13.net

This is probably redundant for most of you, since you all troll the same blogs and boards I do, but given F13's history, there should be some mention of it somewhere.

Here's Lum's  (http://www.brokentoys.org/2007/05/01/try-being-an-internet-relations-manager-you-nutless-assmuncher/) link, also Amber Night's (http://ambernight.org/archives/2007/05/01/389).

Den this if I missed a posting of this already.

I don't troll these boards, so the info is appreciated.

Good luck and whatnot.

heheh Im sure shes got a job locked in already.....

She was always an awesome person to have as a point of contact for large guild leaders in DOAC. She had some awesome rants in EQ1 on that site (forget the URL)

Still, leaving Mythic when they are about to finally have their big break, leaving EA's money, leaving a purebred stallion by the name of Warhammer...

Now I am really curious about what kind of job she locked in....

For the fans. (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2013086562) (Second half of the video). Wogh!.

I can't view that here at work. What's it say?

Good for Sanya (the leaving EA's money thing). I'm sure she'll land on her feet. Bad for Mythic, though, as they are going to need a good PR person in their future. But who the fuck wants to work for EA?

Good luck Tweety!

The interview on Warcry (http://www.warcry.com/news/view/71275-Sanya-Thomas-Leaves-EA-Mythic-Exclusive-Exit-Interview) doesn't sound like she has anything locked in.

She says, "...penis shaped rock..." 

That's enough.

Really liked Lums post. (even if reads just a tad like an obituary!)

Sanya's professional though direct approach to forum posts, axing of the official boards, strongly encouraging email feedback, and running the regular grab bag system, is without doubt the best model anyone has built so far.

On the off chance that Sanya reads this thread, first off, good luck, and second, while you are between roles, any chance of an update here...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010302155003/tweety.bowlofmice.com/tweety/index.html

...?

Hey I just remembered Raph posted a Help Wanted CM position to his blog last week....

Eldeac: Thanks for refreshing my old memory nice catch

Tweety's blog was one of the things that drew me in to this whole world. Not sure whether to thank her or not... ;)

Best of luck to you Sanya (does she actually read us?), your honesty was always very refreshing in this industry.

Try working in the MMO industry,  you nutless assmunchers.   :cry:

Are you crazy? I would rather pound nails into my dick.

It's that preference that makes you an MMO player rather than an MMO employee.

Mythic's loss is someone's gain.  I am surprised that Mythic didn't realize her value enough to do whatever they needed to do to keep her, frankly.

I suspect she may have overreached. Some new company policy, to which she objected, they said 'too bad, its on', and she said 'fine, have it your way, g'bye!'. Could have been something as simple as a switch in retirement plans, but she can't talk about it without bringing down the legal hoo haa, and probably making her hubby's life hell.

Gah, will the roadtrips be worth going to without Sanya there now? I have fond memories of last year's San Diego roadtrip at Dave and Buster's and their Comic-Con booth. Was hoping for the same experience this year.

I wish her well, not that she'll have any problems, though.

Maybe it wasn't Mythic's call? Doesn't EA have some history of bringing "the corporate way" to the smaller companies it absorbs? Which involves some ejection of cells that don't think corporate thoughts from the body corporate.

That was my guess as well, that higher-up marketing directors/VPs in EA flexed muscle and she wasn't having any of it and it came to a head.  Always thought of her as the "anti-Abashi" which is about the highest praise I could think of for someone with that job.

Stupid question: 1) who is Amber Knight, 2) why should I care, 3) is she as self-absorbed as I think she is?

[edited for clarity - changed making to marketing and added "in EA"]

She's a female in some way connected with gaming.  Knowing literally nothing about her, odds are she is self-absorbed.  That's another thing that made Tweety so special, her writing didn't have that "EVERYONE IN VIDEOGAMELAND WANTS TO HAVE SEX WITH ME CAUSE THEIR DESPERATE VIRGIN GAMERS" vibe. 

It felt more to me like she was shown the door. I do know that there was an advisory the day before it happened that shit may be hitting the fan at one of the nnetwork forum sites.

Wow, yea, I just got that same impression reading it for the first time. It reads like someone going off to spend time with her family, or to a sanitarium or something. Probably not his intent, more laced with emotion because of his long-ish history working with her.

In any case, I don't get how this thread went from well-wishes to some conspiracy about her rubbing EA the wrong way. Sure that COULD have happened, but is there some foundation to this speculation, something said somewhere that implied a split with EA?

I was curious too when I saw her name mentioned and blog linked on numerous  dev blogs and mmo sites.  Here's what I found on Google:


http://blogher.org/node/7851

She drops a few hints; anyone hazard a guess what game she is working on and with whom?

SOE.
Their secret "secret" project.

Well hopefully it does not involve the killing and mutilation of goats in the name of PR and marketing...

Yeah WTFG Sony:
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Slaughter_Horror_at_Sony_s_depraved_promotion_stunt_with_decapitated_goat

So self-absorbed, I spend my day refreshing F13 waiting for my name to come up.  So thanks for that.  :wink:

Who quits before lining up another job? She was definitely fired. We'll find out why eventually, but it won't be soon.

Anyway, good luck Tweety.

In my view, as a customer, Sanya was doing an outstanding job. She says she wants to stay in the town where Mythic is headquartered, so why should she leave? Couple that with the cynical observation that doing an outstanding job (for the customer) is often a bad career move in a giant corporation like EA. Leads to the "rubbing EA the wrong way" hypothosis.

I noticed Mark Jacobs was logged as reading the thread when I was reading it earlier. Not surprisingly, he doesn't seem to want to comment..

Probably not any more self-absorbed as anyone else (certainly not as self-absorbed as me).  I'm curious, though, as to why she strikes you this way.  Because she's a chick with her pic on her blog?  I've run across links to her blog before, probably from Lum and/or Raph's site, maybe other sites as well.  She's never struck me as a bimbo, high maintenance or "hey look at me, I'm a chick irl!"

Sometimes it seems like women just can't win - people either slag 'em because their looks aren't up to standard or call them self-absorbed if they are.  Seriously, there's an impossible standard for women for some reason.

What's your problem with her?

She seems exactly as self-absorbed as anyone else who has a blog.


I believe the phrase that best illustrates the latter is:

For every hot chick there is a guy who is sick of putting up with her shit.

Er.  I've done this before.  My wife has also.

When you are attached to someone who also works, it's a lot easier to walk away.

SirBruce... to the rescue!!!


Her article on Sanya contained no more information then I got from the Lum + Warcry interview (actually, it contained quite a bit less, but let's be generouis).  She must know about Lum and his blog, she should have read his entry (he may not have posted yet?).  She obviously read the Warcry interview. I concluded that she just likes to hear herself talk.  but!...


I have no problem.  In fact, that she reads and posts on f13 raises my opinion of her.  And let's be clear - my opinion is important to me and... well, that's about it.

My thougth process went like this: Someone (Engels, long time poster, not a wacko) linked to her on f13.  f13 has a large number of regulars who have little tolerance for self-absorbtion.  Confusion!  It occurred to me that my snap judgement might be wrong and that she might have interesting things to say so I came here and posted the question.  Honestly, I was hoping for a "she's cool, cut her some slack".


I think you personally (and women, blacks, special interest group X, etc) can start to "win" if you never, ever are the first one to bring sex (or race, or special interest concern X) into a conversation that isn't about special interest concern X.  Simply asking, "why can't women win" shows a bias in your thinking.  It shows that you think your pain and struggles are more important then everyone else's.  I honestly think that if people would spend more time just doing whatever it is they want to do, and less time thinking about how they never get respect the whole issue would just go away.

Apologies to Sanya for being a (big?) part in derailing this thread.  I played DAOC and and while I played I read you Grab Bag every Friday night.  I think you did an awesome job.  My total experience with DAOC was much better the EQ.  Thinking back, I'd have to say that you were a big part of that (thus the anti-abashi comment, which was meant as high praise, but I don't think that came through).  Thanks and good luck with whatever is next for you.

Obviously, if some female puts a picture of herself on teh interweb it makes her one of Satan's Whores.

Indeed.  Coming around here and flaunting her dirty pillows for the world to see...

Wait, this isn't the Fundamentalist thread ?

Where am I ?

Personally, Sanya's rants never made a good impression on me.  They were angry enough, sure.  They also seemed to always have holes the size of semi tractors in them.

As community relations for DAoC though I thought she was exceptional.

I now understand what your bia^H^H^H issues are.

Pot, meet kettle.

Speaking of self-absorbed, if you wanted to find out what she's about, you could simply read her blog instead of asking other people who she is and why you should care.

This is so high school.

I might be wrong, but I don't think they were intended as academic essays on the philosophical truths of this universe.

I get the impression they were meant to be funny. But what do I know?




Me for one. And possibly Sanya for another.



I'm just enjoying the irony that in a community manager well-wishing thread for Sanya we have a whole bunch of this crap.

I suspect if she reads this, she will at least now get a chuckle out of it.

The above statement is ironic.

Jesus Christ, people! I linked Amber Night's site simply as another MMO blog, this time written by one of the few females that expostulate, self-absorbed or not, on MMO stuff. The subject in question is about one of the few women in the industry who made good and earned our collective respect, so its not exactly flaunting pornographic feelings towards Amber Night that her blog got a link.

She's not Tweety. She could never be Tweety, short of a time machine, murder and identity theft. Its like some of you only want one Queen of MMO Snarkiness, and Sanya is it.

She is, however, the only blogging female voice on the subject of MMOs that I know about. If Signe had a blog where she regularly posts on the matter of MMOs, and she'd written a piece on Sanya, I'd have linked that. Noone would question that, because she's considered an f13 'insider'.

I swear to god, sometimes f13ers are more insular than a goat herding village in the Hindu Kush.

On behalf of my fellow Spanish Hapsburgs, I resent that, and drool on myself.

First post, about yourself, on a thread about Sanya (someone else) just because your name came up?

Congratulations. You just lost the thread for Serek Dmart-ing.

I kid, I kid (mostly). Welcome to te mosh pit.

I agree brother/uncle.

I don't care what all of you think, she had kittens on her blog.

Eh, one guy who rarely posts outside of the CoX forum made a dumb comment and some people ran with it.  At least VDL didn't come in here to thrown down with the new omg-female-irl after Amber posted. 

As for Sanya, best of luck where ever she goes.  She did a lot of good work with the Herald, but in listening to her at AGC, I wasn't sold on some of her other methods of community management.  In relation to Warhammer, it seemed like she was just sheltering the license from the unwashed masses.  It was a very distant approach to community and was in sharp contrast to other CM's (Cal in particular) more hand-on methods for interacting with their communities.   

Edit: Insular comment rings true for me, though.  I don't hardly read any other gaming news sites or blogs.  My forays into the world outside this one only occur when someone says something that confuses me.

I'm not sure those two statements are compatible. Even our lurkers are wacko. Well adjusted people run screaming from their web browsers within a few minutes exposure to f13.


That's an impossible suggestion. Typically its the case that when a member of a dominant demographic (white, male, Christian) group does something, they are personally judged for it. When a member of a demographic group that does not enjoy dominance does something, the collective group is judged. Women drivers, black urban violence, Muslim terrorists, etc. As demonstrated by the wonders of threading, the lass known as Triforcer was the first to suggest that she was likely to be self-absorbed simply because of her gender, so its a trifle misplaced for you to make comments in response to Xanthippe's comment.

I liked Tweety rants and I wish her the best wherever she builds her nest next (next nest?)

Ditto here.  It's the curse of having a whole lot to read, and not a lot of time to do it.  Tends to keep me going to one or two sites these days (in total) where I used to visit 3 or more for multiple different topics. 

You just called Triforcer a woman.  You did, didn't you?

Domestic Spat!!!!!!

You realize your whole post is mostly bullshit right? Try these words on for size: white racist or male chauvinist? Well, I'll be damned. It sure looks like a collective group is being judged there doesn't it?

So, throw that in with Women driver, black urban violence, and Muslim terrorists. Just because one group is a majority does not mean that that group does not get judged. In fact, in the last few decades, that group (white males in this case) have to tread carefully because everything they do is judged simply because they are (for the moment) the majority and they are expected to pay for the sins of their distant ancestors.

So please, stop with this posturing bullshit.

Some ranters I like, their arguments are concise and their train of thought is obvious and their conclusion seems valid.  Others I don't.  I think I am allowed to make up my own mind about who goes into what catagory?

Signe has a blog?  can I get a link?  I love her writing style!

You left off the "If" that started that sentence.

WHO WHAT?

So, like, i wake up at midday, and i'm sitting here drinking coffee, reading this thread.

I know how to play this!


Outside my window the sun dims, as if clouds are blocking it.  The room becomes darker and darker, quickly, until it's dusk-like.  My eyes seem to be unfocused... the computer screen is a blur.   I suddenly realize that the people in the thread I'm reading have come alive and are pushing their way through my computer screen!  Schild, Trippy, Sky, Xanthippe, Stray, Triforcer, Big Gulp, even Ironwood!  All of them.  Each one exits with a squishy plop, reminding me of a verbal diarrhea .  Red eyes glowing, tongues as sharp as razors, cynicism dripping from crater sized pores.  The smell... God help me... the smell.

I HAVE JUST ACCIDENTALLY FOUND THE SEKRET PHOENIX GET-TOGETHER!

Someone else's turn now.

Thats the kind of creative writing that gets you booted from the Marines, missy!  :evil:

You're right. It's such a burden us white men have to bear.

Here's a lengthy post about the departure from MBJ (http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=303625#303625). Doesn't really shed any more light on the details.

I respect their privacy in this, but like anything Internet based, it's hard not to talk about it. Maybe it's just cathartic. I prefer to consider it supportive :)

This one sentence I think sums up the root cause of the parting of ways:

Yes it is. Any little thing you say or do is second guessed and judged. And well-meaning people like you only make it worse when you jump in with the evil white man stereotypes.

That Righ.  He's so well-meaning.

She has a sponge for an avatar. So if not self-absorbed she is apparently absorbant.

/cymbal crash

You made me Groan Out Loud.

Yup. That was terribad.

Goodness, reading that makes me believe the guy really can't stand Sanya at the mo.  It's got 'Ungrateful, useless bitch of a mistake' written all over it.

Or maybe I'm analysing too much.

Both posts are really weird wording.


But tbh, I'm not sure you can really read much into it.

If Sanya really was pushed, then I would expect Mark to be even more guarded and careful to thank and praise Sanya than he actually was.

You'd expect this post at the very least to say...


That's just how you do these things even when you need to suggest that someone pursues other opportunities. This almost seems like begging 'teh community' to go nuts by saying he's not going to reveal any more, I mean, for one thing it implies there is more to say. Weird.

So anyway, this is the mmog industry, I vote cockup > conspiracy.

This thread is filled with much hilarious over-analyzing.

The only thing I wish we could find out is if Sanya intends to stay within the industry and take on another community related job somewhere else.

Man, this thread went to hell in record time.

Postcount++

Nonsense. It made it to nearly half a page of  harmless wibble before finally getting sucked into the F13 black hole. I've seen several threads where the first reply is off topic, and everything beyond that is flame bait. But this is 'below average'. Probably even a D minus.

I just clicked on this thread to find out why it got to three pages, I still don't understand.

See, there's this girl, and she's actually on the INTERNET.  She likes games 'n stuff.  And she... no, nevermind.  It doesn't matter what she did.  She did something, and she's on the INTERNET.  And she likes games.

I hear World of Porncraft is looking for a community rep.

To be fair, at this point the majority of the thread is meta-posts about the sillyness of the thread, like Miasma's post, and, well, this one too.

Yay for us fitting in another pointless mmog community staple.

Oi! Who droobelled their narcisicism all over this lovely little thread? eh?

Can't let you bastards out anywhere.

That is quite enough of that type of post.   I'm totally serial.

It's a good thing there is no FTC for messageboards, or f13'd be the CSX of the Internet.
/rerail

I read through all his replies in that thread, up to where he says he's not going to post anymore... and you definitely get the 'there is way more going on than anyone outside of Mythic will ever know' vibe.  Mark sounds more like he's sad/pissed at the situation than mad at Sanya.  The hush-hush stuff is, naturally, bringing out the curiosity in everyone.  "We could say more, but both parties don't want to talk about it' just screams office drama to me... if they don't want to talk about it, then there was something to talk about.  For some reason I keep thinking 'there's a lawsuit settlement in this somewhere', which is probably just the lasers talking through my tinfoil hat.

Sanya had her ups and downs as CM for Mythic, but certainly did a heck of a lot better than most who've been lead CMs.  Hopefully she can find somewhere else to do her thing quickly.

<overanalysis>As to the odd word patterns, he certainly brings up the 'policies and procedures we've had at Mythic since the very beginning' too often.  And then in his last couple posts, he goes off on tangents about GW's feelings about how WAR is doing, and then Mythic's feelings about RMT.  Like he's trying to derail the thread by sparking conversation about topics he'd rather talk about.</overanalysis>

--
Alkiera

The invisible moon monkeys from the eleventh dimension told me that if I print out Mark Jacob's post and view it through a virgin's tear on a full moon, we'll find out we should wish Sanya well and stfu about the rest. 

I think that's the only way you WOULD see that.

I can't find a single sentence that geniunely thanks, recognises or misses.

For some reason, I feel compelled to point out that this is the games industry. There's less stability in this industry than there is political stability in the worst parts of Africa. If this industry gets a universal logo, it's going to be ouroboros.

You've got to admit, his second post doesn't do a very good job of making this go away.  All he had to do was to get a creative writer at Mythic to post a syrupy "look at what she's done, we gonna miss her!" post and this would have gone away.  Hell, even I could have done that - just read Lum's post and paraphrase.

Indeed.

Having seen the inner workings of a great many corporate firings and 'We Wish Them Well' which literally translates to geek-speak as 'Die In A Car Fire' I'm extra sensitive to the language in press releases.

Well, as Mr. McQuaid routinely shows us, professionalism in public communications hasn't quite hit that hallmark moment within the game industry, with the possible exception of NC Soft and Blizzard. I only mention those because there have been no screaming fuck ups yet.

Edited: idiocy

Well, Engels, you have to talk to the public to have to worry about fucking up. And NCSoft and Blizzard keep their mouth shut most of the time. NCSoft learned some harsh lessons from what they pimped Auto Assault as...

Sanya has resurfaced with a new blog (http://eatingbees.brokentoys.org/).

Cool. I know she said she was lookin to work again, but I wonder how hard that's going to be if she's not willing to move.

Funnily enough, I've been planning that as my next tattoo.

Yep, not too many MMOs sourced out of virginia.

Her blog has been up for a couple of days, lum is hosting it. It actually made the front page of slashdot yesterday, so she's starting off with a bang.

I hope all you people get jobs.  I'm tired of everyone in the gaming industry living off my husbands taxes.  Damn lay-abouts.  That's MY job, you wankers.

ORIGIN "WE USE TO CREATE WORLDS"

and if WAR launches, and looks the way it does in those vids that are making rounds...

"We are closing all WAR services. We will be shifting the WAR team to work on UO and SIMS Online" ...

/humps dead thread and continues stalking The Grunk

Doomcasted by Grunk.  That's one of the best signs for WAR I have seen so far.

Welll i really dont see what all the hype is for? Another Diku-rooted mmo with RvR? Another fantasy based game... another class based game... another "HEY D00D CLICK THE GUY WITH THE GOLD DOT". I guess i cant help myself, but the vids I have seen, the game looks like complete ass. The animations are just cut and pasted from old games...

You think the FFXI grind is acceptable and the bestest thing ever. Oh and you post from rehab where they are likely still trying to pry your finger out of your nose. Shut the fuck up, Donnie, you're out of your element.

Wait, this is a WAR thread now?  I thought we had one of those?

You have failed to grok the grunk.

Having said that, I hereby move that we relegate grunk to the dustbin of internet troll history, as it were.
Disappearing for a few days, and then necro-posting with an off-topic post, shows a lack of imagination.
Before, it wasn't clear whether he was truly touched, or just an attention whore. Now we know it's the latter.

You're just upset that Gronk doesn't want to have your babies.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a Gronk.

I am pretty sure it is...It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

That one sure sailed right over huh? :)

Wasn't quite clever enough.